proposal for a kerack frigate change

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kerack frigate is the new super-engine from the MM expansion, basically in every single NR deck except blue stripes or meme decks, and for a good reason since it plays for 10+ points very easily. on top, it is very hard to stop, especially when played with AA or engineering solution. I think it's definitely a big reason why NR is so goddamn strong right now.
as it is now, it refreshes its ability everytime the crew condition is met at the end of the players turn. this means, killing an adjacent soldier or even moving the frigate to another row usually does nothing to stop it, because it can just immediately spawn a volunteer to the right and you just play a new soldier (which are like 70% of NR's meta units) to the left.
I think the card should refresh its ability at the beginning of the players turn. that way, this powerful engine can actually be interrupted by the opponent via movement or killing a soldier next to it.

what do you think? would this nerf kill the card? I'm genuinely annoyed by how hard it is to even win round 1 against NR, let alone a long round or surviving a bleed. atm everyone is complaining about shield wall and I totally get it but imo it just adds to the overall insane power level of this faction and wouldnt be as much of a problem if one could deal effectively with NR better in earlier rounds.
 
I think they should first tweak Shieldwall and Amphibious Assault then take it from there. These are big reasons why NR is so strong.
 
No, I think the Frigate is fine the way it is. There are ways to counter it, even before the 7.2 patch. Frigate might seem stronger because of the patch and a lot of people are adjusting their decks, but its fine where its at. No nerf or buff needed.
 
No, I think the Frigate is fine the way it is. There are ways to counter it, even before the 7.2 patch. Frigate might seem stronger because of the patch and a lot of people are adjusting their decks, but its fine where its at. No nerf or buff needed.
I thought they were pretty dull the last 2 months already. they are super high reward for very low commitment, basically a slam and forget unit that can realistically only be stopped efficiently by locks or heatwave, with exceptions. it's powerlevel is definitely on par with old greatswords imo. and it's not like NR couldnt handle movement, they have siege ladder for example, with that change the engine would just be more commital imo.

I think they should first tweak Shieldwall and Amphibious Assault then take it from there. These are big reasons why NR is so strong.
shieldwall yes, I think AA wouldnt be nearly as strong if it werent for frigate though.
 
I thought they were pretty dull the last 2 months already. they are super high reward for very low commitment, basically a slam and forget unit that can realistically only be stopped efficiently by locks or heatwave, with exceptions. it's powerlevel is definitely on par with old greatswords imo. and it's not like NR couldnt handle movement, they have siege ladder for example, with that change the engine would just be more commital imo.


shieldwall yes, I think AA wouldnt be nearly as strong if it werent for frigate though.
AA is an echo that's guaranteed 12 points each time. How is that not ridiculously strong?
 
I thought they were pretty dull the last 2 months already. they are super high reward for very low commitment, basically a slam and forget unit that can realistically only be stopped efficiently by locks or heatwave, with exceptions. it's powerlevel is definitely on par with old greatswords imo. and it's not like NR couldnt handle movement, they have siege ladder for example, with that change the engine would just be more commital imo.


shieldwall yes, I think AA wouldnt be nearly as strong if it werent for frigate though.

The same can be said about a lot of bronze cards. I definitely wouldn't put frigate and old Greatsword in the same category (not but a long shot). I look at frigate the same I looked at Etheral, row restricted. I'm very happy for the Etheral nerf, but Frigate can be stopped and countered, it was not ever an automatic engine. I've had NG use it against me by either stealing with that one spy (forgot the name) or using amnesty once the power lvl was brought down. I've had other opponent's deck straight wipe it out. It just depends on the match up and card play at that time.

I do understand what you are saying, its because of 7.2. But give it a week or two, I doubt you will feel the same about it. Once people get their decks situated.
 
Disagreed.
NR is a problem, however Frigate by itself is balanced, hitting it in an arbitrary way is like for no reason putting Caranthir to 9 provisions, despite him not even being in the meta.
 
Disagreed.
NR is a problem, however Frigate by itself is balanced, hitting it in an arbitrary way is like for no reason putting Caranthir to 9 provisions, despite him not even being in the meta.

Yeah, pretty much what I'm saying. I have not played against much NR yet this season/patch, but the ones I did play against, Frigate was not a problem.
 
AA is an echo that's guaranteed 12 points each time. How is that not ridiculously strong?
where did I say it's not strong? and it's not guaranteed 12 points. it plays for 12 with kaedweni knight but people tend to play it with either drummer as a 7 point engine or with frigate, again as a 7 point 2-per-turn engine.

