Suggestion: Red coin cannot pass on first turn R2

[PaleRick]

I always have been and still am against such strict rules, if the game wants you to do something in a certain way it should encourage/incentivize you to do so.. I think its always a bad thing if the devs enforce strict ways of how their game should be played or decide upon a certain "meta" that should be followed.

 

[Anciluart]

The solution for the coin is the same solution as the one for the lands in MtG

 

[bloodydoc]

It is really hard to believe, that the stratagems have not been buffed, considering that the average power of, say, 4 provision cards is certainly above 5 points.

At any level of skill, it's always offence versus defense and it's not like e.g. the tournament games are organised the way that you have the matchups being played on both coins each.
That would be fair, but also extremely long.

Restricting the freedom of passing in R2 seems strange, but for me personally a much better solution, than leaving TA at 5 points.
It's just unfair. Dry pass in R2 on even? Fine. But at some point you stop feeling yourself so good after winning R3 with double last-say.

Cheers

 

[Celadyl]

It is really hard to believe, that the stratagems have not been buffed, considering that the average power of, say, 4 provision cards is certainly above 5 points.

At any level of skill, it's always offence versus defense and it's not like e.g. the tournament games are organised the way that you have the matchups being played on both coins each.
That would be fair, but also extremely long.

I overall agree but I find some specific decks to be very strong on blue coin tbh. boost by 4 and veil on some engines can single-handedly carry the round sometimes.

 

[wonderboy870]

I always have been and still am against such strict rules, if the game wants you to do something in a certain way it should encourage/incentivize you to do so.. I think its always a bad thing if the devs enforce strict ways of how their game should be played or decide upon a certain "meta" that should be followed.

I made this suggestion because in my experience when I win red coin I have a card advantage in round 3. The dry pass in round 2 furthers this advantage significantly. I cannot speak to the average, but my win rate on red is between 60-75% minimum depending on my deck. I invite people to share an approximation of their win rate on red coin. My win rate on blue is lower. Now how much lower varies depending on a lot of factors (ranked vs casual, what faction, am I playing for a quest/contract, etc...) Regardless of the actual percentage my point is simply Red coin is OP, and allowing dry pass in R2 makes it even more OP given the current direction of Gwent. My suggestion eliminates the auto advantage given via dry pass. If you really think about it, I think people will see this creates more excitement and changes the nature of round 2 and round 3.

 

[quintivarium]

The basic three round structure is by far the most interesting strategic part of the game and dry pass is an essential part of that. Even with a high percentage of dry passing, I find round 2 to be the most critical game in the match. Well over half my games where the outcome could be influenced are decided by round two.

If you are really concerned about perceived inequities between red and blue coin (and I believe if I remember correctly that CDPR has indicated this is mostly perceived), a far less damaging approach is to buff stratagems. Even better, get rid of the excessive tutoring which makes the extra Mulligan almost meaningless.

 

[wonderboy870]

The basic three round structure is by far the most interesting strategic part of the game and dry pass is an essential part of that. Even with a high percentage of dry passing, I find round 2 to be the most critical game in the match. Well over half my games where the outcome could be influenced are decided by round two.

If you are really concerned about perceived inequities between red and blue coin (and I believe if I remember correctly that CDPR has indicated this is mostly perceived), a far less damaging approach is to buff stratagems. Even better, get rid of the excessive tutoring which makes the extra Mulligan almost meaningless.

There are plenty of possible fixes. One is to give blue coin 4 draws in round 2 and red stays at 3. Another is a strategm every round for blue (instead of just the first.) Another is to buff the stratagem in either power or utility. I could go on. The reason I like my idea is that it takes a stale game and freshens it while also resolving the largest imbalance.

I don’t have access to the red coin vs blue coin win rates. Even if I did, the problem with using those overall stats is that in casual plenty of people are playing quest or contract decks and not trying to win. Others use meme decks which are not likely to win. Finally you have draw decks and others in what are probably tier 3 or tier 4 which are in theory competitive when things go right but often lose when things go wrong. All of these types of decks corrupt the data. To get a real picture I suggest looking at rank 1 and pro win rates only. My guess is that it is 60-40 red at least. At most probably 70-30. Just a guess, not referencing any official stats.

 

[EduFerraz]

There are plenty of possible fixes. One is to give blue coin 4 draws in round 2 and red stays at 3. Another is a strategm every round for blue (instead of just the first.) Another is to buff the stratagem in either power or utility. I could go on. The reason I like my idea is that it takes a stale game and freshens it while also resolving the largest imbalance.

