I cant wait to see a chapter 3 in arizona (in case it is in arizona).. how amazing it will be if its true? i cant imagine a better expansion than the one that bring us more quality moments with this 2 amazing characters.. im sure they will do the same with Kerry and River. Just being able to see judy by my side again.. on a new home.. and being able to have repetible but with quality missions.. more quality messages that makes us smile .. To see our couple/friends interacting with the world around them, like walking around the house and making different kind of things.. it would be awesome.. just enough to make them alive as they deserve.. and make us feel very very happy
And im totally agree with you guys.. Panam, Judy, River, Kerry.. all this people are special for how they are.. people who try to find a "solution" for their sexuality is just ridiculous..
Lmaooo and now we got this one. There is no day without this, and "romance characters should be all bisexual", I swear we could make bingo game from these. Read the thread dude, the premise of this thread aint making this game dating sim, only giving more interactions. We want what CDPR promised, content after start of romance while right now there is none, period.
Being the Legend of NC is not what I’m seeking. I’m absolutely convinced that we should see new content with V/Panam/Judy.
And damned it is NOT dating simulator, but important storyline part. I don’t believe that Panam and Judy won’t get their place in expansions. It is one the most logical and perspective way.
So many threads, so many polls, so many discussions, so many theories based on what players have already found. This can’t be vainly.
If person wants sex scene he/she goes on porn site. I want feelings, dialogues and conversation between characters who became friends and beloved to V.
Gotta say that I personally disagree with the premise of this thread. You play through the beginning of a romantic relationship, if - and only if - you so choose. Cyberpunk isn't a dating sim. I don't believe things like this should be focused on or implemented any time soon, if ever.
OMG... did you read the thread first?? because i dont see the point where it says "converting cyberpunk into a dating sim.. .
If you read the thread you can see that all of us try from our hearth to bring more life and quality content to the game (in form of ideas for devs).. This game has too much to offer, and we as players who love this game just want the best for it.. so our ideas as many MANY others in this forum are around this objetive.. Romances need more atention at the end.. If you are not agree, well..
I’m so tired of that stupid posts “you want dating sim and sex scenes”.
If person wants sex scene he/she goes on porn site. I want feelings, dialogues and conversation between characters who became friends and beloved to V.
There is literally only one true way out of this sexual-orientation-based narrative mess in the game: two full on narrative perspectives like in good old Mass Effect! Then, everyone will approach you the correct way; there will be proper dialogue choices and references from V's past.
Everyone supported this project with equally-real hard-earned money and dedicated 100+ of equally precious real life hours going through the story. In the words of Morpheus: "Your mind makes it real..", ergo we all did really live through these events and emotions. Our memories of them are real. Our hopes are real as well. We did our best! And that calls for equally measured reward! It needs to be respectful towards both: gay and straight players! With free and clear choice of the path you are taking and adequate narrative follow up! Side opinions stay outside of our computers. In our playthrough, we don't need any superficial romance limitations of some outside limited minds, we should be given a choice and when we take it and put some hard work into our dreams, we should be rewarded, or warned up ahead that there is no actual choice and if you don't like this one thing "we" did for you, then your character will stay lonely forever! Playing only in one court - either gay or straight - is equally disrespectful towards those, who believed in and supported this project; and that is like chopping the tree branch that you are sitting on.
Whether gay V or straight, she/he worked hard on this romantic relationship, risked his/her life for it, dedicated plenty of time. Leaving her/him lonely in the end - for a story teller - is like dooming own child to live in suffering for life. What is the purpose of this cruel sentence?
All in all, we like specific facial and body types, but we eventually fall in love with character, actions and inner world that we want to be a part of. All limits in romance are superficial! Fuck sexual-preference-based content blocking; we need two proper narrative perspectives! "I've spoken!" ))
First off, your post would be better placed in a thread that addressed overall disappointment with romances in general. That could be excused since divergencies are acceptable by most, yet still people here will focus on quality implementations concerning mainly Judy, and then subsequently others that would benefit in the same way.
You must understand that people here have pushed the discussion way beyond this concern you have, they have buried it and they are completely and utterly happy with how things are regarding sexual preferences, therefore they progressed their discussion towards suggestions that would result in more time with the character we love. Which is the purpose of a Judy DLC thread, the lovely images serve as merely fuel for the machine.
Secondly, out of courtesy and in hopes of saving you future troubles on the forum, as well as benefit of the doubt in what you see as good intent, I'll try address your argument best i can. And again out of courtesy and respect to the nice people involved with this topic so far, as well as the thread, I'll put it under a spoiler so it doesn't take too much further attention and space.
