it thought it was something something AI tells you soul dies now.
What I meant was that the very fact of loading V's personality into cyber reality and loading it back into his body is not a murder or a substitute. It's the same V. I read here a lot of posts that V died, and in the endings - a copy of V.
Ending with Alt or 6 months is harder.
Cyber-V is undergoing a transformation, he is no longer the same V.
The endings where he is left to live for 6 months - an open final. Sad but not inevitable. V's death is not shown anywhere.
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This is a little different. It's about the Soulkiller.
that is completely my mistake, I confess I was a little trigger happy there with my response and didn't even properly read your post, i'm actually on your side in this particular argument and have made the case for it myself in the past.
The game makes a problem of it, and this is done during the conversation with Alt. There are two crucial information.
First that Soulkiller is killing a person (literally) and then copy it’s memory, and then they are uploaded on the biochip.
This is an entry to to classic trans humanism dilemma - it you could copy you while being would this be you or another person.
second - Alt says that this “changes everything”. This is what unnerve many people here.
Goro even says this - that engrams are not humans in the meaning of law.V.'s a guinea pig and gives Arasaka a chance to observe how the relic may interact with a wounded host. That's good for them. The R&D allowance may easily cope with that expense.
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Because either V. merges with Alt and bye bye V., or V. regains V.'s body and 6 month later, "bye bye V." the same.
Story wise it’s probably done so you will sign the papers. Hanako Is one of the most skill netrunners and only few who fully understand Soulkiller.
She is even capable to copy engrams, and probably also reprogram them.
So the main objective is to repogram V since story wise s/he manages to steal the biochip, survive the whole 2-3 act, defeat Oda and Smasher.
it would be cool to see the continuation of this ending. Dreaming time...
I personally would love to see a story about dealing with the Arasaka dilemma. Tbh that was what I was expecting after the brain surgery, really didn't expect the story to end there.
Ok, I get the point.
But again. If personality, in the opinion of the game, is just memory - what's the difference? It is still V's memory, returning to V's body. "File cannot be copied onto itself".
If the personality is something more, it is really a soul that can only be torn out of the body, which leads to death - the same conclusion. V's soul returns to V's body.
I have not seen any mention of the ability to copy "souls" in the game. Each "soul" is unique.
That is the issue. What Alt says contradicts the way the game treats the Soulkiller. And the game won't explain what Alt meant about everything changing after it. Because if we look how it's presented in the end, nothing has changed for V. So what was Alt refering to?
It seems that she is talking about the changes that have occurred to herself.
A personality torn out of the body and being in cyber reality for a long time changes forever.
That's also my impression. According to the shards and wiki, Soulkiller 1.0 (the commercialized version) just copies memories, Soulkiller 2.0 is more complex and might maintain/transfer the consciousness. Alt mentions returning V's consciousness to their body in Mikoshi, don't remember the exact line. Hellman of course is sceptic about it, but he didn't even think that Johnny's engram would work.
It's not just a matter of raw data, consciousness is a phenomenon, we know little about how it works and the ingame information is conflicting. I posted some other stuff about Soulkiller, linked it before but this thread is crazy active:
- Consciousness as a process
- Ingame symbolism
The fact that Soulkiller physically kills is not necessarily worrying in V's case, they're directly hooked up to Mikoshi and their brain is not "fried". You can be resuscitated from clinical death. Losing the soul might be literal or simply refer to engrams losing touch with reality once left in cyberspace for too long. This would fit the game's recurring theme about humanity's progressive, destructive detachment from nature (cyberpsychosis, zen master talk, final shard in The Star's ending etc).
That is a theory yes. But it's not explained properly. And the solution they were talking about did involve putting V back into his body right away. So in light of that, Alt's comment was not needed/irrelevant to V's situation.
mh... I played out several endings until now (still more or less my first playthrough though) and took several paths and I'd like to know if it's like that for everyone (I mean, we know the endings by now, but ... just because xD
I'd also like to adress the mails you get during the credits.
Since we're in the spoiler thread I won't separately mark this as spoiler, so beware
I had some voicemails that were kind of the same and didn't really change at all (because side content?)
