The open world is great, night city is fantastic and this dude would cut it.
This post proves the forums most of the time Is filled with little more than noise.
This post proves the forums most of the time Is filled with little more than noise.
Oi, hop off your high horse fam. Please illuminate us.
That guy is pretty damn passive toxic anyway ... but at least he promotes his good vibes :°)
That about sums it up. A very pretty but very shallow puddle.
I can imagine this game as much more modest experience, without vehicles and huge open world.
Vampire Bloodlines coming to my mind by Troika studio. Tiny open world, but with so much to do and so many super interesting NPC's.
Vampire Bloodlines coming to my mind by Troika studio. Tiny open world, but with so much to do and so many super interesting NPC's.
People expecting their game to be functional is not an unrealistic expectation.
The majority of the backlash Cd Projekt Red is getting is about the game not being in a playable state on base consoles.
Saints Row IV is the most directly comparable game that exists. It's an open world game set in a cyberpunk themed city with very similar gameplay overall. Mostly everything Cyberpunk 2077 does, SR4 did and more. SR4 has very detailed vehicle customization. It has super powers (which is the result of hacking the world) including wall running (a feature Cyberpunk was supposed to have). SR4 doesn't have randomized stats on gear or the kind of in-depth leveling system Cyberpunk has, which is the main difference in feature set. SR4 is, of course, a product of its time, so the graphic detail and city size are all much lower.... but it also had a much lower budget relatively speaking, and still managed to pull off a tremendous feature set with a shorter development cycle unless you give credit for re-using work from the previous three titles in the series. Taking the series as a whole though and including the work leading up to SR4, puts it in a very similar position to Cyberpunk 2077 from a development standpoint, which is why I love the comparison.
Cyberpunk 2077 is essentially an 8 year from the ground up game (first trailers were in 2013, but the major pre-production didn't start until 2016). Saints Row IV was developed in 2 years with the benefit of 7 years of previous titles to iterate on. Even if we say that whatever work was done tech-wise and for trailers prior to 2016 didn't count, that still puts the game on a 4 year dev schedule, with the benefit of prior experimentation and an much more developed industry overall. These days you can get off-the-shelf solutions to handle all kinds of problems that prior games had to solve for themselves. I think it's reasonable to expect a finished product in that time. And even if it's not, why should someone buy an unfinished product being sold as finished?
I'm not trying to be unfair here. Cyberpunk 2077 is a great game on PC with suitable hardware. I'm getting my $60 worth. It doesn't live up to the hype train that the marketing created, and there is a conspicuous absence of certain features like vehicle customization. I guess I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but the console crowd got burned hard on this one.... especially with the extreme scarcity of next-gen consoles on the market going into the holiday season.
I'm not sure what over ambition is there. It's clearly a fantastically written game with great visual design and world building, but the arguably little I've played on PC, regardless of my having experienced minimal glitches, commits many of the cardinal sins we the community of this forum have spoken against ever since 2012: we didn't want a looter shooter with marginal percentage increases and ugly armor that you have to wear because it's the one that gives you better stats. All the commitment CDPR seem to have put into different gameplay styles is slapping a magic "I can't believe it's nonlethal" weapon add-on, or press "the other button" in takedowns.
What happened to being able to print the character sheet? What is there in the game that makes it follow the RPG system Fuzion or Interlock exactly? Wasn't it enough cutting back the other two variables from past life (childhood hero and why you are in Night City) that the origin stories are so damn short and mostly irrelevant?
I know, I am aware that developers spend so much time and effort into something that they want you to experience it all, not to miss anything, but these guys gave us the Witcher trilogy, and regardless of how janky their initial releases were and how much they've patched them to near perfection (and I sure hope they do the same with Cyberpunk 2077), and those games made me fall in love with their reactive stories and the fact that I couldn't have a perfect run, that I was at least given a very solid illusion that it was my story and my choices. Even playing a preset character.
I stick to my guns and won't ask for a refund. The writers, designers, programmers, having crunched or not, have put a lot of work, and I said I'd be pleased with just a fun game that respects and truly shows the cyberpunk genre and feel and to a point, it does. But I'm frankly depressed that this is by no means what we were promised, that this couldn't even be predicted from the journos that saw the famous gameplay demo, that it's not even The Witcher 3, Deus Ex or Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines in terms of character development and roleplay (again, regardless of scope, scale and jank).
I can feel the passion that some of the team clearly put into it, and it shows through in moments that seem talk about the seduction of violence and mental illness through the character of Johnny Silverhand, the touch of nostalgia of a future past that never was and never will be... but that makes it all the more bittersweet, that the game whose teaser arguably kickstarted the resurgence of my favourite genre of fiction is probably going to have such negative effect in it (everyone was hyped for this, and as much as people loved Altered Carbon season 1, Alita and BR2049 - which everyone loved but nobody saw - ... but I fear nobody is going to want to touch anything that smells of cyberpunk with a ten foot pole in 30 years, and that makes me sad) and a company that I thought were champions in pro-consumer practices.
