Thoughts about my sadness and disappoitment with the quality of this story that I am taking too personally

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The fact that Fallout NV has more player choices and freedom inside the story to influence the world around is you just.... i dont know.... horrible. I mean how can a game from 2010 do the story and RPG part way better? To me this entire Cyberpunk drama in one sentence is this: "WTF HAPPEND???"

Remember, Fallout New Vegas was developed in its entireity 18 months

I wanted to do the Panam one because as you said it's clearly the better one especially since she has a link to the main story.... But apparently the developpers decided that if players choosed to play a women they couldn't be happy. At first i had the same mindset as you. I enjoyed the story but then everything fell apart because of this romance issue that affected my ending and now i'm just too dissapointed to even continue to play.

For me when it all fell apart was immediatly after Act 1, the Diner scene with Takemura was when it hit me.
 
Man you can't do CDP dirty like that xD
somehow 10 years ago Obsidian Employees were treated more ethically with less crunch than CDPR did to their employees, and were able to make a game that had meaningful choices in it that vastly changed the world, narrative, and endings. I understand how good you might think a story is is entirely subjective...but its not subjective at all to say your character in this game does not get any meaningful choices as was showcased. Obsidian was able to make a branching story with meaningful narrative shifting changes in less than 2 years. Allegedly CDPR was developing CP2077 at this time too, however we got a story on rails with less influence than most games that DON'T try to sell themselves as being choice driven.

CDPR is the one who did US dirty.
 
The fact that Fallout NV has more player choices and freedom inside the story to influence the world around is you just.... i dont know.... horrible. I mean how can a game from 2010 do the story and RPG part way better? To me this entire Cyberpunk drama in one sentence is this: "WTF HAPPEND???"

A lot has advanced since 2010 but storytelling really hasn't. There's a lot to criticize CDPR for, but not coming close to Obsidian isn't one of them, honestly 99% of games out there don't come close.
 
A lot has advanced since 2010 but storytelling really hasn't. There's a lot to criticize CDPR for, but not coming close to Obsidian isn't one of them, honestly 99% of games out there don't come close.
to be clear: We aren't talking about the subjective quality of the the narrative in this case. We are talking about how the narrative is unable to be changed in meaningful ways, when FNV objectively can be, and that is a game from 10 years ago developed in fractions of the time.
 
to be clear: We aren't talking about the subjective quality of the the narrative in this case. We are talking about how the narrative is unable to be changed in meaningful ways, when FNV objectively can be, and that is a game from 10 years ago developed in fractions of the time.

Yeah I understand 100% but to me not one game has come close to the level of FNV when it comes to narrative impact. I said in some other thread that you can literally kill every single NPC in FNV and kill 0 NPCs and everything in-between and still beat the game and get a meaningful ending.

I'm fine with CDPR not being on this level because honestly no other game has. FO 4 tries but falls flat on its face, so does Skyrim. I dunno why, but apparently it seems very hard to pull off.
 
Yeah I understand 100% but to me not one game has come close to the level of FNV when it comes to narrative impact. I said in some other thread that you can literally kill every single NPC in FNV and kill 0 NPCs and everything in-between and still beat the game and get a meaningful ending.

I'm fine with CDPR not being on this level because honestly no other game has. FO 4 tries but falls flat on its face, so does Skyrim. I dunno why, but apparently it seems very hard to pull off.
yeah, most of us were rightfully expecting though something at least as dynamic as FNV, as per their marketing and statements before release that we were not retracted or clarified to my knowledge. This is more like an open world Ubisoft game, which I have been burnt out on in the past decade. In my opinion there is the same if not less choice in CP2077 than even Far Cry 3.
 
Larian.


I really hope they don't drop the baldurs gate 3 ball.

Getting the community involved in early access and being responsive and open with communication is a good start for Larian... They are taking a very open approach to BG3 development a much different strategy than CDPR chose.

So far so good with BG3 in my opinion. 👍
 
A lot has advanced since 2010 but storytelling really hasn't. There's a lot to criticize CDPR for, but not coming close to Obsidian isn't one of them, honestly 99% of games out there don't come close.

I disagree completely. Storytelling in Dragon Age Origins was great. Witcher 3 was even better and could be compared to New Vegas. Not on par but close. Cyberpunk 2077 is however linear and the entire story can literally not be influenced. Nothing you do matters so calling this an RPG is a lie. And Considering the choices you had alone in side quests in Witcher 3 compared to what you can influence in Cyberpunk..... well. You literally had more options and influence in side quests of Witcher 3 then in the main story of Cyberpunk. Thats a no go in my book.
 
