A little worrying

[Kadayi]

It feels like people bought in too much in the video demonstrations while the game was still in development and likely to change in the subsequent release. I'm old, so I've experienced games that "promised" things like Spore, No Man's Sky, Street Fighter vs Tekken, Anthem, and Fallout 76 and it always, ALWAYS, best to assume nothing is set in stone no matter what anyone in the gaming industry promises. Shit changes from small to drastic measures during development even in the final days.


I hope consumers learn from this and learn to avoid pre-ordering unless you don't mind.

Pretty much. I don't know how it is so many people didn't take the big disclaimer at the top of the 48-minute demo footage at its word. All this 'Cut content' talk doing the rounds is really just a failure to understand that what was shown was an approximation, but not necessarily reality and that the game in its entirety was far from finished at the time, and some things didn't necessarily work out when it came to testing and balance.

 

[Jananasmyass]

Well they did kinda implement most of the things they promised. Unfortunately in a very minuscule way. That is something I would have expected from other company. Not from CDPR, but here comes the reality check. The are no different.
The game lacks flair, honestly. It's just a pretty world and nothing to it.

 

[CDProjektFred]

I watched and listened carefully to the message the CDPR CEO broadcasted through the video today and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed and feel like its a hopeless situation, like this is the final end of the road for Cyberpunk.

Us gamers have learned the hard lesson that we shouldn't read between the lines and interject our own personal hopes and dreams into a game when the developer doesn't explicitly made such a promise in writing, even when its hinted and reasonably inferred or all but assumed, we have to stop short of letting our imagination run wild and we must go by what is actually stated...

It isn't so much what the CEO said, it is what he did NOT say... He made zero mention of revamping the totally nonexistent AI, including the lacking NPC AI driving, the cop chase /stars system and also the AI of the NPC pedestrians and in general the true immersion of the game/city that was promised but never materialized...

There was zero mention of adding back content that was cut, nothing about adding back the train system, or the walk climbing, or dual welding or any number of dozens of features and functionalities that were promised in the numerous trailers but then suddenly abandoned and cut out at the very last minute in order to ship a broken and incomplete game under false pretenses just to pump up sales revenue for the holiday season....

So in essence, there will be a few bug fixes, but that's pretty much it.... you can tell by the tone of the CEO that in his mind the PC version is already pretty great and basically don't even need fixing, and the main focus will be on making the last gen consoles versions more playable...

What is most disheartening perhaps is towards the end of the video message the CEO is just brushing Cyberpunk aside and already on the verge of pimping to us the next new games/titles that CDPR has in the pipeline and in the works...

I for one will never again pre-order another game from CDPR, and most likely will never buy nor play another CDPR game ever again if their DLC ends up being just some more story telling missions and does nothing to fix the AI, to add back functionality that was in the trailer but cut out at last minute, or to make good on the immersion that was promised that would befit a city of this genre...

But if we are to take the CEO's own words at face value, there is no evidence that any of this will ever happen. The only thing he mentioned was bug fixes, primarily on the last gen consoles, and still refused to admit the PC version is also horribly broken in that its basically missing at least a full 1/3rds of the content/functionality/immersion that was cut out in order to rush the shipping date and also to load-shed the game enough to conform to the last gen consoles least common denominator...

It isn't about the money to me, I would gladly pay hundreds or thousands of bucks for a true NightCity that lived up to its full potential... but what we are hearing from the CEO today, is that they will do some bug fixes, push out a DLC with no mention of adding back cut functionality and content/ immersion, no mention of fixing AI, NPC, etc and basically just wrapping it up and now they already want to rinse and repeat and ready to sell us the NEXT game...

Fool me once....


NO... JUST NO. NEVER AGAIN.

IMHO they are just going to add the missing content in upcoming free DLC. This is just a 'we fucked up but we hear you' kind of video.. Maybe they'll get into details closer to release of that content.. They haven't said anything yet so you don't know if they are going to release it. Maybe they were on the fence about releasing all of that content but the post you made helped them decide to not release it. Who knows. With that being said I feel they made this video because the government is coming down on them but are legit trying to fix the mess they created because they are a good company at heart. I wouldn't know this is my first game with CDPR. Last game I preordered before this was in like 1999.

