When Tutoring Goes Wrong (MM Edition)

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Do you have a good example? it actually costs you at least 24 provisions, and plays for approx. 10 points each time? Sounds pretty bad to me, and on top of that it's predictable.
I think it is more you draw Amphibious you are good to go X2.
If you miss amphibious but draw Oneiromancy you get
Amphibious assault X 2 plus Oneiromancy X1
If you draw them both, you get them both X2.

There is the risk you draw neither all game, but you are probably drawing the cards you wanted anyway at that point.
 
I tried out a weird ST deck that used Novigrad Justice/Ihhuraquax to thin through a few dwarves (played twice with echo) and play Saesenthessis. It was focused on low units, Treants and some immunity, because I was sick of having too many units smashed/damaged (SK) or important synergy being wiped out (NG). I was then drawn against the perfect anti-deck - a NG mill deck, so I was effectively able to do my opponents job for him, but I challenge anybody to think of any gameplay more terrible than having your own deck thinned to the point where you can't draw any cards anymore.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
The Oneiromancy + Amphibious Assault is crazy good. Yes you're paying 24 provisions for it, but they are totally worth it for the consistency and versatility they offer.

AA basically makes 4p units provide you Falibor value. So you're paying 12+4+4= 20 provisions for 2 Falibors basically, that dont even need setup and can change according to the situation. And this is just with basic deploy bronzes, in a Blue Stripes deck or pulling engines out of removal range, AA's value is even greater and harder to evaluate.

And Oneiromancy, personally i think its overkill, i dont use it on my NR decks that already have AA, but i can definitely see why its used, it guarantees your AA which is more important than any other NR card, and can also get the units AA cant get - NR's expensive golds and heaver/pellar.
 
it guarantees your AA which is more important than any other NR card, and can also get the units AA cant get - NR's expensive golds and heaver/pellar.
okays, gonna give it a try.
 
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I think neutral tutors are the ones that bother me the most. I wish Matta, Decree and Onieromancy didn't exist.

Since they are available to every class, they feel redundant on top of the class options and lead to less diverse gameplay.

If you would have told me before the expansion that NR was gonna run Amphibious Assault AND Onieromancy, I wouldn't have wanted to believe it. xD

Totally agree, even the funniest interaction: use Oneiromancy to tutor AA !!
 
Do you have a good example? it actually costs you at least 24 provisions, and plays for approx. 10 points each time? Sounds pretty bad to me, and on top of that it's predictable.

You get both tutors next turn, so you take a point deficit to deck thin x2, get out anything you want that's a unit and is 9 or less provision and then next round, you get to use both for another double deck thin+even more points.

It's a very, very strong tempo play that takes zero thought or skill. Echo tutors tutoring more echo tutors is a very, very big mistake design wise.

Basically, you spend 24 provision to get a 4x deck thin, setup for next turn and a potential point slam before making up the point deficit due to the echo status.
 
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DRK3

Forum veteran
Basically, you spend 24 provision to get a 4x deck thin, setup for next turn and a potential point slam before making up the point deficit due to the echo status.

Not exactly, each echo tutor thins x2, but since you get the echo card again next turn, it adds one to that count, so in the end it only thins by 1, like regular tutors. But of course, it proves amazing consistency, which is the main purpose... just not by thinning, since there are much better thinning tools in the game, but they dont offer the same value and consistency as double tutoring.
 
Not exactly, each echo tutor thins x2, but since you get the echo card again next turn, it adds one to that count, so in the end it only thins by 1, like regular tutors. But of course, it proves amazing consistency, which is the main purpose... just not by thinning, since there are much better thinning tools in the game, but they dont offer the same value and consistency as double tutoring.

Good point! It's not quite as bad as double tutoring. Unless you're evil and run Coup with Joachim or Roderick or both. That gets silly fast lol.
 
Not exactly, each echo tutor thins x2, but since you get the echo card again next turn, it adds one to that count, so in the end it only thins by 1, like regular tutors. But of course, it proves amazing consistency, which is the main purpose... just not by thinning, since there are much better thinning tools in the game, but they dont offer the same value and consistency as double tutoring.
I read your post again more carefully.
I complete agree! :beer: :coolstory:
 
Not exactly, each echo tutor thins x2, but since you get the echo card again next turn, it adds one to that count, so in the end it only thins by 1, like regular tutors. But of course, it proves amazing consistency, which is the main purpose... just not by thinning, since there are much better thinning tools in the game, but they dont offer the same value and consistency as double tutoring.
I gave it a try and it's indeed pretty nuts!
 
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Just ran into my first TRIPLE ball today because of all the tutoring involved:

R1: Oneiromancy to play ball
R2: Assire/Matta to play ball
R3: Renew on Assire, Oneiromancy to play ball

Granted, I only lost by 2 points in round 3 with a MO mid range deck against it, but that is just ridiculous.
 
Many sensible thoughts are in this thread. I wonder if CDPR will take heed.

It would be good to reduce the amount of tutors, and maybe spread most of neutral cards into factions, so that factions have a face again. Devotion was a step in the right direction but the benefits are too low to go for a deck with devotion. Need more cards that benefit from it.
 
Just ran into my first TRIPLE ball today because of all the tutoring involved:

R1: Oneiromancy to play ball
R2: Assire/Matta to play ball
R3: Renew on Assire, Oneiromancy to play ball

Granted, I only lost by 2 points in round 3 with a MO mid range deck against it, but that is just ridiculous.

Did you run that Squirrel in your deck?
 
Many sensible thoughts are in this thread. I wonder if CDPR will take heed.

It would be good to reduce the amount of tutors, and maybe spread most of neutral cards into factions, so that factions have a face again. Devotion was a step in the right direction but the benefits are too low to go for a deck with devotion. Need more cards that benefit from it.
Lol they actually made more!
Skellige even got a Raid tutor, something I was joking about before when I noticed Blood Eagle was a Raid. Simply hilarious.
 
Lol they actually made more!
Skellige even got a Raid tutor, something I was joking about before when I noticed Blood Eagle was a Raid. Simply hilarious.
I was expecting this to happen some day back when SB came as a raid while pushing alchemy. But i did not expect it to happen together with well boodeagle as a huge tutor itself. At somepoint you can have back the tutor tutor tutor tutor oh i forgot to include a value card :D
 
I think tutors is good in moderation and they shall always be a little pricey. You should sacrifice provisions and flexibility for consitancy. The problem now is that you dont have to sacrifice much, you can include 2/3 or more tutors and still run enough strong cards AND draw them that its a must in every deck.
 
Now NR is top tier hmm I wonder why? :think:
Maybe it's because they can Oneiromancy into John Natalis into a 12 point Amphibious Assault? And then get two of those back in hand the next turn allowing them to play virtually anything anytime?
I rest my case. Echo tutors should never have been a thing and they will continue to plague the game from now on.
 
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