Jackie's story could be improved with a DLC (SPOILERS!)

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So, first, I admit to not having combed the forums for similar topic, so I apologize if I'm... beating a dead horse, but still... Le me propose you this exercise of imagination:

Prologue: Patches improve the AI of npcs and balance the difficulty of the missions, among which The Heist gets the same treatment as (Don't Fear), meaning no saves possible throughout the thing.

In some DLC or another, two things happen:
- the initial collage of missions done with Jackie is expanded to the actual missions, giving players more time to emotionally latch onto Jackie.
- In case of a no-alarm raised or no-combat entered completion, you gain time and, as such, The Heist is given 2 more potential endings as follows:
1. Sending Jackie to Vik will allow for him to be saved, as there's no chase and no precise knowledge of his whereabouts (even more so considering that, worse case scenario, the item they could track is in your head). Seeing how you also suffer a bit and his wounds don't involve being dead for a while, he'll recoup faster and, like anyone else (Dex, Adam, you...) will bail out of NC. As you wake up in your apartment, you'll have a shard on the table along with the keys to his garage. He'll leave you a message than he went out to Mexico with Misty.​
2. Sending Jackie home will have Mama Welles scramble to get him to a ripperdoc, but because no one else but Vik is "the best", your choom will recoup as slow as you, so when you recover, you'll be horn'ed by him to invite you over for a tequila and share his thought of leaving NC with Misty. You'd ride with him to Biotechnica Flats (same place you went through during the Nomad warm-up), where Misty would be waiting for him in the ride he got (yeah, the one in the gameplay trailer). He'd leave you his bike (maybe one of his guns too, why not) and disappear into the sandstorm.​
You could then connect with them via holo, even to complete the dumb tarot quest. You could keep him up to date with how shit of a life you have up to the last mission. Could work with him on your own escape route if taking Panam's ending, could even have Johnny go his way when he goes.​
The huge challenge is to actually turn all the gigs you did with Jackie in the collage into real gigs. On the positive side though, it would be... let's say disconnected from the core game - seeing how it's something that covers the 6 months gap between your active inputs. The two endings would require very little effort. A bit of animation, some voice recordings and some more coding to tie him into all the phases V's gonna go through.
 
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You forgot the possibility to leave the relic in Jackies port and with his death it would awake and overwrite Jackie with Johnny and the whole mainquest would be about save your friend instead of save yourself from being removed from existence.

The thought was to have as little interference with what's already in as possible. What you're saying would mean basically scraping the whole story or worse. Seeing Jackie mumble like a lunatic to the walls. Storyline needn't change, tbh. It's good, albeit barebones... On top of that, later add-ons could have you reunite with Jackie if choosing a certain path and maybe have him as your fixer, if CDPR doesn't condone players having companions :D but that would need to allow players to continue the timeline instead of being catapulted back to the meeting at Embers.

Added a spoiler warning to the title and adjusted it.

Thanks and sorry for the derp! With the gameplay trailer revealing the outcome and the events happening so early in the game it didn't click fast enough that I could ruin it for other people...
 
I really can't see them allowing the option to remove Jackie's death especially as it would require scrapping the whole basis of the current end delamain cab segment.
I really hope they don't add act 1 DLC. I don't have much interest in seeing those petty hijinks turned into missions(Jackie's death still seemed pretty powerful to me anyway) and what i want to see post game expansion to deal with ending.
 
I really can't see them allowing the option to remove Jackie's death especially as it would require scrapping the whole basis of the current end delamain cab segment.
I really hope they don't add act 1 DLC. I don't have much interest in seeing those petty hijinks turned into missions(Jackie's death still seemed pretty powerful to me anyway) and what i want to see post game expansion to deal with ending.

They'd scrape nothing, as that outcome would still be there if you go in all guns blazing. More so, the entire ride would be the same with just no scripted drones chase and Jackie passing out instead. Same dialogues up to Delamain mentioning Jackie's state.