What happened to being able to print the character sheet? What is there in the game that makes it follow the RPG system Fuzion or Interlock exactly? Wasn't it enough cutting back the other two variables from past life (childhood hero and why you are in Night City) that the origin stories are so damn short and mostly irrelevant?
I know, I am aware that developers spend so much time and effort into something that they want you to experience it all, not to miss anything, but these guys gave us the Witcher trilogy, and regardless of how janky their initial releases were and how much they've patched them to near perfection (and I sure hope they do the same with Cyberpunk 2077), and those games made me fall in love with their reactive stories and the fact that I couldn't have a perfect run, that I was at least given a very solid illusion that it was my story and my choices. Even playing a preset character.
I stick to my guns and won't ask for a refund. The writers, designers, programmers, having crunched or not, have put a lot of work, and I said I'd be pleased with just a fun game that respects and truly shows the cyberpunk genre and feel and to a point, it does. But I'm frankly depressed that this is by no means what we were promised, that this couldn't even be predicted from the journos that saw the famous gameplay demo, that it's not even The Witcher 3, Deus Ex or Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines in terms of character development and roleplay (again, regardless of scope, scale and jank).
I can feel the passion that some of the team clearly put into it, and it shows through in moments that seem talk about the seduction of violence and mental illness through the character of Johnny Silverhand, the touch of nostalgia of a future past that never was and never will be... but that makes it all the more bittersweet, that the game whose teaser arguably kickstarted the resurgence of my favourite genre of fiction is probably going to have such negative effect in it (everyone was hyped for this, and as much as people loved Altered Carbon season 1, Alita and BR2049 - which everyone loved but nobody saw - ... but I fear nobody is going to want to touch anything that smells of cyberpunk with a ten foot pole in 30 years, and that makes me sad) and a company that I thought were champions in pro-consumer practices.
From what I am abstracting, I may be wrong, but in my opinion, those who work with games and i know a little, in general, AAA + titles take 12 years to complete. Unfortunately, this is the reality we have today. Perhaps, here I am going to speculate, next year we will have more news in the engines, but that is mere speculation. The UE has announced some new technologies, if that happens, the tendency will be for smaller studios to follow more or less the same steps.
The main thing that harmed CP77 is doing Witcher formula in a setting like that. While I expected it to be the case, because CDPR never really surprised anyone with game design ambition (maybe outside of Gwent), I see why many people are disappointed by a static non-reactive world. I'm suspecting it was just something they reverted to, because nothing else worked for them.
So, over-ambition definitely played it's part. They decided to go with a giant city without having clear idea how to make it work and what it's for to begin with. Instead of starting less ambitious, doing a few smaller areas similar to VTMB or The Witcher 2, and refining their systems there, they went with a big city and... They had to discard many ideas because in the process they probably figured out that they can't do anything complex/deep on this scope. And the only solution for them was to get back to Witcher formula and rely mostly on storytelling... That's why we have remains of various interesting ideas like driving and shooting, braindance and other, but they're few and far between because it was impossible to do them in scope of the whole city. Just rig it into a few quests.
I already warned people couple of years ago, that any interesting game design idea that they're proposing won't be in the game simply because fine-tuning something like that is an impossible on the scale of a large city, which is freely available for traversing. And especially it's hard to incorporate into a game, which heavily leans into cinematic storytelling.
So, over-ambition definitely played it's part. They decided to go with a giant city without having clear idea how to make it work and what it's for to begin with. Instead of starting less ambitious, doing a few smaller areas similar to VTMB or The Witcher 2, and refining their systems there, they went with a big city and... They had to discard many ideas because in the process they probably figured out that they can't do anything complex/deep on this scope. And the only solution for them was to get back to Witcher formula and rely mostly on storytelling... That's why we have remains of various interesting ideas like driving and shooting, braindance and other, but they're few and far between because it was impossible to do them in scope of the whole city. Just rig it into a few quests.
I already warned people couple of years ago, that any interesting game design idea that they're proposing won't be in the game simply because fine-tuning something like that is an impossible on the scale of a large city, which is freely available for traversing. And especially it's hard to incorporate into a game, which heavily leans into cinematic storytelling.
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I don't know if over ambition was the problem. Everything that was supposed to be in game, and people are complaining about, has been all done before. Cyberpunk wasn't doing anything new, even in 2018, it was just promising to combine all the coolest elements in other games in to one.
I mean wall running, vehicle customization, massive indept character creation, huge open world, decisions matter, none of that was new or original, it was just about moving it into a setting that wasn't fantasy and combining it all into a fantastic game.