You start your argument with what seems to be a consumer focused point that you take up and hope to make a stance for all of us. However it changes when you say "equally measured reward". It was supposed to be an argument that calls for equality of opportunity but turned into an argument that calls for equality of outcome. Since we deal with subjective relationships with characters, there is no way to make the reward feel equal from one person to the next. Even if all characters were fair game on any V: you can say that it was awesome to you, but I can say it was horrid for me. We spent same time and had access to all, yet still where is my reward for my money? To ask for this standard would be like asking devs to be God, and even then due to freedom of choice they would fail to deliver for many.
You talk about memories and hopes, dreams, hard work and time invested. It all puts emotional weight on your argument but that doesn't take away from the argument being subjective. To the same extend you will understand that someone could address it by simply saying that they feel opposite and list the connection and emotional investment they have to the topic. That would not create for much of a discussion, it is why I don't respond now with objective points as to why I think romances should be as they are and why they are made to be as they are. But while you wanted to have an argument with a more thought through approach it is held back by this. No game is ever advertised as giving 100% audience 100% of satisfaction, to do so would be crazy. When you purchase a game you place your trust that you will get the game, you hope it is going to be a good one, but you allow yourself to be taken on the experience the developer created for you. But they will never tell you that you will be 100% satisfied for obvious reasons.
On the matter of choice being taken away. No one took away any options from you in this game. I can romance whoever I want. There is nothing preventing me from meeting the requirements to do so. The limitations set here are set in many places, you can't progress if you are too weak, you can't start a quest if you haven't completed a perquisite for it etc. These things are hurdles any game puts before you to get tru them and complete. In the case of relationships, the perquisite for us is to choose voice and physical features, those determine if we will meet requirements or not. So if you want things to go certain way, make your choice at start. You can't say there is none however or that it is in my hard earned game and not in yours.
And also should the devs be blamed? They made male and female V, they wanted to give you 2 characters to go tru the game with and they decided to have something tailor made for each of them. That is them giving you more value because if they wanted, they could have just made 1, male V or just female, give you 2 romance choices and goodbye. But they went the extra miles to give you double the reason to revisit the game and expand on your experience, is that really a bad thing?
On the point of your V ending up single, that again is up to you, the game doesn't tell you at no point that you have to end up single.
To the last bit, if you hoped to build any emotional weight and impact on your above argument you lose it when you say "F sexual-preference-based content blocking". Any good will goes out if you hammer down that it is just a vehemently held subjective opinion.
Lastly, am sorry to my chooms to point to this discussion again, but if you are all gonna jump into the mud I at least wanna keep you company.
Gotta say that I personally disagree with the premise of this thread. You play through the beginning of a romantic relationship, if - and only if - you so choose. Cyberpunk isn't a dating sim. I don't believe things like this should be focused on or implemented any time soon, if ever.
You know what I do when I see a football game going on? I go inside the stadium, and I tell to all the people there: Hey ya all, life isn't about football, it is not what you should be doing watching it. You should go learn economics and get rich. And you know how they respond? They say, Omg yes you are right! Thank you! And immediately all go out and enlist in economics courses! And never watch football again. It is amazing, works every time too. You should try that one as well.
Now please can we get some of you lovely people with Judy pics to bombard us and help us recover and clean up a bit, to get back on track as well.
I can't even wrap my head around it. Don't want to insult anyone, but some straight men do it so often, yet when it comes to being "fluid" in their sexual preferences, they don't want to romance any gay men themselves, but they want lesbian women to suddenly be bi. Just... sigh
Judy is a lesbian. Deal with it. Also, CDPR if you read it, THANK YOU AGAIN FOR AMAZING LESBIAN REPRESENTATION!
Making everybody bi would hurt immersion. They put so much effort into bringing the characters to life and defining who they are, one of the best decisions for that was to avoid turn them into walking fuck everything sex machines like in Mass Effect.
Meredith is bi, I wonder if CDPR putting effort into her character could of avoided this backlash, or if people just want to bone Judy (understandable but c'mon).
Well I want to add. I just don't understand this sentiment of "you weirdos want a dating sim, go play one". Like bro, choom. That is not what we are saying.
We are responding to the content made in the game for romances.
Does asking for more gunrange missions mean I want Cyberpunk to be a COD clone?
I just don't understand, the thinking. Furthermore, an RPG fundamental (and Cyberpunk IS an RPG) is relationships of all kinds. You the player decide who lives, who dies, who is redeemed, who changes. I don't think it's out of school to ask simply for an update/expansion to the Companion system. It grounds you in the world. Otherwise we'd be playing literally any other simple objective game like a Battle Royale and not feel invested, just fullfiling a need to play rather than have an engaging emotional experience through the lens of an RPG, linear, neo-linear or not.
