[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[arcsirc]

Mmm, people, I am just trying to figure out, how in several of the endings (when V stays in its body), V can potentially escape literal death after 6 months.
Due to V's body is DNA reconfigurated to fit for the Johnny's construct and will be rejecting V's consciousness through time.

What if.. it will be possible to find the second biochip (yeah, I know that chip was unique, but if that assumption will be revealed wrong, then it sounds legitimate, does it? please correct me=) ), similar to one with Johnny's construct, copy V's engram there, and insert it into the dying V.
And so, here goes the "magic" part, where the body again will be reconstructed into its primary state (well, kinda), thus the body and the mind will be fully compatible in the end.

In that case there will be two Vs in one head. Probably there could be some moral questions with original\copy problem. Like original V should die to let copy V live (and again something dark, lmao)

pretty sure in these circumstances there would be no such schism and merging would be inevitable, a repair installation if you will. J migrated towards a more V/host personality during the course of the game.

edit: god I remember the days I only watched this thread.

 

[trapromance]

Comparing it to Witcher 3 in the broad light isn't as good a comparison, after reading a few more posts - there were 3 games, which ultimately tied up with the endings brought in the very last Blood and Wine expansion. This game hasn't even gotten through its first iteration.

Added - yes, the story of the main game is complete and the add-ons wont be filler/conclusive to the overall plot—so while this excludes the expansions giving more light to the situation, it means that a sequel is likely to come and be a continuation of it instead - which is what the endings seem to be designed hooks for to begin with. The statement holds no baring on a sequel, or its implications, just that they have COMPLETED the first game.

[EDIT] The ending to the first Witcher seemed conclusive, yet we ended up getting a second, and then a third. It's way too soon to be saying V is done for - all we know is that V is on borrowed time, floating in Cyberspace somewhere or waiting to be 'woke up'. While expansions and DLC will bring more to the overall body of the main game, they will have no baring on what might occur in the sequel - V getting cured is too big a thing to be treated in an expansion now in hindsight of all things considered, especially when the overall implied notion is that we ultimately end up leaving Night City at some point. It is something that should be addressed in a sequel, and having expansions override what happens in the current endings would only complicate the linearity of the three paths we take in the endings.

 

[Schebberd]

I for one hope that they will make it so that you can fight on with V to regain your health and have hope for a good life.
I'm so so tired of this nihilistic (i hope that's the right term) idea of all you fight for is meaningless, you die and thats it.
No matter what you do, you can't win.

There is no point, to me, to buy DLC that just give you more things to do, but ultimately won't ever change the ending.
It might be cool for some, but real life is hard enough as it is, I don't enjoy having my heart broken in games as well.

It would be really great if there was a way to get to a ending thats not hopeless and makes all you fought for, useless.

Mass Effect 3 was enough of that for me.

That's just me though

Cheers

 

[tRYSIS3]

Well.. if they keep promises here it will be unusual in comparison to the promises of the main game

It's one thing to release an incomplete game, it's another thing completely to make people pay extra for it to be completed

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020

Comparing it to Witcher 3 in the broad light isn't as good a comparison, after reading a few more posts - there were 3 games, which ultimately tied up with the endings brought in the very last Blood and Wine expansion. This game hasn't even gotten through its first iteration.

Added - yes, the story of the main game is complete and the add-ons wont be filler/conclusive to the overall plot—so while this excludes the expansions giving more light to the situation, it means that a sequel is likely to come and be a continuation of it instead - which is what the endings seem to be designed hooks for to begin with.

Cyberpunk multiplayer is supposed to be a gta online type deal, there won't be a sequel anytime soon if ever

 

[Kashola_]

I for one hope that they will make it so that you can fight on with V to regain your health and have hope for a good life.
I'm so so tired of this nihilistic (i hope that's the right term) idea of all you fight for is meaningless, you die and thats it.
No matter what you do, you can't win.

There is no point, to me, to buy DLC that just give you more things to do, but ultimately won't ever change the ending.
It might be cool for some, but real life is hard enough as it is, I don't enjoy having my heart broken in games as well.

