Mountains out of molehills. Let's take Dragon Age games...is the toggle for turning off persistent gore censorship? It's a choice. From where I'm sitting freedom to choose is about as democratic as it gets. Does the irony of countless violent murders being acceptable when private parts is not escape me? definitely not. But that has no impact on me and mine so I couldn't care less.
I dont see how it possibly could interfere with the base experiance. (plenty of that discussion in this thread already) Just think of it like the streamer music toggle thing. People probably didnt read that and think "oh no censorship" right? No difference.
(and actually im pretty sure the main reason for them doing this is the same to..)
Actually I have experience making games. Of course nothing this big, but when you design your game every aspect has to be taken in to consideration. Putting in a toggle is awesome for those that want it sure, but every cutscene and experience in the game now has to be tailored to the toggle. Putting on shorts to moving the camera so its not visible, it all comes into play. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a toggle. I'm saying if the toggle makes it where they had to change scenes or the work load comes to a point where it would be easier/cheaper to just not have nudity in that scene then we lost a lot of our cyberpunk game for a toggle, that I for one would just hate.
People think a toggle is so easy to put in like magic. Trust me it's a lot of work and I'm glad CDPR is doing it for us. Just shows how hard working CDPR devs are. BUT if it comes down to money and time verses not having nudity at all... Please CDPR stick to mature games there aren't many studios out there that do em (Right).
Actually I have experience making games. Of course nothing this big, but when you design your game every aspect has to be taken in to consideration. Putting in a toggle is awesome for those that want it sure, but every cutscene and experience in the game now has to be tailored to the toggle. Putting on shorts to moving the camera so its not visible, it all comes into play. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a toggle. I'm saying if the toggle makes it where they had to change scenes or the work load comes to a point where it would be easier/cheaper to just not have nudity in that scene then we lost a lot of our cyberpunk game for a toggle, that I for one would just hate.
People think a toggle is so easy to put in like magic. Trust me it's a lot of work and I'm glad CDPR is doing it for us. Just shows how hard working CDPR devs are. BUT if it comes down to money and time verses not having nudity at all... Please CDPR stick to mature games there aren't many studios out there that do em (Right).
Listen, putting clothes on and off npc's and having non nude versions of already made art isnt a difficult thing, the system already exists just like how you can equip clothing as the PC.
Listen, putting clothes on and off npc's and having non nude versions of already made art isnt a difficult thing, the system already exists just like how you can equip clothing as the PC.
All of that takes time trust me and has to run through testing and not to mention re-rendering the scenes and the like. Bottom line is with a toggle, there is now two versions of that scene. One with and one without both had to be made. You can think it doesn't take much if you like but it does. Assets both Nude and with cloths on etc have to be made for that scene. Speaking about a game I haven't played is hard cause we haven't seen the scenes. It takes time, money, and manpower to do. We are lucky CDPR is doing a toggle at all. That just shows how awesome they are, but its not magic. Everything has to be tested from camera angles changed and assets made lighting changed. etc, etc. Just for a toggle. That's not counting the implementing the toggle itself and how that interferes with the engine/systems.
I'm not saying anyone shouldn't do one. Just saying for that toggle the devs worked hard to make sure its there.
All of that takes time trust me and has to run through testing and not to mention re-rendering the scenes and the like. Bottom line is with a toggle, there is now two versions of that scene. One with and one without both had to be made. You can think it doesn't take much if you like but it does. Assets both Nude and with cloths on etc have to be made for that scene. Speaking about a game I haven't played is hard cause we haven't seen the scenes. It takes time, money, and manpower to do. We are lucky CDPR is doing a toggle at all. That just shows how awesome they are, but its not magic. Everything has to be tested from camera angles changed and assets made lighting changed. etc, etc. Just for a toggle. That's not counting the implementing the toggle itself and how that interferes with the engine/systems.
I'm not saying anyone shouldn't do one. Just saying for that toggle the devs worked hard to make sure its there.
There are no scenes that need to be "re-rendered".
