Of course, i was just kidding). Obtaining the relic 1 through outright thievery or connections to the guy who knows the guy who can buy relic from discreet and greedy arasaka corp, probably some old acquantance of Corpo V or something.
for me it's clearly better than being consumed by Alt or getting trapped where neither your friends or your Johnny-controlled body could reach.
And why "forever" tho?Finding a new host would be a good thing for the DLC, for example...
I'm sure nothing of it will be done by CDPR tho...
I guess they gonna go with fixing that idiotic 6-month term.
As Judy said ...
walking talking corpses.
I dont give a damn about police spawns or if i stand naked on my bike sometimes.
I need a satisfying ending that let me want to spend more time in the world. And therefore an ng+ because lvling is annoyingly slow.
If they want me to buy addons or replay the game they have to fix the endings first.
Because i will not buy an addon that focusses on the first 6 month with jackie or stuff like that.
I know its a waste of time and i will have that in my head the whole time im playing.
Maybe another protagonist?
Nope sorry, im depressed enough of how it ended for the first one.
It needs to be something like:
2 Months later (And only 2 month i dont need that feeling of time is a factor again)
You sit in your apartment/ field camp/ space station and get an call from somebody who says, hey v hurry back to night city i might have an solution to your problem. (Maybe its another season fall/winter?)
Yah, i would buy that. Its later so they can bring back only charakters they want/ dont need to build too much stuff. Can remove the clusterf... of pointless gigs that takes up space for story stuff.
walking talking corpses.
I dont give a damn about police spawns or if i stand naked on my bike sometimes.
I need a satisfying ending that let me want to spend more time in the world. And therefore an ng+ because lvling is annoyingly slow.
If they want me to buy addons or replay the game they have to fix the endings first.
Because i will not buy an addon that focusses on the first 6 month with jackie or stuff like that.
I know its a waste of time and i will have that in my head the whole time im playing.
Maybe another protagonist?
Nope sorry, im depressed enough of how it ended for the first one.
It needs to be something like:
2 Months later (And only 2 month i dont need that feeling of time is a factor again)
You sit in your apartment/ field camp/ space station and get an call from somebody who says, hey v hurry back to night city i might have an solution to your problem. (Maybe its another season fall/winter?)
Yah, i would buy that. Its later so they can bring back only charakters they want/ dont need to build too much stuff. Can remove the clusterf... of pointless gigs that takes up space for story stuff.
One might argue that "depressing" and bad/sad endings stick with you, have more of an impact. Like I still remember MassEffect3 quite well, almost ten years later. But indeed I only played it once. And a lot of movies that ended sad ... I have no intention of watchign again, no matter how beautiful the story was...
Now of course ... you have to mention for fairness sake that without such a sad ending we wouldn't be here, and there would be no 6000 posts speaking about it...If "V" had just faded into the sunset with her girl/man and a wllet full of eddies, all we would do is complaining about the lack of certain features...
What makes a game-story worse is however how much we are self involved. It is much less "passive consuming", instead we have the illusion of being actively "writing" the story and be responsible for the fate of our protagonists, to some degree.
That makes such bleak endings without any achievable alternative much more depressing than if you watch a 2 hour movie or book. At least I think it is...
True, books or movies are something that we look as a, well, viewer, someone who follows the main characters story, while in game we are the character or connect to them emotionally.
Grim stories aren't necessarily bad. The Road is very popular, and it is relentlessly bleak. One problem is there still needs to be some kind of meaning for the darkness, which I don't think is evident in any of Cyberpunk's endings. The bigger problem is that this was supposed to be an RPG.
In New Vegas, you could end the game by taking over the Mojave with a literal empire of Roman cosplaying SLAVERS. And the ending is that they honor you. I don't see how this couldn't be considered a bleak ending, but it's satisfying if you wanted to be the bad guy. Where's the ending where you fuck over Johnny's idealism to side with a corp? Oh right it exists, but you get nothing and ruin all your relationships and still get diagnosed with dead. This game doesn't have RPG endings, it has punishment endings and reward endings.
The road, yes, it was really grim movie, but the ending actually was good for a movie. The father, supposedly main character, fullfiled goal.
I've been a bit out of the loop, and maybe the topic of discussion shifted somewhat, but I among many others here don't like endings not because they are sad per se but because they are incongruent with what was promised as well as the rest of the game.
I keep thinking about Takemura's message in nomad ending and it keeps eating at me just how maximalist and radical the endings are. why wouldn't a corpo fuck Yorinobu over, help good old Takemura and Hanako, get to Mikoshi and THEN leave with nomads? I like Takemura, I agree with his philosophy of changing Arasaka one step at a time. I also like Hanako and respect her humble yet brutal view of power and everybody's place in the world. helping them, refusing to be uploaded to the cloud and THEN leaving with Judy and nomads accomplishes absolutely the same narrative goal as both of those separate endings, only Yorinobu gets his ass kicked, Hanako and Takemura are okay and several of nomads don't have to sacrifice themselves. this way my lifepath would at least make a difference in more than just a couple of lines here and there.
