Building a gaming PC

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Ray Tracing sucks all over the place, even with the 3090. The only game changer is DLSS.

I'm not sure DLSS is a game changer either. You basically pay by reducing quality for AI upscaling. Not sure the trade-off is worth it. I.e. I'd prefer simply not to lose quality and not upscale anything even if it's going to use lower resolution like 2560x1440.

And it's not free either - DLSS is using tensor ASICs on the die. Having those means you have less room for other GPU compute units.

 

[DC9V]

I'm not sure DLSS is a game changer either. You basically pay by reducing quality for AI upscaling. Not sure the trade-off is worth it. I.e. I'd prefer simply not to lose quality and not upscale anything even if it's going to use lower resolution like 2560x1440.

And it's not free either - DLSS is using tensor ASICs on the die. Having those means you have less room for other GPU compute units.

Yea, I agree. Me personally I think that the "performance" mode doesn't look great. But it frees up so many FPS that people might decide to keep their current card and end up skipping the 3000/6000 series. Maybe "game-changer" wasn't the right term. Rather a "change-preventer"...

 

[eskiMoe]

Those new AMD card are very efficient. We already more or less knew RT performance was going to be disappointing just based on how the new consoles performed with RT enabled.

 

[SigilFey]

Ray Tracing sucks all over the place, even with the 3090. The only game changer is DLSS.

I have to agree -- but, major caveat -- for now.

This is what I mean about not diving into state-of-the-art tech upon release. There will be piles of issues with RT until both the manufacturers and the devs have a chance to work the kinks out. I find that usually takes 1-3 years after tech is initially introduced. Sometimes it's easy -- like cloth physics or light bloom, for example. They worked out of the box, but it took about a year for creators to figure out a balance that looked and performed pretty universally well. Other times, things just create almost insurmountable obstacles -- like anti-aliasing or ambient occlusion. Yes, they work, but they're extraordinarily performance intensive, and even 10 years later, the user is constantly forced to choose between quality or performance.

In the end, though, I think Ray Tracing is going to wind up being a pretty phenomenal revolution for gaming (especially at true 4K). When they finally nail it down, most lighting elements will be handled by a single system. No longer will we need shaders for everything under the sun: a shader for shadows...a separate shader for glow maps...a separate shader for smoke effects...a separate shader for a flashlight...a separate shader for mirrors...a separate shader for AO...etc. All of it can be handled exclusively through a single, ray-tracing system.

Combine that with true 4K, and we will no longer need anti-aliasing, as full 4K will create "jaggies" small enough that human beings would literally need a magnifying glass to detect them. So all those expensive, post-processing techniques for both geometry and lighting can simply be removed, and all of the processing power devoted exclusively to raw teraflops, managing textures, and universal ray-tracing for all lighting effects. I think that's the point where we're going to see games at full 4K, photo-realistic imaging, "16x the detail", at a full 144 FPS. We'll be back to the days when every frame needed to be rendered only once.

But probably not this week.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I wouldn't say ray tracing with hardware acceleration is the solution for everything. There is innovation in implementing other lighting techniques which don't require dedicated hardware. I.e. it can be a useful addition, but you can do without it as well just fine probably.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

[2007.14394] Signed Distance Fields Dynamic Diffuse Global Illumination

arxiv.org

 

[Skirlasvoud]

I'm looking for some advice:
How much would you say the Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC 8gig RAM is supposed to cost, or any custom RTX 370 in general?

They have them in store sporadically where I live, but they're going for some 680 euros.
Seeing as how the MSRP of the founder's rtx 3070 is some 520 euro, I've the sneaking suspicion that 680 euros is WAY too much.
I have patience. Anyone here think prices may lower to below 600 euros if I give it a wait?


I am interested in Ray-Tracing and... *sigh*... I have to admit I really like the backplate on said card.

I've built my tempered glass micro-atx case to have white-silver-black color scheme, with some tasteful blue RGB. Specs aren't anything special - just a 3700X CPU and 16 gigs of RAM - but I'm still pretty happy with the looks. It actually looks icy and literally cool inside the case.

That GPU... would be perfect.