 

[low_klass_intelekt]

I watched and listened carefully to the message the CDPR CEO broadcasted through the video today and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed and feel like its a hopeless situation, like this is the final end of the road for Cyberpunk.

Us gamers have learned the hard lesson that we shouldn't read between the lines and interject our own personal hopes and dreams into a game when the developer doesn't explicitly made such a promise in writing, even when its hinted and reasonably inferred or all but assumed, we have to stop short of letting our imagination run wild and we must go by what is actually stated...

It isn't so much what the CEO said, it is what he did NOT say... He made zero mention of revamping the totally nonexistent AI, including the lacking NPC AI driving, the cop chase /stars system and also the AI of the NPC pedestrians and in general the true immersion of the game/city that was promised but never materialized...

There was zero mention of adding back content that was cut, nothing about adding back the train system, or the walk climbing, or dual welding or any number of dozens of features and functionalities that were promised in the numerous trailers but then suddenly abandoned and cut out at the very last minute in order to ship a broken and incomplete game under false pretenses just to pump up sales revenue for the holiday season....

So in essence, there will be a few bug fixes, but that's pretty much it.... you can tell by the tone of the CEO that in his mind the PC version is already pretty great and basically don't even need fixing, and the main focus will be on making the last gen consoles versions more playable...

What is most disheartening perhaps is towards the end of the video message the CEO is just brushing Cyberpunk aside and already on the verge of pimping to us the next new games/titles that CDPR has in the pipeline and in the works...

I for one will never again pre-order another game from CDPR, and most likely will never buy nor play another CDPR game ever again if their DLC ends up being just some more story telling missions and does nothing to fix the AI, to add back functionality that was in the trailer but cut out at last minute, or to make good on the immersion that was promised that would befit a city of this genre...

But if we are to take the CEO's own words at face value, there is no evidence that any of this will ever happen. The only thing he mentioned was bug fixes, primarily on the last gen consoles, and still refused to admit the PC version is also horribly broken in that its basically missing at least a full 1/3rds of the content/functionality/immersion that was cut out in order to rush the shipping date and also to load-shed the game enough to conform to the last gen consoles least common denominator...

It isn't about the money to me, I would gladly pay hundreds or thousands of bucks for a true NightCity that lived up to its full potential... but what we are hearing from the CEO today, is that they will do some bug fixes, push out a DLC with no mention of adding back cut functionality and content/ immersion, no mention of fixing AI, NPC, etc and basically just wrapping it up and now they already want to rinse and repeat and ready to sell us the NEXT game...

Fool me once....


NO... JUST NO. NEVER AGAIN.

i agree on most your points. and it's safe to say from what i've read on this forum most do. i also will never pre-order a CDPR game. in my mind CDPR was the last of a dying breed. i still believe they posses some redeeming characteristics, namely the lack of p2w practices, however taken as a whole, CP77 has knocked CDPR off the pedestal i've unfortunately placed them on.

w/ all that said. i still like the game. i'm still playing it. it's a cool world to escape into for an hour or two a day. it's hard to argue that the game was released unfinished but hey, many are. at the end of the day it's a game. a non-revolutionary, prematurely released and easily forgotten game. nothing at this point will ever change that. time to move on.

oh and if you're reading this CDPR, thanks for the witcher triology. i enjoyed the hell out of that series

 

[RadiumDragon]

Pretty much. I don't know how it is so many people didn't take the big disclaimer at the top of the 48-minute demo footage at its word. All this 'Cut content' talk doing the rounds is really just a failure to understand that what was shown was an approximation, but not necessarily reality and that the game in its entirety was far from finished at the time, and some things didn't necessarily work out when it came to testing and balance.

I'd be less annoyed with cut content if they weren't so obvious about it. I and many others are well aware that content is cut from every game. But the games I play don't have in your face artefacts of what was supposed to be there. If content is cut fine, but hide that fact. Even cutting content was lazy/rushed

 

[Heartstopper]

I mean...he's the CEO, not game devs that actually knows what and how, what you expecting choom?

