[STORY SPOILERS] The Gripes and Problems with the Story

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What options should be explored // should have been explored?


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I wanted to post this to voice my thoughts on the story of Cyberpunk 2077, having completed the main storyline, as its ending has left me with a feeling perfectly described as “Lack of Satisfaction, Plenty of Depression.”

Disclaimers before reading:
  1. First, I will begin with my major concerns which I feel go beyond the realm of opinion to certain degrees.
  2. I will talk about the depressive conclusion to the story, then the lack of satisfaction after.
  3. Note that I played through the game with the sole intention (narratively speaking) of surviving the biochip. Thus, the choice of becoming an immortalized engram is out of the question - equally as bad as death (you still die, more on that later).
  4. Later on, my thoughts will become more opinionated.
  5. The eventual conclusion, and perhaps some future options to consider.
  6. NO TOXICITY! If this thread gains traction, let’s not ruin it by having it locked by the moderators. Keep constructive, toxicity-free discussion flowing!
(TLDR later, though I advise detail for understanding.)


[Firstly, the dejection and lack of satisfaction.]

This character you spend multiple hours pouring into, having formed bonds with various NPCs (platonic and romantic, more on this later), even going beyond to become the best Night City has ever seen... dies from the Cyberpunk equivalent of cancer. No matter what, V dies - sooner than you may think, too.
Discussions I’ve seen state how you have the choice of multiple endings which all end in the following...
  1. Dying before Mikoshi,
  2. Dying at Mikoshi,
  3. Dying 6 months after Mikoshi.
Not to mention all of these outcomes are spread across many - if not all - endings...

During the raid at Mikoshi, V is struck with the Soulkiller. In the event you have forgotten, Soulkiller kills the host and creates an engram - a copy. In case you glossed over that, let me rephrase it: The original V is dead, completely gone. The V that comes back is a copy. Not to mention, this copy is also dying. So how is this bad?

Agency and Choice. V’s death entirely undoes any initiative taken towards survival. With the intention to survive the Biochip, all that V has striven to achieve has been made irrelevant and pointless - you are doomed to die regardless of your choice. All of this takes away agency and satisfaction, and in both of their wakes come dejection.

With the depressive conclusion, this is where things become opinionated, though still hold true in regards to the agency and narration.


[Now for Opinions.]

Taking a narrative perspective regarding relationships, let’s use Judy as an example, whom my character proceeded to romance. Though I will admit there is a tinge of personal bitterness here (you will soon understand why), V’s story and achievements are unwritten at Mikoshi, which I believe to be more important to emphasise than my own feelings on the matter.

Declaring their feelings for each other, suddenly things start to blossom between our two lovebirds - until...
  1. With the original V dead, that choice is made null. She will never meet her romance again.
  2. With the engram taking its place in V’s body (again, not the original V), Fake-V is dying in this relationship. No happy endings there.
  3. Six months later, that’s another death which not only applies to Judy, but also to other romance options. (Remember how not only the loss of Eve is on Judy’s conscience, but also the suffered backlash from Clouds? Yikes...)


[TL;DR & Conclusion (No, really, the detail above explains it much better.)]

All this only piles on to the depressive endings, which largely make me unwilling to return to the game for a second round. So how can this be changed? (Do also note the addendums below.)

I firmly believe the game would have benefited more from a timed biochip mechanic rather than static, scripted increases in percentage. The faster V acts, the less damaged the body, thus giving way to a better ending for our protagonist. I also believe the timed mechanic should function from a daily increase. In short: I believe the prospect of a full survival should be offered.

This fixes one problem, but another still remains: V dies regardless. Remember Soulkiller?

This is where I believe DLC can come into play, where the possibilities of evading the Soulkiller entirely are explored for V. How exactly this could be explored, I’m unsure. Perhaps the possibility of ousting the biochip’s damage in the same way the biochip began ousting our own identity? Nanites to eat away at Johnny’s damage after the biochip removal, the same way his nanites began to eat away at V’s brain? We know Arasaka has other areas they operate in, as is evident by Hanako’s questline.

