I know CDPR worked hard on detailing the world and making a great story and side stories.
But the gameplay doesn't stand out in any way.
I was a hardcore CDPR fan from witcher 2 days, and was also super hyped for CP77, but after hearing and seeing the recent updates, I feel disappointed more than anything.
I'll base my observations on the statements made by CDPR.
- Let's start with unarmed combat,
This comparison video of the unarmed combat system shows my concern pretty blatantly
The unarmed combat system of Cyberpunk feels so dull after seeing something like Mirror's Edge, it'd would make anyone want much more from the game.
Even the flaws are so clearly explained in the description of the same video. Seeing the exact same fist fighting mini game from witcher 3 definitely gets boring, like seriously, why does no one make kick animations in FPP games more often? This Cyberpunk fight club arenas seem the best place for seeing cool unarmed combat moves. CDPR even clearly said underground "martial arts" tournaments.
Atleast, Finishers should be at this level (the video below).
Since the same mechanic is being carried from the witcher 3 to cyberpunk, it already feels boring without even playing the actual game. Ubisoft has been suffering from this exact same thing since AC2. Even the way the enemies attack and get knocked out feels literally the same way as witcher 3 did.
These fight tournaments are the perfect place to try out interesting bosses with unique moves, first time I played these I thought it'd feel like every opponent was a boss from darksouls or sekiro, but it turned out to be "the same enemy but with a different appearance".
- Driving,
When I heard CDPR was making "the most immersive game" in FPP with cars, I though its about time i see animations like this
Just imagine if we were able to see down while driving and see these downshift animations, It would literally be the coolest thing to see in any game with driving. This on its own would have increased immersion so much. Small yet amazing details like this would give us a huge incentive to keep playing in FPP.
I guess they diverted resources in making good car exterior animations and gave us the option to switch to TPP. But this is primarily a FPP game and having animations like this, has way greater effect on immersion than driving in TPP could have.
But no, instead I see the same FPP driving gameplay that even PUBG got right, Atleast GTA5 gave us the freedom to flip off people.
The best drift mechanic is in Saints Row: The Third, its very simple and extremely fun but gives scope to improve at the same time. Every other game fails miserably at having a drift mechanic, either they try something too complex or nothing at all. So I'm leaving drift out of this subject.
- Headshots don't matter
Headshots are the highest level of satisfaction a FPS game could give you (earlier you would say CP77 is a RPG not a FPS, but seems CDPR themselves dont call CP77 a RPG anymore)
Having bullet sponges for enemies and giving maybe a 20%ish bonus damage to shots to the head, feels boring, I already know that I would just stop trying to improve my aim as i know the reward for the effort is so low. (the guy who played the 2018 E3 footage was a ex-professional CSGO player, and if even he didn't go for headshots during the maelstorm bossfight. why would i?)
An apt example that I experienced recently was while playing State of Decay 2, the feral zombies have 20x the hp of a normal zombie and they are extremely agile and fast (they even dodge alot), because of this, they pose a significant threat to the player. Still, they WILL die in a single headshot. And headshoting a fast moving deadly zombie gives the player so much satisfaction. Headshots apply to humans too in State of Decay. Anyone would feel cool and badass when we defeat a feral zombie before it even gets close or kill a hostile gang of survivors before they even start shooting. Isn't feeling cool and badass a significant factor to why we play games?
I know they can't let us 1 shot bosses, that's understandable. But I didn't see any enemy getting headshot and dying in any of the gameplay footage except for scripted sequence as in the braindance footage from night wire episode 1.
- Removal of Vehicle customization
GTA, Saints row and pretty much any of these type of games have vehicle customization, I have no idea for what this got removed, or didn't even exist. The possible reasons i could think of are (a.) they didnt have time to creatively make many designs or (b.) they want special vehicles to feel more unique. Like finding a good weapon in dark souls. I hope the Aerondight vehicle does feel special in CP77.
- Removal of trains
This one was a complete surprise, considering their posters and trailers showed trains being ride-able.
Even watch dogs had this, come-on !!
- Censoring and Watering down adult themes
Comparing the rescue mission, of the corpo girl from the maelstorm hideout, scene. It seems like CDPR has watered down the scene by making the women have a less "dreadful look" (as shown in 2018 version), with her eyeshadow melting/washing away indicating pain and tears. The 2020 version looks like she almost has a "pleasant" and "plain" look to her textures.
And indirectly censoring the scene by making the place way darker to make the nudity harder to see. This is truly concerning, I really hope this not reflect on other similar scenes in the game. Showing the world the way it is without this kind of emotional suppression is what CDPR is known for and is the reason why I became a fan after playing the Wticher 2.
