Whilst it was known for a while now that there'd be no 3rd person mode, I feel very disappointed by the technical shortcuts CDPR made to make the game "work" from first person. We don't have working mirrors, like in shops (even if the 2019 demo showed this). We don't have working reflections when RTX is turned on. We don't have almost any 3rd person cutscenes (the one at the end doesn't really count).
The reason we don't have these things is because the character model animations are, essentially, unfinished. CDPR decided to skimp on work, and rather than creating TWO models (one being a fully rendered and animated character model for reflections and shadows, and a simplified model just for rendering arms / weapons in first-person) only created ONE 3D model and use that model exclusively for first-person AND 3rd person, twisting it unrealistically as needed to suit the first-person (ex. aiming down sights in video games would require unrealistic arm positions in real-life). This is why V's shadows look so bad, and why V is a vampire and never appears in reflective surfaces (and why it works in the one predefined mirror in the apartment - because the game then cheats and changes the 3d animations for that one moment). About the only thing they put some effort into is the photo mode which uses static poses to make things seem like they work fine (if you enter photo mode when aiming down sights that won't be the current pose in photo mode).
Two models should have been created with appropriate masks to control when which is visible to the camera and which gives reflections, but like so many other things about this game, this has been cut to meet a deadline.
The reason we don't have these things is because the character model animations are, essentially, unfinished. CDPR decided to skimp on work, and rather than creating TWO models (one being a fully rendered and animated character model for reflections and shadows, and a simplified model just for rendering arms / weapons in first-person) only created ONE 3D model and use that model exclusively for first-person AND 3rd person, twisting it unrealistically as needed to suit the first-person (ex. aiming down sights in video games would require unrealistic arm positions in real-life). This is why V's shadows look so bad, and why V is a vampire and never appears in reflective surfaces (and why it works in the one predefined mirror in the apartment - because the game then cheats and changes the 3d animations for that one moment). About the only thing they put some effort into is the photo mode which uses static poses to make things seem like they work fine (if you enter photo mode when aiming down sights that won't be the current pose in photo mode).
Two models should have been created with appropriate masks to control when which is visible to the camera and which gives reflections, but like so many other things about this game, this has been cut to meet a deadline.
Last edited:
Well...this game was touted as an RPG. And I can't think of a single RPG, where most of the players don't care about what they look like.
And, realistically, if the only time we get to see our character is in Photo Mode. Then why not just give us a 'Dressing Room' and delete all the clothing beyond the 'default' clothing V starts with? All those clothing vendors are pointless when you could have just given the players a 'picker' like they did for Stickers, Frames, Poses, Expressions, etc.
Might not seem like much, but it took dev time to make the NPCs, VA time to record lines, dev time to design the shop, dev time to program the 'GPS' pathing, dev time coding the 'store function', dev time to code the 'store UI'. Every second spent on this aspect of the game, was time they could have spent squashing bugs, and doing more VA lines.
Post automatically merged:
Battlefield and Destiny 2 would like a word with you.
((I'm sure other FPS games that are multiplayer; thus require proper rigging. But I've only played those two extensively to comment on.))
Sorry, what about those games? They do exactly what I wrote and have a fully functional 3D model for others to see, and then a first-person-only "body".
At no point do I write it's impossible to have a 3D model AND a first-person model - it's just that these models are SEPARATE. When viewing the game from first-person your "own" 3D model isn't shown to you (masking + optionally reflections) and is only used to generate shadows, while your own first-person view model for arms / body is shown to you exclusively.
How to know they have two models? Pick up a toy rifle (or a stick and pretend it's a rifle; or a real one if you have THAT lying around
). If you try to "aim down sights" you need to put it to your shoulder and tilt your head to the right / left, which is opposite of what happens in video games, where the weapon "moves" towards the camera centre. Try to "aim down sights" without tilting your head and you'll find that an impossible task. This is less notable with one-handed weapons like pistols, but if video games were to simulate real-life in this regard (hold out a pistol at arms length in front of you) then the pistol would be much more "in-front" than it is in any first-person game.Now consider what the game actually does with the 3D model when you aim down sights...
