The Problem with Nilfgaard

[lor1keet]

OH thanks. I forgot about that OP card that's auto include in every deck. My point remains, it's a neutral card. If you think that's even remotely the same thing as VM Hunter then this really is a pointless convo...anyhow have a good one.

Bahahahahaahhahahaha

OP card...really?!!?

Auto-include?!!? Maybe auto not-include. LOL

 

[Sensimilius]

Just because a card is considered "auto-include" doesn't make it necessarily OP. :]

 

[Guest 4368268]

OH thanks. I forgot about that OP card that's auto include in every deck. My point remains, it's a neutral card. If you think that's even remotely the same thing as VM Hunter then this really is a pointless convo...anyhow have a good one.

The fact VM Hunter is auto-include speaks more to just how poor NG bronzes are than how 'OP' that card is.

 

[ShinAkira00]

Bahahahahaahhahahaha

OP card...really?!!?

Auto-include?!!? Maybe auto not-include. LOL

LOL well he seems to be implying dimetrium shackles is a great card available to every faction hence my sarcastic comment.
I don't know in what world that card is comparable to VM Hunter. If it's so great they should just remove VM Hunter altogether, NG can just use dimetrium shackles because it's such a great card

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

I never said that, all I said was there is a 5p lock that everyone can use (but no one does) and the problem imo doesnt lie in NG having a 4p lock but in it being an aristrocat and therefore being autoinclude. cheers

Honestly, the Aristocrat tag and Bleeding alternative are just bonuses, icing on top of the cake. "Van Moorlehem Hunter" would still see substantial play without them. Like I said earlier, Locking is just too good an ability to give to what should be one of the worst cards in the game. When 4-provision cards are this useful, there's no reason to include most cards that cost 5-8 provisions in one's deck. Everyone will just fill their decks with nothing but overpowered 4-provision cards (like Fangs of the Empire, Magne Division, Tourney Joust, and Van Moorlehem Hunter in Nilfgaard) and as many high value golds that they can find. This deeply imbalances the game and makes drawing and mulligans overly important.

In short, 4-provision cards should NEVER be better or more useful than cards that cost 5 or more provisions because they allow you to play more of the best cards in the game.

 

[Philido]

Honestly, the Aristocrat tag and Bleeding alternative are just bonuses, icing on top of the cake. "Van Moorlehem Hunter" would still see substantial play without them. Like I said earlier, Locking is just too good an ability to give to what should be one of the worst cards in the game. When 4-provision cards are this useful, there's no reason to include most cards that cost 5-8 provisions in one's deck. Everyone will just fill their decks with nothing but overpowered 4-provision cards (like Fangs of the Empire, Magne Division, Tourney Joust, and Van Moorlehem Hunter in Nilfgaard) and as many high value golds that they can find. This deeply imbalances the game and makes drawing and mulligans overly important.

In short, 4-provision cards should NEVER be better or more useful than cards that cost 5 or more provisions because they allow you to play more of the best cards in the game.

Never have I ever heard complaints about Hunters, Magne Division or TOURNEY JOUST being overpowered before. I guess there's a first time for everything, at least here in Forums.

 

[Celadyl]

LOL well he seems to be implying dimetrium shackles is a great card available to every faction hence my sarcastic comment.
I don't know in what world that card is comparable to VM Hunter. If it's so great they should just remove VM Hunter altogether, NG can just use dimetrium shackles because it's such a great card

I'm literally talking to a wall here, huh?

feel free to quote where I said dimetrium was an amazing card. I literally said I think the problem with van moorlem hunter is its aristocrat tag, not the lock, since there is also a 5p neutral lock in dimetrium, which, while one point more expensive due to it being a neutral, does the exact same tempo-wise and no one uses it. what makes VMH so strong is its synergy with masquerade ball, while dimetrium has no synergy with anything, especially outside of NG.

yet instead of responding to my actual statement you just put words in my mouth, arguing against your own built strawman. what a waste of time.

just as a disclaimer: I also didnt say a 4p lock wasnt strong. in theory VMH is super low tempo though, but not with ball.

