Scenarios and Artifact removal.

[Alexander_Volgin]

Proposed balance change; Remove artifact removal and rebalance scenarios to reflect their true value.

Reasoning; Running artifact removal doesen't improve your chances of winning in the current meta. You might stand in a better position against NG, but there is a tradeoff, where you get slaughtered by other factions which don't run it. Besides, it has become easier to identify people that play artifact removal, given the inclusion of other neutral cards, therefore easier to play around for experienced players.

Yay or Nay.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

 

[Draconifors]

GWENT threads don't belong in Community. Moved.

 

[Pacifixer]

I think better way to deal with this issue would be to put artefact removal on some high value faction cards as an alternative ability.
Wild Boar: Melee-Deploy: Damage, Ranged-Deploy: Artefact removal.

 

[Deezy88]

Proposed balance change; Remove artifact removal and rebalance scenarios to reflect their true value.

Reasoning; Running artifact removal doesen't improve your chances of winning in the current meta. You might stand in a better position against NG, but there is a tradeoff, where you get slaughtered by other factions which don't run it. Besides, it has become easier to identify people that play artifact removal, given the inclusion of other neutral cards, therefore easier to play around for experienced players.

Yay or Nay.

What would you consider their true value to be?

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

I think better way to deal with this issue would be to put artefact removal on some high value faction cards as an alternative ability.
Wild Boar: Melee-Deploy: Damage, Ranged-Deploy: Artefact removal.

Even so, decks that dont run artifact removal will still be disadvantaged. This is the main criticism of how artifact removal work. You either get a favourable match, or you dont. There is no way you can make the matchups less binary, given the presence of artifact removal.
I also dont think that making 'high value' artifact removal is the right way to go, as it takes away the flexibility and decision in your deck building, if those cards are auto-include, due to their power level.

What would you consider their true value to be?

This is a tricky question. Some factions can play scenarios twice. I dont mind that at all, provided that there is a single card, like the old caretaker which allowed you to replay it, available to all factions. Again, as it is the scenarios for some factions are just too strong, so that only those factions which benefit from replayability the most, will include 'caretaker'. An obvious response is to either buff or nerf scenarios.

 

[4RM3D]

Yay or Nay.

Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Artifacts bad for the game. Too bad the dev's refused to remove them.

 

[Hegemonkey]

Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.

This is a common issue for "hate" cards. I don't like using them because it is the most boring type of counterplay. Basically swinging the game in your favor because you have the exact counter to something.

I agree tech cards like purifies are better designed and more flexible. Also far more interesting.

I think Shupe is my favorite tech card. It offers flexibility at a cost. You aren't always guaranteed to get the answer you want, but that can lead to more variety in gameplay as well. Bestestest Gwenting card xD

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

Artifacts bad for the game. Too bad the dev's refused to remove them.

Despite minimal amount of artifact removal in the current meta, it isn't worth it to include artifacts in the deck. Bronze units are way cheaper, and provide you with the same value as 7p artifact. I would say that artifacts are too bad to be played in this game. Scenarios are a different story.
Artifacts such as portal and svalblood totem are awesome. And I dont mind, just as a pilot project, to buff old-timer artifacts to see how they will compete in the meta. If they are too opressive, then restricting the number of artifacts in the deck to 5 or less, without nerfing provision costs of artifacts, will make them more balanced.

Nay. Counters need to exist. It's just that those counters shouldn't only serve one purpose. Purify is a good counter mechanic because it stops multiple things, while lock is still useful for the other stuff. But artifact removal is too limited. We might need a third category of removal or some artifact rework.

Artifact removal is a hard counter, unlike purify. When playing scenarios, you either get your money's worth, with interest, in matchups with no artifact removal, or huge losses in matchups with artifact removal.

I dont like this kind of interaction. And I cannot be idealistic about of how things should be, as it doesen't resolve the main issue, namely the current state of scenarios. I'm confident that my proposal for the time being, is the best solution, until the creative folks get their head around how counters should work, just like purify.

 

[Iuliandrei]

I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.

They had plenty of warning about artifacts.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.

That is a fair point. Nerfing some scenarios to 20 provision achieves the same thing. Nerfing by other means such as decreasing the power level of the unit spawned by the scenario is another way to do it. Recent change to 'Trebuchet' has diminished the value of 'Siege' scenario.

Developers might nerf 'Ball' provided that the scenario will continue to be autoincluded in any competitive NG deck. So 3 months from now?
What i'm proposing ensures that you get more joy out of the game. Simply by increasing the provision costs of selected Scenarios, a fair price to pay for the value you get, while removing any binary bomb-heaver interactions. Making it enjoyable for both parties.
Vote yes, so that we can create more attention on this matter. Any change at all is arguably better than what we have now.

 

[Archan6el]

I won't be satisfied until scenarios are completely removed from the game, they single handedly destroyed all joy i had for this game.

Scenarios and quite a few other broken or simply unfun cards and mechanics that got introduced since HC made me stop playing. Funnily enough, these cards and mechanics are still there but are pushed to the background by new problematic cards.