Once a weapon is drawn it's clear the game a has one-for-all model, and starts twisting it into unrealistic shapes so that it looks good ONLY if the camera is just in front of the eyes...
Last edited:
that list only proves my point. Non of this games are rpg (except Destiny), non of this games has decent fps mechanics (except Destiny). And I'm not a fan of Destiny, so CP77 is the only one that stand out !
All I'm saying is - Cyberpunk need 3rd person just like Witcher 3 need 1st person .
If they had done that. That means 3rd person work would have been done. Which their goal was not to do. They got what they wanted. A bad looking V shadow that anyone would criticize.
How to know they have two models? Pick up a toy rifle (or a stick and pretend it's a rifle; or a real one if you have THAT lying around
In general from what I play expecting a real head tilt in any game they call a RPG but is also has a lot of shooting (Fallout anybody and CP2077) it's just not going to happen, assumedly the games skelton as such and/or the actual animation can not do it?
I actually do shoot so i know where your coming from but I also see the 'easier' way they use to 'get the job done'. What really does annoy me is using the rifles the wrong way around to make the animation easier (apparently?) A hunting rifle fired in the expected right shoulder position sometimes has the bolt action on the wrong side and the case ejection, that I find way more annoying as that's real laziness. But that's because I do shoot so it's very noticable, on that thought I wish they could offer a left handed rifle animation, I know there are not a lot of us who would like that but it feels so weird shooting a rifle on the wrong side.
Just made me laugh thinking of showing where the actual rifle would be to look straight down the sights without the head tilt. It would be half in your head, so maybe a 3PP is not such a good idea, or they removed all real aiming and only used hip shots (Joke)
I assume the "joke" is only using hipfire, not the actual 3PP usage.
First, let me state that creating a first-person game without a proper 3D model IS possible, and plenty of games do just that. For example, Firewatch can serve as good and funny example:
Firewatch is a freak of nature in third-person
Firewatch, like many video games, is played entirely from a first-person perspective. And it turns out there is a very good reason that the game never
www.gamesradar.com
Now, if memory serves Firewatch doesn't actually render the main character's shadows (albeit please correct me if I'm wrong, I might remember wrong), which is why this aspect isn't an issue.
But that's an indie title. We'd expect something more from a big budget game like Cyberpunk. Developers should have created two working models - a regular 3rd person model with normal animations, just as if they were making a 3rd person game. That's the baseline for shadows and reflections. Next they create a second model, rendering only hands and torso with legs. This one can reuse animations from the proper 3rd person model, but animations don't need to be realistic and this model can definitely bend unnaturally as this model would be used only in first person. It's not that a head-tilt wouldn't be possible - it totally would! But it would feel weird and unnatural in a video game, and could cause a lot of motion sickness. And even for handguns (which you can just hold straight in front of you) this wouldn't look "right" in a video game - if you were to do that then the gun would look too small and be too far away from what is normally expected.
Next the two models' properties are set - 3rd person model casts shadows and reflections, 1-st person model does not. Additionally using "masks" (a mechanism that dictates when which 3D object is visible to the camera) they set up the visibility of both models - when in first-person you can't see the 3rd person model (reflections and shadows still work), while in 3rd person (car driving, cutscenes) the 1st person model is invisible. There's also an extra layer of fiddling where, say, the 3rd person model shouldn't cast shadows onto the 1st person model, but those are all properties that the engine should be able to set. Yes, this approach is still not 100% ideal and accurate, since you'd be able to see inaccuracies in reflections; when aiming down the sights of a rifle a reflection would show a head tilt that would be required, but the first-person camera would stay perfectly still. But this sort of inaccuracy would be completely ignorable by pretty much every player, and besides a realistic head-tilt it wouldn't be "solvable".