It would be really great if there was a way to get to a ending thats not hopeless and makes all you fought for, useless.

Mass Effect 3 was enough of that for me.

That's just me though

Cheers

Yeah, I was/am getting flashbacks to like 2012 when ME3 came out. That.. was not a great time.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020

It's one thing to release an incomplete game, it's another thing completely to make people pay extra for it to be completed

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020

Unless they release it for free.. good PR considering the launch. Wishful thinking though i'm sure.

 

[jahkin]

I for one hope that they will make it so that you can fight on with V to regain your health and have hope for a good life.
I'm so so tired of this nihilistic (i hope that's the right term) idea of all you fight for is meaningless, you die and thats it.
No matter what you do, you can't win.

There is no point, to me, to buy DLC that just give you more things to do, but ultimately won't ever change the ending.
It might be cool for some, but real life is hard enough as it is, I don't enjoy having my heart broken in games as well.

It would be really great if there was a way to get to a ending thats not hopeless and makes all you fought for, useless.

Mass Effect 3 was enough of that for me.

That's just me though

Cheers

I mean, even if they say story is complete - and then still tell a story-DLC taking place after the endings that ist new tory and plot without anything to do with Johnny...they wouldn't technically lie.

But yeah ... Ironically my hopes are higher at the moment that Mass Effect Legendary Edition and/or Mass Effect4 might actually "rectify" ME3 after 8 years than that CD Red adds DLC that are not just "filler quest" midgame ...

Though I wonder how much Dragon Age4 will break my heart then, hmm... cannot wait...

 

[NikolayMat]

It's one thing to release an incomplete game, it's another thing completely to make people pay extra for it to be completed

In that case, there should be CP2078 which will answer all the questions (I hope not ), like Witcher 3 gave explanations about Yennefer and first two games didn't explain clearly anything, afair

 

[Blaz1us]

Again, I cant help but agree with majority here... That was exactly the gamestar article I was refferring to few pages back.. but again I would like to say that I hope that was an interpretation 'error' ( as in no story was CUT from the base game ON purpose to make space for DLC, which would make sense given the open[towards future content save for suicide.. but yeah lets not talk about that] but non satisfactory endings). IF they wont make story DLC at the very least most of 'em would be half OK without timelimit, that would be the ideal given this 'path'.

Hell, Witcher , ME , and Dragon age all had 3 games to flesh out the world & char ending and conclusion.

And again, would like to remind people that this is a game, their IP , if it done and dusted, IMO does not paint a good portofolio, given that you cannot continue it.. nah that wont happen it needs to be profitable and sell, which is why fan service is a good idea. B&W was the icing on cake in Witcher 3.

Now again since ME comes up a lot for comparison, even if the ending came down to "colour" it changed the ending massively. Now 8 years later with the announcement of the new game what is happening ? Return to Shepard's world very probable . Andromeda & Ryder will never replace Shepard as fans clearly showed. This would happen to CP77 if a completely different game with new chars etc. was announced in the same universe, which wont happen for the above reasons, not atleast for a few years for sure.

 

[ZeroCompliance]

Created a forum account just because of this thread.

I have read some, not all of the posts, but one point seems to keep coming up all the time. The notion that the "real" Johnny and V died as soon as they were touched by Mikoshi/Soulkiller. I strongly disagree, because said notion neglects some of the core philosophical questions the Cyberpunk genre poses. Such as:

a) What does it mean to be a human being?
b) What actually is the soul?
c) Who am I and ... what exactly is this "I" I am refering to?

Does the body define you as a human being? Does it define you as a person? If yes, do you die a little bit more, each time you replace or modify a part of your body? Are you dead, if you swap out your complete body (Lizzy Wizzy)? Are you still you? Same for the "soul" or psyche. Is the "soul" your psyche? If you can copy your psyche to a chip and place this chip in another body, are you still you? Are you still alive? If yes - are you still you, if this psyche is influenced in part by an AI or algorythm? No? ... So, what about people who lost all or some of their memories? Does that mean, the person they were before the memory loss is ... dead now? Or partly dead? What does "partly dead" even mean? What if the memories come back? Alive again? Still you? ...