- Rogue wanted me to tell Johnny something and wished good luck to us.
- River thanked me for helping him and the boy and started to become a weapons merchant (no better way to describe it xD)
- Kerry gave me the info that he will probably tour with Us Cracks and "cursed my absence" xD
- Peralez thanked me, said his wife was in cahoots with "them" and said she wanted to make him take "vitamins", he's not really able to prove it but he knows and wants our help.
- I think Mitch was kind of samey during all the endings (if I recall correctly)
So I'll try to give the endings a label
Suicide ending:
This one is particularly sad in my opinion, as is with suicides :/
The only "good" thing was, that Johnny and V were able to come to an agreement for this decision (even though he'd have done it otherwise) and both at least wanting to leave the world together
-> Judy was crushed, as she was with Eves death, crying
-> Panam was really furious and cussing you, for your selfishness etc
-> Vik was kind of "encouraged" by Misty to leave a Message for me fr the afterlife to be able to cope with the situation
-> Misty didn't give you a Mail
Nomad ending;
V takes her body (Judy romance/Panam Friendship/family) and attacks the Arasaka Tower with the Nomads through a tunnel to get to Mikoshi. Saul dies by the feet of Adam Smasher in the Bossfight.
- Riding off towards Tucsan and getting helped in Arizona, we drive off into the night through the desert~
- Judy finds her new home and the voicemail she sends us takes places while I cook breakfast for us
- Panam is leading the Aldecaldos, Mitch and Cassidy survived
- The voicemails are pretty positive, Vik wants us to come by again and the tarot cards of Misty are showing a good live in the wasteland and freedom awaits, she wishes us good luck.
V offers her body to Johnnys Engram and goes with Alt (gets freed/absorbed) (Johnny is pretty pissed during your choice)
-> Johnny ending (going with Steve, getting him a guitar and leaving NC with a bus etc)
-> Judy is depressed and leaves NC
-> Panam doesn't know why you don't answer and wishes us to take care
-> Vik didn't hear anything but wishes you to come by again
-> Misty is really worried and troubled because she sees you as not really alive nor dead
Arasaka ending:
In my Arasaka ending Saburos Engram took over Yorinobus body and came back to lead his corporation in a fresh body
V kind of got rid of Johnny and was "treated" on a Space-station and living your live in an endless hellish cycle of tests and always the same, going mad wanting to break out. In the meantime you are allowed to call important persons who ask you where the hell you are xD
You also get a glimpse of what is happening in NC through the news tv.
Hellman, which I saved in the mission before came to "my help" and offered me two choices:
"Join" Mikoshi and 'save my soul' or going back to earth with the little time we got left.
-> Getting into Mikoshi at this point you will be taken to a seat and then... nothingness.
-> when you choose to gain your 'freedom' you take your belongings and make your way towards the shuttle. It's not really shown, but it seems your time might have already run out and you die on your way.
-> The following voicemails are more on the sad/negative side and Mistys tarot cards are also kind of grim.
Johnny ending:
He rallies Rogue and companions to launch an impressive yet kind of plump attack onto the Arasaka tower to get into Mikoshi. Rogue dies by the feet of Adam Smasher.
-> When he decides to keep Vs body it goes to the Johnny ending (see above), but you can see the epilogie in the cyberspace from his perspective.
-> He decides to give V back her body and go with Alt (your alter ego V is pretty pissed during the choice)
You, V, are now the head of the Afterlife because of Rogues death and possibly go onto rampage and "impossible" missions. becoming a legend of NC because of the time you have left you want to go out with a bang. Living yours and Jackies dream from the beginning. Ah yeah, and you live together with Judy (bc female V) in a nice expensive penthouse. There you meet Mr Blue Eyes who offers you (maybe your last?) a job. Attacking the Space-Casino. And while you embark into Space and are on your way to this mission, it ends... (maybe dlc, maybe you die in this very moment)
The voicemails are mixed, on the negative side and Mistys Cards are rather grim
...........