I really don't understand how a game can be incredibly nuanced, personal, and deep in its sidequests yet so banal and obnoxious in its main story.
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After some time thinking and reading about Alt here in the chat I came to a conclusion... I will sum up some of my points here:
The main antagonist
The main antagonist is Alt Cunningham. Why ?
Johnny is a nuisance at the beginning, but slowly becomes an ally and companion throughout the story and even convinces us to keep our body in the end (coming back to that later on). He also sacrifices himself for us by going with Alt beyond the Blackwall.
Alt lost everything to Arasaka. Her freedom, her life. She gave them Soulkiller, one of their biggest achievements and business prospects. We team up with her, a rogue AI from beyond the Blackwall to free ourselves from Johnny and the certainty of death and fading away. That's the point she becomes the antagonist.
Alt misuses V's desperate situation and hope of being saved to get her revenge on Arasaka and raiding Mikoshi of it's data.
After getting into Mikoshi she destroys it, fusioning all engrams and knowledge into herself and becoming the most powerful AI in cyberspace. V's purpose as a tool has been fulfilled.
V's life expectancy
Alt didn't lie to V and Johnny. The 6 months are probably a valid guess. When we first meet Alt we were connected to the Voodoo Boys' mainframe. She didn't have control over us so she couldn't scan us or our brain. She didn't knew about the DNA reconfiguration progress, but she certainly knew that V was FUBAR already since she knows how the Relic works (probably).
Once we were jacked into Mikoshi, which was controlled by Alt then, she had full control over us and scanned our body and brain. DNA also is just data storage (literally, scientist already stored several terabytes on DNA in real life, look it up) so Alt was able to see the progress of the reconfiguration process begun by the Relics' data.
V's personality and body
This is the interesting part.
The game already showed us how irrelevant and disconnected the body becomes from the human because of Soulkiller and the personality constructs. Vs body can become Johnny Silverhand, Yoshinobu Arasaka can become Saburo Arasaka, people can store their personality in Mikoshi or otherwise powerful storages and can return to life in a different body.
The discussion about V being V or not is futile. The human being is defined by our personality, the mind, our soul, our behaviour. Once a human dies his soul leaves it's body and the body becomes an empty shell. People already stated over past years, decades, centuries that once their loved ones died the dead body was something different, but not the human anymore they once knew.
V's chance of being saved would be a new body his/her personality can claim as it's own like the Relic did with his/her body.
Either that or some other medical miracle which grants overwriting DNA.
The future story
My strong guess would be that a sequel will focus on Alt being too powerful and we have to stand up against her in some way.
The body theory would also give CDPR an excuse to force us making a new character model for the new game.. who knows.
Sorry for the wall of text, but that's something I had to write off my mind.
The main antagonist
The main antagonist is Alt Cunningham. Why ?
Johnny is a nuisance at the beginning, but slowly becomes an ally and companion throughout the story and even convinces us to keep our body in the end (coming back to that later on). He also sacrifices himself for us by going with Alt beyond the Blackwall.
Alt lost everything to Arasaka. Her freedom, her life. She gave them Soulkiller, one of their biggest achievements and business prospects. We team up with her, a rogue AI from beyond the Blackwall to free ourselves from Johnny and the certainty of death and fading away. That's the point she becomes the antagonist.
Alt misuses V's desperate situation and hope of being saved to get her revenge on Arasaka and raiding Mikoshi of it's data.
After getting into Mikoshi she destroys it, fusioning all engrams and knowledge into herself and becoming the most powerful AI in cyberspace. V's purpose as a tool has been fulfilled.
V's life expectancy
Alt didn't lie to V and Johnny. The 6 months are probably a valid guess. When we first meet Alt we were connected to the Voodoo Boys' mainframe. She didn't have control over us so she couldn't scan us or our brain. She didn't knew about the DNA reconfiguration progress, but she certainly knew that V was FUBAR already since she knows how the Relic works (probably).
Once we were jacked into Mikoshi, which was controlled by Alt then, she had full control over us and scanned our body and brain. DNA also is just data storage (literally, scientist already stored several terabytes on DNA in real life, look it up) so Alt was able to see the progress of the reconfiguration process begun by the Relics' data.
V's personality and body
This is the interesting part.
The game already showed us how irrelevant and disconnected the body becomes from the human because of Soulkiller and the personality constructs. Vs body can become Johnny Silverhand, Yoshinobu Arasaka can become Saburo Arasaka, people can store their personality in Mikoshi or otherwise powerful storages and can return to life in a different body.
The discussion about V being V or not is futile. The human being is defined by our personality, the mind, our soul, our behaviour. Once a human dies his soul leaves it's body and the body becomes an empty shell. People already stated over past years, decades, centuries that once their loved ones died the dead body was something different, but not the human anymore they once knew.