I don’t have access to the red coin vs blue coin win rates. Even if I did, the problem with using those overall stats is that in casual plenty of people are playing quest or contract decks and not trying to win. Others use meme decks which are not likely to win. Finally you have draw decks and others in what are probably tier 3 or tier 4 which are in theory competitive when things go right but often lose when things go wrong. All of these types of decks corrupt the data. To get a real picture I suggest looking at rank 1 and pro win rates only. My guess is that it is 60-40 red at least. At most probably 70-30. Just a guess, not referencing any official stats.

Well you have your experience and i have mine, but i AM almost in pro rank (i almost dont play in rank games) and my 3 Best decks (and i think everyone else in this seasonal) work better in Blue coin.

SW needs to win round 1, drypass round 2 and take a long round 3.

Symbiosis needs to win round 1, bleed round 2 and takes a short round 3.

Sk warriors (ok i surrender for that deck and started to use it in The Last 3 days, nevertheless i still hate sk warriors) this is The One thats doesnt import If you win round 1, but its better to win, of course.

In all those decks i prefer to start, because i know they are good enought to win round 1 easily in Blue coin.

So, like i said, its your personal experience, because, depends The deck i AM using, i prefer to start in Blue coin.

 

[wonderboy870]

Well you have your experience and i have mine, but i AM almost in pro rank (i almost dont play in rank games) and my 3 Best decks (and i think everyone else in this seasonal) work better in Blue coin.

SW needs to win round 1, drypass round 2 and take a long round 3.

Symbiosis needs to win round 1, bleed round 2 and takes a short round 3.

Sk warriors (ok i surrender for that deck and started to use it in The Last 3 days, nevertheless i still hate sk warriors) this is The One thats doesnt import If you win round 1, but its better to win, of course.

In all those decks i prefer to start, because i know they are good enought to win round 1 easily in Blue coin.

So, like i said, its your personal experience, because, depends The deck i AM using, i prefer to start in Blue coin.

What I don’t get is why the strategm is more valuable to you than the control of red coin? For SW I figure you run the extra shield with a boost 4. Very useful in some situations, but you are forced to trade not getting max value out of your resilience unit.

For symbiosis I am not sure what strategm you use. Personally, I very much prefer strong arming my opponent in round 1, and then dry passing in round 2. The huge point potential of symbiosis allows for advantage in either long or short round 3. With the extra card it is very hard to lose.

SK is still OP. Going up against a deck that isn’t running a high point potential hand like Symbiosis is going to be a win for SK regardless of blue or red. That said, most SK warriors are reaction cards, and therefore red is better than blue in getting max round one value. Please feel free to explain what I am missing.

 

[EduFerraz]

What I don’t get is why the strategm is more valuable to you than the control of red coin? For SW I figure you run the extra shield with a boost 4. Very useful in some situations, but you are forced to trade not getting max value out of your resilience unit.

For symbiosis I am not sure what strategm you use. Personally, I very much prefer strong arming my opponent in round 1, and then dry passing in round 2. The huge point potential of symbiosis allows for advantage in either long or short round 3. With the extra card it is very hard to lose.

SK is still OP. Going up against a deck that isn’t running a high point potential hand like Symbiosis is going to be a win for SK regardless of blue or red. That said, most SK warriors are reaction cards, and therefore red is better than blue in getting max round one value. Please feel free to explain what I am missing.

First i have to say the third mulligan its very important. Almost all The time i have a better hand in Blue than in Red.

Well, in SW The Tactical advantage (or in my case crystal skull) give me a chance to play karack frigate or Anna without almost any trouble. So playing they Quick, you can start tô grow UP.

For symbiosis put One or two symbiosis in The ground means Everytime i play a nature card Will give me more 2 or 3 points.

So figure that, put one symbiosis dryad, use Tactical advantage/crystal skull and Then start your control engine.

Its easy a round One win.

Also, If my oppenent push me Hard, i can pass with 5 cards left, so in next round i Will start with 8 cards and If my oppenent Just pass i use One card and goes tô round 3 with The same amount of card.

If my oppenent try to bleeds me, its my time to be The second One (and He doesnt have tática advantage/crystal skull) to play and i can push Hard and Even get a card advantage for The third round (ok its a hero pass, i always dont do that, but its a possibility).

So, only stupid or to much confiant in his cards tô play more than 5 rcard in round 1 If He starts

Edit; ok, i was Just wandering you play with MO, and in that case, playing yghern The first card i. The second round can make me use 2 cards.

But, of course, in this case, this is too predictable and of course i Will use another stratagema, like play more Hard in round 1 to win, or, at least, make you put on The ground yghern in The first 5 cards.