Many heavy questions Cyberpunk gives us to chew on, but that is the beauty of this sub genre. I know the writer(s) of the story considered them, because of the character Misty. Nearing the end, she tells us that people fear change, but that there is actually no need for this. We should only be wary of what we change INTO ...

Meaning, everything V experiences has an effect on him/her and leads to changes. We all change all the time, because of inner and outer influences. Sometimes these influences are big, sometimes they are very small, but in the end we are basically never the same person as before. However, we have a certain compass that makes us still recognizable the next day. Neither Johnny, nor V ever lost their compass ... That is why Johnny can easily be identified as Johnny (e.g by Rogue and Eurodyne) and V as V. Begs the question: ... Is it said compass which defines us as (the "real") us? ...

------------
Now to the actual topic. Am I satisfied with the endings? Hrm ... Let's dissect this ... From an artistical point of view, all of them are well written and executed. They are able to invoke strong emotions (obviously) and remain logical. Hooowever, ... from a gameplay point of view the selection is lacking big time. See, CDPR, if you create a game that lets us make choices, you also have to make sure these choices really matter in the end. Otherwise most of the players will develop a feeling of "betrayal", for lack of a better word. "So, what did I just do? Did I play a game that is clearly influenced by my own choices, or did CDPR just string me along with a cheap trick to reach an ending THEY wanted ...?"

In my opinion, this does not necessarily mean this game needs a happy end in the classical sense, but at least one ending that gives the player hope. The merging of Johnny and V was mentioned several times here. I agree, that this is a big missed opportunity. I honestly don't understand how you could not implement it. Everything in this game just screams MERGING! Another option that leaves some hope would be V's engram transfered to a bio chip. This at least would open up the possibility for a sequel of some sort, where V would have to go through a similar situation like Johnny - maybe even together with Johnny. Even if this sequel will never be made, at least the player can muse about it. "Hmm ... It's sad, but it's not the end!" The Arasaka ending also could have been a perfect springboard to a less bleak future, where V is healed, but not completely, so that she would have to deal with shortcomings in his/her motoric and cognitive functions - leading to a full live as a fixer at the Afterlive, because he/she cannot do merc work any longer.

I would have wished for at least one such ending, really. As it stands now, ... I, as a player, am not satisfied. Nothing against dark endings, but in a game with choices, I simply expect more ...

Neuroscience actually answers a lot of the questions you've posed (though, admittedly, not all.) Everything from being hugged as a child to traumatic brain injuries influences the development of the brain, encouraging activity in some lobes while discouraging activity in others. Neurological scans confirm this; even in identical twins, there are differences in how their brains function. People often cite nature versus nurture in a way that implies each is mutually exclusive when, in fact, each has a factor in determining who a person is and/or will become.

This is why I believe that choosing to let "Johnny" take over is more of a merging of "V" and "Johnny" than "V"'s actual death. Yes, the biochip overwrites "V"'s psyche, but in the end "Johnny" still doesn't act like the original Johnny Silverhand. I believe this is due to the fact that the original V's brain has already developed in a certain way. It processes information in a way that's different from OG Johnny, just like my brain processes information in a different way from, say, a serial killer. A serial killer could encounter someone who fits their preferred victim's MO and be inspired to hurt that person, whereas I could encounter that very same person and think that they were rather charming. Two brains, two different responses, all facilitated by the way each processes and reacts to stimuli.

OG Johnny's memories are there, but those memories weren't actually experienced, and thus couldn't have impacted the development of OG V's brain. Muscle memory, established neural pathways, information processing and retention, all of those are still being handled by a brain that was influenced by OG V's experiences, and thus each new experience will elicit a different response than if "Johnny" were still in OG Johnny's body. The player is neither OG V or OG Johnny when "Johnny" takes over. They're Johnny Silverhand's memories and personality, filtered through a brain cultivated by the choices and experiences of OG V.