"Assets for both nude and non nude" dont need to be made because you can just choose that the npc has clothing with the toggle on and no clothing with the toggle off, again like the pc choosing to wear a jacket or not.
There are no scenes that need to be "re-rendered".
"Assets for both nude and non nude" dont need to be made because you can just choose that the npc has clothing with the toggle on and no clothing with the toggle off, again like the pc choosing to wear a jacket or not.
Coool. we will see. Where are these assets coming from? Are you on the team btw? You seem so sure of how these scene are made. I haven't seen the scenes myself so I can't really express what technics were used. I do know how other studios do scenes like that, cause I have worked on them. I see it a lot people think its just a matter of putting cloths on the asset. Every scene is hand crafted and work on by a lot of artists from environment, animation, and lighting artist work hard to make sure every asset works in the scene. Nothing in game making is as easy as you make it out to be trust me. I think you are confusing the characters that are in the game world wearing cloths? Like just use those? those cloths working in one scene doesn't mean it will work in another. (Lighting and all that) Plus that's missing point on everything I said about implementing a toggle. Trust me when CDPR started development, hell might even have been pre-production. They knew they were going to do a toggle for this. Unless they just wanted to destroy their teams and put it in last minute.
I for one:
Never seen that technic your saying in action and would bet no one has. Every scene is hand crafted and if CDPR did do it like you say.. I would 1. Be very disappointed with CDPR 2. Would never buy a "AAA" game from them again. But having played The Witcher 3 I can tell you they will be hand crafting every aspect of every scene in that game. Nothing with be as simple as you think it is.
Coool. we will see. Where are these assets coming from? Are you on the team btw? You seem so sure of how these scene are made. I haven't seen the scenes myself so I can't really express what technics were used. I do know how other studios do scenes like that, cause I have worked on them. I see it a lot people think its just a matter of putting cloths on the asset. Every scene is hand crafted and work on by a lot of artists from environment, animation, and lighting artist work hard to make sure every asset works in the scene. Nothing in game making is as easy as you make it out to be trust me. I think you are confusing the characters that are in the game world wearing cloths? Like just use those? those cloths working in one scene doesn't mean it will work in another. (Lighting and all that) Plus that's missing point on everything I said about implementing a toggle. Trust me when CDPR started development, hell might even have been pre-production. They knew they were going to do a toggle for this. Unless they just wanted to destroy their teams and put it in last minute.
I for one:
Never seen that technic your saying in action and would bet no one has. Every scene is hand crafted and if CDPR did do it like you say.. I would 1. Be very disappointed with CDPR 2. Would never buy a "AAA" game from them again. But having played The Witcher 3 I can tell you they will be hand crafting every aspect of every scene in that game. Nothing with be as simple as you think it is.
What assets? The clothing? Im pretty sure clothing existed before they decided to add the toggle. I dont think you understand that the "clothing" would be underwear. It literally is just as easy as putting clothes onto them it doesnt change the scene or how the character interacts.
Do you think there would be a problem if I put a lamp out of the way into the back ground of an already made "scene" .. No there wold jus tbe a lamp there now.. and there wasnt any particular time or effort to put it there because the "asset" already exists and soi do the tools for placing it.
Never seen that technic your saying in action and would bet no one has. Every scene is hand crafted and if CDPR did do it like you say.. I would 1. Be very disappointed with CDPR 2. Would never buy a "AAA" game from them again. But having played The Witcher 3 I can tell you they will be hand crafting every aspect of every scene in that game. Nothing with be as simple as you think it is.
By the way, so we are on the same page. You do know what the large majority of "cut scenes" are first person realtime and interactable yes? There are no pre-rendered cinematics.
What assets? The clothing? Im pretty sure clothing existed before they decided to add the toggle. I dont think you understand that the "clothing" would be underwear. It literally is just as easy as putting clothes onto them it doesnt change the scene or how the character interacts.
