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While I obviously cannot and do not want to criticize an opposing view, as in, what people consider fun or important (because in the end, it's largely a subjective choice or preference), I am wondering what people mean with "loreful" or one-man-army implications.

This isn't SWAT or ARMA, as in a realistic tactical shooter with the according damage and health stats and sims. It's an (action-?)RPG with a classic story or plot setup, RPG-protagonist based if that makes sense, appealing to both a certain fanbase and also, through adaptations of gameplay and modern features / themes, a wider audience.

Other than that, I would suggest to await the release (it's just one month in essence, and then plus X hours or days to play through and witness it of course) of the game to judge features over abstract debates based on prior footage and assumptions. One can do that too, of course, but I feel awaiting the game and then judging it to the last bit (pun intended) is more effective, and it avoids "circle debates" in this thread or others until release.
 
Summary of the post NCW show interview with Miles Tost:

- all four visual styles (Kitsch, Neokitsch, Enthropism and Neomilitarism) were the foundations upon which they based the design of the entire world, not only explaining their presence via city's history, but also extending them to even minor elements of it, like a different looks for phones and vending machines, based on which period of time they were manufactured, in which region of the city they are used, etc.

- as they already said, day and night cycle affects the number of people on the streets of NC and people will react to the weather changes by, for example, pulling out their umbrellas. During the rain we will be able to see puddles forming on the streets, which will then dry up after the sun comes back

- regarding the question whether there will be places which we will be able to reach only by using the cyberware which allows us to perform double or charged jump, he responded that he believes there will be always some other path leading to every place on the levels, but we can use those type of augmentations to find a shortcut through it or to position ourselves properly for, for example, an aerial takedown, however it's possible we might come across such places in the open world

- to steal the car one need high enough Body stat (for taking the drivers out of the moving vehicle) or Tech stat (to break into locked vehicles). We won't be able to add stolen cars to our collection, in order to expand it we will need to get the cars through other means (like buying them or receiving them as a reward). Later we can use a menu to select which of the vehicles from our collection we want to call (like Roach)

- they don't have many options to modify the car appearance in-game, but they designed a large amount of different version of it, which won't just differ in terms of looks, but also in terms of performance

- we can freely mix and match various clothing styles, but there will be also a certain set of clothes, which we might be required to wear during certain quests (like the suits which we can see Jackie and V wear in The Gig trailer)

- as they stated before, flying vehicles will be usable only during a certain moments, mostly because modifying the whole existing content around them would be a nightmare for the design team

- regarding the music in the game, there won't be much in the way of background music during the exploration, because during those sections they wanted to build the atmosphere through the sounds of the city, but it will appear during combat and important moments. Most of the gangs have their own battle themes playing during confrontations

- there might appear some platforming sections, mostly related to specific paths, so they won't be mandatory

- there will be a special vehicles and items, which we might have only one chance to get during our playthrough

- when it comes to the possibility of obtaining cyberware from the bodies, long time they said no to that, but then they started to think about it a lot in terms of balance and so on, until they decided that ultimately it will be possible in a certain scenarios
Thanks as usual!

One question, though: where the hell was that interview? Holly said it was coming right after NCW, but it wasn't on twitch nor youtube...
 
Thanks as usual!

One question, though: where the hell was that interview? Holly said it was coming right after NCW, but it wasn't on twitch nor youtube...
I had troubles myself finding it, but it turns out that the post show interviews are shown on TwitchGaming channel, CD Projekt official Twitch channel only shows NCW itself.
 
Love the 'Cyberpunk 2077 In Styles-'trailer. Would like to see a link to the song Pain used in the trailer made by Le Destroy.

There are a couple people who ripped the bit of the song that was in the trailer and have it up on their youtube channels now, but the full song doesn't appear to have been uploaded yet.

Wonder if that is something that might be on the rotation at the Mox's club. Seems like it would be a good fit.
 
- Impressively long sentence.
- Miles said he doesn't believe there are areas that would be blocked from those who don't have specific cybernetics, but also that he doesn't know every nook and cranny of Night City. It is possible that some other dev would've created such.