 

[Simuxas]

Neuroscience actually answers a lot of the questions you've posed (though, admittedly, not all.) Everything from being hugged as a child to traumatic brain injuries influences the development of the brain, encouraging activity in some lobes while discouraging activity in others. Neurological scans confirm this; even in identical twins, there are differences in how their brains function. People often cite nature versus nurture in a way that implies each is mutually exclusive when, in fact, each has a factor in determining who a person is and/or will become.

This is why I believe that choosing to let "Johnny" take over is more of a merging of "V" and "Johnny" than "V"'s actual death. Yes, the biochip overwrites "V"'s psyche, but in the end "Johnny" still doesn't act like the original Johnny Silverhand. I believe this is due to the fact that the original V's brain has already developed in a certain way. It processes information in a way that's different from OG Johnny, just like my brain processes information in a different way from, say, a serial killer. A serial killer could encounter someone who fits their preferred victim's MO and be inspired to hurt that person, whereas I could encounter that very same person and think that they were rather charming. Two brains, two different responses, all facilitated by the way each processes and reacts to stimuli.

OG Johnny's memories are there, but those memories weren't actually experienced, and thus couldn't have impacted the development of OG V's brain. Muscle memory, established neural pathways, information processing and retention, all of those are still being handled by a brain that was influenced by OG V's experiences, and thus each new experience will elicit a different response than if "Johnny" were still in OG Johnny's body. The player is neither OG V or OG Johnny when "Johnny" takes over. They're Johnny Silverhand's memories and personality, filtered through a brain cultivated by the choices and experiences of OG V.

Issue is, V is pretty much dead once Johnny goes into the body. You get soulkilled once you enter mikoshi and basically brain gets wiped from everything and then only Johnny returns or V. So no, there is no merge.

 

[StarkHelsing]

Neuroscience actually answers a lot of the questions you've posed (though, admittedly, not all.) Everything from being hugged as a child to traumatic brain injuries influences the development of the brain, encouraging activity in some lobes while discouraging activity in others. Neurological scans confirm this; even in identical twins, there are differences in how their brains function. People often cite nature versus nurture in a way that implies each is mutually exclusive when, in fact, each has a factor in determining who a person is and/or will become.

This is why I believe that choosing to let "Johnny" take over is more of a merging of "V" and "Johnny" than "V"'s actual death. Yes, the biochip overwrites "V"'s psyche, but in the end "Johnny" still doesn't act like the original Johnny Silverhand. I believe this is due to the fact that the original V's brain has already developed in a certain way. It processes information in a way that's different from OG Johnny, just like my brain processes information in a different way from, say, a serial killer. A serial killer could encounter someone who fits their preferred victim's MO and be inspired to hurt that person, whereas I could encounter that very same person and think that they were rather charming. Two brains, two different responses, all facilitated by the way each processes and reacts to stimuli.

OG Johnny's memories are there, but those memories weren't actually experienced, and thus couldn't have impacted the development of OG V's brain. Muscle memory, established neural pathways, information processing and retention, all of those are still being handled by a brain that was influenced by OG V's experiences, and thus each new experience will elicit a different response than if "Johnny" were still in OG Johnny's body. The player is neither OG V or OG Johnny when "Johnny" takes over. They're Johnny Silverhand's memories and personality, filtered through a brain cultivated by the choices and experiences of OG V.

See, as someone who studied neuroscience at Uni, I do agree with this. The two have merged, there is no denying it. But I would argue this. Wouldn't the V that is SoulKilled as soon as they jack into Mikoshi a more complete version of the two combined? Considering it didn't just copy V, it would have copied Johnny as well. Everything Johnny has experienced and gone through has been shared between the two.

I think out of the two, this is probably the better ending as V still has control. Johnny did something horrendous, he killed a lot of innocent people more than we ever could. Johnny doesn't exactly deserve a second chance, but you can find it within yourself to learn from them and not go down that route. Just like Johnny learned from V.