I strongly believe the endings that are present in the game should remain present, though I oppose the idea of the only good ending being 6 months to live. Through future endeavours, grit & determination from player action, I believe the game’s story can and should have a brighter outcome for our V - and keeping the original V alive instead of Fake-V. As of now, it’s too depressive for a positive outlook as the prospect of survival is ultimately irrelevant, which leaves a longing bitterness in gameplay.

Edit: [Addendums & Highlights]
Bringing to light some posts I feel are worth considering. (Follow the links for full responses.)

My response to a post in another forum...
It just feels wrong to have not included at least one good ending. It doesn't necessarily have to be "happy" per se. I'll give some examples.

I would be 100% okay with either of the following options and consider them to be "good" in contrast to the other endings, though still retaining the "bittersweet" notion of it all.

  1. V manages to avoid dying to Soulkiller and was able to stop the neural degradation from the Biochip. This means there is no assimilation, no engram, and no eventual demise for our protagonist, but the original, authentic V we came to care for over the many hours we played as is still alive and well. However, the damage has taken it's toll on our body. We still suffer frequent glitches in our software and vomit blood on the daily. In short: We live, but we walk out with scars to bear.
  2. V manages to avoid dying to Soulkiller and has discovered the neural degradation can be prevented through a sort of "compatibility." V and Johnny find a way coexist with each other and live in the same body through some modification to the Biochip. It's still in you, but you're not dead. Your body is not wholly your own, but you are no longer dying and can live the rest of your life.

Posts by MeinChurro and casbynyss...
I'd rather have a seperation of V and Johnny. I would not consider a merging a good ending, it would be a solid "neutral". I would probably never take this option if it was introduced. I want an ending option where we can save the original V, and either kill Johnny (turning it into a supposed "Bad" ending) or seperating from him - which would be all the better (preferably the option for either).
We'd all rather have them separated, but I think the classic Ghost in the Shell "two merge into one, becoming a new being" should still be an option too.

A post by Argast, along with my response...
That's also my biggest gripe with the endings. They would be fine, even excellent, in a 10-20 hour on rail fps where you play through it relatively quickly, get your heartstrings pulled at and then move on to another game, but in a large open world RPG where you can easily spend 100 hours, build up your reputation and character and create relationships with various people these unsatisfying open endings are just bad and kill any desire to replay the game or play through DLCs, because in the end it's all meaningless.
I say this paragraph with upmost confidence that even if the "6 months to live" ending is one that is picked up on, it is still fundamentally bleak and pointless.
Again, our character is dead. The copy is an intruder of our authentic self, not our original character. That V has lost everything, which leaves us even more desolate and dejected.

A post by Animard...
First ending I did was Johnnys way and Judy leave at the end plus the, obvious, place of glory suicide in space were a really depressing ending of 50 hours of game time.

I do concure with most of what is said here but I have a slightly different thought about the Soulkiller.

It does kill V, yes, however Soulkiller is meant to copy the mind of the host to transfer it to the Relic / Mikoshi, or a new body ( yes, looking at you Saburo), which give it its name as it does not copy ones soul.

Now if we think in technical ways, its the similar as to copying an operating system to a new machine. To do so the running system has to be stopped, or suspended ( flatlined V ), to have access to one fixed state of it and not having to deal with ongoing thought processes or memories being formed.

If V decides to return to their body its not a new body, its still the original and their old mind / brain is still there, just suspended by the Soulkiller processes. Alt uploads the engram to the cybernatic part and may that what the nanites had affected, thus V knows what had transpired in Mikoshi, and reanimates the body again thus restarting the brain as well, just like the nanites did when Dex shot them.

Given this it does shine a different light on the endings based on what Hellman says during the Arisaka ending "Well, you don't have a whole team and facility dedicated to just you.", meaning that there would be a possible way to fix the damage of the Relic if they would want to.

So based on that the endings feel like:

Suicide = End of the line.

All Johnny take over = Basicly the same as suicide for V, not sure if I should feel happy for Johnny to get a new chance, one which he didn't really deserves.

