Witcher 3 -also- had a lot of issues. CDPR fixed them. They will this.

[Retro-_-]

Y'know, there's been a few games that planned shows, merch and 'expanded universe' before the games were even out.

Some of those games were: Cheetahmen, bubsy and Defiance. Never heard of them? That's because they flopped so hard everything was canceled.

I don't think it's a good idea to over-invest and over-hype a project that had not yet proven itself to have lasting impact. The same way games over the past decade tried to become 'esport' by simply throwing money at advertising and pro teams with no one really caring. Remember Heroes of Newerth or <generic moba #2908527>? Or all the battle royale / zombie games?

CP77 won't be a net loss financially but it will be a huge hit on the consumer good will CDPR had cultivated over many years. This game is a flop and has no lasting appeal, and it'll take a lot of time and genuine effort to change this. Can they change this? Yes. But more importantly. Do they TRULY have it in them / want to?

Only time will tell.

I think the most painful thing about CP2077 though is that aspects of it are so unbelievably good. Something as overlooked as characters, which I have to give to CDPR, are a masterpiece in this game. From the voices to the mannerisms and bonds/chemistry they have with each other. This game could be so good, even revolutionary as they touted it, and it is so painfully close.

But as you say, really it is whether CDPR will or want to make that push over the wall

 

[Argast]

Sadly, the biggest problem of the game is not the bugs or the AI but its story/endings and CDPR will probably not fix that.

 

[Silariell]

I think the most painful thing about CP2077 though is that aspects of it are so unbelievably good. Something as overlooked as characters, which I have to give to CDPR, are a masterpiece in this game. From the voices to the mannerisms and bonds/chemistry they have with each other. This game could be so good, even revolutionary as they touted it, and it is so painfully close.

It's tough to give them a pass for this because this is a game, not a movie. Like yeah, I agree, it's cool that the characters have amazing acting and facial animations, they are written and directed well; But... Again. This is a game, not a movie. If the gameplay is lacking, no amount of polish will fix it. They need to address the game behind the graphics, because 'just nice graphics' is not something you can ride on for longterm success.

Though even with movies & shows -- Remember Avatar? The overhyped over-produced pocahontas ripoff with aliens? I think you remember the blue alien people being drawn really well but you wouldn't want to watch that movie again. As opposed to Avatar: The Last Airbender (the show, not the movie) where the story pretty much made it an instant classic.

 

[Retro-_-]

It's tough to give them a pass for this because this is a game, not a movie. Like yeah, I agree, it's cool that the characters have amazing acting and facial animations, they are written and directed well; But... Again. This is a game, not a movie. If the gameplay is lacking, no amount of polish will fix it. They need to address the game behind the graphics, because 'just nice graphics' is not something you can ride on for longterm success.

Though even with movies & shows -- Remember Avatar? The overhyped over-produced pocahontas ripoff with aliens? I think you remember the blue alien people being drawn really well but you wouldn't want to watch that movie again. As opposed to Avatar: The Last Airbender (the show, not the movie) where the story pretty much made it an instant classic.

It's not necessarily the graphics, I mean the acting and facial animations are key, but when you absolutely nail something like they have with believable characters who have wonderfully rich personalities, back stories and amazing chemistry and bonds. How can you then support that with a 30 hour main story with little replayability, questionable endings and seemingly meaningless decisions and romances?

It was a wonderful journey but you get to the end and can't help think "Well what were those 30 hours for? Where now... continue the journey, nah look at these holo messages instead. Back to Night City...well yeah, but only in a previous save, and to do what?"

It is very much like Avatar at the moment where you don't go play to replay, just for the highlights. Playing saved missions etc that were fun, like rewatching your favourite Avatar scene on Youtube

 

[Alienminator]

TW3 didn't have this plethora of cut content and thereby broken promises though which these forums are full to bursting off.

TW3 didn't even remotely release *this* broken, and I know, having played it from Day 1 on PS4.

TW3 also didn't even remotely feel this extremely rushed, as CP2077 does.

TW3 also never lacked this entirely any elements one would and should expect from an RPG; CP2077 does. There is pretty much nothing to justify calling it an RPG in it.
Which is probably why in the 11th hour even CDPR stopped doing so on Twitter.

And last but not least:
Even at launch, TW3's world didn't even remotely feel as devoid of life as Night City does.

I don't know what you're actually trying to do with this thread, because it really feels like you're trying to whitewash the fiasco that was CP2077's launch, which is a whole new dimension of messed up compared to TW3... and that whitewashing would be really disrespectful to the hundreds, if not thousands of users who are constructively voicing their criticism over cut content and other assorted issues that go so much farther beyond just bugs.

Do I believe they will fix the bugs in time?
They probably will.

Do I believe they will add all the missing content, all the stuff we were told would be in the game?
Sceptical, really sceptical... why was it all cut in the first place?

