Forfeit Mentality (and other issues)

[judgecsk]

- Imo a player should be able to quit whenever he feels like it, ofc there has to be some system inbetween to detect non stop quiting in extremely small time windows, this shouldn't be too hard to pull off and it should be enough to keep everyone in check.

- Another way would be to not give XP for loosing when a player has forfeited X number of times within a day thus limiting this action effectively.

 

[IRONATION]

Just out of curiosity, was it that player i complained about?

Also, its true that at high levels you are matched far too often with the same players, i forfeit instantly often, specially when its on the same session, im using the same (memey) deck, they're using the same (tryharder) deck, and i dont need the deja vu.

Forfeiting should be acceptable as long as you're not doing it systematically and have a valid reason to do so.

Hi DRK3, Maybe you are talking about me. Cause recently I got banned permanently and I forfeited a lot in last few weeks before getting banned. If it was me that you complained about then congratulations! And I hope you are having fun cause you are getting to hear it from the person you complained about.

Now come to the point. I was a ladder focused player and mostly played ranked matches. I made it to pro rank every season I played except for the season I started playing the game. The only time I played seasonal mode when I had to complete quests like "Play 40 artifact cards or special cards". completing these quests usually takes 2-3 matches. In the end of last month I was playing seasonal mode to complete a quest and I had to play more than 3 matches to do it, like 5-6 matches. Cause my first 2 opponents forfeited the game in the very beginning. Then after a few days I was doing the quest again and I faced another who forfeited the same way. This made me curious and I visited his in game profile and found out that he won only 600 something matches and got like 10000 gg's. I found this funny cause this guy seemed like the biggest noob on gwent. Then something deep down in my gut told me that this guy was farming gg's. That's how I got the idea and planned to do the same from next day.

So I started doing it and found myself benefited. I started doing if for 12-14 hours a day. My family members didn't like it especially my mom. I was playing too much video game, spending sleepless nights. I was doing all these to collect necessary resources for next expansion. Cause after 31st august I wouldn't be able play the game that much. Cause I am a university student and my university had been off since march because of this covid 19 pandemic and would have opened on 1st of September.

I had no idea what I had been doing was an exploit. I have played a lot of video games before gwent and seen so many exploits. From my experience I do know what an exploit means in video gaming. It means taking the full advantage of a game's broken feature, fault or glitches to benefit yourself. Remember a couple season's ago assimilate was completely broken? As long as I remember it was triggering 2 times when you played a card, witch doesn't match with the feature of assimilate. Some people were taking the advantage of it to rank up on ladder. That was an exploit and cdpr had to fix it in two hours. Now we players normally get xp and gg rewards (If opponent gives gg's) for playing matches here, which is the most normal and usual thing according to the way this game was built. So if cdpr is calling this forfeiting an exploit than I didn't know that I was doing an exploit, cause I was using a game feature. No matter what using a game feature would never get you banned. It also mentioned by the moderators on cheating and exploit thread. That forfeit button is a game feature. And it didn't seem broken either. It worked fine the way it should. You can forfeit in every single multiplayer online game. I am not forced to complete a match. And I can forfeit as many times I want since it's a game feature. I can benefit myself as much as possible using game features. If I was forced to complete a match then gwent wouldn't be a game and I think cdpr knows it better than me or you and that's why they added that button inside the game. If cdpr calls it an exploit then they also admit that this feature is broken or there is something wrong with the game. So why not fix it right away like they fixed assimilate instead of keeping it inside the game and using this to ban people? They are giving you rewards, keeping it inside the game as a game feature, also banning you without any warning calling it an exploit. This whole thing doesn't make any sense. And if they are trying to prove it right then I think they are denying their game law. Also they could've at least warned me that I was doing an exploit and I had to stop it.

If I had known this was an exploit then I would have never done it. Cause I have spent almost 1500 hours on this game, spent money on this game, bought journey packs and I had not have done anything that would lead my account to a permanent ban. I am not foolish like that. All I know that I was playing the game in the most legitimate way possible.