Also, If. You dont do that, problably you Will need 6 cards to win

 

[wonderboy870]

First i have to say the third mulligan its very important. Almost all The time i have a better hand in Blue than in Red.

Well, in SW The Tactical advantage (or in my case crystal skull) give me a chance to play karack frigate or Anna without almost any trouble. So playing they Quick, you can start tô grow UP.

For symbiosis put One or two symbiosis in The ground means Everytime i play a nature card Will give me more 2 or 3 points.

So figure that, put one symbiosis dryad, use Tactical advantage/crystal skull and Then start your control engine.

Its easy a round One win.

Also, If my oppenent push me Hard, i can pass with 5 cards left, so in next round i Will start with 8 cards and If my oppenent Just pass i use One card and goes tô round 3 with The same amount of card.

If my oppenent try to bleeds me, its my time to be The second One (and He doesnt have tática advantage/crystal skull) to play and i can push Hard and Even get a card advantage for The third round (ok its a hero pass, i always dont do that, but its a possibility).

So, only stupid or to much confiant in his cards tô play more than 5 rcard in round 1 If He starts

Edit; ok, i was Just wandering you play with MO, and in that case, playing yghern The first card i. The second round can make me use 2 cards.

But, of course, in this case, this is too predictable and of course i Will use another stratagema, like play more Hard in round 1 to win, or, at least, make you put on The ground yghern in The first 5 cards.

Also, If. You dont do that, problably you Will need 6 cards to win

Your SW answer makes sense to the extent that veil is useful. Of course if your opponent is running a control deck to counter then the extra points can actually make it easier to eliminate with an instant kill card.

Your symbiosis argument is flawed. You can play the same card second that you played first. The four points are meaningless compared to the advantage you get from CA and final say in round 3. I put up 102 points yesterday in a long round 3 and I didn’t even have a good hand. You can also 2-0 people if you go second and take the round (even if you have to empty your hand.) Symbiosis has huge potential either short or long round depending on your hand.

I have played a lot of MO but am not currently running it. I don’t understand your question, can you please clarify?

In conclusion, I am not saying you cannot play well and win with blue. I am saying that you have an advantage and much higher chance to win with red.

 

[EduFerraz]

Your SW answer makes sense to the extent that veil is useful. Of course if your opponent is running a control deck to counter then the extra points can actually make it easier to eliminate with an instant kill card.

Your symbiosis argument is flawed. You can play the same card second that you played first. The four points are meaningless compared to the advantage you get from CA and final say in round 3. I put up 102 points yesterday in a long round 3 and I didn’t even have a good hand. You can also 2-0 people if you go second and take the round (even if you have to empty your hand.) Symbiosis has huge potential either short or long round depending on your hand.

I have played a lot of MO but am not currently running it. I don’t understand your question, can you please clarify?

In conclusion, I am not saying you cannot play well and win with blue. I am saying that you have an advantage and much higher chance to win with red.

It wasnt a question. Only say If you or someone put yghern on ground with 7 shield poibts (assuming both players started The second round with 8 cards) its dificult to beat using only One card.

For my sk deck i can use hjalmar and kill it If i have a 8 point unit in The gy (problably greatsword or skjall).

For sw deck anseis can do The job but Will die too in The process (since it has 7 armor and yghern onliy dies in The end of the duel) and i Will need tô use One more card to win The round.

For force of nature Deck depends wich deck i AM using, but only thinking in poison or korathi and in that case i Will need to use 2 cards aswell.

Thats why i say yghern problably Will force me to use at least 2 cards.

But what kind off deck you use?

 

[wonderboy870]

It wasnt a question. Only say If you or someone put yghern on ground with 7 shield poibts (assuming both players started The second round with 8 cards) its dificult to beat using only One card.

For my sk deck i can use hjalmar and kill it If i have a 8 point unit in The gy (problably greatsword or skjall).

For sw deck anseis can do The job but Will die too in The process (since it has 7 armor and yghern onliy dies in The end of the duel) and i Will need tô use One more card to win The round.

For force of nature Deck depends wich deck i AM using, but only thinking in poison or korathi and in that case i Will need to use 2 cards aswell.

Thats why i say yghern problably Will force me to use at least 2 cards.

But what kind off deck you use?

Lately I have been doing contract decks. I used a variation of SW but with a focus on volunteers. Before that I played a weather MO deck to spawn ice for 2500 pings. I am currently running a conspiracy deck, and a symbiosis nature deck. When I care about winning I usually run super control. I use Ng and have YI, plus for instant kill cards, a lot of poison, and mid level damage specials. When playing first it wins about 35%. When playing second, about 75-80%. The thing for me was when I hit pro I got bored with all the meta decks so I usually stick to casual.