As for the other aspect mentioned, there's more than 1 ending. Some you literally can't deal with, some take you some place where there's no geometry in which to play, some turn you into an idiotic Cpt. Marvel. More important, all kick you back in time. Some endings lack logic, some closure and some (albeit awesome to a point) seem to be written by someone who missed the class about how dumb and dull characters that have everything are - especially in a game where all treat you as a nobody to dump used cars on. That's a lot of work to bring sense, continuity and depth to the endings - with a lot of content to be scraped and rewritten... Dun see it happening.
 
They'd scrape nothing, as that outcome would still be there if you go in all guns blazing. More so, the entire ride would be the same with just no scripted drones chase and Jackie passing out instead. Same dialogues up to Delamain mentioning Jackie's state.

As for the other aspect mentioned, there's more than 1 ending. Some you literally can't deal with, some take you some place where there's no geometry in which to play, some turn you into an idiotic Cpt. Marvel. More important, all kick you back in time. Some endings lack logic, some closure and some (albeit awesome to a point) seem to be written by someone who missed the class about how dumb and dull characters that have everything are - especially in a game where all treat you as a nobody to dump used cars on. That's a lot of work to bring sense, continuity and depth to the endings - with a lot of content to be scraped and rewritten... Dun see it happening.

Delamain refuses to go anywhere but the 'No Tell Motel' as per orders and Jackie has the chip. So yeah it would require changes to the story to facilitate changes to jackie's state.

Most of the V endings could be pulled together akin to the base game lifepaths from their epilogue states.
 
Take the car on the roof, somehow, and meet evelyn parker

Double jump over the fence when you get out at the motel and you guessed it meet Evelyn Parker

Instead of a traditional expansion they could simply put them resources into a branching narrative from the point after the heist, it would be expansion sized anyhow
 
You forgot the possibility to leave the relic in Jackies port and with his death it would awake and overwrite Jackie with Johnny and the whole mainquest would be about save your friend instead of save yourself from being removed from existence.
Relic malfunctions and saves you because you eat a bullet to the head. Jackie would not be saved.
 
His death is inevitable, and this will never change, I don't see feeling in investing more in a character that can't bring much of the Cyberpunk universe, to so many things that have more potential than Jackie.
 
Just have a backup plan for jumping off the top safely would do. or even prepare a drone to take the relic away.
 
honestly, they could have improved the whole thing just by letting us play those 6 months so we can spend some more time with Jaquito. That way his death would hit harder and he'd get a much needed space for more characterization.
 
Relic malfunctions and saves you because you eat a bullet to the head. Jackie would not be saved.

Vic saved Vs life not the relic. If V where not gathered and brought to Vic, V had had died as said in the taxi. So if Jackie would be reanimated with the relic pluged in the chance is high that the relic would have acted similar.
 
His death is inevitable, and this will never change, I don't see feeling in investing more in a character that can't bring much of the Cyberpunk universe, to so many things that have more potential than Jackie.

When you don't have the time or the mood to add more code and more voice acting, you kill characters. This time, I'm pretty sure it was time, especially since they did say that there are other paths you can take in The Heist, didn't they? So the inevitability of Jackie's death hangs on one reply from Delamain - oh, and by the way! Did you notice that your odds of success are presented to you on your way to the Konpeki? The destination written on the chair screens is "No Tell Motel" (another bitchslap to the players right there, those yet unware of how shit will go down. I mean... they could've at least put Konpeki Plaza on your first ride... talking about spoilers, pfft!).

Oh, but you have a lot of the CP universe in this game! In text format... All those shards you get to read and then have a shit time shuffling through? Yeah, there is quite a bit there. I kept saying they could've made the big corpos relevant instead of keeping them all as a footnote (hell! even Saka's just a plot carriage and nothing else). You hear about what Saka's doing in your timeline during a quest, you get to read a lot more about it... but that's it. You also read a lot about what Militech's doing, you can even postulate they're the ones hunting down Max, but that's that... Everything Militech in CP2077 is for decoration purposes (granted, the destroyable kind, but still only decoration).