Arisaka Ending = They don't want to spend money on V, thus going the easy way of offering to store them on Mikoshi or sending them off as a vegetable.

Johnnys Way / Fear the Reaper = Though V may have a romance (if you choose to) at their side they are still alone and stuck in their old ways, possibly blind to other options too as they are still the Lone Wolf. They have lots of money and connection but noone is really supporting their search and Night City is a dead end as Arisaka is left in ruins.

Panam = V is no longer alone, not the Lone Wolf caged in a city of neon anymore. Its one of the reasons Atlanta (Streetkid) or Arisaka Security (Corpo) didn't work, V had noone there either. They have a family now, a close and supporting friend (possibly their romance option at their side) plus all the nomands connections outside the city. Going back on Hellmans remark, here V has one of the 2 requirements to survive already, and from ingame commentaries and the Cyberpunk Wiki a very good bet for the 2nd would be the medical facilities in Sweden.
 
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This is where I believe DLC can come into play, where the possibilities of evading the Soulkiller entirely are explored for V.

[Tech ability 10] "Hey I can fix the briefcase!" --> DeShawn and T-bug die, but through the aid of some <cyberpunk science> they're able to create an autonomous host that V carries with them, letting them manifest Johnny as a hologram without it killing V. Bam. Everything stays roughly the same, Keanu is still with us, the player can opt to hear him out or ignore him. 90% of the game is still intact without making the whole thing feel horrid.

I honestly think both the 'no soulkiller in your head' and 'Silverhand + V are stronger together and no one dies' should be options in this story.

I haven't 100%ed the game, so maybe I am missing something, but there is a very noticable stats slot missing in the character management between 'intelligence' and 'cool'. It could be occupied by something called 'singularity' which would let you channel Silverhand, granting you some abilities appropriate to him without damaging you or surrendering full control.
 
[Tech ability 10] "Hey I can fix the briefcase!" --> DeShawn and T-bug die, but through the aid of some <cyberpunk science> they're able to create an autonomous host that V carries with them, letting them manifest Johnny as a hologram without it killing V. Bam. Everything stays roughly the same, Keanu is still with us, the player can opt to hear him out or ignore him. 90% of the game is still intact without making the whole thing feel horrid.

I honestly think both the 'no soulkiller in your head' and 'Silverhand + V are stronger together and no one dies' should be options in this story.

I haven't 100%ed the game, so maybe I am missing something, but there is a very noticable stats slot missing in the character management between 'intelligence' and 'cool'. It could be occupied by something called 'singularity' which would let you channel Silverhand, granting you some abilities appropriate to him without damaging you or surrendering full control.

I've heard people discuss the possibility of a sort of "merging" between Johnny and V, which I adore the idea of. Though perhaps I speak of partial ignorance, I could definitely envision a "branch" of the biochip's blueprints being more... compatible? A new development from Hellman (or an associate), resulting in less 'take-over' and more 'compatibility.'

I'd have chosen that option and been happy with it if it meant Real V survived and my prior actions and relations weren't made irrelevant by Fake V, let alone actual death. Johnny and V could still wreak havoc on Corpos that way if ideals align.

Edit: Mind if I include this in the polls also?
 
I asked in another thread but i'll ask here again.

Did anyone not allow johnny to take over V? I ask because in the menu screen you have 3 tarot cards with percentages at the bottom representing V, Johnny and Death (i think) and im wondering if they make a difference
 
I asked in another thread but i'll ask here again.

Did anyone not allow johnny to take over V? I ask because in the menu screen you have 3 tarot cards with percentages at the bottom representing V, Johnny and Death (i think) and im wondering if they make a difference

I'll still exercise caution, even though you're here.
In my experience, the % on the cards - with the exception of Merc - are increased through Main Story progression. I've currently done a reload, slept twice in bed to skip 2 days and have done side content with no increases to either Johnny or Death.

I haven't looked too into it, but personally I think it's a scare tactic. I'd save your game just in case, though.

Have fun!
 