V's chance of being saved would be a new body his/her personality can claim as it's own like the Relic did with his/her body.
Either that or some other medical miracle which grants overwriting DNA.
The future story
My strong guess would be that a sequel will focus on Alt being too powerful and we have to stand up against her in some way.
The body theory would also give CDPR an excuse to force us making a new character model for the new game.. who knows.
Sorry for the wall of text, but that's something I had to write off my mind.
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Been a while, but thought I'd bring it up—to question if V is dead or not at all even when Soulkiller'd..
Would it be wise to say V is dead as an Engram, as a copy? Because the way it seems and by taking the real-world perspective into it - if we got our brains wiped and a 'copy' was put in its place, it would still be lights out for us because it's not us - we can only see from our own perspective. Game over, roll credits.
This doesn't happen in our games: V continues on as if nothing happened. We still see it from their perspective, and there's practically no differentiation from 'original V'.
My point is, if V was really dead then the game would have rolled credits the moment they get hit by it in Mikoshi. You cannot experience the conscious being of another, as was extrapolated by the element of the Twins during the boxing quest -- one brother overrode the mind of the other and the two bodies became one person, one mind - no distinct 'two identities' involved. One of them got his end-game credits.
It would have been the end of the game. Period.
Just a thought.
This is pretty much along the lines of what I expect is going to happen, and summed up the situation of V altogether—I'm anticipating that cloning technology is going to be involved in expansion/sequel content, you summed it up pretty well for me.
[Edit]: One thing that was brought up to me by a friend in the game development industry is that there is generally a rule of thumb involved concerning sequel content - particularly for something within the RPG element, and in this case one that involves multiple endings.
Usually, when a sequel or expansion is intended for the future - in the given case of continuity for a character - the ending is often left open-ended with a common, shared caveat between endings in order to build an opening for the next game (or as few as openings possible for continuity's sake). In this case, it's '6 months left to live', unless you opted to go into Cyberspace.
Would it be wise to say V is dead as an Engram, as a copy? Because the way it seems and by taking the real-world perspective into it - if we got our brains wiped and a 'copy' was put in its place, it would still be lights out for us because it's not us - we can only see from our own perspective. Game over, roll credits.
This doesn't happen in our games: V continues on as if nothing happened. We still see it from their perspective, and there's practically no differentiation from 'original V'.
My point is, if V was really dead then the game would have rolled credits the moment they get hit by it in Mikoshi. You cannot experience the conscious being of another, as was extrapolated by the element of the Twins during the boxing quest -- one brother overrode the mind of the other and the two bodies became one person, one mind - no distinct 'two identities' involved. One of them got his end-game credits.
It would have been the end of the game. Period.
Just a thought.
This is pretty much along the lines of what I expect is going to happen, and summed up the situation of V altogether—I'm anticipating that cloning technology is going to be involved in expansion/sequel content, you summed it up pretty well for me.
[Edit]: One thing that was brought up to me by a friend in the game development industry is that there is generally a rule of thumb involved concerning sequel content - particularly for something within the RPG element, and in this case one that involves multiple endings.
Usually, when a sequel or expansion is intended for the future - in the given case of continuity for a character - the ending is often left open-ended with a common, shared caveat between endings in order to build an opening for the next game (or as few as openings possible for continuity's sake). In this case, it's '6 months left to live', unless you opted to go into Cyberspace.
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A lot of people thought of idea about putting V in the new body. Yes, this is possible, but i just hope they wont go the "body jumping" route, like you can change i to any character you want, that completely disconnects player from the character you play.
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Lets hope that we get a good continuity.
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Again, just adding some goddamn storage media for engrams in the game would've been a much better decision imo. Just take V's engram with you. Johnny would have all the time to bring V back to some sort of life later, as now V's body isn't dying.
Well if after V become AI they added just one scene where V return to NC, by taking over FBC body like Makoto in GitS2, you have basically good ending. V become immortal.
Damn...
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Making main character immortal is pretty bad move at the start of its journey, unless they planning to not make any sequels.
Also making V an AI makes him/her loose any human emotions, just like Alt, which is not very good.
I guess the whole story before the endings wasn't grimdark enough for them. Kinslaying in arasaka, loosing a long-known friend of ours Jackie (ok, that was quite a hole in the plot), getting fucking shot, being put on the timer before you fucking die, all that shit and garbage on the streets... youi name it. but nope, wasn't enough
Or if you play female V, you will have a baby soon, but won´t live long enough to give birth
to them it's fine to be grimdark as long as you can see Panam/Judy naked
It doesn't even have to be put in any body or something imo (though it would be nice, i guess), just some sort of communication between the body and the engram.
Fuck, just make a fucking Delamain out of V's engram! Why not?
Some stupid-ass car could be an offline vessel for quite a capable AI, remember?
Or at least that old Delamain's mainframe is.