 

[Hoplite_22]

I'm looking for some advice:
How much would you say the Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC 8gig RAM is supposed to cost, or any custom RTX 370 in general?

They have them in store sporadically where I live, but they're going for some 680 euros.
Seeing as how the MSRP of the founder's rtx 3070 is some 520 euro, I've the sneaking suspicion that 680 euros is WAY too much.
I have patience. Anyone here think prices may lower to below 600 euros if I give it a wait?


I am interested in Ray-Tracing and... *sigh*... I have to admit I really like the backplate on said card.

I've built my tempered glass micro-atx case to have white-silver-black color scheme, with some tasteful blue RGB. Specs aren't anything special - just a 3700X CPU and 16 gigs of RAM - but I'm still pretty happy with the looks. It actually looks icy and literally cool inside the case.

That GPU... would be perfect.

the lack of supply has greatly inflated the prices and closing in on the prices of a 3080 FE is probably a bit much. 620 euro is probably more in line but gonna have a hard time getting one what ever the price.

 

[DC9V]

I'm looking for some advice:
How much would you say the Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC 8gig RAM is supposed to cost, or any custom RTX 370 in general?
They have them in store sporadically where I live, but they're going for some 680 euros.
Seeing as how the MSRP of the founder's rtx 3070 is some 520 euro, I've the sneaking suspicion that 680 euros is WAY too much.

MSRP in the USA is without taxes. Many other countries incorporate taxes and other factors like import fees into sales prices up front. I'd recommend to wait how prices will develop as soon as the 6800 XT gets in stock, because in some titles it seems to have similar Raytracing performance as the 2080ti / 3070.
Btw, the 6800-non-XT has better performance on average compared to the 3070 when RT is disabled, just in case you've overlooked that information...

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Meanwhile, the 3080 is listed for almost 1000€ ( 1150 USD) in Germany

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Custom 6800 XT models will probably also be sold out in seconds. Practially, it will take a few weeks or even months for stock in stores to become stable.

 

[SigilFey]

I wouldn't say ray tracing with hardware acceleration is the solution for everything. There is innovation in implementing other lighting techniques which don't require dedicated hardware. I.e. it can be a useful addition, but you can do without it as well just fine probably.

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

[2007.14394] Signed Distance Fields Dynamic Diffuse Global Illumination

arxiv.org

Neither would I. What I'm saying is that I think it's going to be the next "standard", and that it's going to free up A LOT of processing power when the hardware and software is finally ready for it. Inherently (when it's fully implemented), it will be a universal lighting system that can be used by anyone and everyone to create exactly the look they're going for using only one system. All I would need to do to create renderings that displayed photo-realism vs. cell-shading vs. pixel-art style vs. something like The Simpsons is go in and manage the way light will reflect / refract off of any given surface -- all using exactly the same lighting engine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "...techniques which don't require dedicated hardware," though. There are lots of games at present which use standard CPU for things like shadows or 2D elements, and frankly, all of the ones that I've seen wind up being quite janky in some way. (I'll call on Bethesda's engine and the horrible shadows, in both appearance and performance, since they utilize the CPU only. Extremely limiting.) Always best for graphical concerns to have dedicated GPUs and RAM available. What I think will eventually happen is that we'll start to see video cards with specific components that handle only ray tracing. Same way that a few extra chips and logic processors were included on Nvidia and AMD cards exclusively to handle PhysX when it started to catch on.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

What I mean is techniques that provide something much better than janky but can rely on standard GPU compute units, not on ASICs limited to ray tracing. See the linked paper which gives an idea.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2007.14394.pdf

I think ASICs for ray tracing is a dead end technologically. You can't make ASICs for every single need - you'll run out of space on the card. But if you can find smart ways to achive that using regular compute units of the GPU you can replace ASICs with them.

 

[Skirlasvoud]

MSRP in the USA is without taxes. Many other countries incorporate taxes and other factors like import fees into sales prices up front. I'd recommend to wait how prices will develop as soon as the 6800 XT gets in stock, because in some titles it seems to have similar Raytracing performance as the 2080ti / 3070.
Btw, the 6800-non-XT has better performance on average compared to the 3070 when RT is disabled, just in case you've overlooked that information...