It cool i finished the story or i'd a avoided the thread, it was just, and i maybe wrong hence im asking, Johnnys % didnt seem to go up until i let him take over V, so i was wondering if you never let him take over would it result in a different outcome, or on the opposite end if both can be at 100% whats the outcome then.

I finished the game 90/60/40 because he started being "nice" an i ended up letting him assume control (sorry my bad ) for a few missions that seemed to bump his % up by 10 after each mission, im just curious if that % stays as low as possible what happens, if anything
 
It cool i finished the story or i'd a avoided the thread, it was just, and i maybe wrong hence im asking, Johnnys % didnt seem to go up until i let him take over V, so i was wondering if you never let him take over would it result in a different outcome, or on the opposite end if both can be at 100% whats the outcome then.

I finished the game 90/60/40 because he started being "nice" an i ended up letting him assume control (sorry my bad ) for a few missions that seemed to bump his % up by 10 after each mission, im just curious if that % stays as low as possible what happens, if anything

Ah, okay. In my experience, the highest I've ever reached was 60%, not allowing him to take over at any point. Still managed to get him to like me, though, which is strange considering how much I didn't trust him.
 
I finished the game 90/25/40. I never let Johnny take over V's body under any circumstances. I honestly think the percentages of the second and third cards are due to missions and other content being cut from the game - possibly with the intention of adding it as DLC later.

My thoughts on the ending match the OP for this thread - I've been saying in various other threads that I hate the endings because V dies the moment Alt uses Soulkiller, everything else is irrelevant. Bottom line - V needs a way to kill Alt, who is the real villain of the story.
 
Ah, okay. In my experience, the highest I've ever reached was 60%, not allowing him to take over at any point. Still managed to get him to like me, though, which is strange considering how much I didn't trust him.

Yeah i was the same but i ended up doing his side quests but i guess i just looked and thought about it to much lol, am still thinking to much about it :)

Meh im starting my nomad PT so i'll just make her no like him an refuse all the time see what happens
 
I've heard people discuss the possibility of a sort of "merging" between Johnny and V, which I adore the idea of. Though perhaps I speak of partial ignorance, I could definitely envision a "branch" of the biochip's blueprints being more... compatible? A new development from Hellman (or an associate), resulting in less 'take-over' and more 'compatibility.'

I'd have chosen that option and been happy with it if it meant Real V survived and my prior actions and relations weren't made irrelevant by Fake V, let alone actual death. Johnny and V could still wreak havoc on Corpos that way if ideals align.

Edit: Mind if I include this in the polls also?
I'd rather have a seperation of V and Johnny. I would not consider a merging a good ending, it would be a solid "neutral". I would probably never take this option if it was introduced. I want an ending option where we can save the original V, and either kill Johnny (turning it into a supposed "Bad" ending) or seperating from him - which would be all the better (preferably the option for either).
 
I'd rather have a seperation of V and Johnny. I would not consider a merging a good ending, it would be a solid "neutral". I would probably never take this option if it was introduced. I want an ending option where we can save the original V, and either kill Johnny (turning it into a supposed "Bad" ending) or seperating from him - which would be all the better (preferably the option for either).

We'd all rather have them separated, but I think the classic Ghost in the Shell "two merge into one, becoming a new being" should still be an option too.
 
We'd all rather have them separated, but I think the classic Ghost in the Shell "two merge into one, becoming a new being" should still be an option too.

I'd rather have a seperation of V and Johnny. I would not consider a merging a good ending, it would be a solid "neutral". I would probably never take this option if it was introduced. I want an ending option where we can save the original V, and either kill Johnny (turning it into a supposed "Bad" ending) or seperating from him - which would be all the better (preferably the option for either).

Absolutely. After all, I think the outcome of what is "correct" largely depends on what the ideals of V are, or even the state V has found himself // herself in. If V is that desperate for survival, it makes sense, especially if V has something he // she really doesn't want to lose. Say, fear of never being able to see a loved one, for example. The risk of merging with Johnny at that point is suddenly a considerable price to pay.

But if the right cards are in hand, suddenly ousting Johnny seems much more appealing, should V be in the position to do so.

At the end of the day, the utter bleakness of the story's ending simply became too overbearing and gave us an extremely unsatisfactory ending.
 