Do I believe they'll care about turning their city into what it was marketed to be, a living, breathing megalopolis, which it currently doesn't even come close to?
Maybe.

But:
Is it even remotely acceptable to release a game this broken, this incomplete, for full price, call it a release master, when objectively speaking it is rather still in Early Beta?

No.

Totally agree with you, CDPR promised the world, a game that was more advanced and ahead of others yet this is, for the best part a mediocre game. TW3, although had it's issues was nothing compared to this and i for one am getting fed up of apologists making excuses for the devs, they are the kind of people who order a T-bone steak but get served a hamburger yet say nothing, still pay the original price then defend the establishment to their dinner companions. and for those who keep coming out with the line "CDPR will fix it, they will patch it" etc, unfortunately that's not good enough, the game should not have been shipped in the state it's in, it's nearly a week after release, many people still can't play the game [you would not expect to buy a car then be told you can't drive it until the car says so] other have persistent in-game problems that either crash the game or make the experience unpleasant and then you have others who just try and soldier on but without any really enjoyment because the in-game problems just zap all the fun out of it .

CDPR made a promise and are yet to deliver, the game has more bugs then should be acceptable to anyone with an ounce of sense. People have paid a lot of money for this game, too some, it may not be a lot but to many it was, some may have had to save for a month or two all to by this over hyped game, i for one bought the collectors edition, based on the hype and expectations of the game, even though it was priced at nearly double the price of other games collectors editions [my choice] yet it is standing in the corner as a monument of the disappointment the game is.

 

[Bloodartist]

I'm not sure what you mean by feels rushed. Most of the launch issues came up with optimization has been my general impression, when the story and content were mostly complete. Thus the multiple delays.

The UI in CP2077 feels totally incomplete work and messy. It uses different buttons for same purpose in different menus (for example scrolling a menu left/right). It forgets to allow setting buttonbinds for certain actions (most notably the most common button after movement: "use"). In menus it forgets that mouse exists and can also be used to navigate menus. Some menus require clicking three separate buttons when you could just as well achieve the same thing by releasing the button you are using to hold a quickmenu open. The list goes on and on.

The AI is almost non-existent. Civilians won't move when you honk your car horn. Civilians don't pay any attention if you steal stuff in front of their face. Police don't chase, they teleport. The NPCs do only two things: walk about or react to gunfire. Sometimes they cower in fear when there is nothing to fear.

There are several details we have come to take as granted in other open world games, and there is no reason those shouldn't be present in CP2077 either, yet they aren't there. The most obvious explanation is rushed development, and devs not having time to go through all the motions.

The other day I ran into a quest with obviously unfinished animations. (NPC gliding along the floor without moving their feet back and forth, and teleporting between standing and sitting positions).

I am not talking about performance problems here. I am talking about details that are omitted when you are pressed for time and won't be able to do multiple passes.

 

[Alienminator]

Yeah... no.

There are plenty of other games who do shooting better, driving better, hell, even just "copying" GTA V, a game that's been out for years, would have been a vast improvement over the current mechanics in CP2077.

Braindance getting cut from anything but missions, even though there's still an NPC vendor selling BDs?
That's not about technological limitations either, as after all, in missions they worked, and they're not really any more fancy than what Detroit Become Human did with their Inspection Mode.

Sorry, no offense towards you personally meant, but this is as lame an excuse as they come.
This isn't down to technological limitations, this is down to corporate greed, or rather: shareholder greed.
They simply wanted to cash in on the XMAS sales period, which is the strongest of the year, and they also simply wanted to cash in on as many platforms as possible, never mind the consequences ... hence the PS4/XBone desaster.

This is exactly what happens when companies stop caring about their customers, their loyal supporters, and begin caring, to the exclusion of everything and everyone else, about their bottom line!

We've seen this exact same thing with Blizzard, EA, Activision... I just never thought CDPR would enter such ignoble a company, what with CDPR initially having set out to prove these very bad business models obsolete.

Exactly, this is nothing more than corporate greed. CDPR made promises, pre-orders and orders were all based on these promises yet they had no intention on keeping them. They knew they were going to ship this game with key elements missing yet still said nothing, I feel like i have been hit by a pyramid scheme, helping make someone else rich while i have lost all my money. Like many others, we all expected there to be a few teething problems with a new game but you never expect the dev's to not only ship a game that has so many issues but have the majority of what they promised in-game toto be removed. It's like buying a COD game only to have them remove any action and have the devs tell you they'll add it later. I mean if this had been any other type of organisation they would be looked into by trading standards due to .the false and misleading advertising of a product
CDPR should hold their head in shame, although they are probably can't as they are probably trying to keep their heads "above" the sea of money they have raked in.

 

[lelxrv]

It feels like CP77 needs a serious make-over like Final Fantasy XIV and No Man's Sky.

