Why are we not talking Gord?

[Slizzl]

Can someone explain to me why nobody is talking about Gord and how many points he plays for with very little effort?
He's the strongest finisher in the entire game at 3 base points and 7 measly provisions. He plays for way more points than Ozzrel which is a 9 provision 1 point card.
I swear I've seen this guy reach 20+ points multiple times. Without last say that is simply impossible to beat and last say can be quite difficult to acquire against ST these days.
How isn't he nerfed yet? It should be perfectly natural to have him at the same 9 provision 1 point Ozzrel is at. With the chain tutors and echo cards rampant these days giving him ludicrous value even 9 provisions might be too cheap.

 

[DRK3]

Im guessing when you saw him played at 20+ points, he was boosted not only by his own effect but also by external handboosting. Because usually he's played for 13-15 without other handboosts, on both SY and ST lists.

However i do agree this card is seriously undercosted, and also think he should be 9 provisions, which is halfway between his default value (3) and what he can achieve easily (15).

 

[Slizzl]

Im guessing when you saw him played at 20+ points, he was boosted not only by his own effect but also by external handboosting. Because usually he's played for 13-15 without other handboosts, on both SY and ST lists.

However i do agree this card is seriously undercosted, and also think he should be 9 provisions, which is halfway between his default value (3) and what he can achieve easily (15).

His max value without handbuff is 18 now right? There's Forest Protector and the echos. I feel like I see him play around that range quite often. It's not that difficult for ST to play all their specials with all the tutors.
But yeah, with Agitators and Circle of Life he pretty much wins games alone with last say.
I'm not convinced just increasing his provisions to 9 would make a difference, every other card with similar big finishing boosts are 1 base point. Gord grows stronger and stronger when they introduce special resurrecting and echos, he's not capped at 15 anymore. This is why I feel my suggestion is justified.

 

[quintivarium]

I would say that if there is a problem, it is not with Gord, it is with the echoes and tutors — both of which make cards carry more value than any single card should.

 

[judgecsk]

His max value without handbuff is 18 now right? There's Forest Protector and the echos. I feel like I see him play around that range quite often. It's not that difficult for ST to play all their specials with all the tutors.
But yeah, with Agitators and Circle of Life he pretty much wins games alone with last say.
I'm not convinced just increasing his provisions to 9 would make a difference, every other card with similar big finishing boosts are 1 base point. Gord grows stronger and stronger when they introduce special resurrecting and echos, he's not capped at 15 anymore. This is why I feel my suggestion is justified.

Agreed...
I've seen that Gord guy getting real fat from hand buffs and specials after the Echo cards update.
If you don't get last say (even last say isn't enough some times) there's almost nothing you can do to stop it even though you see him coming from miles away..!

Thankfuly I main MOs as a faction and the points provided by the cards can get you real close but what about the other factions..?

I don't know what needs to be done with Gord but other cards have been nerfed due to changes the last patchers brought, maybe up his prov point a bit..?

Aglais is seeing some play nowdays and get's insane value by going taller than any MO unit/card (she's a monster in disguise)
60 to 80 point swings...just insane !

 

[Fargothwave]

Aglais is seeing some play nowdays and get's insane value by going taller than any MO unit/card (she's a monster in disguise)
60 to 80 point swings...just insane !

60 to 80 definitely requires Syanna, so iffy business there. Regular Thunderbolts Aglais is just 28 points, and trust me, handbuffing isn't the way to go with her, usually. Not in this meta.

I don't know what needs to be done with Gord but other cards have been nerfed due to changes the last patchers brought, maybe up his prov point a bit..?

Reworked into something else. In fact, most cards like Gord need to be reworked.
He's nothing like Aglais - guy just needs you to spam specials, which is something ST is doing anyway these days, whereas Aglais is always a centerpiece of a deck you design. At the very least she costs you two thunderbolts (16 prov), which already is a fairly steep price.

But my main beef with Gord is that it actively promotes toxic playstyle where you just spam removal all day while giving your opponent very little to interact with. You know what I am talking about. It's Double Ball energy all over again, except even worse(didn't think this was possible), because this time you can't even take solace in retaliation.

 

[ReaperTek]

His max value without handbuff is 18 now right?

Got him to 20 a few times with a Mahakam Forge Spella'tael Deck without Handbuff, but that required drawing in to all Specials, double Oneiromancy, Triss TK, Forest Protector and getting Morana Runestone creating you another special Card.