Just to clarify: I was specifically talking about double jump at that moment and having had some time to think on it, generally of course we have areas that can only be accessed with specific cyberware. That is part of what makes unlocking a cyberware and deciding on which ones to use so appealing. I know for a fact that I have implemented some areas with special loot for example, which may only be accessed with the proper skill. However, it is not like you will be blocked from completing a mission objective if you don't have the right tool. While they may be different in how challenging they are, there are always multiple ways of dealing with a mission aka quest.
 
Just to clarify: I was specifically talking about double jump at that moment and having had some time to think on it, generally of course we have areas that can only be accessed with specific cyberware. That is part of what makes unlocking a cyberware and deciding on which ones to use so appealing. I know for a fact that I have implemented some areas with special loot for example, which may only be accessed with the proper skill. However, it is not like you will be blocked from completing a mission objective if you don't have the right tool. While they may be different in how challenging they are, there are always multiple ways of dealing with a mission aka quest.

Thank you so much for taking time to answer us! U_U

I figured requiring specific skills or tools to access certain areas with special loot or lore is kind of a staple in adventure or platforming games that have any kind of exploration. But I certainly didn't want to disagree with any statements from CDPR. ^^
We didn't truly know how big an element exploration will be in CP2077.

Having secret rooms or areas is not a core part of gameplay usually, it is a bonus. But of course these things spark the fascination of players! Its cool to know in advance that we should be looking around more while playing ! :ok:

Batman in Arkham games breaking open walls with explosives or using specific grappling gear to reach secret rooms.. Geralt using Aard to break obstacles to reach areas behind, and so on.
 
1: It may be possible if you prioritise non-combat skills (and play on highest setting), that gunplay will feel more like PnP in terms of lethality. You can still engage in combat but you cannot rely on it alone and certainly not enough to wade through entire gangs. I'm just offering help here. Also, let's wait and see how the game feels.

You just got me back on the playing "Make Believe" point.

2: I'd avoid them and play the way I want. That's the whole point (and beauty) of multiple, viable playstyles. Why would I be salty? It'd be my choice! :)

Avoiding something because it's flawed isn't the same as "playing the way I want".
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Theres literally zero point to continuing to debate this with, it's impossible for you to see reason. Just know that this is a VIDEO GAME and not a tabletop, and your expectations for a video game are way too damn high, let alone way too damn specific (given you're the only person I've seen across these forums and reddit who seems to harbor such issues with this as of yet unreleased game). I respect that your likes and dislikes are different to others, but jeez, you need to reevaluate what video games are and what they can reasonably contain.

What I ask isn't hard to implement (well, not harder than anything else), it's just not the current game philosophy.
And I'm not the only one caring about the lost tabletop aspects of the games, it's just we've been discussing this for literally years and most have stopped to talk about it.
 
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You just got me back on the playing "Make Believe" point.



Avoiding something because it's flawed isn't the same as "playing the way I want".
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What I ask isn't hard to implement (well, not harder than anything else), it's just not the current game philosophy.
And I'm not the only one caring about the lost tabletop aspects of the games, it's just we've been discussing this for literally years and most have stopped to talk about it.
I think, comparatively, what you (and others who have stopped talking about it?) is just not what appeals to a broad enough audience for a video game. The cost of making a game and the income it must generate is a lot more than a tabletop game requires. Thats why it's a video game adaptation of the tabletop, they CANNOT conform to the same standards. The game philosophy is based on what's fun for the player, attractive for new players to the genre/IP and what makes sense for the story. If you want the level of RPG and combat avoidance of the tabletop, then, maybe, you should play the tabletop and the video games aren't for you.
 
And I'm not the only one caring about the lost tabletop aspects of the games, it's just we've been discussing this for literally years and most have stopped to talk about it.

Yeah. And stopped, because there doesn’t seem to be any point to it anymore (if there ever was to begin with).

