You know what my problem is with "bittersweet ending" because of a cure in DLC? This makes the "bittersweet ending (I'd just call it bitter, but OK)" not an ending at all.
Why can't I get a satisfying final product with a purposeful real ending, which doesn't depend on DLC?
In all of the endings V outright fails to achieve the main goal of the story. Bittersweet would be if you achieve your goal but at too great a cost. Or if you don't achieve the goal you set out originally, but still achieve something great instead.
I mean... One of the main goals of the game is becoming a legend of night city. You achieve that in almost all the endings. Another one is the Johnny situation, again solved. You even solve the fact that his engram is killing you, you're just left with a different problem at the end of it
The worst part is that the best ending of the game currently is the arasaka ending, because at least it fully plays out with the player in control. Even if they intended this as the bad ending. To me that's the most hopeful of the endings, because you are still in control and still V. Getting spaced or a terrorist sociopath taking over your body is not bittersweet, it is infuriating. Yeah there is the panam ending too, but I don't like that either, because it implies living out your last 6 months as the tuscens.
I don't follow. You're hired by Hanako at the end of devil, with a hint of a big job they need you for. Star has you go to Arizona to figure out a cure, Sun has you go to crystal palace to for Mr Blue Eyes while being offered something V "would do anything for" (a cure). They're all pretty positive if you look beyond the ending.
Again see above. Star is looking for a cure, Sun is potentially doing something for a cure, Devil has the most powerful corporation in the world backing V, and they're incentivised to keep them alive.
Even if through some ex machina there is a miracle cure popping up in the middle of the badlands it does not work as a DLC, because in a great chunk of possible endings V is already dead, would you exlcude 2/3 of your playerbase by releasing a DLC that only applies to one or two of the possible endings? LOL.
? Star, Sun, Devil (return to earth) all have V surviving. The only endings where V could not continue the story is the suicide and temperance. Both of which are pretty definitive endings.
Also, I don't think the cure is ex machina as you think. V is suffering from a weird form of construct induced multiple sclerosis. You hear an ad constantly from biotechnica referring to the fact that they're on the verge of curing it.
In fallout4 I joined the institute it was great ending, loss of friendly NPCs sucked however - in every ending and put "war never changes" quote in to unexpected perspective for me.
In mass effect I didn't see any ending as very happy - not even the synthesis. The music saved it ... the music -_-
And here in CP2077, people tend to call Panam/Judy ending the good one - I don't. I would like to stay in NC and become local batman till I die. Or join max-tac as I was offered. For me best ending so far was Johnny's ending.
And going in to arasaka solo and then leave the blood drenched terminator to Johnny to drive is IMO the ultimate one.
I also liked Takemura's ending. with signing the contract - reminded me of carbon tv show thing. xD And I was sad for dissapointed Takemura sending me to hell in my "nice" Panam ending xD so...
All of them are great while they stay sad and depressing xD melancholy - mmmm delightful - fitting with the rest of the game.
I mean... One of the main goals of the game is becoming a legend of night city. You achieve that in almost all the endings. Another one is the Johnny situation, again solved. You even solve the fact that his engram is killing you, you're just left with a different problem at the end of it
Nope, that is Jackie's goal. And becoming a legend after raiding arasaka would work as a replacement goal if they actually let me play it out and experience it instead of just telling me about it in a cutscene / time jump.
The conflict of the game is that you get an engram in your head that is killling you. So your singular goal is to save your life. In what world replacing one type of death with another is problem solved?
I don't follow. You're hired by Hanako at the end of devil, with a hint of a big job they need you for. Star has you go to Arizona to figure out a cure, Sun has you go to crystal palace to for Mr Blue Eyes while being offered something V "would do anything for" (a cure). They're all pretty positive if you look beyond the ending.