I think the root of the problem is the increased and cheap Handbuff Support introduced with Master Mirror, there was a good reason why the Pre MM Handbuff Cards where all so expensive because they can generate carry over. ( I'm kind of still surprised they thought Sacrificial Vanguard had to go with the argument that it can generate carry over when they introduced a lot of cheap Handbuff cards 2 months earlier)

So with the increased Handbuff support I think Gord became incredibly hard to balance and he might even needs to lose his Scoia'tael Faction tag and become a Syndicate only Card (which would be sad for Spella'tael).

I'm still confused they though it's a bright idea to increase the Handbuff Support, it doesn't really feel like they care much about an overall healthy balance and just want to add some new amazing %+€& without caring much about if it could be problematic in the future, heck a this point I probably wouldn't even be surprised if the next expansion brings back something like OB Greatswords and the strengthening archetype gets reintroduced.

 

[Payus]

Got him to 20 a few times with a Mahakam Forge Spellatell Deck without Handbuff, but that required drawing in to all Specials, double Oneiromancy, Triss TK, Forest Protector and getting Morana Runestone creating you another special Card.

I think the root of the problem is the increased and cheap Handbuff Support introduced with Master Mirror, there was a good reason why the Pre MM Handbuff Cards where all so expensive because they can generate carry over. ( I'm kind of still surprised they thought Sacrificial Vanguard had to go with the argument that it can generate carry over when they introduced a lot of cheap Handbuff cards 2 months earlier)

So with the increased Handbuff support I think Gord became incredibly hard to balance and he might even needs to lose his Scoiatell Faction tag and become a Syndicate only Card (which would be sad for Spellatell).

I'm still confused they though it's a bright idea to increase the Handbuff Support, it doesn't really feel like they care much about an overall healthy balance and just want to add some new amazing %+€& without caring much about if it could be problematic in the future, heck a this point I probably wouldn't even be surprised if the next expansion brings back something like OB Greatswords and the strengthening archetype gets reintroduced.

I'm sad to say that the "excuse" to delete Sacrificial Vanguard is either a pure lie or at the very least ignorance of the game, because carryover is on full force. They introduced Allgod, circle of life, etc on SC, but also didn't touch Lippy and Cerys(thank god), they made carryover crows possible...

So all in all deleting SV had NOTHING to do with adressing carryover.

And as we are discussing Gord got much more "carryovery".

 

[Rulegard]

I'm playing SC and MO only and I advise everybody complaining about Gord: Try it yourself! It's not that easy..
- You have to win the 1st round or you will get him removed with the last card, which is not so easy
- you have strong limitations on deck building (at least Isengrimm's counsel and no other dwarf or use NC) to ensure you really get him
- You have a regular max value of Gord of 15 (if you really use the 12 special cards and no artefact; okay no double play of Oneiremancy or the SC-card I don't know the english name of)
So ist this really so problematic?
I play a SC poison deck with Gord and I never manage to play more than 8 special cards before, so my Gord is normally 3 + 2 (buff Isengrimm C) + 8 = 13. That's not so impressive for a finisher... (Some days ago I had to face a 15-pt-cintrian-guard, so what's the problem...?)
And concerning all the whining about handbuff: Try it yourself! It's not so easy winning round 1 without powerful cards, which you are lacking cause of all the special cards and generally low value SC.
And if you fail (will happen for sure if you use to much handbuff in rd 1) and get bled in rd 2 you're f...d...
So, I think Gord is perfectly fine now.
And besides Aglais. Yeah, same thing here. It's awesome to get the 60 points with Syranna and everything else. But you always know what's coming (handbuff + movement) and can usually counter it because it is one of the most predictable decks out there. And if not: I prefer losing against this, than against a lot of NR or SK decks. ;-)
I am using a more versatile Aglais-deck (only one thunderbolt, Sheldon as handbuff-backup to ensure I can win rd 1). And normally I only manage to win if i get Sheldon buffed in rd1 and use him for >15 value in rd1 to win this. Otherwise my Aglais will be normally removed by the last card of the opponent in rd3.