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Meanwhile, the 3080 is listed for almost 1000€ ( 1150 USD) in Germany

Yeah, no worries, I’ve watched he benchmarks from anything to Linus, to Techlinked, to GamerNexus on the 3070 comparisons.

General messages seems to be: “RX 6800 non-XT is better than the 3070 on 1080p, just as good as the 3070 on 1440p or 4K, but fails when you turn on Raytracing. It’s a good option and just 60-80 bucks more expensive.”

However, that means I’ll go for the cheaper card that has ray-tracing and does just as well on 1440p. Namely, the 3070. I’m into atmospheric games.

You’re saying then, that after taxes, 680 euros isn’t that bad... hhhmmm.

Thanks!

 

[Me_HD_i]

My current rig is GTX 1080, i7 6700k 3.8ghz, 16GB DDR4. I hope it'll handle the game with ease, because I have neither the plan nor the funds to go for a newer system.

 

[Hoplite_22]

MSRP in the USA is without taxes. Many other countries incorporate taxes and other factors like import fees into sales prices up front. I'd recommend to wait how prices will develop as soon as the 6800 XT gets in stock, because in some titles it seems to have similar Raytracing performance as the 2080ti / 3070.
Btw, the 6800-non-XT has better performance on average compared to the 3070 when RT is disabled, just in case you've overlooked that information...

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2020

Meanwhile, the 3080 is listed for almost 1000€ ( 1150 USD) in Germany

i'm not from the US, i'm from the UK, the 3080 FE is 700 euro/650 pounds including the 20% VAT we have to pay. third party cards are a lot more sure. starting at 100 more and going up from there for more elaborate designs.

 

[eskiMoe]

My current rig is GTX 1080, i7 6700k 3.8ghz, 16GB DDR4. I hope it'll handle the game with ease, because I have neither the plan nor the funds to go for a newer system.

1080 is close to 2060 in terms of performance. Should be plenty good (as long as you're not targeting 4K)

 

[saintpoe]

I'm putting a Radeon RX 6800 in my new pc. I'm wondering if I'll be able to squeak by with RT minimum with this card? I've never built a pc before so I'm not sure if it will handle that with decent fps.

 

[CyberLettuce]

I have RX 590, Ryzen 5 3600 16GB RAM and plenty of SSD storage on PC.

or PS4 Pro/PS5 paired with my 4K TV.

Do I just upgrade my graphics card to 2080 - 3080 but then I would need a 4K monitor to see the real difference?

 

[Flyddon]

I am torn between Ray Tracing and not... I will be playing this game for the looks and story, not so much for FPS/combat.

I have :
i9-9900K
G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB Ram
Acer Predator Gaming Z321QU monitor ( I normally play 2650x1440)
And
EVGA Classified water cooled 1080 Ti 11 Gb

I believe I am good for HIGH settings at 1440, however I really (think) I want a RTX 3080... But it does not matter since I can't get one (not available / Sold Out).

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

It's interesting that CDPR made a table of hardware requirements per resolution. Well done!

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2020

 

[DC9V]

I am torn between Ray Tracing and not... I will be playing this game for the looks and story, not so much for FPS/combat.
I have : i9-9900K [...] EVGA 1080 Ti 11 Gb
I believe I am good for HIGH settings at 1440, however I really (think) I want a RTX 3080...

I'm putting a Radeon RX 6800 in my new pc. I'm wondering if I'll be able to squeak by with RT minimum with this card? I've never built a pc before so I'm not sure if it will handle that with decent fps.

I'm pretty sure that the Radeon 6800 will be able to do Raytracing at 1440p in the future, similar to a RTX 3070 (DLSS disabled) and at least as good as a RTX 2080 (DLSS disabled) in newer titles.

Since Cyberpunk is sponsored by NVIDIA, it's possible that CDPR is not allowed to put names of AMD cards inside those green-lighted columns. Another simple reason could be that AMD-drivers are not ready yet.

Also, all the next gen consoles feature AMD graphics, so although RT looks outstanding from what we've seen so far, it just can't be that important for the game experience.