I don't follow either. You go to the crystal palace to raid as in rob it, there is zero indication that there is a cure there. It would actually be pretty stupid if there was a cure just laying there, so I think you are imagining that. Besides since the last moment is your suit depressurizing there is not much more to that is it? There is zero hope that a cure just magically sits there for a condition that neither the most influental corp, and neither a crazy rougie ai could solve.
Again see above. Star is looking for a cure, Sun is potentially doing something for a cure, Devil has the most powerful corporation in the world backing V, and they're incentivised to keep them alive.
In the legend of the afterlife ending your suit depressurises and you die, that's litreally the last scene. And if a cure sitting on a space station was not outlandish enough it would be utterly stupid if it was in a desert in arizona.
? Star, Sun, Devil (return to earth) all have V surviving. The only endings where V could not continue the story is the suicide and temperance. Both of which are pretty definitive endings.
The only endings were V survives and is fully V, are the panam ending and the return to earth ending. In Legend of there is a huge time jump which the game does not account for, and then V dies trying to raid a space station.
Also, I don't think the cure is ex machina as you think. V is suffering from a weird form of construct induced multiple sclerosis. You hear an ad constantly from biotechnica referring to the fact that they're on the verge of curing it.
And then we didn't even mention that in the return to earth ending V's condition is not the same as in the Panam ending. So it would have to be a truly magical cure to work in both cases.
The fact that you have to invent workarounds and explanations for it proves that the endings are not satisfactory.
The conflict of the game is that you get an engram in your head that is killling you. So your singular goal is to save your life. In what world replacing one type of death with another is problem solved?
Yes, exactly. This is such a nice short wrap up. And now re: the endings and the cure.
In the story we got now as it is, V (already dead what, twice?) is doomed to die in 6 months. We've got 700+ pages on why it's not satisfactory expectation-wise (i.e. what the game mentions, literally saying "if you want to survive, you need to...") and genre-wise, and how this sort of open-ending doesn't fit the overall theme. V finding a cure is a whole another story, a possible DLC. There might not be a DLC after all.
If V's survival is indeed planned to be sold in a DLC, then I'm not a fan of this cause:
it means the original story was unfinished, despite my investing 50 hours in it. Additionally, there are plenty of other ideas for DLC that could elaborate on the world rather than finish the story.
the DLC is not even announced, meaning that the story is unfinished and the players have to wait to see IF it is going to be finished, and then be satisfied with a finished story even tho it's a must? (I hope this makes sense)
In my opinion "happy" endings do not fit the genre. The best ending you should get is bittersweet and, again my opinion, should be relatively rare. If the gamemaster of the PnP rpg I ran under had written the story the solo assault on Arasaka would be the only ending available, and if you survive the assault you would end up getting killed by MaxTac as a cyberpsycho.
I voted for sad but I like endings which have strong resolution in story and for characters. Players sometimes don't have to agree with it but they can understand it.
My question for all is: How to you like ambiguous ending, open for interpretation ?
Now that is a different story. This is what 2077 did. I can't fucking stand it. I want either V to die, or V to survive. Not the in between crap. So I'm thinking, is the sequel gonna be about another find the cure/Rescue V from ALT crap. Which we did and "failed" in this one. Or have to get DLC that actually finishes the story. Which would be a rip off.
Why do people want to divide between happy or bitter endings, when the difference should be good, fulfilling and well written endings versus stupid, illogical and arbitrary endings ?
I think is very nice to have the 2 option in the games, this is something that you cant do in a book or a movie, a history have multiples endings and you can pick the one that you liked more and that you think that fit better is awsome.
I would categorize the majority of the endings as these. Hanako ending with either Takemura or Hellman. V's choices are all lies. And could be fixed. Make a new Relic, insert V into said Relic. Reinsert in head. Solved, done. So it's a dumb ending. Soley to setup a possible sequel. Panam, Rogue endings. Finding out there's no cure to V. V doesn't go and kill Hanako and Yorinobu directly after getting rid of Smasher. Dumb arbitrary story drops V's anger. and another example of V getting screwed out of getting back at people who fucked them.