I haven't finished the game yet to judge, but the moment I heard complaints that the story of the Witcher 3 was too long, I feared that the day of good taste in RPG narrative was over! People fail to realize that what made the Witcher series great wasn't the gameplay (Witcher 1 gameplay was mediocre). It wasn't its graphics (up until Witcher 3, it wasn't top of the line anyway). It was always the setting and the narrative! The Witcher games had engaging and satisfying main plots as well as a lot of great side plots. CDPR never skimped on that.
I have to finish the story of Cyberpunk at least once to give my verdict, but when they announced the story of Cyberpunk was shorter even before release, I honestly felt disappointed.

If CDPR actually listened to those complaints, as it seems they may have, then shame on them. They have no business making RPGs.

This story was too short, no way around that.
 
I wanted to do the Panam one because as you said it's clearly the better one especially since she has a link to the main story.... But apparently the developpers decided that if players choosed to play a women they couldn't be happy. At first i had the same mindset as you. I enjoyed the story but then everything fell apart because of this romance issue that affected my ending and now i'm just too dissapointed to even continue to play.

Well if it makes you feel any better male characters can't romance Judy who is just as good in my opinion. I'll probably give it a second playthrough.

But even if you played a female ending you still could have gotten a good ending though right?
 
Well if it makes you feel any better male characters can't romance Judy who is just as good in my opinion. I'll probably give it a second playthrough.

But even if you played a female ending you still could have gotten a good ending though right?
Yes you can still have the ending, although "good" is subjective. And as you said, in your opinion the romance option is as good but I don't feel that way. Anyway that's fine, i'm being refunded so :shrug:
The options and choices they went with make it so that not everyone will enjoy how the story unfolds. I think that's why we see some many different opinions about the story.
 
All they said that he sidequests will make up for the main story's lenght. Which imo they didn't. Especially since the main story encourages you to ignore side quests due to the false sense of urgency.
I am 60 hours in and have not felt the "urgency" you have experienced. But the side quests are really better than the main story for me. I still like the main story. You might have loved the main quests more and kept on being lead down the main questlines, which is fine.
 
All they said that he sidequests will make up for the main story's lenght. Which imo they didn't. Especially since the main story encourages you to ignore side quests due to the false sense of urgency.

Oh come on! How long have you been playing games? The 'Urgent' main quest line mission is always the last thing you do when your ready to move on with it.
 
Larian.


I really hope they don't drop the baldurs gate 3 ball.

I've played the early access version of BG3 to finish and what I can say right now is they have a LOT of work to do. Compared to the Divinity original Sin II early access there are a ton more issues.
 
Oh come on! How long have you been playing games? The 'Urgent' main quest line mission is always the last thing you do when your ready to move on with it.
Yes to this. Can anyone name a game where if you take your time in a game. The character dies, save file is deleted, and you must play over. Anyone. Games do not force you to play the story at breakneck pace. That is a falsehood. You can play any game at any pace you want. Arthur does not die if you sit in RDR2 for 40 hours. Before you finish the boss fight. Zelda waits 100 years for Link. While you goof around and cook food. You do not want a game that realistically reflects this. Imagine taking too long in a boss fight. Oh, V dies, too bad. Restart the game please.
 
Yes to this. Can anyone name a game where if you take your time in a game. The character dies, save file is deleted, and you must play over. Anyone. Games do not force you to play the story at breakneck pace. That is a falsehood. You can play any game at any pace you want. Arthur does not die if you sit in RDR2 for 40 hours. Before you finish the boss fight. Zelda waits 100 years for Link. While you goof around and cook food. You do not want a game that realistically reflects this. Imagine taking too long in a boss fight. Oh, V dies, too bad. Restart the game please.

I know a game where you get to choose to get all your progression, save data deleted to basically just help someone else

Probably one of the best, most emotional experiences i personally have had in gaming which is ofc Neir Automata
 
I was very moved by the story of Witcher 3, and I loved Geralt. To me W3 story was about the personification of chaos and entropy, and The Wild Hunt was a negative manifestation of the fight against time moving everything forward into a state of non existence and decay. At its very root, Ciri was a messiah like figure, who had the power to do something at a point in time that was so far or long away from the people she cared about and was motivated by. Her actions or self sacrifice transcended space and time and was a selfless act that benefited people who would never know of her and that she would never know. It was very hard to let Geralt and Ciri go after Witcher 3. However the whole point of the story (to me) is at its root, its about the actions of people who are healthily or unhealthily coping with the unstoppable passage of time.

I know at first glance it might sound over dramatic, but stories have been one of the most important parts of human culture, society, and life, In many cultures, stories WERE more important than anything else, and the people who could tell them were some of the most important people. Like Homer, Herodotus, Plato, and the countless other ancient figures that we only know about because they told stories, and that we only know about their ancient world and history from their stories. This is a sentiment I rightfully thought the executives and founders at CDPR understood. We had years of marketing and statements from high level CDPR staff promising another great narrative with the same quality, if not better, than The Witcher 3 narrative. This is was kept me on the hook for nearly half of a decade.