Maybe...just maybe...that the guy actually in charge would have a clue and not treat their customers like brainless wallets that don't know any better.

 

[Kadayi]

That doesn't address what I'm talking about. He only talked about bugs and legacy console performance. He didn't talk about any other issues with the game. The road map doesn't reference any issues either.

Yes it does :

see where it says 'Multiple Updates & Improvements'.

The game is no where near what was advertised. What we hoped or thought it would be was what they advertised. The game very factually is missing a lot of contend their marketing showed would be in the game.

I'm going to guess what you keep referring to is this: -

Which was an early gameplay reveal which has a big disclaimer at the top that it was 'work in progress' that somehow people like yourself choose to ignore.

 

[zorba1138]

I'd be less annoyed with cut content if they weren't so obvious about it. I and many others are well aware that content is cut from every game. But the games I play don't have in your face artefacts of what was supposed to be there. If content is cut fine, but hide that fact. Even cutting content was lazy/rushed

Anyone who's thinking they'll bring cut content back (especially from the prologue) or do a proper overhaul of the game systems is setting themselves for a disappointment, they cannot introduce "game braking" changes, which means that anything they fix or add cannot require anyone to start a new game and needs to work as a drop in at any point of the game from the beginning of act 1 (as in just after the heist when V wakes up in their apartment) and until the point of no return which anyone who has reached it has an automated PONR save just before it.

CDPR will not add any content that would require players to start a new game, this means that things like actual choice and impactful decisions aren't going to be somehow magically backported, they can make only very superficial changes to core systems without making your existing save files essentially useless basically a patch that changes the perk system and resets your perks on load is about as far as they can go and even that might be pushing it.

This is one of the big problems of fixing a game with so many problems after release, it's much harder not because you are forced to work on even tighter schedules because the game is already out but you have so many restrictions on what changes you can make and how to implement them because you have to allow people to pick up the game at the same point they left it which can be pretty much at any point.

Even if we ignore the difficulties of adding content to existing quests as it needs to be recorded in like 9 different languages and translated to even more, this means getting a lot of people some of which might be rather expensive into a studio.
You can't add content to the game which players have already played, that would not fly with neither Sony/MSFT nor with the players.

 

[Salfin]

I watched and listened carefully to the message the CDPR CEO broadcasted through the video today and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed and feel like its a hopeless situation, like this is the final end of the road for Cyberpunk.

Us gamers have learned the hard lesson that we shouldn't read between the lines and interject our own personal hopes and dreams into a game when the developer doesn't explicitly made such a promise in writing, even when its hinted and reasonably inferred or all but assumed, we have to stop short of letting our imagination run wild and we must go by what is actually stated...

It isn't so much what the CEO said, it is what he did NOT say... He made zero mention of revamping the totally nonexistent AI, including the lacking NPC AI driving, the cop chase /stars system and also the AI of the NPC pedestrians and in general the true immersion of the game/city that was promised but never materialized...

There was zero mention of adding back content that was cut, nothing about adding back the train system, or the walk climbing, or dual welding or any number of dozens of features and functionalities that were promised in the numerous trailers but then suddenly abandoned and cut out at the very last minute in order to ship a broken and incomplete game under false pretenses just to pump up sales revenue for the holiday season....

So in essence, there will be a few bug fixes, but that's pretty much it.... you can tell by the tone of the CEO that in his mind the PC version is already pretty great and basically don't even need fixing, and the main focus will be on making the last gen consoles versions more playable...

What is most disheartening perhaps is towards the end of the video message the CEO is just brushing Cyberpunk aside and already on the verge of pimping to us the next new games/titles that CDPR has in the pipeline and in the works...

I for one will never again pre-order another game from CDPR, and most likely will never buy nor play another CDPR game ever again if their DLC ends up being just some more story telling missions and does nothing to fix the AI, to add back functionality that was in the trailer but cut out at last minute, or to make good on the immersion that was promised that would befit a city of this genre...