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All this only piles on to the depressive endings, which largely make me unwilling to return to the game for a second round.

That's also my biggest gripe with the endings. They would be fine, even excellent, in a 10-20 hour on rail fps where you play through it relatively quickly, get your heartstrings pulled at and then move on to another game, but in a large open world RPG where you can easily spend 100 hours, build up your reputation and character and create relationships with various people these unsatisfying open endings are just bad and kill any desire to replay the game or play through DLCs, because in the end it's all meaningless. Just to make this clear, overall I really love the game, but this makes my frustration with the endings even larger. It's almost as if the writers wanted to engage in some philosophical flexing instead of crafting a rewarding and satisfying conclusion to their overall really interesting story. And the main problem is not even that they are bad/sad, there can be very satisfying and rewarding sad endings, but that all of them are just bleak and pointless.
 
That's also my biggest gripe with the endings. They would be fine, even excellent, in a 10-20 hour on rail fps where you play through it relatively quickly, get your heartstrings pulled at and then move on to another game, but in a large open world RPG where you can easily spend 100 hours, build up your reputation and character and create relationships with various people these unsatisfying open endings are just bad and kill any desire to replay the game or play through DLCs, because in the end it's all meaningless. Just to make this clear, overall I really love the game, but this makes my frustration with the endings even larger. It's almost as if the writers wanted to engage in some philosophical flexing instead of crafting a rewarding and satisfying conclusion to their overall really interesting story. And the main problem is not even that they are bad/sad, there can be very satisfying and rewarding sad endings, but that all of them are just bleak and pointless.

Exactly. My biggest concern is that the player's desire to survive is just blatantly ignored. It is death, no matter what.

I say this paragraph with upmost confidence that even if the "6 months to live" ending is one that is picked up on, it is still fundamentally bleak and pointless.
Again, our character is dead. The copy is an intruder of our authentic self, not our original character. That V has lost everything, which leaves us even more desolate and dejected. If the original V were to make a recovery from the Biochip's damage and we weren't killed by Alt to be replaced with a copy, that would have been a much more satisfying conclusion for all the arcs... Even finding a way to harmonize with the biochip so it doesn't kill us or take us over is satisfying - or better yet, the Biochip has left scars, but doesn't proceed to kill us. I could live with the idea of vomiting blood every day if it meant my prior relations, romances and efforts weren't erased. Thus, I believe DLC is necessary to remedy this for a more satisfying conclusion.

The best way I can describe it is to think of the word "Failure," by it's literal meaning: "Lack of success." We legitimately do not succeed in our one and only goal to survive - even Johnny's promise to help V survive fails to be upheld (should the relations between he and V come to understanding). In my experience, his promise was to help V survive the Biochip, as he even stated it directly conflicts with his morals and views on the world, namely Soulkiller. (Remember that aforementioned intruder to our authentic self?)
 
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I played a character across three games, watched her die at the end of the third game and then got the worst send off in video game history. :LOL:

I'm okay with V's and Cyberpunk's ending.

Sorry you didn't like it, but to each their own. Have a good day.
 
My gripe is that they made the game pretty much about V trying to hit it big and becoming rich, but then go a d kill him very fast making everything you do pretty effin irrelevant. The main story wanted to convey a message ? Fine, but it made the rest of the game irrelevant and and pretty much unreplayable. Considering this was supposed to have high replayability value, it was pretty big freakin mistake.
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I played a character across three games, watched her die at the end of the third game and then got the worst send off in video game history. :LOL:

I'm okay with V's and Cyberpunk's ending.

Sorry you didn't like it, but to each their own. Have a good day.
They killed main char in Mass Effect, Dragon Age, RDR, and even Shadow of the Colossus, but those games story were not all about the main charcter trying to survive.

I guess some people do have a twisted sense of taste, but like you said, to each their own.
 
I don't wanna sound like a jerk but CD Projekt Red telling us we get different endings is kinda like a joke now.