I live in Bangladesh. It's a poor country compared to EU countries. The local currency is called taka. You get very low salary from the jobs here. Food and other living expenses are very low here compared to other countries, especially food. A journey costs $9.99. That money is more than enough to buy a student's 15 days of food. I bought two journeys back to back. To buy these journeys I had to save a couple of dollars every month. I went starving often. You might be laughing after hearing this. But trust me I really had to do this just to buy the journeys. When you live in a poor country like Bangladesh you can't do much but to starve to do something. Job opportunities are very low here especially after covid 19. I did all these things to play gwent cause I love this game a lot. If was intended to do exploits why would I put that amount to a game? I request moderators to pass this massage to the developers if possible. Cause I can't explain all these things through technical support.

 

[judgecsk]

Hi DRK3, Maybe you are talking about me. Cause recently I got banned permanently and I forfeited a lot in last few weeks before getting banned. If it was me that you complained about then congratulations! And I hope you are having fun cause you are getting to hear it from the person you complained about.

Now come to the point. I was a ladder focused player and mostly played ranked matches. I made it to pro rank every season I played except for the season I started playing the game. The only time I played seasonal mode when I had to complete quests like "Play 40 artifact cards or special cards". completing these quests usually takes 2-3 matches. In the end of last month I was playing seasonal mode to complete a quest and I had to play more than 3 matches to do it, like 5-6 matches. Cause my first 2 opponents forfeited the game in the very beginning. Then after a few days I was doing the quest again and I faced another who forfeited the same way. This made me curious and I visited his in game profile and found out that he won only 600 something matches and got like 10000 gg's. I found this funny cause this guy seemed like the biggest noob on gwent. Then something deep down in my gut told me that this guy was farming gg's. That's how I got the idea and planned to do the same from next day.

So I started doing it and found myself benefited. I started doing if for 12-14 hours a day. My family members didn't like it especially my mom. I was playing too much video game, spending sleepless nights. I was doing all these to collect necessary resources for next expansion. Cause after 31st august I wouldn't be able play the game that much. Cause I am a university student and my university had been off since march because of this covid 19 pandemic and would have opened on 1st of September.

I had no idea what I had been doing was an exploit. I have played a lot of video games before gwent and seen so many exploits. From my experience I do know what an exploit means in video gaming. It means taking the full advantage of a game's broken feature, fault or glitches to benefit yourself. Remember a couple season's ago assimilate was completely broken? As long as I remember it was triggering 2 times when you played a card, witch doesn't match with the feature of assimilate. Some people were taking the advantage of it to rank up on ladder. That was an exploit and cdpr had to fix it in two hours. Now we players normally get xp and gg rewards (If opponent gives gg's) for playing matches here, which is the most normal and usual thing according to the way this game was built. So if cdpr is calling this forfeiting an exploit than I didn't know that I was doing an exploit, cause I was using a game feature. No matter what using a game feature would never get you banned. It also mentioned by the moderators on cheating and exploit thread. That forfeit button is a game feature. And it didn't seem broken either. It worked fine the way it should. You can forfeit in every single multiplayer online game. I am not forced to complete a match. And I can forfeit as many times I want since it's a game feature. I can benefit myself as much as possible using game features. If I was forced to complete a match then gwent wouldn't be a game and I think cdpr knows it better than me or you and that's why they added that button inside the game. If cdpr calls it an exploit then they also admit that this feature is broken or there is something wrong with the game. So why not fix it right away like they fixed assimilate instead of keeping it inside the game and using this to ban people? They are giving you rewards, keeping it inside the game as a game feature, also banning you without any warning calling it an exploit. This whole thing doesn't make any sense. And if they are trying to prove it right then I think they are denying their game law. Also they could've at least warned me that I was doing an exploit and I had to stop it.

If I had known this was an exploit then I would have never done it. Cause I have spent almost 1500 hours on this game, spent money on this game, bought journey packs and I had not have done anything that would lead my account to a permanent ban. I am not foolish like that. All I know that I was playing the game in the most legitimate way possible.

