Why Gigs in Cyberpunk feels like a serious downgrade from Witcher contracts...

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Fallout 2, 3 and NV
Yeah ... those were buggy. But this post is not about bugs. I'm sure there are hundreds of other threads about bugs in this forum.
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My take on this is, let them patch the game with systems that were cut from the game. Hopefully, that will give us more mission variety, gang reputation, property investment, business ownership, character/vehicle customization and so on.
Hopefully those are free DLCs
 
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So I have been playing Cyberpunk 2077 for nearly 120 hours since the release. I really enjoy certain parts of the game but I can't shake this feeling of the game been unfinished. Considering the quality of Witcher3 at launch, this game extremely dissapointed me. I didn't have unrealistic expectations like many other people. Instead the quality and quantity of Witcher 3 set my expectations.
One of those disappointing aspects is Gigs & Cyberpsychos. I adore Witcher 3 more than any other AAA game because it's attention to side quests like Witcher contracts. In those quests, you experience the same quality as the main quest with cutscenes, new locations & set pieces just like the main quest. However in Cyberpunk, there are Gigs and Cyberpsychos instead of Witcher contracts. These quests feel like a serious downgrade from Witcher 3. Most Gigs start by getting a call from a Fixer. Then instead of talking with a particular NPC & starting the quest in a natural way, Fixer gives us a huge exposition dump followed by more exposition in the journal. This feels completely against what Witcher did with most of the quests. Witcher 3 delivered exposition with dialogue from NPCs all over the map & sometimes reading letters that you loot. It was never robotic as a Fixer call & opening the journal. Also this system greatly reduces the emotional impact of those side stories. How Am I supposed to feel anything about a character that I only heard from a Fixer? No, I should be able to speak to the victim or his/her/their family before the quest to immerse myself in the story.
I don't know what exactly happened but this feel very Ubisoft-like. Maybe CDPR had to rush those side stuff to throw out the game in December.
Just like I said before I really enjoy the parts of this game. Quests like "Dream On" are 10/10. But I really don't wanna play these Gigs again in Cyberpunk immediately after finishing the game, like playing Witcher contracts in Witcher 3.

Aside from your expectations here, Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 are two different times. I mean you can use our real world as example. In Witcher is no Telephone and no messenger, so its of course nessessary for an npc to talk with you in person or send a messanger in person to talk with you, there is no way to send his recorded talking to you. How often do you visit a person and talk to her/him in person instead of picking up your telephone for a call?

I mean... technically you could send messagers to all of us so we meet and talk about this matter in person, instead you start this forum thread and we write about this in the internet. Dont you think a potential questgiver in The witcher 3 would use similar much more comfortable technology to instruct gerald of the quest if possible?
 
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Fallout NV was only made in 18months.
Cyberpunk 2077 was made in considerable more time.
I wonder if they changed the direction of the game halfway through just like Anthem. Jason Schreier really should do an article about this even though I don't like him.
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Aside from your expectations here, Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 are two different times. I mean you can use our real world as example. In Witcher is no Telephone and no messenger, so its of course nessessary for an npc to talk with you in person or send a messanger in person to talk with you, there is no way to send his recorded talking to you. How often do you visit a person and talk to her/him in person instead of picking up your telephone for a call?

I mean... technically you could send messagers to all of us so we meet and talk about this matter in person, instead you start this forum thread and we write about this in the internet. Dont you think a potential questgiver in The witcher 3 would use similar much more comfortable technology to instruct gerald of the quest if possible?
Valid argument there. But at least can we talk with the family or friends of Cyberpsychos before attacking him/her/they. Otherwise they just feel like another enemy to kill. Maybe for once, we don't attack them & make him surrender by talking. They introduced the idea of Cyberpsychosis but didn't eexplore it.
 
I think the problem with gigs is less their actual content, then how you are introduced to them.

First of all, Fixers are introduced poorly. I think the first Fixer I got a call from was Regina. I did not know who she was, why she was calling me and why she was all like "Hey V! My fav Merc! Do this and that for me, because reasons"...