Here we are now. Not only is this narrative nowhere near the quality and depth of The Witcher 3, it is not even a good story if you judge it and compare it only to itself. It is such a demoralizing slap in the face, to see the lack of creativity, and all of the missed opportunities to tell something meaningful. Every character is flat and static, V only is driven by his own vanity. The times that V can question his ethics or stand for something, he doesn't. The times you choose to do something good or bad as V, its soulless and arbitrary. We are literally living in a world where corporations are now monopolizing what is true and factual, and what opinions are acceptable. Every single day in our real lives, we question what is actually real and happening, and the difference in our own worldviews and lives are irreconcilable from news station to corporate press releases and official government statements. Every day for most citizens of the first world is a struggle to figure what is real, the only people who don't go through this are the ones who are not conscientious. But I am conscientious about everything, I question everything and demand meaningful justification and coherency from the institutions that claim that is their function. This is why I supported and loved CDPR over the years. They took every chance they could to state that they held similar values to me.

Am I assigning too much meaning to something and do I have unrealistic expectations from storytellers? It would seem that in the year 2020 I do. Did CDPR do anything to make me have a realistic expectation of what this product should be? No, they lead me on and reinforced my expectations, that we would get a world and narrative giving us a chance to thematically challenge, fight back, or accept the most negative aspects of our current society that have gone unchecked. We didn't get anything close to that. Despite the years of promises, the statements of CDPR that story and RPG elements come before anything else with this title, we have nothing. We takeaway from this narrative that big corporations are bad...

This is a common trend in modern day entertainment. Its not that I can't let go of previous characters or stories that moved me in the past, I am struggling to let go of the continuation of meaningful storytelling that leaves you with a message or multiple messages. The entertainment industry is no longer trying to tell a story they care about, or give a narrative and platform to explore their values. These companies no longer have values, and people or institutions lacking their own morals and values are unable to tell a meaningful story. CDPR framed itself for years as one of the last entertainment companies that stood for telling these types of stories that at their core have a universal theme. The times that a universal theme wasn't taking the main stage in The Witcher series, you were giving the option to chose your side or stance.

If you are here reading this, I am guessing you probably agree with most of what I said or have the same position that I do. CDPR has alienated people like us, the ones they said they cared the most about--PC gamers who loved RPGs that tell an impactful story. CDPR adopted us after Bioware alienated us in the early 2010s. It now seems it is CDPR's turn to alienate us like Bioware did almost a decade ago. I guess we will see which company promises to serve us as a target audience next. I have lost all all faith though now that anyone will actually deliver.

I feel your pain.

I remember my wife saying "I've never seen you so excited for a game like you are now"
I told her "This game is from the same guys who made the Witcher 3"

I fcking LOVE the Witcher 3. I finished that game again during the Lockdown using all mods possible. I put more than 150 hours and I had the time of my life.

On Cyberpunk 2077 I drank the Kool-Aid like a tequila shot.
I bought the book, the merch, the statues, the posters...
I built a brand new fucking awesome machine with a RTX 3080 FE
Booked my vacation just to play this game

I laughed AT LOUD of the warnings about the Hype Train.
I always told to myself "This is the CDPR you FCKING MORONS. Those guys are REAL Devs, not sellouts like Bioware or Bethesda".

and... here we are
 
Yes to this. Can anyone name a game where if you take your time in a game. The character dies, save file is deleted, and you must play over. Anyone. Games do not force you to play the story at breakneck pace. That is a falsehood. You can play any game at any pace you want. Arthur does not die if you sit in RDR2 for 40 hours. Before you finish the boss fight. Zelda waits 100 years for Link. While you goof around and cook food. You do not want a game that realistically reflects this. Imagine taking too long in a boss fight. Oh, V dies, too bad. Restart the game please.
Pathfinder Kingmaker has an interesting approach and sense of emergency. Way more than Cyberpunk that's for sure.
Anyway, OP, I feel you and agree with you on every point. Which I'm aware is more sad than reassuring...
The potential is here, though, and I really hope CDPR can make something of it in the near future. They have to unless they want to become part of EA just like Bioware and join the graveyard of former top storytellers and RPG makers.
 
Oh come on! How long have you been playing games? The 'Urgent' main quest line mission is always the last thing you do when your ready to move on with it.
Why? I'm sorry, I play RPGs for immersion. And quite frankly ignoring a terminal condition in favor of pocket money ain't it.
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I am 60 hours in and have not felt the "urgency" you have experienced. But the side quests are really better than the main story for me. I still like the main story. You might have loved the main quests more and kept on being lead down the main questlines, which is fine.
No it's not fine because the main story was too short. I didn't feel rewarded for being immersed and engaged with the story. Especially after the horrible endings.
 
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