Legend ending. V inherits Afterlife and Rogue's money. Corpo V doesn't invest this into taking over the crumbling Arasaka. To build a Relic chip, to save your own ass. Dumb ending. Example of them failing to use the life paths to change outcomes. Without disrupting their want to have "open" endings.
Nope, that is Jackie's goal. And becoming a legend after raiding arasaka would work as a replacement goal if they actually let me play it out and experience it instead of just telling me about it in a cutscene / time jump.
The conflict of the game is that you get an engram in your head that is killing you. So your singular goal is to save your life. In what world replacing one type of death with another is problem solved?
You literally state to Angel/Skye (IE your own subconscious) that becoming the best in night city is your goal. Also, the cutscene/timejump isn't as long as you think it is. Star travels to Arizona shortly after the Arasaka raid, Sun's first big job is Crystal Palace and Devil returns to earth and is called by Hanako shortly afterwards.
I don't follow either. You go to the crystal palace to raid as in rob it, there is zero indication that there is a cure there. It would actually be pretty stupid if there was a cure just laying there, so I think you are imagining that. Besides since the last moment is your suit depressurizing there is not much more to that is it? There is zero hope that a cure just magically sits there for a condition that neither the most influental corp, and neither a crazy rougie ai could solve.
There isn't a cure in crystal palace, Mr Blue Eyes is offering "something V would do anything for" in exchange. V, in return, states that "they have nothing to lose" (believing themselves already dead). Seems like Mr Blue Eyes is referring to information on a cure.
In the legend of the afterlife ending your suit depressurises and you die, that's litreally the last scene. And if a cure sitting on a space station was not outlandish enough it would be utterly stupid if it was in a desert in arizona.
No, you don't. Shit, you're accusing me of reading too deeply into something? There is absolutely no indication that V's suit is depressurising, in fact that makes no sense at all. You need a propellant to move through space, thats what I saw that gas as, V certainly doesn't seem concerned, just angry.
Also, why wouldn't information about a cure be in Arizona? You're going with the Aldecaldos, who certainly seem confident that you'll find what you need there.
The only endings were V survives and is fully V, are the panam ending and the return to earth ending. In Legend of there is a huge time jump which the game does not account for, and then V dies trying to raid a space station.
Devil return to earth, star, sun. I don't think V dies at the end of sun, nor is there this massive time jump that accounts for around 6 months. The only endings where V dies are suicide and Temperance.
And then we didn't even mention that in the return to earth ending V's condition is not the same as in the Panam ending. So it would have to be a truly magical cure to work in both cases.
Yeah it is. The means of getting there are different (star/sun Alt does the untangling, Devil is surgery). But in the end its clearly stated in both endings that your own body sees you as an invader, and your immune system is responding appropriately. That's in the realm of curable/treatable diseases even now.
I never said I was 100% happy with the endings. What im saying is that they are leading us to a DLC. Base game cyberpunk is about Johnny, a post game expansion would wrap up V's story. I don't think I'm creating workarounds at all, just stating what I believe the endings to be.
I would categorize the majority of the endings as these. Hanako ending with either Takemura or Hellman. V's choices are all lies. And could be fixed. Make a new Relic, insert V into said Relic. Reinsert in head. Solved, done. So it's a dumb ending. Soley to setup a possible sequel. Panam, secret, Rogue endings. Finding out there's no cure to V. V doesn't go and kill Hanako and Yorinobu directly after getting rid of Smasher. Dumb arbitrary story drops V's anger. and another example of V getting screwed out of getting back at people who fucked them.
Legend ending. V inherits Afterlife and Rogue's money. Corpo V doesn't invest this into taking over the crumbling Arasaka. To build a Relic chip, to save your own ass. Dumb ending. Example of them failing to use the life paths to change outcomes. Without disrupting their want to have "open" endings.