This is especially jarring, because the game goes out of its way to say that Fixer relation is one of the most important things and you have this long talk with Dex as part of the Main Quest, just so you can get work from him... I think you should have had to meet every or most Fixers in person before they offer you Gigs. Youtuber "NeverKnowsBest" makes a few very good points about this:
(Warning almost 2 hours long)

The second major Problem is how you then get the gigs: You trigger a phonecall when you are near a Gig-marker on your map. You can't ignore the call and basically get an exposition dump by those fixers whether you want it or not (when you engage in Battle at least V cuts them short). It would be sooooo much more immersive, if for some of those quests you had to call the fixers and they gave you a mission at random.

Then, lastly, I think the game suffers from it's always on objective tracker, which leads you straight to the targets... Especially the "find something" or "steal something" missions would be so much more gratifying if you could just look for the bloody thing yourself and not just follow a marker (sometimes this is actually the case with a more generic "area of interest", but more often then not your led straight to your target).

Long story short: The gigs are actually great and not really inferior to the Witcher's side quests. They just need to be presented in a less robotic and more seamless fashion.

I agree, fixers could have been implemented better. The random calls and the fact that they ALL know your name right away just makes the whole mechanic rather...uninspired.

1. Fixers should be introduced gradually, as you work your way through NC Merc ranks. Low tier fixers could give you simple gigs and once you proved yourself, you get introduced to actual guys running things in the district. They would give you highly paid, dangerous and side-quest worthy jobs.

2. There should be some kind of faction system, with fixers being less likely to give you jobs or even becoming hostile if you work against their gangs or create mess in their districts.
 

Rudo_

Forum regular
Yeah ... those were buggy. But this post is not about bugs. I'm sure there are hundreds of other threads about bugs in this forum.
No, i meant that the side quest of those 3 are awesome, treated as main ones. Full of choices and based on which role you are playing
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Fallout NV was only made in 18months.
Cyberpunk 2077 was made in considerable more time.
[/QUOT
Fallout NV was only made in 18months.
Cyberpunk 2077 was made in considerable more time.
FNV in about 73938262829 times better game in every aspect than CP 77.
What i meant was about the side quest thing. Probably i didnt reply well.
 
No, i meant that the side quest of those 3 are awesome, treated as main ones. Full of choices and based on which role you are playing
Oh yeah. For sure. They didn't have beautiful cutscenes like Witcher 3 but lore & story wise they were really, really good.
 
I agree, fixers could have been implemented better. The random calls and the fact that they ALL know your name right away just makes the whole mechanic rather...uninspired.

1. Fixers should be introduced gradually, as you work your way through NC Merc ranks. Low tier fixers could give you simple gigs and once you proved yourself, you get introduced to actual guys running things in the district. They would give you highly paid, dangerous and side-quest worthy jobs.

Isn't this exactly what happens and why Rogue starts hiring you at the end? There actually IS a reputation system that does EXACTLY THIS and means you get high level missions only when you've made yourself famous.

2. There should be some kind of faction system, with fixers being less likely to give you jobs or even becoming hostile if you work against their gangs or create mess in their districts.

That would remove like 70% of the content in the game.
 
Isn't this exactly what happens and why Rogue starts hiring you at the end? There actually IS a reputation system that does EXACTLY THIS and means you get high level missions only when you've made yourself famous.

I didn't notice any of that. What I noticed though was that right after Dex mission, fixers started to call me like they all knew who I was right when I entered their districts while free roaming around the city. Didn't get the impression it's tied to anything else.
 
I didn't notice any of that. What I noticed though was that right after Dex mission, fixers started to call me like they all knew who I was right when I entered their districts while free roaming around the city. Didn't get the impression it's tied to anything else.

Yes, you get more higher paying and higher danger gigs the higher your Rep is.

Rogue, the Fixer of Fixers, does not hire you until you are massively famous and a proven quantity. Ditto other incredibly important people in the game like Chrissy Whizzy.
 
Isn't this exactly what happens and why Rogue starts hiring you at the end? There actually IS a reputation system that does EXACTLY THIS and means you get high level missions only when you've made yourself famous.



That would remove like 70% of the content in the game.
You seem like a smart guy. I honestly feel like you understand what people are talking about and you shoot down ideas just to demoralize people. Come on, man, we want to expand on the systems and themes in the game.
 