 

[Philido]

I'm literally talking to a wall here, huh?

I feel like this 95% of the time at the moment. And it doesn't seem to stop.

 

[Celadyl]

Never have I ever heard complaints about Hunters, Magne Division or TOURNEY JOUST being overpowered before. I guess there's a first time for everything, at least here in Forums.

to be fair, I think tourney joust is by far the best 4p special in the game. imagine NR having it

 

[4RM3D]

The comments keep getting shorter and shorter as well as becoming more and more non-constructive. So, if there is nothing of value left to add to the discussion, please just let it rest. Let's not turn it into another wreckage because we all know where that will lead to.

 

[Philido]

to be fair, I think tourney joust is by far the best 4p special in the game. imagine NR having it

Shield op

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

Never have I ever heard complaints about Hunters, Magne Division or TOURNEY JOUST being overpowered before. I guess there's a first time for everything, at least here in Forums.

To reiterate, 4-provision cards should be the absolute worst cards in the game. You're mainly including them in your deck in order to make room for more expensive cards. If 4-provision cards are providing the same amount of utility and value as 5-, 6-, and 7-provision cards, why would anyone choose to play most of the cards that cost 5-7 provisions?

I listed the overpowered 4-provision cards for Nilfgaard because this is a thread about Nilfgaard, and Van Moorlehem Hunters was already being discussed; however, there are plenty of examples of cards that are too good at 4 provisions in the other factions. (e.g. Fisstech Trafficker, Street Urchins, Lyrian Scytheman, Radovid's Royal Guards, Endrega Warrior, basically every 7 for 4 along with the various units with Bond, Fisstech and all the 4-provision damage specials, etc.)

 

[lor1keet]

To reiterate, 4-provision cards should be the absolute worst cards in the game. You're mainly including them in your deck in order to make room for more expensive cards. If 4-provision cards are providing the same amount of utility and value as 5-, 6-, and 7-provision cards, why would anyone choose to play most of the cards that cost 5-7 provisions?

I listed the overpowered 4-provision cards for Nilfgaard because this is a thread about Nilfgaard, and Van Moorlehem Hunters was already being discussed; however, there are plenty of examples of cards that are too good at 4 provisions in the other factions. (e.g. Fisstech Trafficker, Street Urchins, Lyrian Scytheman, Radovid's Royal Guards, Endrega Warrior, basically every 7 for 4 along with the various units with Bond, Fisstech and all the 4-provision damage specials, etc.)

SK says hi.

SK has some awesome 4-provision cards.

Tuirseach Invader can be a 7-power body in the 3rd round for 4 provisions.

Stunning Blow can take out many 5-provision cards for 4 provisions.

The list goes on, but I guess you just want to complain about NG here. LOL After all, NG is listed as 6 out of 6 in win-ratios for the pro-league. Guess you just won't be happy until CDPR deletes NG and has only 5 factions.

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

SK says hi.

SK has some awesome 4-provision cards.

Tuirseach Invader can be a 7-power body in the 3rd round for 4 provisions.

Stunning Blow can take out many 5-provision cards for 4 provisions.

The list goes on, but I guess you just want to complain about NG here.

Please read what you quoted again. Tuirseach Invader is one of those 7 for 4's I mentioned, and obviously, Stunning Blow is a 4-provision damage special.

I never once stated that Nilfgaard is the only faction with overpowered 4-provision cards. In fact, I quite clearly stated the opposite.

 

[lor1keet]

Please read what you quoted again. Tuirseach Invader is one of those 7 for 4's I mentioned, and obviously, Stunning Blow is a 4-provision damage special.

I never once stated that Nilfgaard is the only faction with overpowered 4-provision cards. In fact, I quite clearly stated the opposite.