Agreed. My favorite games flesh out interactions between the PC and the other characters to a seemingly unnecessary extent, thing is, it's not. Making an already invested player more emotionally invested in what it seem like very real characters is why I play games.
With the whole "Go play The Sims" logic you miss out on things like The Citadel DLC from ME3 (a fan favorite) in which you basically throw a party with your crew (by that logic, completely unnecessary when galactic doom is upon us).
You would even loose on sequels like ME2 in which THE WHOLE GAME is about assembling and getting to know your crew. You can rush into the final main mission almost from the beginning of the game, yet the only way to complete it successfully is by recruiting characters into your crew, getting to know them, resolving their unfinished businesses and, to an extend, care about them.
First off, your post would be better placed in a thread that addressed overall disappointment with romances in general. That could be excused since divergencies are acceptable by most, yet still people here will focus on quality implementations concerning mainly Judy, and then subsequently others that would benefit in the same way.
You must understand that people here have pushed the discussion way beyond this concern you have, they have buried it and they are completely and utterly happy with how things are regarding sexual preferences, therefore they progressed their discussion towards suggestions that would result in more time with the character we love. Which is the purpose of a Judy DLC thread, the lovely images serve as merely fuel for the machine.
Secondly, out of courtesy and in hopes of saving you future troubles on the forum, as well as benefit of the doubt in what you see as good intent, I'll try address your argument best i can. And again out of courtesy and respect to the nice people involved with this topic so far, as well as the thread, I'll put it under a spoiler so it doesn't take too much further attention and space.
You start your argument with what seems to be a consumer focused point that you take up and hope to make a stance for all of us. However it changes when you say "equally measured reward". It was supposed to be an argument that calls for equality of opportunity but turned into an argument that calls for equality of outcome. Since we deal with subjective relationships with characters, there is no way to make the reward feel equal from one person to the next. Even if all characters were fair game on any V: you can say that it was awesome to you, but I can say it was horrid for me. We spent same time and had access to all, yet still where is my reward for my money? To ask for this standard would be like asking devs to be God, and even then due to freedom of choice they would fail to deliver for many.
You talk about memories and hopes, dreams, hard work and time invested. It all puts emotional weight on your argument but that doesn't take away from the argument being subjective. To the same extend you will understand that someone could address it by simply saying that they feel opposite and list the connection and emotional investment they have to the topic. That would not create for much of a discussion, it is why I don't respond now with objective points as to why I think romances should be as they are and why they are made to be as they are. But while you wanted to have an argument with a more thought through approach it is held back by this. No game is ever advertised as giving 100% audience 100% of satisfaction, to do so would be crazy. When you purchase a game you place your trust that you will get the game, you hope it is going to be a good one, but you allow yourself to be taken on the experience the developer created for you. But they will never tell you that you will be 100% satisfied for obvious reasons.
On the matter of choice being taken away. No one took away any options from you in this game. I can romance whoever I want. There is nothing preventing me from meeting the requirements to do so. The limitations set here are set in many places, you can't progress if you are too weak, you can't start a quest if you haven't completed a perquisite for it etc. These things are hurdles any game puts before you to get tru them and complete. In the case of relationships, the perquisite for us is to choose voice and physical features, those determine if we will meet requirements or not. So if you want things to go certain way, make your choice at start. You can't say there is none however or that it is in my hard earned game and not in yours.
And also should the devs be blamed? They made male and female V, they wanted to give you 2 characters to go tru the game with and they decided to have something tailor made for each of them. That is them giving you more value because if they wanted, they could have just made 1, male V or just female, give you 2 romance choices and goodbye. But they went the extra miles to give you double the reason to revisit the game and expand on your experience, is that really a bad thing?
On the point of your V ending up single, that again is up to you, the game doesn't tell you at no point that you have to end up single.
To the last bit, if you hoped to build any emotional weight and impact on your above argument you lose it when you say "F sexual-preference-based content blocking". Any good will goes out if you hammer down that it is just a vehemently held subjective opinion.
Lastly, am sorry to my chooms to point to this discussion again, but if you are all gonna jump into the mud I at least wanna keep you company.
Post automatically merged:
You know what I do when I see a football game going on? I go inside the stadium, and I tell to all the people there: Hey ya all, life isn't about football, it is not what you should be doing watching it. You should go learn economics and get rich. And you know how they respond? They say, Omg yes you are right! Thank you! And immediately all go out and enlist in economics courses! And never watch football again. It is amazing, works every time too. You should try that one as well.
Now please can we get some of you lovely people with Judy pics to bombard us and help us recover and clean up a bit, to get back on track as well.
Trinixy, well mannered, constructive and very kind as always! ) Thank you dearly!
My ow my...... Forgot my own rule: don't write passionate replies before sleep! )) I see now that I did mention some spoilers without warning. Fixing it in a moment!