Valid and reasonable conclusions arrived later on this thread were that, (a.) all textures of the game were redone and improved, and CDPR hasn't yet revisited her particular textures to give her the "dread look". or (b.) the watering down was to comply with the censorship laws of certain countries, thus the waterdowned/censored version would only exist for those countries. Or there could an option in the game's settings regarding these type of features.
But if the actuality isn't one of the reasons mentioned above, then that is indeed troublesome.
(I'm only talking about the "appearance" and depiction being watered down and censored. In no way am i insisting that the "narrative" of the scene was watered down.)
- Boring boss fights
Shooting continuously at a target while dodging, isnt what I'd imagine a interesting bossfight to look like. The entire "shoot the weak point" thing feels out dated AF, atleast we could have been made to go near the boss and perform some cool animation like punching, ripping wire, disconnecting parts etc, rather than just left click and boom, its done. CDPR's bosses were never great, Eredin was way too easy and Dettlaff was bullshit, both are the wrong ways of making a bossfight. I didn't expect much but after playing Sekiro, I'd want to see something more.
- Removal of Wall-running
CDPR said on multiple occasions that we could play as a "cyber ninja" with katanas, mantis blades and scaling walls, guess this has been removed too......
is the Mantis blade's wallclimbing the same as wallrunning? i don't know.
- Weak katana animations
The katana animations looked unoriginal and felt similar to Skyrim's sword animation or pretty much the same as any typical FPS game meele weapon animation. Generic FPS sword animations are not immersive in any way. Considering CDPR emphasize immersion more than anything as the core aspect of Cyberpunk 2077, these animations directly contradict that. Player character immersion is greater than world immersion.
To give a more specific example (so as to not sound vague), it would have been absolutely amazing and cool if we had, the katana drawn out but in a relaxed arm position, where we would have to tilt the camera down to see our character holding the katana, in full field of view setting, that view would look cool and immersive AF. And when blocking, rather than holding the katana in a guard position (which makes no sense anyway, cause enemies could shoot anywhere at the rest of our body, and even if bullets do hit the blade, logically it would only make the blade lose its strength and sharpness.), the player character could block with is off-hand, implying the other side of the off-hand is metal. And if the player is made to swing the katana single handed, the scabbard could be held by our off-hand, So when blocking, the scabbard comes into view (When i imagine futuristic katana, first thing that comes to mind are scabbards with stickers all over them, neon lit comes later.). So now we could get the option to customize the scabbard, and it makes every katana unique just like that, as we'd get to see unique scabbards.
From a mechanic standpoint (still just an example), katana could have been primarily a single handed weapon with the scabbard held by the off-hand. In combination with a option to switch into a two handed grip, for more damage and cut impact. The single handed mode would give us freedom to move faster and block bullets more effective with offlanded scabbard. And the two handed grip mode would give more damage but less mobility and less bullet block effeciency, but blocking meele attacks with double handed grip could be highly effective. All these are solely player based mechanics, so enemy AI behavior need not even be touched. But just by having this, the katana gameplay would look extremely immersive and worth mastering and playing with, the entire game. A worthy combat alternative as it should be.
(I'm not trying to sound like a dick by expecting the game to have my exact view of katana gameplay, i came up with is entire example literally on the spot just for the purpose of giving an example.)
Summarizing,
It seems Cyberpunk is turning out to be a "play relaxed on your couch"-type game rather than a "be at the edge of your seat"-type game, the concern is, however good the story is, it gets boring after you see it once. Breaking Bad is known as one of the greatest TV shows,I fully agree. But watching it again is one of the most boring things I've done. GTA 5 was the most fun game I've played, but I've never played it twice.
Concentrating soley on story isnt the best thing for a game. Dark souls, State of decay 2, Monster Hunter World, Sekiro, Saints Row etc, they might not have the best straight forward story, but their gameplay makes me keep playing them again and again.
The improvment between witcher 1 to witcher 2, and witcher 2 to witcher 3, was so huge. I hope that kind of improvement leap happens with Cyberpunk too, I dont see it yet.
They consistently showed great developmental leaps in every big title they launched. Thus, when they stated that their developmental objectives for Cyberpunk 2077 was for it to be "better than witcher 3 in every way possible" and that it would be "the most immersive game". i didn't think they were lying or were aiming beyond their capabilities.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
One heartwarming thing to consider is, after seeing the 2018 E3 and deepdive, i had more than double the amount of concerns. But after the Night City Wire showcase and The Gig trailer, i was extremely happy, because more than half of the things i felt as drawbacks, were improved and made good.
So in the same way, I do feel confident that a lot more of the concerns i feel now will be totally removed by the/at the time of the game's launch.
Also, i've kept the main post as short as possible, so as to not make it overwhelmingly long. So be sure to check the comments and discussions below for more details and explanations.