Devil can't reinsert themselves into their own body because you'd still have the same problem, their body would still see themselves as an invader. Doing that doesn't really solve anything, and it's what you basically do in star/sun anyway.
Star, why would V want to kill Yorinobu/Hanako? Getting to the basement was costly enough and Arasaka can't help V further. Hanako/Yorinobu didn't really screw V, Alt did.
Again, same with Sun? I suppose if Johnny really did affect V you would see it this way, but why would V declare war on Arasaka, what is the point?
Devil can't reinsert themselves into their own body because you'd still have the same problem, their body would still see themselves as an invader. Doing that doesn't really solve anything, and it's what you basically do in star/sun anyway.
Johnny was a invader and overwrote the body. Because the power of the chip. Overwrite the Relic chip with the same process. Nothing says this is not possible. The Relic chip rewrote the body. Rewrite the rewrite. Or are you gonna say the Relic chip is gonna have organic security in preventing this. Even though the Relic chip doesn't need to be left in the head. After the process is done.
Johnny was a invader and overwrote the body. Because the power of the chip. Overwrite the Relic chip with the same process. Nothing says this is not possible. The Relic chip rewrote the body. Rewrite the rewrite. Or are you gonna say the Relic chip is gonna have organic security in preventing this. Even though the Relic chip doesn't need to be left in the head. After the process is done.
Hm, fair point. Hellman says that the chip is a prototype so its entirely possible that the current line of chips just can't work like that, but then again, they have stronger versions (Saburo) and you already own the blueprints so...
Suppose a pretty major reason is the fact that V doesn't want soulkiller used on them, hence why they return to Earth. Its also entirely possible that a second rewrite would put way too much strain on Vs body. It's definitely a plothole they should have explained.
You literally state to Angel/Skye (IE your own subconscious) that becoming the best in night city is your goal. Also, the cutscene/timejump isn't as long as you think it is. Star travels to Arizona shortly after the Arasaka raid, Sun's first big job is Crystal Palace and Devil returns to earth and is called by Hanako shortly afterwards.
V had no desire to be the best, only to honor Jackie. And I have no effing clue who is this Angel / Skye you refer to.
And now you are just arguing semantics. It doesn't matter if the time jump is 10 days 10 weeks or 10 years. The fact is that the game doesn't actually let you become legend of Afterlife it just tells you that V becomes that after the Arasaka raid.
There isn't a cure in crystal palace, Mr Blue Eyes is offering "something V would do anything for" in exchange. V, in return, states that "they have nothing to lose" (believing themselves already dead). Seems like Mr Blue Eyes is referring to information on a cure.
So at best you can argue the ending down to ambiguous. That's still not satisfactory.
No, you don't. Shit, you're accusing me of reading too deeply into something? There is absolutely no indication that V's suit is depressurising, in fact that makes no sense at all. You need a propellant to move through space, thats what I saw that gas as, V certainly doesn't seem concerned, just angry.
I have yet to see propellant that comes out around the neck seams of the suit in a circle. I see what I see, if you have official word that what we see is something else, citation please.
Of course V is not concerned, he/she knows he is already dead anyway. This was always planned as a suicide mission for V. You have to duck your head under a ton of sand to not see that.
Also, why wouldn't information about a cure be in Arizona? You're going with the Aldecaldos, who certainly seem confident that you'll find what you need there.
Because it makes no sense. I already told you, a rogue ai and the biggest company couldn't come up with a cure, but it happens to exist there, give me a break. And I don't remember anyone being confident of it.
Devil return to earth, star, sun. I don't think V dies at the end of sun, nor is there this massive time jump that accounts for around 6 months. The only endings where V dies are suicide and Temperance
I have explained it to you, I can't understand it for you. If there is no time jump then what? How do we get from Arasaka to living in a penthouse as the leader of Afterlife? Did you play out that part, because the game sure as hell didn't let me see that part.