You seem like a smart guy. I honestly feel like you understand what people are talking about and you shoot down ideas just to demoralize people. Come on, man, we want to expand on the systems and themes in the game.

Allow me to apologize, I actually have a bunch of issues with the game. I sometimes act too defensively. I also agree with a large number of objections.

I'll do my best to dial it back and add my own suggestions.

I really liked the Side Gigs, though.
 
That would remove like 70% of the content in the game.

It could remove lower paid jobs but open up better paid. If you rise in the reputation for the Mox, the tiger claws might hate you more than they already hate any non tiger but the mox could give you better jobs instead.. while the tigers are always nice to slaughter on the streets anymore... and as long as we have the vodoo boys and the animals to kill, its all good, no?
 
It could remove lower paid jobs but open up better paid. If you rise in the reputation for the Mox, the tiger claws might hate you more than they already hate any non tiger but the mox could give you better jobs instead.. while the tigers are always nice to slaughter on the streets anymore... and as long as we have the vodoo boys and the animals to kill, its all good, no?

Maybe but what I really mean is there's like 300 Assaults and Crimes in Progress that take you up against every gang in the city multiple times.

I do wish we could do a Mox quest chain, though,

I wanted to be Dwight from Sin City.

Ways to Improve Side Gigs based on other people's suggestions

1. I feel like we need follow up to some of them. CYBERPSYCHO SIGHTINGS feels like it's building to something massive. You have taken down SEVENTEEN Cyberpsychos and that's in-universe something that would make you famous like the Master Chief. Regina King never follows up on that, though. It feels like they cut something like her publishing that cyberpsyshosis doesn't exist or she's found the cure for it.

You could also do something outright EVIL with it and have Regina King revealed to be selling all the captured cyberpsychos to Max-Tac as cannon fodder.

2. Regina King's former employee is just sitting in her office after you rescue him. What's the point? There should be more follow up to these sorts of quests.

3. If you finish all of the quests for Fixer, I feel like you should get a special quest related to said Fixer like either taking them out for a rival or something otherwise super-impressive.

* If you finish all of Wak's quests then she contacts you for a special quest that will have you assassinate the leaders of the Tyger Claws. They proceed to name her the new leader. You can maybe bring that up in Judy's quest and force them all to back down and name Judy leader of Clouds as an alternate ending.
* Mister Hands? He's an AI that takes over Pacifica's remaining Voodoo Boys or makes a deal with them if you don't slaughter them.
* The Padre then reveals that he is an actual priest and that he wanted to reform the Valentinos by taking out the worst of them. He's now going to turn himself into the cops.

4. Get the Goddamn Rides a different Quest Marker! Oh and also don't have them contact you about them. I don't need to be bugged about new cars by my crime bosses.

5. I'd love to be able to join some of the gangs as a quest chian, particularly the Mox. You can join the Aldecados but that's not the same.

6. It's weird that you can go to the Afterlife but there's no bulletine board of jobs or equivalent there. I feel like you should get some missions there.
 
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Maybe but what I really mean is there's like 300 Assaults and Crimes in Progress that take you up against every gang in the city multiple times.

I do wish we could do a Mox quest chain, though,

I wanted to be Dwight from Sin City.
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Ways to Improve Side Gigs

1. I feel like we need follow up to some of them. CYBERPSYCHO SIGHTINGS feels like it's building to something massive. You have taken down SEVENTEEN Cyberpsychos and that's in-universe something that would make you famous like the Master Chief. Regina King never follows up on that, though. It feels like they cut something like her publishing that cyberpsyshosis doesn't exist or she's found the cure for it.

You could also do something outright EVIL with it and have Regina King revealed to be selling all the captured cyberpsychos to Max-Tac as cannon fodder.

2. Regina King's former employee is just sitting in her office after you rescue him. What's the point? There should be more follow up to these sorts of quests.

3. If you finish all of the quests for Fixer, I feel like you should get a special quest related to said Fixer like either taking them out for a rival or something otherwise super-impressive. Like, for instance, if you finish all of Wak's quests then she contacts you for a special quest that will have you assassinate the leaders of the Tyger Claws. They proceed to name her the new leader. You can maybe bring that up in Judy's quest and force them all to back down and name Judy leader of Clouds as an alternate ending.

