I wanted to post this to voice my thoughts on the story of Cyberpunk 2077, having completed the main storyline, as its ending has left me with a feeling perfectly described as “Lack of Satisfaction, Plenty of Depression.”
Disclaimers before reading:
[Firstly, the dejection and lack of satisfaction.]
This character you spend multiple hours pouring into, having formed bonds with various NPCs (platonic and romantic, more on this later), even going beyond to become the best Night City has ever seen... dies from the Cyberpunk equivalent of cancer. No matter what, V dies - sooner than you may think, too.
Discussions I’ve seen state how you have the choice of multiple endings which all end in the following...
During the raid at Mikoshi, V is struck with the Soulkiller. In the event you have forgotten, Soulkiller kills the host and creates an engram - a copy. In case you glossed over that, let me rephrase it: The original V is dead, completely gone. The V that comes back is a copy. Not to mention, this copy is also dying. So how is this bad?
Agency and Choice. V’s death entirely undoes any initiative taken towards survival. With the intention to survive the Biochip, all that V has striven to achieve has been made irrelevant and pointless - you are doomed to die regardless of your choice. All of this takes away agency and satisfaction, and in both of their wakes come dejection.
With the depressive conclusion, this is where things become opinionated, though still hold true in regards to the agency and narration.
[Now for Opinions.]
Taking a narrative perspective regarding relationships, let’s use Judy as an example, whom my character proceeded to romance. Though I will admit there is a tinge of personal bitterness here (you will soon understand why), V’s story and achievements are unwritten at Mikoshi, which I believe to be more important to emphasise than my own feelings on the matter.
Declaring their feelings for each other, suddenly things start to blossom between our two lovebirds - until...
[TL;DR & Conclusion (No, really, the detail above explains it much better.)]
All this only piles on to the depressive endings, which largely make me unwilling to return to the game for a second round. So how can this be changed? (Do also note the addendums below.)
I firmly believe the game would have benefited more from a timed biochip mechanic rather than static, scripted increases in percentage. The faster V acts, the less damaged the body, thus giving way to a better ending for our protagonist. I also believe the timed mechanic should function from a daily increase. In short: I believe the prospect of a full survival should be offered.
This fixes one problem, but another still remains: V dies regardless. Remember Soulkiller?
This is where I believe DLC can come into play, where the possibilities of evading the Soulkiller entirely are explored for V. How exactly this could be explored, I’m unsure. Perhaps the possibility of ousting the biochip’s damage in the same way the biochip began ousting our own identity? Nanites to eat away at Johnny’s damage after the biochip removal, the same way his nanites began to eat away at V’s brain? We know Arasaka has other areas they operate in, as is evident by Hanako’s questline.
I strongly believe the endings that are present in the game should remain present, though I oppose the idea of the only good ending being 6 months to live. Through future endeavours, grit & determination from player action, I believe the game’s story can and should have a brighter outcome for our V - and keeping the original V alive instead of Fake-V. As of now, it’s too depressive for a positive outlook as the prospect of survival is ultimately irrelevant, which leaves a longing bitterness in gameplay.
Edit: [Addendums & Highlights]
Bringing to light some posts I feel are worth considering. (Follow the links for full responses.)
My response to a post in another forum...
Posts by MeinChurro and casbynyss...
A post by Argast, along with my response...
A post by Animard...
Disclaimers before reading:
- First, I will begin with my major concerns which I feel go beyond the realm of opinion to certain degrees.
- I will talk about the depressive conclusion to the story, then the lack of satisfaction after.
- Note that I played through the game with the sole intention (narratively speaking) of surviving the biochip. Thus, the choice of becoming an immortalized engram is out of the question - equally as bad as death (you still die, more on that later).
- Later on, my thoughts will become more opinionated.
- The eventual conclusion, and perhaps some future options to consider.
- NO TOXICITY! If this thread gains traction, let’s not ruin it by having it locked by the moderators. Keep constructive, toxicity-free discussion flowing!