The two are basically the same it's just 'who's fronting'. Johnny is just back in the subconscious, rather than a full front personality fighting for dominance.

Johnny at the front however seems like he's happy but yet not. He sounds well, so sad. He's lost everyone, and he's alone again. The one person he clicked with is now gone. There is no positivity left for him. In the grand scheme of things, how long can Johnny live with what he's done?

 

[trapromance]

See, as someone who studied neuroscience at Uni, I do agree with this. The two have merged, there is no denying it. But I would argue this. Wouldn't the V that is SoulKilled as soon as they jack into Mikoshi a more complete version of the two combined? Considering it didn't just copy V, it would have copied Johnny as well. Everything Johnny has experienced and gone through has been shared between the two.

I think out of the two, this is probably the better ending as V still has control. Johnny did something horrendous, he killed a lot of innocent people more than we ever could. Johnny doesn't exactly deserve a second chance, but you can find it within yourself to learn from them and not go down that route. Just like Johnny learned from V.

The two are basically the same it's just 'who's fronting'. Johnny is just back in the subconscious, rather than a full front personality fighting for dominance.

Johnny at the front however seems like he's happy but yet not. He sounds well, so sad. He's lost everyone, and he's alone again. The one person he clicked with is now gone. There is no positivity left for him. In the grand scheme of things, how long can Johnny live with what he's done?

That's actually softly inferred by the Zen Master, who says both V's own and Johnny's 'souls' belong to them - they're one and the same at that point.

All I can see from it is a possibility that Alt copied precisely what was 'V', creating a separate Engram of them in the process. I think there was some noting of it at some point in the game that's similar to Johnny's roots having dug in too deep that a 'wipe' or 'factory reset'/soulkilling of V was necessary in order to live. It's not exactly mentioned like that, but you get what I mean.

 

[StarkHelsing]

That's actually softly inferred by the Zen Master, who says both V's own and Johnny's 'souls' belong to them - they're one and the same at that point.

All I can see from it is a possibility that Alt copied precisely what was 'V', creating a separate Engram of them in the process. I think there was some noting of it at some point in the game that's similar to Johnny's roots having dug in too deep that a 'wipe' or 'factory reset'/soulkilling of V was necessary in order to live. It's not exactly mentioned like that, but you get what I mean.

I can't even begin to imagine the damage that alone could cause. If the memories of Johnny are there, the experiences and everything they've gone through. That pure entwining of everything that made them, well 'them'. Separating them sounds so damaging to the psyche, like more than before. Just emptiness...

 

[Guest 4506659]

The developers may as well of went for "colored" endings like Bioware did for all the satisfaction i got out of the ones i've experienced (the ones i've not played but researched sound just as depressing as the ones i have). The endings make it completely pointless to play on after finishing the main story since V's going to die anyhow, thanks "writers".

 

[Mikeindeepspace]

I enjoyed the Nomad ending.

 

[DRaptor-1]

releasing the missing part of the game as dlc would create a bigger fiasco

Well, if they add a post story dlc, I think it will add something good in the Game, something that is worth to play. And they will win back some of the player's trust they lost tho

 

[Simuxas]

Hopefully something will be done with endings and they wont go full Rockstar, forgetting SP and going full online money grab.

Also i have no idea how they gonna pull of the MP, the game is so unfinished, you can see on shadows how janky the animations are.

 

[Guest 4506659]

It's better than any of the others, but V still dies, playing after the main story is over is completely pointless.

 

[DROZD01]

Looking at the link from gamestar posted above - i pretty much lost all the hope i got for that project and the CDPR. Even though they say they are focused more on singleplayer content, those statements about multiplayer and microtransactions really says it all.

We did it guys - we all pretty much became V. Tried to, but didn't change shit.

 

[tRYSIS3]

Well, if they add a post story dlc, I think it will add something good in the Game, something that is worth to play. And they will win back some of the player's trust they lost tho

Not if it's paid