So over ambition wasn't the problem, the tech, the knowledge, it's all out there, and been out there for years if not decades. I mean it's Mass effect meets Saints Row meets GTA meets Witcher.
Yet they managed to mess it up. Why? Money, straight out money. It cost too much to do it, so they chopped it down to maximize profits and the game and players be damned. They pulled a straight out Electronic Arts. Instead of making a great game, they made a game that was supposed to be good enough to maximize profits.
Sure it sucked on consoles, to CDPR management who cared. Returns will be a fraction of what they sold, and probably was already written in. The Sony thing hurt, but that'll be forgotten in a year, and lets be honest...
Gamers are stupid. We'll forgive and we'll forget. Oh it may be dredged up by some troglodyte during multiplayer, but 75% of the gamers out there, will buy the next CDPR game anyway. Mass Effect Andromeda showed that was possible. Slap a Bioware sticker on a game, and people will buy it. Hell the just teased Mass Effect 4 and gamers are going crazy, forget the fact that EA showed it's true colors by throwing a tantrum and abandoning Andromeda and forget how horribly Anthem is, it's Bioware and Mass Effect, gamers are going to go nuts and buy it.
I mean wall running, vehicle customization, massive indept character creation, huge open world, decisions matter, none of that was new or original, it was just about moving it into a setting that wasn't fantasy and combining it all into a fantastic game.
So over ambition wasn't the problem, the tech, the knowledge, it's all out there, and been out there for years if not decades. I mean it's Mass effect meets Saints Row meets GTA meets Witcher.
Yet they managed to mess it up. Why? Money, straight out money. It cost too much to do it, so they chopped it down to maximize profits and the game and players be damned. They pulled a straight out Electronic Arts. Instead of making a great game, they made a game that was supposed to be good enough to maximize profits.
Sure it sucked on consoles, to CDPR management who cared. Returns will be a fraction of what they sold, and probably was already written in. The Sony thing hurt, but that'll be forgotten in a year, and lets be honest...
Gamers are stupid. We'll forgive and we'll forget. Oh it may be dredged up by some troglodyte during multiplayer, but 75% of the gamers out there, will buy the next CDPR game anyway. Mass Effect Andromeda showed that was possible. Slap a Bioware sticker on a game, and people will buy it. Hell the just teased Mass Effect 4 and gamers are going crazy, forget the fact that EA showed it's true colors by throwing a tantrum and abandoning Andromeda and forget how horribly Anthem is, it's Bioware and Mass Effect, gamers are going to go nuts and buy it.
It is unrealistic to expect games on any platform these days to release without bugs nor have issues. Fallout 76 is a prime example of a broken release. Cyberpunk is not even close to Fallout 76 in that regard.
CDPR errored with the consoles, massively and should have realistically released the PC version only whilst continuing to work on the console versions or shifted development to the next gen consoles. However that still does not remove the fact that gamers themselves overhyped the game. As stated I personally never get hyped for games nor have expectations.
I own the game on PC and the only issue I have had so far was flatlining caused by Inputmapper. Removing Inputmapper and using DS4 native support (GOG Galaxy version) of Cyberpunk stopped the flatlining.
I have so far only encountered one bug and performance overall is very good.
nah. people ruined the game for them selves by watching to many trailers and reading to much on the game. pretty much kept feeding their expectations of the game. i had small expectations for the game. didnt watch tailers or read about the game. i quietly went on with my life waiting for cyberpunk to be released. now the game is out and i dont have complaints of where the extra stuff went.
people spoiled the game for them selves.
people spoiled the game for them selves.
I play on PC and I am not experiencing glitches.
My experience - one bug - flatlining caused by Inputmapper - performance overall is very good.
I also do not watch random YouTube videos because someone feels the need to post one.
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Yes, the tech is all out there, but that doesn't mean CDPR knows it. When I said ambition I don't mean ambition compared to the modern industry standard, I mean ambition compared to what CDPR was capable of. Even if the tech is all out there, a studio still needs to learn to make use of those techs by years of experience, and CDPR attempted to do so without any.
See I can't get on board with that comment because it's basically calling the actual developers incompetent. I can't believe that a professional developer working a AAA title for Europe's biggest gaming company wouldn't know tech and programming that's literally in some cases decades old. I mean how long has Bioware been putting in face sliders? Saints Row 2, with its vehicle customization came out in 2008.
CDPR's developers and coders are professionals, through and through, and I just can't and won't believe that they don't know how to code something that was being coded over a decade ago. That would make them incompetent and the developers, the employees, I don't believe they are.
The game is written on an updated version of the RED Engine used on The Witcher 3. RED Engine was developed by CDPR and you can rest assured they know their own tech. As a sidenote research is always useful.