 

[Payus]

I'm playing SC and MO only and I advise everybody complaining about Gord: Try it yourself! It's not that easy..
- You have to win the 1st round or you will get him removed with the last card, which is not so easy
- you have strong limitations on deck building (at least Isengrimm's counsel and no other dwarf or use NC) to ensure you really get him
- You have a regular max value of Gord of 15 (if you really use the 12 special cards and no artefact; okay no double play of Oneiremancy or the SC-card I don't know the english name of)
So ist this really so problematic?
I play a SC poison deck with Gord and I never manage to play more than 8 special cards before, so my Gord is normally 3 + 2 (buff Isengrimm C) + 8 = 13. That's not so impressive for a finisher... (Some days ago I had to face a 15-pt-cintrian-guard, so what's the problem...?)
And concerning all the whining about handbuff: Try it yourself! It's not so easy winning round 1 without powerful cards, which you are lacking cause of all the special cards and generally low value SC.
And if you fail (will happen for sure if you use to much handbuff in rd 1) and get bled in rd 2 you're f...d...
So, I think Gord is perfectly fine now.
And besides Aglais. Yeah, same thing here. It's awesome to get the 60 points with Syranna and everything else. But you always know what's coming (handbuff + movement) and can usually counter it because it is one of the most predictable decks out there. And if not: I prefer losing against this, than against a lot of NR or SK decks. ;-)
I am using a more versatile Aglais-deck (only one thunderbolt, Sheldon as handbuff-backup to ensure I can win rd 1). And normally I only manage to win if i get Sheldon buffed in rd1 and use him for >15 value in rd1 to win this. Otherwise my Aglais will be normally removed by the last card of the opponent in rd3.

13 points for 7 Provisions is still very good, and easy to achieve.
About winning R1 not being easy, thats debatable.
I wouldn't nerf it too hard, maybe just one extra provision.

 

[Barracuda88]

There's literally nothing wrong with Gord. You play the entire match trying to build him up. If you're keeping him in hand trying to handbuff him, that means you have a dead card in R1, which is already hard enough to win, which, if you don't win, you just wasted that entire game handbuffing and building up your Gord. Without handbuff, Gord plays for 12-13 on average, which is less than your Ozzrel, which only requires you to play ONE card to work as a finisher.

 

[Payus]

There's literally nothing wrong with Gord. You play the entire match trying to build him up. If you're keeping him in hand trying to handbuff him, that means you have a dead card in R1, which is already hard enough to win, which, if you don't win, you just wasted that entire game handbuffing and building up your Gord. Without handbuff, Gord plays for 12-13 on average, which is less than your Ozzrel, which only requires you to play ONE card to work as a finisher.

But Ozzrel is 9p. And Corrupted Flaminica has the same effect with beasts which requires you to deckbuild and has the same problems as Gord but with more constraints and often less payoff.

 

[judgecsk]

There's literally nothing wrong with Gord. You play the entire match trying to build him up. If you're keeping him in hand trying to handbuff him, that means you have a dead card in R1, which is already hard enough to win, which, if you don't win, you just wasted that entire game handbuffing and building up your Gord. Without handbuff, Gord plays for 12-13 on average, which is less than your Ozzrel, which only requires you to play ONE card to work as a finisher.

Hey..!
"Pokes him lightly on the shoulder"

You think you're the only one keeping "dead" cards on round one..?

I have no problem with how Gord plays atm but i main MOs and we got high point units, i can't imagine how it is for the other factions (besides SK and NR).

Anyways I wouldn't be surprised if he got nerfed but i hope he doesn't get more than 1prov nerf.

 

[Barracuda88]

But Ozzrel is 9p. And Corrupted Flaminica has the same effect with beasts which requires you to deckbuild and has the same problems as Gord but with more constraints and often less payoff.

Yeah, and I'm not complaining about Ozzrel. He's 9p, because he pretty much never bricks and never plays for less than 11 with 1 card setup, AND can be used for graveyard hate. A fine card.

And I'm not crazy about Flaminica comparison, whose only real similarity to Gord is her provision cost. It's a completely different deck build, with points coming from other sources, including Gedy, and she can still play for 12-15 fairly often. The fact that Flaminica decks are not as "meta" as Nature Gift Gord doesn't mean Gord needs to be automatically nerfed. Nature's Gift is just really strong atm.

 

[rrc]

Gord is actually a strong card. His stats were not changed, so why is he strong now you ask? Echo cards. Onieromancy can get him to play for +3 points tutoring two special cards. Pre MM, he was Meh. The deck he was used was also meh. MM suddenly made him stronger. Thanks (and no thanks) to Echo cards. But Gord decks are super predictable and you shouldn't ideally lose to Gord if you play well (with the help of decent draws in R1). If however your R1 is weak and couldn't secure it, it is pretty much game over.

But usually Gord players play handbuff back-to-back putting shitty tempo and you can easily bully them and win. If they commit Justice, keep pushing and then push R2 (justice is the only other high tempo play they have). If however they haven't committed Justice, don't push R2 as they can secure R2 and will have last say. In this meta, if you don't have tall punish like Headwave (or Morkvarg, Baron/Anseis, etc.) you are anyhow losing the game. So, save it for the last card and kill the big fat Gord. It is actually simple.