I could still go on an on about how a perktree adding dmg% and armor% and health% is not a very appealing design desicion, or how deterministic checks make the character progression gamey and arcade, or how having no exploration, interaction or social skills limits the experience, and so forth, all the things I’ve been pushing here for the past eight years... but what’s the point? You can’t get a decent discussion or a hopeful brainstorming about that stuff anymore since there’s no speculation left, just petty squabbles with fanboys. Those features aren’t there now and they aren’t coming in. The game is ready and you build either a solo or an engineer, and that’s it, that’s what we have to deal with if we will, and then give our feedback and decide whether to linger here or move on.

That’s not to say people should be quiet about them, but I personally see little reason to argue for something that has no possibilities of ever happening.
 
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And last. Please give some proof of what you typing, especially about "You can't do quests without combat", "one man army V" and "non-combat skill not existed". Without a proof all of this just rage for nothing.

Where exactly did I wrote "You can't do quests without combat"?:coolstory:

For "One man army V", just look any published video of C2077 with V combats of V against lots of ennemies.

I didn't wrote that "non-combat skill not existed", I wrote, exactly: "By the way even "working", the part about skills, was almost twice the size, yet which non-combat skills survived to C2077?"
What it mean is that almost none of non-combat skills survived, as they were: Personal Grooming, Wardrobe & Style, Interrogation, Intimidate, Oratory, Resist Torture/Drugs, Streetwise, Human Perception, Interview, Leadership, Seduction, Social, Persuation Fast Talk, Perform, Accounting, Anthropology, Awareness/Notice, Biology, Botany, Chemistry, Composition, Diagnose Illness, Education & General Knowledge, Expert, Gamble, Geology, Hide/Evade, History, Know Langage, Library search, Mathematics, Physics, Programming, Shadow/Track, Stock Market, System Knowledge, Teaching, Wilderness Survival, Zoology, Athlethics, Dance, Driving, Motorcycle, Operate Heavy Machinery, Piloting, Stealth, and so on (I'm bored writing all of them).

And what I refered to was not even about having all of them in the game (as someone said before, it's a videogame, and many of them are really specific), it's just that almost all the game skills (as we already saw the game skills list) is combat focused.

Currently, the only hopes standing are either many of them being integrated in stats (but from the returns the game tooltips doesn't explain what stats does outside of combats) and perks. I used to hope about that, but hopes concerning C2077 have been very loreful to C2020 until now.
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Sorry to those who want every part of the gameplay to strictly follow the lore from the tabletop game, but CDPR will prioritize fun gameplay over being true to the lore, as makers of videogames should.

They makes efforts to keep things true to the lore such as the environment, cars, people, etc.., but gameplay is extremely important and needs to be prioritized over unfun gameplay that would only exist just for the sake of strictly being loreful.

I wasn't aware that "fun" was an objective thing and not a subjective one.
 
But I certainly didn't want to disagree with any statements from CDPR. ^^
We didn't truly know how big an element exploration will be in CP2077.

All good! We're also just people, as you can see. :)
In interviews and Q&A it can be quite difficult to come up with good examples on the fly, especially when there are so many options to pick from, but one also has to look out not to spoil stuff for you all.

Having secret rooms or areas is not a core part of gameplay usually, it is a bonus. But of course these things spark the fascination of players! Its cool to know in advance that we should be looking around more while playing ! :ok:

I highly encourage it in fact! Don't make me and the others regret putting in all those optional secrets and hidden loot.
 
I wasn't aware that "fun" was an objective thing and not a subjective one.

Actually, having followed a number of games, it seems to be moving heavily towards being objective depending on how many A’s there are describing the games production values.

RPGs, as they ’should’ work (even as broad as it may be as a category) drop into the ”unfun” territory immediately when the third A appears, sometimes already at the second.