I live in Bangladesh. It's a poor country compared to EU countries. The local currency is called taka. You get very low salary from the jobs here. Food and other living expenses are very low here compared to other countries, especially food. A journey costs $9.99. That money is more than enough to buy a student's 15 days of food. I bought two journeys back to back. To buy these journeys I had to save a couple of dollars every month. I went starving often. You might be laughing after hearing this. But trust me I really had to do this just to buy the journeys. When you live in a poor country like Bangladesh you can't do much but to starve to do something. Job opportunities are very low here especially after covid 19. I did all these things to play gwent cause I love this game a lot. If was intended to do exploits why would I put that amount to a game? I request moderators to pass this massage to the developers if possible. Cause I can't explain all these things through technical support.

- Gave you a red point cause I feel for you and I understand that's it's real bad in your country and hell fkn no, it's no laughing matter, for that you have my sympathy mate.

- I understand that you were really dedicated to the game and really love it so ill give you this, imo you should have been warned at least once before such a cruel ban.

- Now... with that out of the way,
WTF were you thinking son !?
You're clever enough to enter a university but you're not clever enough to see that the reward system is intertwined with the currency/shop system..?
I agree with you that what you did should not be considered an exploit "technically" but it makes no difference if the end result can be considered as one.
The loss reward is given out out of generosity (and don't tell me it's not obvious).
It's obvious to see if you stop and think that common logic dictates that one's playing a game to win, not to lose or in your unfortunate, sad but totally predictable end result case, forfeit 12-14hours on row.

- I'm honestly saddened about how much time and money you've invested in the game only to lose it all like this, i really hope for the best for ya.
Next time... think twice...

 

[Draconifors]

This really needs to end here. The forum is not Support and Support are the only ones who would be able to anything about the case in the first place.

@IRONATION, if you have not contacted CDPR Support yet, please do so, here. This won't be a public case anymore.

(Nor will this thread be turned into a discussion on CDPR's policies.)

 

[judgecsk]

@Draconifors

- While i do agree that this surely is not the thread to talk bout the company's policies indeed, I've opened a ticket for technical support involving gwent on steam, 3 weeks later... still no answer...
...anyways.

- Are we even aloud to make threads and/or talk bout the company's policies on this forum or is it a "no no", i'm just curious, i'm not bout to actually start one.

 

[Draconifors]

i'm just curious, i'm not bout to actually start one.

Good.
Such threads are absolutely, 100%, definitely guaranteed to go downhill fast, not to mention their very premise is often accusatory or downright hostile. Which means "no".

And now, back on topic.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

I see skellige - instant forfeit. It's just too boring.

 

[Lokiat0r]

I guess forfeit exploit bans have resulted in the evolution of the "play 1 card and pass R1, play 1 card and pass R2" technique? I've encountered a number of players doing this in matches over the past few days...

 

[SigilFey]

I guess forfeit exploit bans have resulted in the evolution of the "play 1 card and pass R1, play 1 card and pass R2" technique? I've encountered a number of players doing this in matches over the past few days...

As always, if you think you've found a player using exploits, cheats, or intentionally griefing, simply send the situation with the evidence you have into CDPR Support directly.

 

[miniliQuid]

I see skellige - instant forfeit. It's just too boring.

I think this is a large part of the problem you encounter. People just cba to play a game they have no fun in. So they start a game, check who the opponent is, and they forfeit whenever it doesn't suit them.

I have this with NG, and since the last update with NR (I think NR is the OP faction at this moment, though not sure, just feels like that to me, and I encounter too many, gets boring, even if you can win). I don't think NG is too powerful, it's simply that they suck the fun out of the game for me, so no use playing them as often as you encounter them (I like the challenge now and then, and it's certainly possible to beat them, but like NR, it feels like majority play it).