But the gameplay doesn't stand out in any way.
I was a hardcore CDPR fan from witcher 2 days, and was also super hyped for CP77, but after hearing and seeing the recent updates, I feel disappointed more than anything.
I'll base my observations on the statements made by CDPR.
- Let's start with unarmed combat,
This comparison video of the unarmed combat system shows my concern pretty blatantly
The unarmed combat system of Cyberpunk feels so dull after seeing something like Mirror's Edge, it'd would make anyone want much more from the game.
Even the flaws are so clearly explained in the description of the same video. Seeing the exact same fist fighting mini game from witcher 3 definitely gets boring, like seriously, why does no one make kick animations in FPP games more often? This Cyberpunk fight club arenas seem the best place for seeing cool unarmed combat moves. CDPR even clearly said underground "martial arts" tournaments.
Atleast, Finishers should be at this level (the video below).
Since the same mechanic is being carried from the witcher 3 to cyberpunk, it already feels boring without even playing the actual game. Ubisoft has been suffering from this exact same thing since AC2. Even the way the enemies attack and get knocked out feels literally the same way as witcher 3 did.
These fight tournaments are the perfect place to try out interesting bosses with unique moves, first time I played these I thought it'd feel like every opponent was a boss from darksouls or sekiro, but it turned out to be "the same enemy but with a different appearance".
- Driving,
When I heard CDPR was making "the most immersive game" in FPP with cars, I though its about time i see animations like this
Just imagine if we were able to see down while driving and see these downshift animations, It would literally be the coolest thing to see in any game with driving. This on its own would have increased immersion so much. Small yet amazing details like this would give us a huge incentive to keep playing in FPP.
I guess they diverted resources in making good car exterior animations and gave us the option to switch to TPP. But this is primarily a FPP game and having animations like this, has way greater effect on immersion than driving in TPP could have.
But no, instead I see the same FPP driving gameplay that even PUBG got right, Atleast GTA5 gave us the freedom to flip off people.
The best drift mechanic is in Saints Row: The Third, its very simple and extremely fun but gives scope to improve at the same time. Every other game fails miserably at having a drift mechanic, either they try something too complex or nothing at all. So I'm leaving drift out of this subject.
- Headshots don't matter
Headshots are the highest level of satisfaction a FPS game could give you (earlier you would say CP77 is a RPG not a FPS, but seems CDPR themselves dont call CP77 a RPG anymore)
Having bullet sponges for enemies and giving maybe a 20%ish bonus damage to shots to the head, feels boring, I already know that I would just stop trying to improve my aim as i know the reward for the effort is so low. (the guy who played the 2018 E3 footage was a ex-professional CSGO player, and if even he didn't go for headshots during the maelstorm bossfight. why would i?)
An apt example that I experienced recently was while playing State of Decay 2, the feral zombies have 20x the hp of a normal zombie and they are extremely agile and fast (they even dodge alot), because of this, they pose a significant threat to the player. Still, they WILL die in a single headshot. And headshoting a fast moving deadly zombie gives the player so much satisfaction. Headshots apply to humans too in State of Decay. Anyone would feel cool and badass when we defeat a feral zombie before it even gets close or kill a hostile gang of survivors before they even start shooting. Isn't feeling cool and badass a significant factor to why we play games?
I know they can't let us 1 shot bosses, that's understandable. But I didn't see any enemy getting headshot and dying in any of the gameplay footage except for scripted sequence as in the braindance footage from night wire episode 1.
- Removal of Vehicle customization
GTA, Saints row and pretty much any of these type of games have vehicle customization, I have no idea for what this got removed, or didn't even exist. The possible reasons i could think of are (a.) they didnt have time to creatively make many designs or (b.) they want special vehicles to feel more unique. Like finding a good weapon in dark souls. I hope the Aerondight vehicle does feel special in CP77.
- Removal of trains
This one was a complete surprise, considering their posters and trailers showed trains being ride-able.
Even watch dogs had this, come-on !!
- Censoring and Watering down adult themes
Comparing the rescue mission, of the corpo girl from the maelstorm hideout, scene. It seems like CDPR has watered down the scene by making the women have a less "dreadful look" (as shown in 2018 version), with her eyeshadow melting/washing away indicating pain and tears. The 2020 version looks like she almost has a "pleasant" and "plain" look to her textures.
And indirectly censoring the scene by making the place way darker to make the nudity harder to see. This is truly concerning, I really hope this not reflect on other similar scenes in the game. Showing the world the way it is without this kind of emotional suppression is what CDPR is known for and is the reason why I became a fan after playing the Wticher 2.