So why did I wrote this and "wasted my time"? I don't really know, maybe I wanted to write it down somewhere, maybe I just wanted to get feedback if there might be anything else happening and compare "endings" so we get a better picture?! Something like that. Did I forget something, was anything wrong? Please correct me and/or have a good day
I'd also like to adress the mails you get during the credits.
Since we're in the spoiler thread I won't separately mark this as spoiler, so beware
I had some voicemails that were kind of the same and didn't really change at all (because side content?)
- Rogue wanted me to tell Johnny something and wished good luck to us.
- River thanked me for helping him and the boy and started to become a weapons merchant (no better way to describe it xD)
- Kerry gave me the info that he will probably tour with Us Cracks and "cursed my absence" xD
- Peralez thanked me, said his wife was in cahoots with "them" and said she wanted to make him take "vitamins", he's not really able to prove it but he knows and wants our help.
- I think Mitch was kind of samey during all the endings (if I recall correctly)
So I'll try to give the endings a label
Suicide ending:
This one is particularly sad in my opinion, as is with suicides :/
The only "good" thing was, that Johnny and V were able to come to an agreement for this decision (even though he'd have done it otherwise) and both at least wanting to leave the world together
-> Judy was crushed, as she was with Eves death, crying
-> Panam was really furious and cussing you, for your selfishness etc
-> Vik was kind of "encouraged" by Misty to leave a Message for me fr the afterlife to be able to cope with the situation
-> Misty didn't give you a Mail
Nomad ending;
V takes her body (Judy romance/Panam Friendship/family) and attacks the Arasaka Tower with the Nomads through a tunnel to get to Mikoshi. Saul dies by the feet of Adam Smasher in the Bossfight.
- Riding off towards Tucsan and getting helped in Arizona, we drive off into the night through the desert~
- Judy finds her new home and the voicemail she sends us takes places while I cook breakfast for us
- Panam is leading the Aldecaldos, Mitch and Cassidy survived
- The voicemails are pretty positive, Vik wants us to come by again and the tarot cards of Misty are showing a good live in the wasteland and freedom awaits, she wishes us good luck.
V offers her body to Johnnys Engram and goes with Alt (gets freed/absorbed) (Johnny is pretty pissed during your choice)
-> Johnny ending (going with Steve, getting him a guitar and leaving NC with a bus etc)
-> Judy is depressed and leaves NC
-> Panam doesn't know why you don't answer and wishes us to take care
-> Vik didn't hear anything but wishes you to come by again
-> Misty is really worried and troubled because she sees you as not really alive nor dead
Arasaka ending:
In my Arasaka ending Saburos Engram took over Yorinobus body and came back to lead his corporation in a fresh body
V kind of got rid of Johnny and was "treated" on a Space-station and living your live in an endless hellish cycle of tests and always the same, going mad wanting to break out. In the meantime you are allowed to call important persons who ask you where the hell you are xD
You also get a glimpse of what is happening in NC through the news tv.
Hellman, which I saved in the mission before came to "my help" and offered me two choices:
"Join" Mikoshi and 'save my soul' or going back to earth with the little time we got left.
-> Getting into Mikoshi at this point you will be taken to a seat and then... nothingness.
-> when you choose to gain your 'freedom' you take your belongings and make your way towards the shuttle. It's not really shown, but it seems your time might have already run out and you die on your way.
-> The following voicemails are more on the sad/negative side and Mistys tarot cards are also kind of grim.
Johnny ending:
He rallies Rogue and companions to launch an impressive yet kind of plump attack onto the Arasaka tower to get into Mikoshi. Rogue dies by the feet of Adam Smasher.
-> When he decides to keep Vs body it goes to the Johnny ending (see above), but you can see the epilogie in the cyberspace from his perspective.
-> He decides to give V back her body and go with Alt (your alter ego V is pretty pissed during the choice)
You, V, are now the head of the Afterlife because of Rogues death and possibly go onto rampage and "impossible" missions. becoming a legend of NC because of the time you have left you want to go out with a bang. Living yours and Jackies dream from the beginning. Ah yeah, and you live together with Judy (bc female V) in a nice expensive penthouse. There you meet Mr Blue Eyes who offers you (maybe your last?) a job. Attacking the Space-Casino. And while you embark into Space and are on your way to this mission, it ends... (maybe dlc, maybe you die in this very moment)
The voicemails are mixed, on the negative side and Mistys Cards are rather grim
...........