But if we are to take the CEO's own words at face value, there is no evidence that any of this will ever happen. The only thing he mentioned was bug fixes, primarily on the last gen consoles, and still refused to admit the PC version is also horribly broken in that its basically missing at least a full 1/3rds of the content/functionality/immersion that was cut out in order to rush the shipping date and also to load-shed the game enough to conform to the last gen consoles least common denominator...

It isn't about the money to me, I would gladly pay hundreds or thousands of bucks for a true NightCity that lived up to its full potential... but what we are hearing from the CEO today, is that they will do some bug fixes, push out a DLC with no mention of adding back cut functionality and content/ immersion, no mention of fixing AI, NPC, etc and basically just wrapping it up and now they already want to rinse and repeat and ready to sell us the NEXT game...

Fool me once....


NO... JUST NO. NEVER AGAIN.

Guys, many people are dissapointed by design changes, like the flathead, wall climbing, what seem to be changed storylines etc.

But it's important to keep things in perspective. The biggest problem with Cyberpunk right now is console performance, IE getting the game back on the Sony store, and Xbox removing their stability disclaimer. Along with that the game still crashes for a lot of PC users.

This is about triage, and not whatever systems you see need to changed.

After fixing the game they are going to be putting out their free DLCs, and then probably working to make sure their next gen console version launches smooth as heck and doesn't run into any problems. This is what the timeliness says, and is very sensible.

The stuff you're talking about is not on the radar. And what do you want them to do. Not fix their game? Leave it a crash buggy mess? Have their ps5 version launch and get pulled from the store?

 

[Ji_Sva]

If you are right and they miss this chance to make Cyberpunk a great franchise, it's gonna be really sad.

 

[FLyingMonkeyPaints]

I generally agree with the OP, but am taking a more "wait and see" approach. From the video I'm not expecting too much, but I am at least...hopeful. If it's all bug fixes I'm out on Cyberpunk and CDPR generally, but if the first patch fixes the AI and physics somewhat, then I'm interested in what comes next.

It's a no-brainer that CDPR's top priority has to be fixing the consoles; right now that is just money sittting on the table, and companies exist to make money so the employees can eat. I just hope that their vision and understanding of why people are pissed, and commitment to make it better extends well beyond "we released a buggy game"...

 

[VirNR]

I'm not going to defend them or justify what they've done but for the time being I think we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[Ji_Sva]

View attachment 11141879

at least the DLCs were mentioned in plural. That's my only consolation right now.

 

[Hayte]

Its really unhealthy to cling to a game like this barely a month after a rocky launch and build up this fantasy in your head of what it could or should have been and then imagine a timeline of when it can all be made good.

Game dev is difficult and time consuming and it cannot operate on the moment to moment wants of individual players, who (guess what?) all want different things.

Just go do something constructive with your time. Play and enjoy another game and when you are finished, check back in to see what has happened in Cyberpunkland. I do this with Warframe all the time. Play for 6 months on and off and the cool thing is, I never feel disappointed. I stop playing when I'm bored or if some bugs are ruining my favourite things to do. I play something else. I come back 6 months later and now I suddenly have 2 big content drops to playthrough and its like a new game again.

But if you want to feel permanently disappointed by all means, hang on the CEO's vague words for the next 6 months and feel the crushing weight of disappointment at the realization that game dev doesn't work on your personal schedule.

 

[Rudo_]

To

Im in the same camp as you. This message screamed to me "the only issue we care about is the performance on Consoles and bugs on consoles"

Even if this game ran the same on consoles as it does right now on my PC, that won't change the AI, the Police System, the traffic, the crowds, the lack of immersion, the lack of activities in the world or the the lack of world interaction

Totally. I play on ps4 base and the bugs and crashes, while plenty, are not the guilties of my insatisfaction with the game.
I can stand (non gamebreaker) bugs if the story, inmersion etc are good, but unfortunately they are not. I'd rather have bugged npc's with a proper AI than the brainless bots popping in and out arround NC.
I dont care much about bugs if there is a really good game to support them, as oblivion or kingdom come were, for example; because bugs can be fixed/sorted but poor design decisions just cannot.
Polishing this game won't make it a better game, it will make it a better-looking mediocre game. Playin in ultra 4k or playing in a old ps4.