Valid and reasonable conclusions arrived later on this thread were that, (a.) all textures of the game were redone and improved, and CDPR hasn't yet revisited her particular textures to give her the "dread look". or (b.) the watering down was to comply with the censorship laws of certain countries, thus the waterdowned/censored version would only exist for those countries. Or there could an option in the game's settings regarding these type of features.
But if the actuality isn't one of the reasons mentioned above, then that is indeed troublesome.
(I'm only talking about the "appearance" and depiction being watered down and censored. In no way am i insisting that the "narrative" of the scene was watered down.)
- Boring boss fights
Shooting continuously at a target while dodging, isnt what I'd imagine a interesting bossfight to look like. The entire "shoot the weak point" thing feels out dated AF, atleast we could have been made to go near the boss and perform some cool animation like punching, ripping wire, disconnecting parts etc, rather than just left click and boom, its done. CDPR's bosses were never great, Eredin was way too easy and Dettlaff was bullshit, both are the wrong ways of making a bossfight. I didn't expect much but after playing Sekiro, I'd want to see something more.
- Removal of Wall-running
CDPR said on multiple occasions that we could play as a "cyber ninja" with katanas, mantis blades and scaling walls, guess this has been removed too......
is the Mantis blade's wallclimbing the same as wallrunning? i don't know.
- Weak katana animations
The katana animations looked unoriginal and felt similar to Skyrim's sword animation or pretty much the same as any typical FPS game meele weapon animation. Generic FPS sword animations are not immersive in any way. Considering CDPR emphasize immersion more than anything as the core aspect of Cyberpunk 2077, these animations directly contradict that. Player character immersion is greater than world immersion.
To give a more specific example (so as to not sound vague), it would have been absolutely amazing and cool if we had, the katana drawn out but in a relaxed arm position, where we would have to tilt the camera down to see our character holding the katana, in full field of view setting, that view would look cool and immersive AF. And when blocking, rather than holding the katana in a guard position (which makes no sense anyway, cause enemies could shoot anywhere at the rest of our body, and even if bullets do hit the blade, logically it would only make the blade lose its strength and sharpness.), the player character could block with is off-hand, implying the other side of the off-hand is metal. And if the player is made to swing the katana single handed, the scabbard could be held by our off-hand, So when blocking, the scabbard comes into view (When i imagine futuristic katana, first thing that comes to mind are scabbards with stickers all over them, neon lit comes later.). So now we could get the option to customize the scabbard, and it makes every katana unique just like that, as we'd get to see unique scabbards.
From a mechanic standpoint (still just an example), katana could have been primarily a single handed weapon with the scabbard held by the off-hand. In combination with a option to switch into a two handed grip, for more damage and cut impact. The single handed mode would give us freedom to move faster and block bullets more effective with offlanded scabbard. And the two handed grip mode would give more damage but less mobility and less bullet block effeciency, but blocking meele attacks with double handed grip could be highly effective. All these are solely player based mechanics, so enemy AI behavior need not even be touched. But just by having this, the katana gameplay would look extremely immersive and worth mastering and playing with, the entire game. A worthy combat alternative as it should be.
(I'm not trying to sound like a dick by expecting the game to have my exact view of katana gameplay, i came up with is entire example literally on the spot just for the purpose of giving an example.)
Summarizing,
It seems Cyberpunk is turning out to be a "play relaxed on your couch"-type game rather than a "be at the edge of your seat"-type game, the concern is, however good the story is, it gets boring after you see it once. Breaking Bad is known as one of the greatest TV shows,I fully agree. But watching it again is one of the most boring things I've done. GTA 5 was the most fun game I've played, but I've never played it twice.
Concentrating soley on story isnt the best thing for a game. Dark souls, State of decay 2, Monster Hunter World, Sekiro, Saints Row etc, they might not have the best straight forward story, but their gameplay makes me keep playing them again and again.
The improvment between witcher 1 to witcher 2, and witcher 2 to witcher 3, was so huge. I hope that kind of improvement leap happens with Cyberpunk too, I dont see it yet.
They consistently showed great developmental leaps in every big title they launched. Thus, when they stated that their developmental objectives for Cyberpunk 2077 was for it to be "better than witcher 3 in every way possible" and that it would be "the most immersive game". i didn't think they were lying or were aiming beyond their capabilities.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
One heartwarming thing to consider is, after seeing the 2018 E3 and deepdive, i had more than double the amount of concerns. But after the Night City Wire showcase and The Gig trailer, i was extremely happy, because more than half of the things i felt as drawbacks, were improved and made good.
So in the same way, I do feel confident that a lot more of the concerns i feel now will be totally removed by the/at the time of the game's launch.
Also, i've kept the main post as short as possible, so as to not make it overwhelmingly long. So be sure to check the comments and discussions below for more details and explanations.
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