Skellige I didn't find too annoying, but it's probably because it keeps changing, and the different strategies coming forth interest me so far. Also their "OP" deck/strategy often needed the last move to swing the battle in their favor and win (by a huge amount of points), but winning the first round, with only 1 card less, often solved that for me (a geralt at the end will decimate that score, or when playing skellige yourself, counter with morkvarg as the last card played). Of course you can't win them all, sometimes it fails, but well that's part of the game, I liked the challenge.

What annoys me now though is that after the nerf, I encounter them even more, though I see some different strategies from before, it's now just too often that I meet up with NR, SK & NG and MO, SY & SC seem to be lost even further in the avalanche.

I would honestly never forfeit agame against those factions, simply because you don't see them enough. But yeah, I defo forfeit matches that are basically Groundhog Day in this game. When they finally fix those issues, you probably fix the majority of forfeits (and 1 card passes).

What I also tend to do is just a quick play rather than forfeit. I am unsure it's any better for the opponent though, when I just smash all my 10 cards down in the first round just to get 1 crown (so I can complete my bonus crowns for the day). Today my NR opponent send the taunt "Are you a Jester?", and I seriously had to laugh, cause well, it must have kinda felt like it for him, but I was simply bored with playing another NR, and was just thinking I'd grab a quick crown, which would have no doubt ended in the exact same way if I played serious so yeah....

I think CDPR is trying really hard to balance things, as they should, but I think they are doing something wrong in more ways than one

 

[EvanDavidson]

Don't blame the players for forfeiting, blame the game designers for not constructing the game in such a manner that players would not want to forfeit.

 

[SigilFey]

Don't blame the players for forfeiting, blame the game designers for not constructing the game in such a manner that players would not want to forfeit.

Both are issues, in my opinion. On the one hand, we have gameplay which results in some players being more interested in using exploits rather than learning to play more effectively. On the other hand, we have players who are willing to try to abuse the gameplay systems and take advantage of other players' time and enjoyment for their own gain.

Both are very valid situations that deserve attention, but there is no panacea that is going to just rectify both problems with a single stroke.

Forfeiting is a passingly common and relatively necessary function. There are many times that people will simply not be able to continue a match for one reason or another. (People have children, jobs, unexpected interruptions -- life happens!) Or, they will simply use it for the purpose intended...realizing they cannot win the game and desiring not to waste time.

 

[luvCiriTrissYen]

Don't blame the players for forfeiting, blame the game designers for not constructing the game in such a manner that players would not want to forfeit.

I completely disagree with this statement.

There are some player so obsessed with showing "pure skill" and from what I have observed in team based pvp games ( mostly mobas) get very emotionally affected by "losing" a video game.

Also from my experience with MTG I can tell you people forfeit for any of the reasons:

-- The op isn't letting me play they just counter everything - You should be able to prevent your op from playing

- They are killing me to fast - there should be archetypes and way to attempt to end a game early

- "that thing" is not balanced and is unfair you only need to look at this forum to see that . A shield wall "reeeeee" rant was opped even before the patch went live.

- Non interactive - another famous rant form player who think everything should have a counter and designing a game that stop one person from playing is "bad"

- RNG is making me lose - RNG is part of tcg - all game outcomes are perfect valid losses and wins no matter the win condition.

- that deck rarely wins against this deck - that is also a valid game design - it shows deck variety.

- another is "that" is unfun to play against. - for that I will my absolute favorite quote in the community from another player.

A lot of these complaints seem to stem from the direction of "players wasting MY time / dont play how I want them to", but you got to remember, whomever youre playing isnt playing for YOUR enjoyment and as long as they play within the rules are quite entitled to bury you in artifacts, or drive you demented with traps (a personal peeve, but its part of the game), and take their occasional round and XP

Really if anyone has problem with any of the above perhaps TCG are not for them and they would be happier with chess or GO. ( which seem to be the direction the devs are aiming for anyways turning this into one of the most dull games on the market )

 

[Fibsnocci]

Don't forfeit.
This game is slow. Very slow. Many players make it even slower. There are a lot of them around, they know what they are doing: They just wait until you lose patience. After some time you know them and forfeit instantly.
It's auto-win for them.
What can you do? Not much.
1. You forfeit
2. You just quit

The devs don't like forfeiting, since you get a 'reward' for this. There's no reason to get anything at all for forfeiting. Sooner or later, they will ban you for forfeiting. They say you're a cheater, you exploit the game. Forfeiting means cheating because you get an 'advantage'.