Disagreed.
NR is a problem, however Frigate by itself is balanced, hitting it in an arbitrary way is like for no reason putting Caranthir to 9 provisions, despite him not even being in the meta.
I think it being auto include shows how (not) balanced it is but hey I asked for opinions so it's fine to disagree. the comparison to caranthir is weird though, because frigate is right at the heart of the meta. I would argue it's carrying a lot of weight in NR right now
 
where did I say it's not strong? and it's not guaranteed 12 points. it plays for 12 with kaedweni knight but people tend to play it with either drummer as a 7 point engine or with frigate, again as a 7 point 2-per-turn engine.


I think it being auto include shows how (not) balanced it is but hey I asked for opinions so it's fine to disagree. the comparison to caranthir is weird though, because frigate is right at the heart of the meta. I would argue it's carrying a lot of weight in NR right now
AA is mostly used on Marines since they're both safer and can't brick, and they play for 12 points as well. Sure, if used on Frigate it's even better, but you can't blame Frigate for that. This is why I say AA is the problem, not Frigates. And of course Shieldwall is ridiculous as well.
I think any faction would be broken with AA and Shieldwall, they're simply that strong.
 
[...]
I think it being auto include shows how (not) balanced it is but hey I asked for opinions so it's fine to disagree. the comparison to caranthir is weird though, because frigate is right at the heart of the meta. I would argue it's carrying a lot of weight in NR right now
It is a 2-points per turn engine of which we have multiple, which clogs up a row, is vulnerable to tall punish and terrible if you play 2 copies into one round, while the opponent can move it.
We do not need to agree on this, how I felt it important to mention that the issue with NR is not a single card, but most of what they got, flooding the field in engines and ones, which make dealing with them more difficult if one waits even a bit.

My point with the Caranthir comparison was that I stated it to not be the right move to nerf it and then jokingly compared it to a ludicrous and incomprehensible nerf we actually did get.

[...]
This is why I say AA is the problem, not Frigates. And of course Shieldwall is ridiculous as well.
I think any faction would be broken with AA and Shieldwall, they're simply that strong.
To be fair that would not be true for MO, given that they only have a few decent engines anyways.
 
AA is mostly used on Marines since they're both safer and can't brick, and they play for 12 points as well. Sure, if used on Frigate it's even better, but you can't blame Frigate for that. This is why I say AA is the problem, not Frigates. And of course Shieldwall is ridiculous as well.
I think any faction would be broken with AA and Shieldwall, they're simply that strong.
good point, I guess frigate wouldnt feel OP without AA even to me

It is a 2-points per turn engine of which we have multiple, which clogs up a row, is vulnerable to tall punish and terrible if you play 2 copies into one round, while the opponent can move it.
We do not need to agree on this, how I felt it important to mention that the issue with NR is not a single card, but most of what they got, flooding the field in engines and ones, which make dealing with them more difficult if one waits even a bit.
Its not exactly vulnerable to tall punish but wide punish, with AA it comes as a 7 with 1 shield which is basically the perfect range to stick.

well it seems I've already been heavily outvoted on this, thanks for your input everyone :beer:
 
kerack frigate is the new super-engine from the MM expansion, basically in every single NR deck except blue stripes or meme decks, and for a good reason since it plays for 10+ points very easily....
as it is now, it refreshes its ability everytime the crew condition is met at the end of the players turn. this means, killing an adjacent soldier or even moving the frigate to another row usually does nothing to stop it, because it can just immediately spawn a volunteer to the right and you just play a new soldier (which are like 70% of NR's meta units) to the left.
I think the card should refresh its ability at the beginning of the players turn. that way, this powerful engine can actually be interrupted by the opponent via movement or killing a soldier next to it.
I really like this idea. It is a very restrained adjustment to a card that, while not necessarily a game winner by itself, is clearly excessively powered. No other 2 point per turn bronze engine is as consistent, as easy to set up, and as hard to stop. (Other than NG, most factions have 1 lock card, while two frigates are auto include in NR decks. Moreover, NR has ample boosts to get Frigates outside standard removal range.)

Your proposed nerf neither changes the essential character of the card, nor renders it useless. It does give an opponent an opportunity to weakly (very temporarily) respond to the card in other ways.

I do agree with other posters that this won’t fix NR, but it would be an improvement both in balance and in strategy.
 
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