4. Get the Goddamn Rides a different Quest Marker! Oh and also don't have them contact you about them. I don't need to be bugged about new cars by my crime bosses.

5. I'd love to be able to join some of the gangs as a quest chian, particularly the Mox. You can join the Aldecados but that's not the same.

6. It's weird that you can go to the Afterlife but there's no bulletine board of jobs or equivalent there. I feel like you should get some missions there.
Also a Corpo questline. We never really explore the motivations of Militech or Biotechnica in the game.
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Maybe but what I really mean is there's like 300 Assaults and Crimes in Progress that take you up against every gang in the city multiple times.

I do wish we could do a Mox quest chain, though,

I wanted to be Dwight from Sin City.

Ways to Improve Side Gigs based on other people's suggestions

1. I feel like we need follow up to some of them. CYBERPSYCHO SIGHTINGS feels like it's building to something massive. You have taken down SEVENTEEN Cyberpsychos and that's in-universe something that would make you famous like the Master Chief. Regina King never follows up on that, though. It feels like they cut something like her publishing that cyberpsyshosis doesn't exist or she's found the cure for it.

You could also do something outright EVIL with it and have Regina King revealed to be selling all the captured cyberpsychos to Max-Tac as cannon fodder.

2. Regina King's former employee is just sitting in her office after you rescue him. What's the point? There should be more follow up to these sorts of quests.

3. If you finish all of the quests for Fixer, I feel like you should get a special quest related to said Fixer like either taking them out for a rival or something otherwise super-impressive. Like, for instance, if you finish all of Wak's quests then she contacts you for a special quest that will have you assassinate the leaders of the Tyger Claws. They proceed to name her the new leader. You can maybe bring that up in Judy's quest and force them all to back down and name Judy leader of Clouds as an alternate ending.

4. Get the Goddamn Rides a different Quest Marker! Oh and also don't have them contact you about them. I don't need to be bugged about new cars by my crime bosses.

5. I'd love to be able to join some of the gangs as a quest chian, particularly the Mox. You can join the Aldecados but that's not the same.

6. It's weird that you can go to the Afterlife but there's no bulletine board of jobs or equivalent there. I feel like you should get some missions there.
Weird thing is that they already fixed most of those issues in Blood & Wine. There were bigger payoffs for doing even rrandom white question marks like Wine Wars questline.
 
I wonder if they changed the direction of the game halfway through just like Anthem. Jason Schreier really should do an article about this even though I don't like him.

They did, most of the earlier designs of the game were scrapped around 2016 when making the jump from what was supposedly a 3rd person game ala Witcher to a 1st person one.
And given it's their very first game in 1st person, and a very ambitious one to say the least (given how many half baked features there are in the game, you can see how many things they wanted to put in), they probably spent a huge amount of time to experiment how the game was supposed to be flowing and feeling.
Just like Anthem they probably toyed around for a while, going back and forth between designs and features. They probably said many times to themselves things like : "Mantis blades ? Sounds cool to walk on walls thanks to them, but probably won't work for the best or will require a huge amount of work, so not a priority", "Subway ? Cool feature, but do we really need to spend that much time on an alternative way of transportation when we're already 4 years + in developement of a game we don't even have the story done entirely ?", "World interactivity ? Let's try to figure out how to get a decent gameplay loop into the game, those side activities and interactivity can be added later..." That can go on.

Until the investors decided they wanted some results and the pressure kept going to release a game which has been stuck in developement hell for so long. Just like Anthem.

What we get in the game is a sum of things that work on a basic level (gameplay loop, animations, assets, designs), mashed up with half baked remnants of features they tried to put in for a while but probably gave up on.
 
I don't think the game was even in development that long. I think it's been more or less confirmed that they stopped all production to do Witcher 3 and then stayed on that until Blood and Wine. So Cyberpunk 2077 was really only in development for like four years.
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According to the leak, there were a lot like an Underground city & a MAX TAC questline. Hopefully those will be added as free DLCs.

The Militech building is notably blocked off and they said they cut two whole questlines, possibly in addition to the MaxTac one.
 
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