Do you think there would be a problem if I put a lamp out of the way into the back ground of an already made "scene" .. No there wold jus tbe a lamp there now.. and there wasnt any particular time or effort to put it there because the "asset" already exists and soi do the tools for placing it.
Post automatically merged:
By the way, so we are on the same page. You do know what the large majority of "cut scenes" are first person realtime and interactable yes? There are no pre-rendered cinematics.
I don't think you get what I am saying. Everything in this game is created and handcrafted. There is nothing you are seeing in game that isn't. It doesn't matter if its interactable (which has its own issues) or if and you might think its "realtime" as it too is handcrafted. They did not add the toggle at last minute unless they have a real need to replace their project manager...
Every EVERY scene is hand crafted and would need to be crafted in a way to work with the toggle. Your saying just use the model with underwear like we are pulling it out of thin air... The assets have to be created, as this is a world wide release game they had to make the underwear models anyways for countries that don't allow those things IE China/Japan come to mind. That's not the same in every games case though. Trust me CDPR will never, well I hope they would never just link the engine to another asset and call it a day. Testing has to be done and trust me it never "just works".
You lamp example is wrong as well, cause with the lamp there are shadows. Now or those shadows baked in or are they dynamic? Where are the light sources? Where in the scene is the lamp located? Would removing the lamp cause more issues or would it even make sense for the scene. To you its just removing a lamp, but to a dev team removing that lamp is a calculated move. I wished it was as easy as you say, cause it would make my job easier.
All I'm saying is CDPR did a lot of work just for this toggle and that just shows you how awesome a studio like CDPR is. We can't say that with every studio though. As a lot of studios most of the time have to answer to non understanding investors and publishers. The toggle does cost time and money to do. As with everything done in Video games it cost recourses.
I just hope the day doesn't come, that the toggle becomes to costly and they just rather go with a teen rating. I'm sure I don't have to worry about that with CDPR but you never know what the future holds. If that day comes I would rather give up the toggle and keep my mature game.
I don't think you get what I am saying. Everything in this game is created and handcrafted. There is nothing you are seeing in game that isn't. It doesn't matter if its interactable (which has its own issues) or if and you might think its "realtime" as it too is handcrafted. They did not add the toggle at last minute unless they have a real need to replace their project manager...
Every EVERY scene is hand crafted and would need to be crafted in a way to work with the toggle. Your saying just use the model with underwear like we are pulling it out of thin air... The assets have to be created, as this is a world wide release game they had to make the underwear models anyways for countries that don't allow those things IE China/Japan come to mind. That's not the same in every games case though. Trust me CDPR will never, well I hope they would never just link the engine to another asset and call it a day. Testing has to be done and trust me it never "just works".
You lamp example is wrong as well, cause with the lamp there are shadows. Now or those shadows baked in or are they dynamic? Where are the light sources? Where in the scene is the lamp located? Would removing the lamp cause more issues or would it even make sense for the scene. To you its just removing a lamp, but to a dev team removing that lamp is a calculated move. I wished it was as easy as you say, cause it would make my job easier.
All I'm saying is CDPR did a lot of work just for this toggle and that just shows you how awesome a studio like CDPR is. We can't say that with every studio though. As a lot of studios most of the time have to answer to non understanding investors and publishers. The toggle does cost time and money to do. As with everything done in Video games it cost recourses.
I just hope the day doesn't come, that the toggle becomes to costly and they just rather go with a teen rating. I'm sure I don't have to worry about that with CDPR but you never know what the future holds. If that day comes I would rather give up the toggle and keep my mature game.
I get what your saying, but youre wrong and I was trying to explain.
I think its obvious that the "experience" you are speaking from is from you just playing with blender or some other rendering tool and are just forcing that experience onto how you view the how the game engine works.
I dont need to create new shadows if I drop a lamp into the game because the engine has tools to cast light rays and shadow. So the example is perfect because it actually shows exactly you seem to have some different definition for "scene". I dont need to create redo everything in a scene because I put underpants onto an npc. And I dont need to create new tools to do those things in the first place either.