Back to Jackie, I'm quite sure they had some bits prepared, but unfinished - from the time they were advertising CP2077 as a RPG, not... looter-shooter. And if you look at other RPGs - say DO or ME - you'd notice that your interaction with your friends doesn't stop when their story arc ends. Either because you end up having them as a perma team member (be it for their skill set or their witty comments during missions) or because you can get to chat'em up every now and then. In CP, something like this barely happens with Judy, but Panam will have no reaction as your conditions worsens and you progress towards your inevitable loop point. This makes the relationships shallow af (because nothing's built on enough aside from Johnny, characters, factions, you name it) and has a great contribution in making the main story quite unimportant - even if the biggest kick in the nuts is the "Ok, one more gig" effect of send you flying through time.

Delamain refuses to go anywhere but the 'No Tell Motel' as per orders and Jackie has the chip. So yeah it would require changes to the story to facilitate changes to jackie's state.

Most of the V endings could be pulled together akin to the base game lifepaths from their epilogue states.

Delamain saves you when taken to Vik by Goro, for example. For the branching outcome, 2 lines of Delamain's dialogue need to be altered. And, obviously a couple of yours, where you might say "If he's to have a chance at making it at all, Vik's the one that can give it to him, take him there" or "If he's to die, better it happens with his family". I'm pretty sure that if the game would've released when it was ready, not when the leadership stomped their foot, we wouldn't have had this conversation. CDPR can make good stories and good characters. The paper-thin ones we have in CP2077 are the collaterals of rushing the game out the door in true big corpo fashion. Hell! the way the universe is revealed to us is soooo akin to how Bethesda thought players would like to discover FO76's one. Reading shit in an empty world :D

The endings need not be pulled together. At all. Each can lead to other bits of the story unfolding, you know, like in good ol' TW2 fashion. I remember some developer saying at some point that a player might not be able or willing to go through all possible paths in the game, but they will put them there anyway. But there are changes - big ones - that need to happen if we're to actually keep a consistent timeline.

Panam's ending shouldn't physically take place 2 km away from NC. You decided to leave, so be gone! move the fuckin' tunnel and the lake out of NC's surroundings!. You're done with the merc life on that path, gonna settle down have a kid or 5 - or maybe scroll bd's till the bitter end. Point of no return has to mean something, after all. The Aldecaldos are hunted down after the stunt, so there's no logic in having him linger around NC either. No, if you're to somehow be reinserted into the game on that path, it's on a completely different location, mostly having to deal with the Wraiths if anything and pretty hard to convince those would somehow bring you back to NC. Unless the devs would choose to make another collage of your time with the Aldecaldos and make more characters irrelevant.

On a side note, Panam's ending could put a character on the nomad lifepath. Even if, story wise, there's little to build on from there.

The logical choice, Johnny's ending, one even built on in the game, again has not much ground to run on, if the outro stays the same. But say it happens! You'd play as another character, if anything, making the whole character creation even more irrelevant, making your dialogue choices pointless... even if Johnny would have at least some motivation to return to NC, to continue eroding the corporations there - not that they wouldn't be present everywhere else. However, to land on this path you did cause a pretty big ruckus, so again, a collage would be needed to show what you've been doing for a few years as Johnny, before returning to NC. Disconnecting you from the character completely - as those actions are in no way reflecting your own choices or playstyle.

Side note, Johnny's ending is probably the best to continue the solo character class, as he does have this outstanding conflict with all the big corpos.

Choosing to take up the 6 months gauntlet in the Rogue endings is horrible, as there's nothing left for you to do, aside from the mcguffin that has you bound for the Crystal Palace. You're way above all "major leagues". Nothing can be added to make your existence more relevant in the game's universe.

As a side note that can also be easily applied to all other endings, the biochip's still in V's head, the action takes place in the bowels of where it was made, so just writing your engram on it would kick it into altering your body again to prepare it for yourself. So yeah, there's that. Easy way out for V.

I didn't play the Saka ending, but the lore and the info you have in the game about the going-ons there makes this a good launch pad for continuing the game. Hell even giving you the choice to either helping the corporation to exact vengeance for what has happened in 2023 (talking about Militech nuking NC and blaming it on you) or to destroy them from the inside with the help of whoever's left standing that would be willing to do that (and, funny enough, all are, ey?)