As a friend once said - paraphrasing - liking proper RPG mechanics is the videogame equivalent of liking broccoli and brusselsprouts in your dish. :p
 
I think, comparatively, what you (and others who have stopped talking about it?) is just not what appeals to a broad enough audience for a video game. The cost of making a game and the income it must generate is a lot more than a tabletop game requires. Thats why it's a video game adaptation of the tabletop, they CANNOT conform to the same standards. The game philosophy is based on what's fun for the player, attractive for new players to the genre/IP and what makes sense for the story. If you want the level of RPG and combat avoidance of the tabletop, then, maybe, you should play the tabletop and the video games aren't for you.
It's not CANNOT, it's choose to.
And once against, what is "fun" is subjective.
What I like about that whole discussion that from derailing it began by telling me I was wrong when I said C2077 was trying to be appealing to GTA V players then now for some times the arguments used are just that: trying to get them on board by giving them things they likes.

And don't worry, being a videogame isn't the problem about that, the problem is considering peoples dislike anything that requires a bit of thinking as "not fun".

I seems from what I read that I should be happy video game makers have discovered that casual players liked the idea of "level up", because without that AAA RPG would have been totally replaced by AAA action-adventure games instead of just AAA action-RPG-Lite.

EDIT: Anyway, will be my last post about that, as the discussion clearly have derailed from the last "Night City Wire".
 
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But anyway. The game ”looks” excellent, the mission and narrative design sounds good. We’ll just have to see whether it can stand on its own feet as far as gameplay and the RPG mechanics therein are concerned.
 
You just got me back on the playing "Make Believe" point.

Point is, there might be a chance to play the game in a way that feels more like PnP. Just being positive. I mean, if you did manage to enjoy it, then what does 'make believe' even matter? A good time is a good time.

Avoiding something because it's flawed isn't the same as "playing the way I want".

Er, that's exactly what it is. You specifically avoid the 'flawed thing' because you're playing the game the way you want to, i.e choosing a gameplay style you prefer. I think what you meant was, 'avoiding gameplay styles I don't like wouldn't be necessary if the game was made to my tastes'.

I don't understand the issue. You don't want to gun through entire gangs of enemies? Then don't. Simple. Let's agree to disagree.

Let's not forget, this discussion started because you made accusations that the game wasn't what you wanted it to be because of 'casualisation' (that you yourself then admitted wasn't strictly true), the 'GTA-ification' solely to reach a wider audience (wait and see) and suggestions that resources could have been spent making the game more like you want it to be if they hadn't been spent elsewhere - something we've established would mean essentially two different games.

So no, imho, they didn't run out of resources to implement PnP elements the way you wanted, they simply chose to make the game differently to what you want.
 
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And don't worry, being a videogame isn't the problem about that, the problem is considering peoples dislike anything that requires a bit of thinking as "not fun".

There are mechanics in traditional turn-based RPGs that are "fun" that don't translate to "fun" in open world action RPGs. This is just a fact, as gameplay between the two are totally different.

People always complain "Don't compare Cyberpunk 2077 to GTA! They are completely different games!", yet ironically these same people love to compare Cyberpunk 2077 to turn-based, isometric RPGs and assume that mechanics from the latter should be fun in the former. In reality, Cyberpunk 2077 is way more different from turn-based RPGs than GTA. And those people complaining don't actually want Cyberpunk 2077 in its currently state, they want a completely different game based on a completely different genre.

Cyberpunk's RPG systems are not neutered compared to other similar games like Witcher 3 or Mass Effect. Comparing this game with top-down RPGs or turn-based RPGs systems is unfair, that's like comparing apples to oranges.
 
Comparing this game with top-down RPGs or turn-based RPGs systems is unfair

If that is referring to me (if not, just ignore that whole message), you are putting words inside my mouth. None about what I asked is limited to top-down RPGs nor turn-based RPGs, it can also be find in action-RPG.
 
If that is referring to me (if not, just ignore that whole message), you are putting words inside my mouth. None about what I asked is limited to top-down RPGs nor turn-based RPGs, it can also be find in action-RPG.

Ah ok, sorry. Then I would be interested to hear which systems from which action RPGs you feel should be in the game to make it not an "action-RPG-Lite". I know it won't change anything at this point in regards to the game development, but I'm just curious.
 
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