(edited in I forgot)
The engine tools already exist. The engine calculates light and shadow. And they already obviously have tools to equip items onto characters. So the devs can freely move things around, equip/change clothes of people in the "scene" etc etc at will. And again - I dont really even know what we are talking about when we say "scene" - because as I mentioned the cut scenes are mostly first person, the things were you get caught by the cops, or deal with royce- those are cut scenes. so- when you say it what do you mean? Are you talking about those as well or refering only to the rare 3rd person "scenes"? - which still are not cinematic renders but just the camera moving around.
I don't think you get what I am saying. Everything in this game is created and handcrafted. There is nothing you are seeing in game that isn't. It doesn't matter if its interactable (which has its own issues) or if and you might think its "realtime" as it too is handcrafted.
I think this quote is what it comes down to. "it doesnt matter if the scenes are real time or pre rendered or not because its hand crafted" - so the animations and objects are all hand crafted yes, but it is a important factor whether or not a "scene" is a pre-rendered cut scene or a normal in game event with the camera moving around. The "hand crafted" bit isnt an important factor there, whether or not the stuff in the scene are hand crafted hols no relevance in the context of what your talking about.
I get what your saying, but youre wrong and I was trying to explain.
I think its obvious that the "experience" you are speaking from is from you just playing with blender or some other rendering tool and are just forcing that experience onto how you view the how the game engine works.
I dont need to create new shadows if I drop a lamp into the game because the engine has tools to cast light rays and shadow. So the example is perfect because it actually shows exactly you seem to have some different definition for "scene". I dont need to create redo everything in a scene because I put underpants onto an npc. And I dont need to create new tools to do those things in the first place either.
(edited in I forgot)
The engine tools already exist. The engine calculates light and shadow. And they already obviously have tools to equip items onto characters. So the devs can freely move things around, equip/change clothes of people in the "scene" etc etc at will. And again - I dont really even know what we are talking about when we say "scene" - because as I mentioned the cut scenes are mostly first person, the things were you get caught by the cops, or deal with royce- those are cut scenes. so- when you say it what do you mean? Are you talking about those as well or refering only to the rare 3rd person "scenes"? - which still are not cinematic renders but just the camera moving around.
Post automatically merged:
I think this quote is what it comes down to. "it doesnt matter if the scenes are real time or pre rendered or not because its hand crafted" - so the animations and objects are all hand crafted yes, but it is a important factor whether or not a "scene" is a pre-rendered cut scene or a normal in game event with the camera moving around. The "hand crafted" bit isnt an important factor there, whether or not the stuff in the scene are hand crafted hols no relevance in the context of what your talking about.
You said it your self. The fact you think its easy or not is not really the point. All I'm saying is work has to be done to incorporate the toggle. The Red Engine 4 is a in house engine. Engine tools have to be made. Rigs built for the animators. Technical Artist do a lot that people think the engine "just handles". That engine handles it because it was created to. Someone has to create those tools, develop that engine, animate those "scenes" etc. Takes a lot of experienced folks to develop an AAA game like this.
All I'm saying is. It's all, ALL handcrafted. Nothing is never "It just works". Nothing just already exist. Even using an engine already fully developed like say licensing Unreal Engine. Tools would need to be created for it to make that engine usable for that project. You can reuse assets and tools from a past project yes, but they still have to be tested. Time is money no matter if it's 30mins or 3 months or even 8 years, each project has to have resources.
We are both right in a way. Though it does not matter how the scene is formatted really. Yes it can be easy for an animator to fix the animation and camera angles using rigs and tools made for the engine. Work still has to be done. Plus someone crafted those tools to. Without your good olde neighborhood Technical artist, completion of these projects would be so much harder and longer. Trust me This project was created with the toggle in mind. It wasn't added last minute (hopefully). If it was added last minute. That's a lot of work to do and CDPR might want to look for new project managers.