Now, granted, this does mean a bit of a performance impact - but it's NOT severe. Essentially you need to render an additional pair of hands and a torso (without the head). Granted, the game is already struggling hard on old-gen consoles, but this really isn't that big of an impact. And viola - you have a fully functional first person view AND the option to switch to 3rd person AND proper shadows AND reflections.
But... yeah, CDPR took shortcuts.
Last edited:
I would like the TPP. I do enjoy the FPP though, especially when walking around downtown. I feel like I’m in the middle of the city specifically when I look up!
If they add TPP in the future I’ll try it but the way it is now is awesome.
If they add TPP in the future I’ll try it but the way it is now is awesome.
I love third person to see how my character looks. Really, changing the looks, dressing up your toon, etc. but only being able to see them in inventory is lame.
I'll join to FPS fans... CP2077 is awesome with only 1st person view. Just like last two Deus Ex games. I'm absolutely okay with 3-d person view iin few cutscenes. THOUGH... i'd like mirrors and other reflective surfaces to always reflect my look, not just when i'll turn them on.
Maybe as option "mirrors always ON" in graphic settings.
Maybe as option "mirrors always ON" in graphic settings.
Take a look at your shadow when having a weapon equiped. And then proceed to pray to what ever gods there are, that we will never be able to watch that horror from 3rd person.
I agree, 3rd person or at least the option to switch between would have been pretty perfect. But its been known for quite some time now that this would be a FPS only.
The TPP mod available on nexus is improving week by week, and other than some minor bugs is now pretty good, including auto shift to FPP for combat and back; worth a look if you are (like me) a devotee of TPP in games
Third preson view TPW. while at the same time having FPW at this level of quallity is magical thinking.
You guis need to cull your expectaions and/or learn thing or two about how these things work. Starcitizen did this, yes but they are insane and have unlimited budget and time and possibly humans xD
FPW was good choice, it is artistic choice, part of the story telling, why can't u respect that?
You guis need to cull your expectaions and/or learn thing or two about how these things work. Starcitizen did this, yes but they are insane and have unlimited budget and time and possibly humans xD
FPW was good choice, it is artistic choice, part of the story telling, why can't u respect that?
But you can see the other players aim down sights on your screen. That's why I'm thinking they don't have a separate model...they don't need one because they still have to animate the "aim down" right for others to see.
Post automatically merged:
Every single one of those are RPGs. I even went and made sure they had 3rd person shooting.
All I'm saying is CP2077 should have had both view options. Besides, they are going to have to do it anyways as they plan to have multiplayer. Yes, it's touted a separate project (so probably a separate game). But there is ZERO chance they won't 'asset reuse' to speed up development.
And that reminds me of another RPG with 3rd person shooting; Mass Effect.
Last edited:
I totally agree were the game type makes it possible, all games IMO should offer both 1PP and 3PP. (more sales less arguments, good for both sides)
Back to the multiplayer, seeing the other players as 3rd person does not automatically mean 'you' have to also see yourself in 3rd person as well? I'd again say that both should be offered but as an example from my perspective I never play multiplayer in 3PP if 1PP is an option.
I would not actually buy a 3PP only multiplayer, that's a couple of my least liked aspects of gaming right there.
I suppose, just seems like it'd be extra dev work to make a separate model; dev work that is already being pressured to "hurry up and release [so we can report massive profit this quarter]".
I can imagine them being able do the aim animation properly with the 'first person model', but just make it so the camera doesn't change rotate slightly. As your camera (aka eyesight) does when you 'aim down sights' on like a rifle; that slight head tilt.
Then again. If studios working for places like EA can take the time to make a 1st and 3rd person model, while being pressured to make 'keyed' release times and working on the next iteration.
...why couldn't CDPR. Like they've shown they can do 3rd person. So, if the 1st person was giving them trouble. Meaning they didn't have time to do both modes...why not just scrap it and say it'll be 3rd person.