[Firstly, the dejection and lack of satisfaction.]
This character you spend multiple hours pouring into, having formed bonds with various NPCs (platonic and romantic, more on this later), even going beyond to become the best Night City has ever seen... dies from the Cyberpunk equivalent of cancer. No matter what, V dies - sooner than you may think, too.
Discussions I’ve seen state how you have the choice of multiple endings which all end in the following...
- Dying before Mikoshi,
- Dying at Mikoshi,
- Dying 6 months after Mikoshi.
During the raid at Mikoshi, V is struck with the Soulkiller. In the event you have forgotten, Soulkiller kills the host and creates an engram - a copy. In case you glossed over that, let me rephrase it: The original V is dead, completely gone. The V that comes back is a copy. Not to mention, this copy is also dying. So how is this bad?
Agency and Choice. V’s death entirely undoes any initiative taken towards survival. With the intention to survive the Biochip, all that V has striven to achieve has been made irrelevant and pointless - you are doomed to die regardless of your choice. All of this takes away agency and satisfaction, and in both of their wakes come dejection.
With the depressive conclusion, this is where things become opinionated, though still hold true in regards to the agency and narration.
[Now for Opinions.]
Taking a narrative perspective regarding relationships, let’s use Judy as an example, whom my character proceeded to romance. Though I will admit there is a tinge of personal bitterness here (you will soon understand why), V’s story and achievements are unwritten at Mikoshi, which I believe to be more important to emphasise than my own feelings on the matter.
Declaring their feelings for each other, suddenly things start to blossom between our two lovebirds - until...
- With the original V dead, that choice is made null. She will never meet her romance again.
- With the engram taking its place in V’s body (again, not the original V), Fake-V is dying in this relationship. No happy endings there.
- Six months later, that’s another death which not only applies to Judy, but also to other romance options. (Remember how not only the loss of Eve is on Judy’s conscience, but also the suffered backlash from Clouds? Yikes...)
[TL;DR & Conclusion (No, really, the detail above explains it much better.)]
All this only piles on to the depressive endings, which largely make me unwilling to return to the game for a second round. So how can this be changed? (Do also note the addendums below.)
I firmly believe the game would have benefited more from a timed biochip mechanic rather than static, scripted increases in percentage. The faster V acts, the less damaged the body, thus giving way to a better ending for our protagonist. I also believe the timed mechanic should function from a daily increase. In short: I believe the prospect of a full survival should be offered.
This fixes one problem, but another still remains: V dies regardless. Remember Soulkiller?
This is where I believe DLC can come into play, where the possibilities of evading the Soulkiller entirely are explored for V. How exactly this could be explored, I’m unsure. Perhaps the possibility of ousting the biochip’s damage in the same way the biochip began ousting our own identity? Nanites to eat away at Johnny’s damage after the biochip removal, the same way his nanites began to eat away at V’s brain? We know Arasaka has other areas they operate in, as is evident by Hanako’s questline.
I strongly believe the endings that are present in the game should remain present, though I oppose the idea of the only good ending being 6 months to live. Through future endeavours, grit & determination from player action, I believe the game’s story can and should have a brighter outcome for our V - and keeping the original V alive instead of Fake-V. As of now, it’s too depressive for a positive outlook as the prospect of survival is ultimately irrelevant, which leaves a longing bitterness in gameplay.
Edit: [Addendums & Highlights]
Bringing to light some posts I feel are worth considering. (Follow the links for full responses.)
My response to a post in another forum...
It just feels wrong to have not included at least one good ending. It doesn't necessarily have to be "happy" per se. I'll give some examples.
I would be 100% okay with either of the following options and consider them to be "good" in contrast to the other endings, though still retaining the "bittersweet" notion of it all.
- V manages to avoid dying to Soulkiller and was able to stop the neural degradation from the Biochip. This means there is no assimilation, no engram, and no eventual demise for our protagonist, but the original, authentic V we came to care for over the many hours we played as is still alive and well. However, the damage has taken it's toll on our body. We still suffer frequent glitches in our software and vomit blood on the daily. In short: We live, but we walk out with scars to bear.