I consider the way CDPR pulled all the lifepath on the very same rail a dick move. Another pointless character choice, with no depth and no effects on the main story whatsoever. Having this happen again at the end would be probably worse than just kicking you back through time. 400 hours in the game and I'm yet to have that feeling of pride and accomplishment, 'cause nothing I did was a reflection of my choices, even less so of my actions (seeing how whatever choices I actually made proved to be irrelevant - aside from the ones on the roof)...

TL;DR Jackie's story can be expanded easier than any other aspect, bringing the game a bit closer to the promised, meaningful choices, rpg. I agree that there are bigger fishes to be caught out there, with more weight in the CP universe than a random, minor league, NC merc. But another minor league merc in NC is our character. We kept trying (or not, depending on one's playstyle) to make friends, but CDPR didn't allow for that. We kept trying to make meaningful choice, but, again, we weren't allowed till the bitter end to do that either. I think Jackie's story could be a small step for us (seeing how it happens in Act 1 and all that), but a huge leap for them to correct that. Proof they didn't really shit on their promises. And, why not, that we might expect more meaningful choices to be introduced with other patches and dlcs.
 
Vic saved Vs life not the relic. If V where not gathered and brought to Vic, V had had died as said in the taxi. So if Jackie would be reanimated with the relic pluged in the chance is high that the relic would have acted similar.
Seems you didn't really follow the game. The reason V survives the shot to the head is the Relic. It malfunctions and activates which releases nanobots that save V's body at the cost of rewriting it's DNA to Johnny's.
 
Seems you didn't really follow the game. The reason V survives the shot to the head is the Relic. It malfunctions and activates which releases nanobots that save V's body at the cost of rewriting it's DNA to Johnny's.

You know, both of you are correct. Delamain saves V after Goro scrubs him off the landfill's floor - well, more like gives him a semblance of a CPR before arriving at Vik's, then Vik does his magic to stabilize V and delay the damage the Relic's gonna cause. But it's the biochip's bots that fix his brain injury at the hand of Dex. However, the Relic doesn't malfunction. It triggers when he flatlines - doing exactly what it was designed to do.

So if Jackie would be to keep the Relic, V would die when meeting Dex and Jackie would die from internal bleeding... or, best case scenario, would be revived with Johnny stuck there. In this scenario, you'd become Jackie's companion (maybe), seeing how Johnny's actually the main character and you - thanks to all the shit dialogue choices - nothing but a worthless vessel. In a way, you're picking up a predermined personality and role - like in TW series - with the character creation being rendered utterly useless (state of things compounded by the lack of 3rd person cutscenes)
 
Seems you didn't really follow the game. The reason V survives the shot to the head is the Relic. It malfunctions and activates which releases nanobots that save V's body at the cost of rewriting it's DNA to Johnny's.

In the Delamain it was said, if Takemura does not act the risky way, V would die either way. The relic might have brought V back but without the help V wont have survived in the end. Or where all of Viks efforts just a joke to round up the cutscenes?
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You know, both of you are correct. Delamain saves V after Goro scrubs him off the landfill's floor - well, more like gives him a semblance of a CPR before arriving at Vik's, then Vik does his magic to stabilize V and delay the damage the Relic's gonna cause. But it's the biochip's bots that fix his brain injury at the hand of Dex. However, the Relic doesn't malfunction. It triggers when he flatlines - doing exactly what it was designed to do.

So if Jackie would be to keep the Relic, V would die when meeting Dex and Jackie would die from internal bleeding... or, best case scenario, would be revived with Johnny stuck there. In this scenario, you'd become Jackie's companion (maybe), seeing how Johnny's actually the main character and you - thanks to all the shit dialogue choices - nothing but a worthless vessel. In a way, you're picking up a predermined personality and role - like in TW series - with the character creation being rendered utterly useless (state of things compounded by the lack of 3rd person cutscenes)

The whole Dex encounter is a joke anyway. My last V had body 20 and punched that mech in the end of the heist to scrap and had the rock perk to resist knockdown.. but Dex bodyguard.. just bypasses gamemechanic and render my V complete helpless.

I so hate this whole prolog part in the motel.. it sucks so big .. as soon as thre comes a mod to remove this from the game or bypass it.. i´ll get that.
 
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