It's gonna be a wild ride. Plus I can not wait to see what technics they used. Just seeing this engine in action is going to be a treat. I really need to see what process was used for these "scenes". It could be very interesting or plain bottom line boring (which I doubt). Dec 10th can not come soon enough.
Hello, I wanted to create a thread on petitioning the CD project team to have an option in the game to censor cuss words. If i am playing the game and there are children or parents in the home, i don't want to make them hear the profanity. I don't want to wear headsets as i am aware of health...
You said it your self. The fact you think its easy or not is not really the point. All I'm saying is work has to be done to incorporate the toggle. The Red Engine 4 is a in house engine. Engine tools have to be made. Rigs built for the animators. Technical Artist do a lot that people think the engine "just handles". That engine handles it because it was created to. Someone has to create those tools, develop that engine, animate those "scenes" etc. Takes a lot of experienced folks to develop an AAA game like this.
All I'm saying is. It's all, ALL handcrafted. Nothing is never "It just works". Nothing just already exist. Even using an engine already fully developed like say licensing Unreal Engine. Tools would need to be created for it to make that engine usable for that project. You can reuse assets and tools from a past project yes, but they still have to be tested. Time is money no matter if it's 30mins or 3 months or even 8 years, each project has to have resources.
We are both right in a way. Though it does not matter how the scene is formatted really. Yes it can be easy for an animator to fix the animation and camera angles using rigs and tools made for the engine. Work still has to be done. Plus someone crafted those tools to. Without your good olde neighborhood Technical artist, completion of these projects would be so much harder and longer. Trust me This project was created with the toggle in mind. It wasn't added last minute (hopefully). If it was added last minute. That's a lot of work to do and CDPR might want to look for new project managers.
It's gonna be a wild ride. Plus I can not wait to see what technics they used. Just seeing this engine in action is going to be a treat. I really need to see what process was used for these "scenes". It could be very interesting or plain bottom line boring (which I doubt). Dec 10th can not come soon enough.
I think we are talking about two different things. You are talking about pre-rendered cinematic cut scenes, and im talking about how cyberpunk 2077 has been explained to have "cut scenes" - Which are real time and interactive - Like scripted sequences of actual gameplay,
And even the I don't think it would be difficult and take away from anything else to just make on with clothes and and without.
The game is now released. People are able to see exactly what the options are. Arguing further about whether or not it will be included is pointless. The options are included.
If you would prefer to play the game with nudity enabled, that option is also available. Further discussion here will need to be focused on how the actual options are working. Mostly -- was anything missed?
Comments arguing it should or should not be an option are cyclic, and therefore, non-constructive. The final decision was made. Let's move the conversation forward based on what is included in the actual game, please.
I’m not sure if I’m the only one facing this issue.
I live in Japan, and I know this game is censored in Japan just like other games (assassin’s creed, the last of us 2, even the Witcher 3), so I usually buy games from other ps store, Hong Kong or US, in that case I can enjoy them by using my Japan PSN account and all the games are uncensored, but somehow cyberpunk 2077 does not work the same way, I bought the game from Hong Kong PSN store and I’m pretty sure it is not censored for Hong Kong area(Asia version), however if I use my Japan PSN account to play this game, there’s no nudity option in the game, it seems censored.
does anyone have the same issue here? I don’t think this is the way it should be, because I purchased an uncensored version from other region’s PSN store, it should be uncensored no matter which account I use to play...
Exactly this, he's worried about a tit that his son/daughter actually sucked on. (well most likely) But decapitating a head, or blowing somebody to pieces that's just Monday....
I believe the nudity that exists in the game may be a bit to prevalent a part of Cyberpunk. End result is, this is not a game that is meant as "fun for the whole family" by any means.
The trouble is how it works in practice. In order for a character model that was once "nude" to be "covered", it would need to be rebuilt and retextured, and then that clothed version programmed into the game...for every possible instance of nudity. While it's technically possible, I would imagine it may not be an options because of the sheer amount of work that would need to go into it -- in addition to the fact that it's not in line with the creators' vision for the game.