 

[Techno_Core]

Yes it does :

see where it says 'Multiple Updates & Improvements'.



I'm going to guess what you keep referring to is this: -

Which was an early gameplay reveal which has a big disclaimer at the top that it was 'work in progress' that somehow people like yourself choose to ignore.

There is nothing in the video or roadmap that addresses the missing content.

 

[SeriousVictor]

I watched and listened carefully to the message the CDPR CEO broadcasted through the video today and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed and feel like its a hopeless situation, like this is the final end of the road for Cyberpunk.

Us gamers have learned the hard lesson that we shouldn't read between the lines and interject our own personal hopes and dreams into a game when the developer doesn't explicitly made such a promise in writing, even when its hinted and reasonably inferred or all but assumed, we have to stop short of letting our imagination run wild and we must go by what is actually stated...

It isn't so much what the CEO said, it is what he did NOT say... He made zero mention of revamping the totally nonexistent AI, including the lacking NPC AI driving, the cop chase /stars system and also the AI of the NPC pedestrians and in general the true immersion of the game/city that was promised but never materialized...

There was zero mention of adding back content that was cut, nothing about adding back the train system, or the walk climbing, or dual welding or any number of dozens of features and functionalities that were promised in the numerous trailers but then suddenly abandoned and cut out at the very last minute in order to ship a broken and incomplete game under false pretenses just to pump up sales revenue for the holiday season....

So in essence, there will be a few bug fixes, but that's pretty much it.... you can tell by the tone of the CEO that in his mind the PC version is already pretty great and basically don't even need fixing, and the main focus will be on making the last gen consoles versions more playable...

What is most disheartening perhaps is towards the end of the video message the CEO is just brushing Cyberpunk aside and already on the verge of pimping to us the next new games/titles that CDPR has in the pipeline and in the works...

I for one will never again pre-order another game from CDPR, and most likely will never buy nor play another CDPR game ever again if their DLC ends up being just some more story telling missions and does nothing to fix the AI, to add back functionality that was in the trailer but cut out at last minute, or to make good on the immersion that was promised that would befit a city of this genre...

But if we are to take the CEO's own words at face value, there is no evidence that any of this will ever happen. The only thing he mentioned was bug fixes, primarily on the last gen consoles, and still refused to admit the PC version is also horribly broken in that its basically missing at least a full 1/3rds of the content/functionality/immersion that was cut out in order to rush the shipping date and also to load-shed the game enough to conform to the last gen consoles least common denominator...

It isn't about the money to me, I would gladly pay hundreds or thousands of bucks for a true NightCity that lived up to its full potential... but what we are hearing from the CEO today, is that they will do some bug fixes, push out a DLC with no mention of adding back cut functionality and content/ immersion, no mention of fixing AI, NPC, etc and basically just wrapping it up and now they already want to rinse and repeat and ready to sell us the NEXT game...

Fool me once....


NO... JUST NO. NEVER AGAIN.

I know how you feel bro but sadly only thing we can do at the moment actually is just hope for this cut content to be added back to the game or maybe added as part of their huge update that is coming after the first update that is coming this 10days, just really wish they at least talk more to the community and give us some info on what they are really working on so that some people have something to look forward to in this coming DLCs but for now all I feel is disappointment.

 

[Salfin]

To
Totally. I play on ps4 base and the bugs and crashes, while plenty, are not the guilties of my insatisfaction with the game.
I can stand (non gamebreaker) bugs if the story, inmersion etc are good, but unfortunately they are not. I'd rather have bugged npc's with a proper AI than the brainless bots popping in and out arround NC.
I dont care much about bugs if there is a really good game to support them, as oblivion or kingdom come were, for example; because bugs can be fixed/sorted but poor design decisions just cannot.
Polishing this game won't make it a better game, it will make it a better-looking mediocre game. Playin in ultra 4k or playing in a old ps4.

We should not accept a console game that crashes 2-3 times a play sitting, that hitches and lags in combat and while driving.