And, to reply to your expressed opinion. I was mainly talking about actions of the developers: they made one half of players happy for the price of unhappiness of the other half - people that supported them and paid for the game same amount of money and playing hours. Taking over 100 hours of someone's time without any solid warning to lead their character to otter loneliness? Is this the reward for all the troubles player went through?
!!!SPOILERS!!!
Also, comments show that neither dialogue choices, nor the romance itself, nor the following events - especially: "I am leaving the town" next morning + no help or concern for V's life what so ever + "You will be fine! And, when I come back, you will tell me all about it and I will probably not believe it anyway!" - none of the above resulted in a truly believable bond: gay or straight. She is beautiful, voice is wonderful and psyche type is presented wonderfully... intimate moments, emotions are there too, of course... but that is it!
So if no one is really happy, maybe it is because "romance+update+expansion" should first of all include better organized bonding sequences, story elements, past relations references (overall gay or straight perspective references from the past) and an actually caring attitude and helpful actions from Judy? What is the point of building an even bigger house on top of the same partially underdeveloped fundament?
Finally, it is important to understand that she is an irreversible lesbian only in your personal playthrough, on your personal computer. It should not even concern other players how these things play out in other playthroughs on other personal computers. Your mind makes everything you went through real and with that your memories and feelings are true and just, but in your own reality - just like in the rest of the real life! Parallel universe is not a sci-fi concept. We deal with it on everyday basis. Our life experience, knowledge and surrounding shape our perspective on things. Therefore, for you (in your reality) apple is a source of pleasure and a trigger for fun childhood memories and for someone else with an allergy it resembles a pretty looking deadly poison - like in a great old fable. Our personal realities are private and exist only for us. Let's not dictate rules for other people's personal realities and be respectful to all the players and not only to a half of them!
Practicing old sexist xenophobic ideas (one way or another) becomes second nature for more and more new generations - not a great agenda to support. All-inclusive Sense8 kind of way feels like a much better path to follow! "We come 1 " ;-)
Thank you Trinixy for sitting in the mud with me! ))
P.S.: Yes, it is not a dating sim, but it is a simulation of reality that is trying to resemble that as perfectly as possible. Mass Effect story somehow managed to be versatile and respectful towards everyone and that did not turn the game into a dating sim. It only enriched and tightened the meaningfulness of everything that was happening and raised personal involvement to the max. I wish this game to get there as well and become something legendary - from just "great with a good potential"!
Making everybody bi would hurt immersion. They put so much effort into bringing the characters to life and defining who they are, one of the best decisions for that was to avoid turn them into walking fuck everything sex machines like in Mass Effect.
Meredith is bi, I wonder if CDPR putting effort into her character could of avoided this backlash, or if people just want to bone Judy (understandable but c'mon).
You would know if she is a bi or not ONLY if you decide to get out of your personal reality and play for a straight V. Don't want to see it, you are not required to play that way. There simply must be a freedom of choice and reward for player's dedication!
People were weeping during playthrough of Mass Effect precisely because it was so immersive and personal. It would not succeed if there was a mandatory choice of romantic interest and only one way to go about it.
Finally, your lesbian Judy WILL always stay with you just the way you like her. Since this is not an exclusively lesbian thread, I express opinion about saving the situation for other big portion of the players. I want justice for the character. After going through all the suffering and saving everybody, he is left alone and forgotten. Devs, what gives?
Agreed. My favorite games flesh out interactions between the PC and the other characters to a seemingly unnecessary extent, thing is, it's not. Making an already invested player more emotionally invested in what it seem like very real characters is why I play games.
With the whole "Go play The Sims" logic you miss out on things like The Citadel DLC from ME3 (a fan favorite) in which you basically throw a party with your crew (by that logic, completely unnecessary when galactic doom is upon us).
You would even loose on sequels like ME2 in which THE WHOLE GAME is about assembling and getting to know your crew. You can rush into the final main mission almost from the beginning of the game, yet the only way to complete it successfully is by recruiting characters into your crew, getting to know them, resolving their unfinished businesses and, to an extend, care about them.
Exactly! And that did NOT make Mass Effect a dating sim in any way. It enriched the story, made a better and more personal connection between the events and the player, raising personal care and involvement of the player to the max.
It really shows how poor the sci-fi adventure (RPG) genre is in gaming industry if only Mass Effect comes to mind, when we need to make an example of things done well. That is why we need more from Cyberpunk 2077. I am ready to wait even for 3 years if necessary. After all, waited my entire life for a mature game like this.
.. To see our couple/friends interacting with the world around them, like walking around the house and making different kind of things.. it would be awesome.. just enough to make them alive as they deserve.. and make us feel very very happy 