 

[Keive]

I believe they will fix bugs, 100% believe that.
I don't believe that'll add the content I want and the things that seem to be missing, I care about that more since bugs can be fixed.

 

[lelxrv]

Isn't mouse absent during dialogues since we're supposed to be able to rotate our head during conversations?

 

[Ducuk]

Bugs, glitches and performance issues can be fix but what about lack of content?

 

[Gen_Liu]

Well, it's true that TW3 had issues on its own but you have to realize that it was nothing compared to CP.
TW3 was an open world RPG with the bugs and issues you can expect from that kind of game on release. So, of course, people complained because you can't just ignore those things, it's normal to ask for a bug free experience, or at least as bug free as possible.

But CP is at an unacceptable state that I don't think I've ever seen in a video game....Like ever.

Now I do agree that CDPR are known for keeping a good track of the different issues on their game and I trust them to fix the bugs and AI issues CP has right now but we have to make something clear: There's a LOT more work to do on CP compared to TW3 back at the time, it's not even comparable...And that's true on every plateforms, btw (not just last gen consoles), I hope this is something CDPR realize and take seriously enough.

 

[DrKoin]

To be honest, I'd love to even be able to comment on the cut content, the characters, the storyline or everything else.

Right now, I can only comment on what I experienced of the gameplay and how little I saw of the city. I've barely even see anything of the gamedesign or the story.
Heck, I haven't even met Keanu reeves. And I have a few hours of playtime !
Made up of the same segments.
Done and redone, over and over again, saving whenever I can, crashing again and again, until I finish the task at hand.

The Corp prologue took me 2 to 3hours to do. Saving the girl in the bathtub took so many restarts/reloads I totally forgot why I was here or who she even was. I've rerun the first ripperdoc meeting more time than I can fathom, until I learn with accurate precision where to click to get out of the dialogues and the menus and off the doc's chair as fast as possible. In an incredible fit of luck, I could do the DeShawn dialogue at the back of the car in one go, then a few crashes later, I was blessed with a one shot Meredith Stout encounter. Maelstrom, on the other hand, I'm still inside. That's where I'm basically at in the game after multiple hours of playtime and literally zero exploration.

And always that GPU crash, over, and over, and over.

At this point I tested probably every acceptable solutions that were suggested in other topics, and it's still not working. I didn't quite like the Witchers series so I was wary of grabbing a CDRP game, but my love for the cyberpunk genre and my love for pretty, advanced, closer-and-closer-to-CGI graphics proved stronger... And I can't even play.
Oh, and it's not a PS4 version, it's on PC. A fairly decent rig that cost me about 5000 euros mid to late 2019 - 2080ti, AMD 3950x, full PCIe 4.0 ssds, 64gb ram.
And no word AFAIK on the crashes and literal unplayable state on PC. Heck, I'm almost jealous of the PS4 version at this point because at least, it runs

I'm not really angry. I'm just disappointed. Everyone is always praising CDRP for their games, but so far, for me, it's been 4 strikes - even though to be honest it's just because I wasn't invested in the Witcher world at this point that I didn't really spend time with W3. Which, by the way, I had no issue running at launch from what I can remember, except, of course, for the performances that weren't exactly great - something I can live with.

 

[prime853]

To be honest, I'd love to even be able to comment on the cut content, the characters, the storyline or everything else.

Right now, I can only comment on what I experienced of the gameplay and how little I saw of the city. I've barely even see anything of the gamedesign or the story.
Heck, I haven't even met Keanu reeves. And I have a few hours of playtime !
Made up of the same segments.
Done and redone, over and over again, saving whenever I can, crashing again and again, until I finish the task at hand.

The Corp prologue took me 2 to 3hours to do. Saving the girl in the bathtub took so many restarts/reloads I totally forgot why I was here or who she even was. I've rerun the first ripperdoc meeting more time than I can fathom, until I learn with accurate precision where to click to get out of the dialogues and the menus and off the doc's chair as fast as possible. In an incredible fit of luck, I could do the DeShawn dialogue at the back of the car in one go, then a few crashes later, I was blessed with a one shot Meredith Stout encounter. Maelstrom, on the other hand, I'm still inside. That's where I'm basically at in the game after multiple hours of playtime and literally zero exploration.

And always that GPU crash, over, and over, and over.

At this point I tested probably every acceptable solutions that were suggested in other topics, and it's still not working. I didn't quite like the Witchers series so I was wary of grabbing a CDRP game, but my love for the cyberpunk genre and my love for pretty, advanced, closer-and-closer-to-CGI graphics proved stronger... And I can't even play.
Oh, and it's not a PS4 version, it's on PC. A fairly decent rig that cost me about 5000 euros mid to late 2019 - 2080ti, AMD 3950x, full PCIe 4.0 ssds, 64gb ram.
And no word AFAIK on the crashes and literal unplayable state on PC. Heck, I'm almost jealous of the PS4 version at this point because at least, it runs

I'm not really angry. I'm just disappointed. Everyone is always praising CDRP for their games, but so far, for me, it's been 4 strikes - even though to be honest it's just because I wasn't invested in the Witcher world at this point that I didn't really spend time with W3. Which, by the way, I had no issue running at launch from what I can remember, except, of course, for the performances that weren't exactly great - something I can live with.