It doesn't matter whether you want any reward or not, this is the rules.
So play nicely, be very patient, or let it be
-or-
just quit if you encounter another waiting session.
Your opponents have to wait for a while (which is annoying for them, I hate this, too), but you won't get banned.
Strange rules, indeed.
I warn you: Don't forfeit.

 

[Etoclas]

Forfeiting in Gwent. Lately, with HC i think this issue, if you consider it as such, has been getting out of hand.

I remember when i started over 2 years ago, it took me months before forfeiting the 1st time (didnt even know there was that option), and didnt find many players doing this either. Even when taking a beating, i felt i was learning with the process, and there were still strategies to explore.

As time progressed and the playerbase increased, forfeiting became regular, as netdecks became a thing, and experienced players already knew what was coming most of the times. After Midwinter, with the lack of updates and changes, this lack of originality got worse, understandably...

Fastforward to now, HC era. Everything is new again, and i hoped more players explored the new possibilities, and stayed in-match, to learn with their mistakes. Instead what do we get? Players who forfeit at the first instance of something not going as they had planned.

This has another strong cause: the new pace of the game (a.k.a. slow as hell). I think this is aggravated by the game being more technically demanding - my crap desktop is laggy as hell and the game feels unresponsive, when before it flowed wonderfully. This is the only valid reason i can understand all these quitters.

At the same time(!), i feel the game doesnt give enough time for each turn, since now you dont have to just play a card, but have to coordinate orders, leader and card. In most cases, its more than enough, but in others... For ex. yesterday i built a NG Tactics deck, that i really loved, but it had so many interactions sometimes i wasnt able to do all things i wanted!

But back to forfeiting. Yesterday, in 5-6 hours of playtime, i had over 25 players forfeiting. This isnt a brag, it's a problem.
Im not even playing the annoying decks like artefact heavy, Eithné, heavy control, reveal. I was actually playing things i had never seen in HC like tactics, weather, ...
I noticed how players were caught offguard by the cards i played. Instead of wanting to know more, they forfeited.

This becomes even worse, when you're about to do an achievement and the opponent forfeits. Example: i wanted to exploit the fact no one is using resilience, even when in most R2s players drypass and let the other do whatever he wants, so both start R3 with 10. I put my dwarves, but the bastard forfeits before i even pass. Poof.

TL;DR: stop forfeiting left and right.

It's not a team game, for me it's ok if my opponent forfeits, they are free to do so.

I don't care about missions, achievements and so on.
I care about playing my deck and improving. If the opponent forfeits... one step more in ranking and NEXT UP!

 

[Navid_Soleimani]

With how strong nilfgaard and scoiatail is right now it's no wonder, what's the point to play after a scenario resolves on the last round or 3 of your units getting either locked or taken entirely........or waiting for the Gord crashing down last turn, nah I'm pretty mad myself pal, but you're the first to complain about how I deal with this nonsensical leader abilities and these crazy cards that these factions have......blame the meta not the player

 

[DRK3]

It's not a team game, for me it's ok if my opponent forfeits, they are free to do so.

I don't care about missions, achievements and so on.
I care about playing my deck and improving. If the opponent forfeits... one step more in ranking and NEXT UP!

I already said this before - dont quote me on the original post, its over 2 years old now and its out of context, a lot has changed in Gwent since then, including several of my opinions on its aspects.

I didnt ask the mods to close this thread because it can still be used for players to discuss their thoughts on forfeiting, but dont go back digging old posts.

 

[_Shavi_]

For cases like forfeiting for ingame resources, they should give a warning before banning. They're annoying but I think they would stop if they knew a ban is coming next time.