 

[RadiumDragon]

Anyone who's thinking they'll bring cut content back (especially from the prologue) or do a proper overhaul of the game systems is setting themselves for a disappointment, they cannot introduce "game braking" changes, which means that anything they fix or add cannot require anyone to start a new game and needs to work as a drop in at any point of the game from the beginning of act 1 (as in just after the heist when V wakes up in their apartment) and until the point of no return which anyone who has reached it has an automated PONR save just before it.

CDPR will not add any content that would require players to start a new game, this means that things like actual choice and impactful decisions aren't going to be somehow magically backported, they can make only very superficial changes to core systems without making your existing save files essentially useless basically a patch that changes the perk system and resets your perks on load is about as far as they can go and even that might be pushing it.

This is one of the big problems of fixing a game with so many problems after release, it's much harder not because you are forced to work on even tighter schedules because the game is already out but you have so many restrictions on what changes you can make and how to implement them because you have to allow people to pick up the game at the same point they left it which can be pretty much at any point.

Even if we ignore the difficulties of adding content to existing quests as it needs to be recorded in like 9 different languages and translated to even more, this means getting a lot of people some of which might be rather expensive into a studio.
You can't add content to the game which players have already played, that would not fly with neither Sony/MSFT nor with the players.

Yeah I agree. Though a counter point you may get from someone is No Mans Sky did a lot of overhauls. And I guess Fallout76 is somewhat improving but I can't say to what extent. The best I can hope for is large expansion type content that builds on the foundation of what's already there. That would be the best of both worlds in my opinion. I play MMO's that use this model and I know a few single player games that did it this way for a long time. Doesn't mean I hate this game, I've put well over 200 hours into it and still going. But I will call a spade a spade in regards to this. I will say I will be way more scrutinizing if CDPR survives long enough to make another game.

edit: typo

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2021

We should not accept a console game that crashes 2-3 times a play sitting, that hitches and lags in combat and while driving.

I've been saying that to Bethesda fans for what seems like a decade. It falls on deaf ears no matter how many times you say it. I agree but that won't change. I play Cyberpunk on PC where it has it's own share of issues.

 

[xOmaeka]

You're not wrong to feel that way. CDPR backed themselves into a corner by allowing pre-orders so early on, and going full throttle on marketing at a time where a smooth release before customers grew restless was impossible. The main issue for CDPR at the moment are lawsuits and government monitoring, which is testimony to how badly they screwed the pooch, but those two things have them on a tight leash.

Investors and UOKiK require them to get last-gen performance up to standard and to clean out major bugs, this press release was for them as much as it was for us. That's the brutal truth of it, if they had claimed they were going to fix all of the systems and add X and Y feature, they would be backing themselves further into the corner. Stuffing the game full of content right now would only cause further issues with the two aspects of the game for which they have existing lawsuits. Not doing so isn't proof that they only intend to fix performance and bugs, nor is it proof that they intend to do more.

Spoiler: My personal take - a little messy as it's a topic I'm pretty passionate about

If only actions had been taken against other companies sooner, CDPR would not of been able to pull what they did. No Man's Sky, WWE 2k19/20, Fifa 21, Fallout 76, Madden 21, NBA 2k21 etc. could of easily faced similar treatment but they didn't, and CDPR would of been forced by regulation to deliver a cleaner product had other more egregious practices been made examples of. CDPR might have to be the sacrificial lamb to clean the industry up, but even if they pay the price, I can't see other companies suddenly changing. Maybe it's time for regulation or unions.

It's unfortunate that something this ambitious landed them in shit, for all of their mistakes, deception and negligence, 320million spent on something so ambitious that could ruin them... While yearly sports titles built almost entirely with assets confirmed to be copied from the previous games generate billions (not hyperbole) in profits from exploiting gambling addiction in children. Year long lawsuits and they won't back down, the industry is a hellhole.

The whole situation reminds me of in school, when the teacher ignores the delinquent students all year around, then instantly expels an otherwise decent kid for one offense.

[sorry for the tirade, I do think the trouble CDPR is in is justified and would not defend it, if not for similar entities to the UOKiK and law firms involved largely ignoring the rest of the industry]