So why did I wrote this and "wasted my time"? I don't really know, maybe I wanted to write it down somewhere, maybe I just wanted to get feedback if there might be anything else happening and compare "endings" so we get a better picture?! Something like that. Did I forget something, was anything wrong? Please correct me and/or have a good day
Been thinking about the ending on and off -- suppose that's already a good indication that the game did something right.
Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.
Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.
Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.
Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.
Disagree. Post Relic the goal was to survive I'd say. Also you could play the game without killing anyone, unironically I had a mod that made all my weapons non lethal and played through half of it with it and didn't even notice. Would've been great say if it reflected on the ending or some consequence in any way
Oh yeah I also let Oda live, never seen him again apart from Smasher mentioning him once at the end.In almost any shooter rpg or game we kill people and do nasty stuff does not mean that ALL of the endings have to doom us I'd say
Disagree. Post Relic the goal was to survive I'd say. Also you could play the game without killing anyone, unironically I had a mod that made all my weapons non lethal and played through half of it with it and didn't even notice. Would've been great say if it reflected on the ending or some consequence in any way
In almost any shooter rpg or game we kill people and do nasty stuff does not mean that ALL of the endings have to doom us I'd say
I'm rather fickle on this. Sometimes I kill them, sometimes I let em live. also may depend on the occassion. And with this I mean the random npcs. Some may have luck, so I just reboot their system and knock them out this way, while the others brain explores
on the other hand, I also let Oda live. My assumption may be, if we would've been able to talk his interference out of him before, when we had the chance with Takemura, we might not have had to fight Oda at all. Just a thought. This was probably my hardest fight of them all, I have to confess.
Would've been a nice addition so we could'Ve gotten "more karma" on our side
So johnny with nuke in the city deserves happy ending huh? Besides it was your V, maybe mine killed only bad guys? Or when needed to? Well to me that legend thing is a little stretch, i tried to play my V as merc in the gray area, not a legend. And a quote from one of my favorites books and movies by the way
The problem i have with soulkiller that it is said it wipes brain cleanly. Then digitalised all of memories etc. It is no longer a biological machine, but artificial one. Can this transition occur without any loses? (Even alt says something along the lines "correcting errors" towards engram). Can this transition keep the "soul"?
If you say there is no soul, then 100 V in the same bodies, the same memories are still V?
What if there is the soul, are 100 V in the same bodies(Clones), with same memories, create one V?
I didnt kill him because Takemura asked so. It was a simple decision! I'd do anything for that man.I'm rather fickle on this. Sometimes I kill them, sometimes I let em live. also may depend on the occassion. And with this I mean the random npcs. Some may have luck, so I just reboot their system and knock them out this way, while the others brain explores
on the other hand, I also let Oda live. My assumption may be, if we would've been able to talk his interference out of him before, when we had the chance with Takemura, we might not have had to fight Oda at all. Just a thought. This was probably my hardest fight of them all, I have to confess.
Would've been a nice addition so we could'Ve gotten "more karma" on our side
I feel you! I swear I feel like my mind is trapped in the game until a new story dlc is released.I finished the game like 20 days ago and still can't sleep well over those endings
Edit: Maybe the Soulkiller was the game after all!
I finished the game like 20 days ago and still can't sleep well over those endings
I always read the plot/endings spoilers in the game i play because i dont want to end with bad ending on my first playthrough and then be sad. So when i found out there is no happyend - not gonna lie i felt huge disappointment. Im in loving/hating relationship with this game - there are some cool features and Night City is so beautiful yet game is unbearably cutted - wont be patched sadly.
...So what i did is ive just stopped progress in the main quest till we see dlcs... And theres nothing to do after clearing map and side missions/gigs. Im kinda sad too.
So this is summary of all my feelings when i saw all cutted content and endings which means no role playing for me except outfits -