Different in what way exactly? The narration? V dies in all of them. Reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 clusterfuck. Game is great and all but sorry CD Projekt Red.
The fact i can't save V no matter what i do makes all endings the same. Pointless.

And before someone gets me wrong. Sure you should have Endings where V dies as Night City is that kind of place. But not all of them. If you tell me a game has 10 endings (just an example) all 10 of them have to end different. If all 10 of them end the same way you have 1 ending and 10 different narrations of it. But it stays the same ending. So Cyberpunk has 2 Endings. V dying and Johnny going into cyberspace or Johnny taking over and V dying (going into cyberspace is the same as dying)
And if you want to be specific it has only one ending. V dying. Cause the moment soulkiller activates V is dead and only his copy can either go to cyberspace and give johnny the body or the copy of V goes to the corpse of the original V and dying 6 months later. Awesome options.

But before you think i just bash this game.
I really love 99% the game.
The atmosphere, the quests, The fact you can romance ppl and that even some are out for you if you have the wrong gender (like in real life when u hit on a lesbian, fail and then become best buddys with her), the combat system, the quickhacks (I am the master of killing without being in the room) the cars and motorcycles you can buy, the street races, the MUSIC (GOD DAMN THE MUSIC IS AWESOME) the sheer visuals you get when u stand on a roof and just watch the city being alive is breathtaking and i dont have a graphic card that can do raytracing so it could look way better i assume which is mind blowing,
The fact that many different languages are spoken and you can understand them with translation and literally learn some words or sentences while playing the game. The interior of cars, The side quest with judy diving in a sunken city was awesome, The amount of time i spent just driving around the city, The fact you can operate yourself to an absolute machine (yet i wished some of us could have gone overboard like maelstrom ppl do)

Stuff i missed but should be in the game.
- A faction that hates implants of any kind and wants pure human flesh untouched.
- Why can't i remove body parts and replace them? You know like a metal arm or something?
- Maybe i am dumb but how do you do a wheelie with the motorcycle? For the love of god i can't figure it out.
- Tuning cars. This has to be added.
- Getting rich without glitching or abusing the system. Don't tell me the odds tell me how much i get before i do the job.
- Way more and i mean way more money making ways.
- Street races should not end with the questline i want to continue to race till someone dies. Hopefully not me.
- An Option to toggle walking on and off.
- More romance options for everyone.
- More endings for everyone. Idc if i need 100 hours+ to get a happy ending. Just give me one i can grind towards.
- A weapon craft system overhaul where i can switch or replace parts.
- More stuff to do in our apartments, I don't know why cant my GF/BF not come over?
- Night City is the city that never sleeps so where i can i do that party with drugs and stuff till my head explodes? Exactly.
- The option to get so hammered you wake up naked somewhere the next day having no idea what happend.

I could go on but the post is already way longer then i wanted to. Point is the game is great but there are many things missing and the endings need to be adressed. Cause after playing the game i feel depressed about the story and i never had a CD Projekt Red game where i didnt have multiple playthroughs. But as for now the motivation to play it again is literally 0.
 
It cool i finished the story or i'd a avoided the thread, it was just, and i maybe wrong hence im asking, Johnnys % didnt seem to go up until i let him take over V, so i was wondering if you never let him take over would it result in a different outcome, or on the opposite end if both can be at 100% whats the outcome then.

I finished the game 90/60/40 because he started being "nice" an i ended up letting him assume control (sorry my bad ) for a few missions that seemed to bump his % up by 10 after each mission, im just curious if that % stays as low as possible what happens, if anything
I personally assume that the Jhonny % is simply depending on how many side quests you did with Jhonny in the center.
 
And neither is Cyberpunk?
?
It absolutely is. Your whole objective is to survive, the moment you wake up after biting the bullet the only thing V asks and cares about is surviving, there are points in the beginning section where you can hear the fear in this voice.

Throughout the whole main story you are constantly doing favors for people in hopes of getting cured.
At the end the game seems to tell you that you've earned something along the way despite failing your only objective, though you never get to experience that past cutscene and some holo-calls. There is no redemption, that is reserved for Johnny. There is no revenge (that's done by Goro).
 
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