When I face PS, I know the game plan immediately and can easily execute it and win (or lose depends on my R1 draws). I can't be sure if he needs to be nerfed to ground. But I wont deny that he is super strong and single handedly carrying ST and SY (both have one viable deck playing Gord and a lot of specials).

 

[Barracuda88]

Hey..!
"Pokes him lightly on the shoulder"

You think you're the only one keeping "dead" cards on round one..?

I have no problem with how Gord plays atm but i main MOs and we got high point units, i can't imagine how it is for the other factions (besides SK and NR).

Anyways I wouldn't be surprised if he got nerfed but i hope he doesn't get more than 1prov nerf.

Well, as a MO main you don't actually NEED all your cards to win round 1

 

[DRK3]

You know something is wrong when an entire faction - ST - revolves around a single 7 provision card, on their strongest decks in a meta (Symbiosis, both devotion and non devotion, and Precision Strike).

And yes, the problem is tutors everywhere that were introduced in MM, and yet Gord stayed the same. You can spam cheap specials that remove and boost while getting those stupid treants, then have a super cheap big finisher. Balancing all that is hard, hence why i think starting with a provision nerf to Gord is simpler to execute.

 

[Sensimilius]

Wait... HE IS JUST 7 PROVISION?!? lmao, I never paid attention to his provision value but I just assumed he's around 9 provisions since he usually plays for like 12 power or more. - This is madness that he's 7 provisions! 8 or 9 would be more expected. I am shocked that I only now noticed how cheap he is.

 

[Barracuda88]

You know something is wrong when an entire faction - ST - revolves around a single 7 provision card, on their strongest decks in a meta (Symbiosis, both devotion and non devotion, and Precision Strike).

And yes, the problem is tutors everywhere that were introduced in MM, and yet Gord stayed the same. You can spam cheap specials that remove and boost while getting those stupid treants, then have a super cheap big finisher. Balancing all that is hard, hence why i think starting with a provision nerf to Gord is simpler to execute.

What's wrong is that unitless is the only viable high level ST build at the moment. The only build that lets ST compete with SK, Shieldwall and OH. So you knock down Gord and it inevitably tweaks the build across the board, what then? ST drops down a peg and out of the "crown" contention until at least the next path. SK, NR and OH solidify their reign. People shocked at how cheap Gord had been breathe a collective sigh of relief. The world rejoices!

 

[ShinAkira00]

Can someone explain to me why nobody is talking about Gord and how many points he plays for with very little effort?
He's the strongest finisher in the entire game at 3 base points and 7 measly provisions. He plays for way more points than Ozzrel which is a 9 provision 1 point card.
I swear I've seen this guy reach 20+ points multiple times. Without last say that is simply impossible to beat and last say can be quite difficult to acquire against ST these days.
How isn't he nerfed yet? It should be perfectly natural to have him at the same 9 provision 1 point Ozzrel is at. With the chain tutors and echo cards rampant these days giving him ludicrous value even 9 provisions might be too cheap.

I think because the problem is more removal and not so much Gord. The typical nature's gift I see can just remove cards while buffing their hand and buffing Gord by extension. If removal wasn't so rampant it wouldn't be so overturned, the condition is just too easily too ridiculous and ppl will compare it to Ozzy but Ozzy can be countered by graveyard banish. I think Gord would be ok if this unit less play wasn't so ridiculous.

Post automatically merged: Oct 21, 2020

Yeah, and I'm not complaining about Ozzrel. He's 9p, because he pretty much never bricks and never plays for less than 11 with 1 card setup, AND can be used for graveyard hate. A fine card.

And I'm not crazy about Flaminica comparison, whose only real similarity to Gord is her provision cost. It's a completely different deck build, with points coming from other sources, including Gedy, and she can still play for 12-15 fairly often. The fact that Flaminica decks are not as "meta" as Nature Gift Gord doesn't mean Gord needs to be automatically nerfed. Nature's Gift is just really strong atm.

I'm going to disagree with you there. MO doesn't have the tutors ST has and Ozzy can be countered through banish to limit his options. I've been forced to play him for 8 or 9 pts plenty of times and he has no interaction from other cards via hand boost.

That said I don't think Gord is the issue so much as unit less play. Adding Nature's gift and all the tutors ST has this should never have happened. At this point it's clear the devs test nothing so I'm not even surprised.