Dont worry mate. i just built anm $8k rig and im having similar issues. no matter how powerful your rig is, the game itself is where the problem lies.

 

[hollibolli1970]

I think the most painful thing about CP2077 though is that aspects of it are so unbelievably good. Something as overlooked as characters, which I have to give to CDPR, are a masterpiece in this game. From the voices to the mannerisms and bonds/chemistry they have with each other. This game could be so good, even revolutionary as they touted it, and it is so painfully close.

But as you say, really it is whether CDPR will or want to make that push over the wall

They have one thing what really helps to make believable characters.. They have the best dialouge tool in the industry hands down. Only games that mocap can be better but CDPR's tool is so good, that there is basicly no difference to see. Sadly that doesn't save the game. It is not even mediocre, it is just meh. Yes as many other's said, the bugs can be, and will be fixed. But the fundamental flaws can't, without redo them like the nonexistent ai, heck the world does not react to anything you do other than cower in fear. Tyres get not damaged if you shoot at them and so on and so on. Really CDPR what happend? You failed to make a believable world. What happend to the rpg aspect? Really CDPR what happend? It is bad enough that you lied, thus, showed us that you can not be trusted anymore. And sorry i don't buy your apologie that you only made for damage control. This game is nothing like what you promised us.

 

[Kikinho]

They have one thing what really helps to make believable characters.. They have the best dialouge tool in the industry hands down. Only games that mocap can be better but CDPR's tool is so good, that there is basicly no difference to see. Sadly that doesn't save the game. It is not even mediocre, it is just meh. Yes as many other's said, the bugs can be, and will be fixed. But the fundamental flaws can't, without redo them like the nonexistent ai, heck the world does not react to anything you do other than cower in fear. Tyres get not damaged if you shoot at them and so on and so on. Really CDPR what happend? You failed to make a believable world. What happend to the rpg aspect? Really CDPR what happend? It is bad enough that you lied, thus, showed us that you can not be trusted anymore. And sorry i don't buy your apologie that you only made for damage control. This game is nothing like what you promised us.

Tbh I did see plenty of posts for character appreciation in it.
And so true! Take the car damage. I wrecked my char a couple of times and I was confused about how to repair it until I realised it just magically gets repaired after a while.
And your bike can't be even damaged aside from your tires catch fire sometimes lol.

 

[Retro-_-]

They have one thing what really helps to make believable characters.. They have the best dialouge tool in the industry hands down. Only games that mocap can be better but CDPR's tool is so good, that there is basicly no difference to see. Sadly that doesn't save the game. It is not even mediocre, it is just meh. Yes as many other's said, the bugs can be, and will be fixed. But the fundamental flaws can't, without redo them like the nonexistent ai, heck the world does not react to anything you do other than cower in fear. Tyres get not damaged if you shoot at them and so on and so on. Really CDPR what happend? You failed to make a believable world. What happend to the rpg aspect? Really CDPR what happend? It is bad enough that you lied, thus, showed us that you can not be trusted anymore. And sorry i don't buy your apologie that you only made for damage control. This game is nothing like what you promised us.

That seems to be a recurring theme, that the dialog, mocap acting and relations/interactions between characters are bordering on next level good and provide a remarkable connection with the characters. But this beauty is in isolation as all the other elements are sub par. Would son love to be able to jump in game, independent of the storyline, and just hang out with romances.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2020

Tbh I did see plenty of posts for character appreciation in it.
And so true! Take the car damage. I wrecked my char a couple of times and I was confused about how to repair it until I realised it just magically gets repaired after a while.
And your bike can't be even damaged aside from your tires catch fire sometimes lol.

I called my car to my location, it had no body panels haha. Like who the hell has been driving my car.

 

[die-yng]

Not like this, dude. Witcher 3 was nothing like this.
This is a buggy mess with tons of essential features missing.
And the way CDPR is going about with this game, I don't see them fixing it in so significant ways.

 

[Kolara]

witcher 3 only thing problem was the bugs
cp 2077 too many missing features ...

 

[Dermax]

Witcher 3 had bugs, but it was also a much more finished game. People always talk about "The Bloody Baron" questline - but there were numerous quests where choices mattered. The little "Tower of Rats" sidequest could be finished at least 3 different ways and could even effect the endgame.

"Choices" in Cyberpunk really don't change that much. Even the "multiple endings" are really only variations on the same.