- V manages to avoid dying to Soulkiller and has discovered the neural degradation can be prevented through a sort of "compatibility." V and Johnny find a way coexist with each other and live in the same body through some modification to the Biochip. It's still in you, but you're not dead. Your body is not wholly your own, but you are no longer dying and can live the rest of your life.
Posts by MeinChurro and casbynyss...
I'd rather have a seperation of V and Johnny. I would not consider a merging a good ending, it would be a solid "neutral". I would probably never take this option if it was introduced. I want an ending option where we can save the original V, and either kill Johnny (turning it into a supposed "Bad" ending) or seperating from him - which would be all the better (preferably the option for either).
We'd all rather have them separated, but I think the classic Ghost in the Shell "two merge into one, becoming a new being" should still be an option too.
A post by Argast, along with my response...
That's also my biggest gripe with the endings. They would be fine, even excellent, in a 10-20 hour on rail fps where you play through it relatively quickly, get your heartstrings pulled at and then move on to another game, but in a large open world RPG where you can easily spend 100 hours, build up your reputation and character and create relationships with various people these unsatisfying open endings are just bad and kill any desire to replay the game or play through DLCs, because in the end it's all meaningless.
I say this paragraph with upmost confidence that even if the "6 months to live" ending is one that is picked up on, it is still fundamentally bleak and pointless.
Again, our character is dead. The copy is an intruder of our authentic self, not our original character. That V has lost everything, which leaves us even more desolate and dejected.
A post by Animard...
First ending I did was Johnnys way and Judy leave at the end plus the, obvious, place of glory suicide in space were a really depressing ending of 50 hours of game time.
I do concure with most of what is said here but I have a slightly different thought about the Soulkiller.
It does kill V, yes, however Soulkiller is meant to copy the mind of the host to transfer it to the Relic / Mikoshi, or a new body ( yes, looking at you Saburo), which give it its name as it does not copy ones soul.
Now if we think in technical ways, its the similar as to copying an operating system to a new machine. To do so the running system has to be stopped, or suspended ( flatlined V ), to have access to one fixed state of it and not having to deal with ongoing thought processes or memories being formed.
If V decides to return to their body its not a new body, its still the original and their old mind / brain is still there, just suspended by the Soulkiller processes. Alt uploads the engram to the cybernatic part and may that what the nanites had affected, thus V knows what had transpired in Mikoshi, and reanimates the body again thus restarting the brain as well, just like the nanites did when Dex shot them.
Given this it does shine a different light on the endings based on what Hellman says during the Arisaka ending "Well, you don't have a whole team and facility dedicated to just you.", meaning that there would be a possible way to fix the damage of the Relic if they would want to.
So based on that the endings feel like:
Suicide = End of the line.
All Johnny take over = Basicly the same as suicide for V, not sure if I should feel happy for Johnny to get a new chance, one which he didn't really deserves.
Arisaka Ending = They don't want to spend money on V, thus going the easy way of offering to store them on Mikoshi or sending them off as a vegetable.
Johnnys Way / Fear the Reaper = Though V may have a romance (if you choose to) at their side they are still alone and stuck in their old ways, possibly blind to other options too as they are still the Lone Wolf. They have lots of money and connection but noone is really supporting their search and Night City is a dead end as Arisaka is left in ruins.
Panam = V is no longer alone, not the Lone Wolf caged in a city of neon anymore. Its one of the reasons Atlanta (Streetkid) or Arisaka Security (Corpo) didn't work, V had noone there either. They have a family now, a close and supporting friend (possibly their romance option at their side) plus all the nomands connections outside the city. Going back on Hellmans remark, here V has one of the 2 requirements to survive already, and from ingame commentaries and the Cyberpunk Wiki a very good bet for the 2nd would be the medical facilities in Sweden.
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