You keep on with your crusade to nerf NG, even when shown clear data that NG is dead last in winnings.

Why don't you try playing as NG and see what kind of success you will have? If NG is so OP, then it should be a breeze for you.

 

[ya1]

Hunter and Fangs are now op?

 

[IvRoz]

To be fair, Mr @Six-Sided-Prism has been quite clear when stating that said cards are too good for their provision cost.

He has also clarified that it's not an issue exclusive of NG

I dunno why you guys are bagging on him but it gives the impression of you not really being open to debate and just wanting to zealously defend your faction of choice (the very same way some people seem to attack NG just for the sake of it)

I think he makes a good point.

EDIT: Just to clarify, while I find Mr @Six-Sided-Prism reasoning sound, I'd rather buff more bronze cards than nerf them.

That is, I'd like the most bronze cards to see play.

 

[ReaperTek]

VM Hunter made Alba Armored Cavalry (Row locked 5 provisions no alternative skill) obsolete and what bothers me the most about VMH is that he's even able to lock units on you're side of the Board (cow carass, Sabrina for example) while some of the Gold Lock Cards like Margarita, Djenge, Auckes and Letho are only able to target enemy unit's.

I would personally prefer if they would remove lock from bronze units and would make it more powerfull by removing it as a status so that only lock units able to lock and unlock Units again like in open beta in this case they could probably even give something like Radovids old ability (lock 2 units) to NG as a leader skill.

I also agree that some of the 4 Provision Cards of all factions are way to strong considering that they are mainly used as fillers to make room for more powerfull gold Cards, I think this is actually one of the biggest flaws of the provision system and gives Gwent more of a Arena Mode feel, that's why I prefer the old system by a lot (4 Golds/6 Silvers (low tier Golds) /rest bronzes 3 copies instead of 2 possible) where you actually needed to sacrifice synergie if you wanted to include a control card like Gigni, I still remember myself building a deck and realizing that I probably should add some control option like whether removal or lock and still didn't do it because I would lose a lot of synergie if I would replace one of the silver Cards with a control card, while in HC you just remove one or two of higher provision bronzes instead and put in some of the better 4 provisions to make room for that Gold you wanted to add.

 

[Celadyl]

VM Hunter made Alba Armored Cavalry (Row locked 5 provisions no alternative skill) obsolete and what bothers me the most about VMH is that he's even able to lock units on you're side of the Board (cow carass, Sabrina for example) while some of the Gold Lock Cards like Margarita, Djenge, Auckes and Letho are only able to target enemy unit's.

I would personally prefer if they would remove lock from bronze units and would make it more powerfull again by removing it as a status that only lock units able to lock and unlock Units again like in open beta in this case they could probably even give something like Radovids old ability(lock 2 units) to NG as a leader skill.

I actually didnt know that, never saw that happen but it's indeed quite, let's say interesting. just like being able to damage units on your side of the board can sometimes be game winning. they should probably change it so that alba cav can do that instead, so the 5p has more versatility at least.

I think you might overvalue lock a little though, as we seem to get new statuses with every expansion and the inclusion of purifys becomes more and more important, especially in engine and tall decks. this makes the 7p gold locks pretty risky tempo-wise and they already see virtually no play.

 

[Jollyrogerxberg]

Alba Armored Cav still at 5p? Yes totally overshadowed by the hunter. They should just switch places. 4p only lock low Synergy (general Soldier tag is ok). 5p card with good synergy and optional second ability. Well i'm going to write the same post as in "..Anlysis of NG" .
Ethereal gave a comeback to locks, but only bronce locks because a simple consume will restart the engine and your 7p gold is wasted. Before poison and before defenders locks where a thing. Their was no purify only "unlock" like Aguara. All obsolete and out of date and now topped by veil, locks aren'd relyable enough at the price of anything higher than a VM Hunter and here is our answer to that problem....