Kofe's Improvements Thread

[kofeiiniturpa]

They said to expect stuff similar to Witcher 3.

Yeah, I remember. I interpreted the implication to be more in the lines of the concept of bigger expansions, not necessarily similiar in design.

Be that as it may, though, personally I think there’s too much ”Witcher” in CP design as it is. All the way to a fault and beyond. But that might be just me.

 

[lelxrv]

Yeah, I remember. I interpreted the implication to be more in the lines of the concept of bigger expansions, not necessarily similiar in design.

Be that as it may, though, personally I think there’s too much ”Witcher” in CP design as it is. All the way to a fault and beyond. But that might be just me.

Nah, you're right. That's most likely what they meant, yet CP77 ended up very similar to Witcher even design-wise. So that's my speculation. I was preaching "expect sci-fi Witcher 3" for the last few years and I was still caught a bit off-guard how little progress is there.

 

[Sild]

Though, again, if Witcher 3 is anything to go by, some characters will make a return one way or another

My money's on Mr. Blue Eyes. An expansion sorrounding him is very plausible as he's a mistery and, apparently, he has his hands, or at the very least, eyes and ears in many different places and events in NC.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

DLC aside fir a moment...

I think the negative effects of low skill levels and unmet stat requirements for guns and other combat forms should be amplified and adjusted.

I can see how it might feel a but janky right now with a controller, but with mouse and keyboard the effects are very minuscule. There is a bit of spread and the sights wander a bit, but it is very... neglicable.

For one the speed of waivering should be faster. And secondly, recoil should actually throw the reticle/sights physically off so that the player needs to correct it after each shot (i.e. with automatic fire, if you do not correct and simply hold the trigger down, your reticle will soon point at the sky). This getting adjusted to feel better via skill increments, would actually feel rewarding abd might make the player without REF or BODY actually lament a bit that he’s actually not good at combat.
For melee and HtH the same can be achieved via higher differences in attack speed and base damage.

The basic idea being that if you do not build your character for a certain combat purpose, it actually feels bad to do it.

If that sounds drastic, its effects can be amplified via difficulty settings. The harder the setting, the more drastic the effects. At easy it’s almost nonexistent, at normal it’s manageable, at hard you really need that combat skill if you wish to do that kind of combat.

And this isn’t something that would require some heavy overhauling of the combat system that’s already there.

 

[Marquis_deShade]

Pretty much any and everything that tickles anyone's idea itch could get got by expanding on Modding Support.
Modders will give you all the things, if the Modding support is robust enough to allow it.

In my opinion, CDPR would do a great and fantastic service to the game if they released "Modding Tools".
If we look at games like Skyrim, and the modding community, we can see how that was fixed, improved, given a whole wealth of new material; new clothes/armor, new weapons, new quests, new npc companions, new locations, and so very much more, even complete overhauls to breathe substantial new life, playability, and re-playability into the game, not to mention all the Unofficial Community Bug-Fix "mods".
Releasing "Modding Tools", opening the game up to the modding community, could take TONS of pressure off CDPR, as well as assisting in pretty much everyone getting everything they want ... even ridiculous stuff because, as mods go, if you don't want, or don't like a mod, you don't have to add it.

Even with as little modding functionality as the modding community has access to enact now, there's some wonderful work being done like "Better Driving", "longer days and nights" ... but, it's very limited right now.

Granted, Mods and Modding can "break" the game is so very many ways, but, that's entirely understood in the community and one of the hazards of modding. That's not any kind of issue, and as actual official updates, patches, and DLCS are released, the Modding community always adjusts.

Expanding on the modding facilities with the release of a modding toolkit, or other means that help the modding community would greatly improve the game and take a great deal of pressure off of CDPR.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Modding Support

”Modders will fix it” is a familiar sentiment, but in my experience, while visual mods can work, systems mods tend to feel glued over and inauthentic. And generally there’s - again, in my experience - more problems than what the mod’s worth (installation, compatibility, bugs, crashes, balancing, etc). And more over, nobody makes a mod specifically to me (or you), except myself, and I do not know how to (of you, I don’t know).

So I prefer an experience intended by the creator. And think that posting ideas is an attempt to sway the developer, who might be reading, into wanting to create something along the lines of what’s being suggested (not to do it verbatim as posted by the forumite).

 

[lelxrv]

DLC aside fir a moment...

I think the negative effects of low skill levels and unmet stat requirements for guns and other combat forms should be amplified and adjusted.

I can see how it might feel a but janky right now with a controller, but with mouse and keyboard the effects are very minuscule. There is a bit of spread and the sights wander a bit, but it is very... neglicable.

For one the speed of waivering should be faster. And secondly, recoil should actually throw the reticle/sights physically off so that the player needs to correct it after each shot (i.e. with automatic fire, if you do not correct and simply hold the trigger down, your reticle will soon point at the sky). This getting adjusted to feel better via skill increments, would actually feel rewarding abd might make the player without REF or BODY actually lament a bit that he’s actually not good at combat.
For melee and HtH the same can be achieved via higher differences in attack speed and base damage.

The basic idea being that if you do not build your character for a certain combat purpose, it actually feels bad to do it.

If that sounds drastic, its effects can be amplified via difficulty settings. The harder the setting, the more drastic the effects. At easy it’s almost nonexistent, at normal it’s manageable, at hard you really need that combat skill if you wish to do that kind of combat.

And this isn’t something that would require some heavy overhauling of the combat system that’s already there.

Another good suggestion. I personally feel it should be drastic. That's one of good things about RPG games. I understand there's a desire not to complicate things for GA, especially for people who look for a good actioner, not some slow and methodical immersive sim experience. But it's another addition that makes you feel that the choices you made matter and you have to live with consequences.

Maybe there's some discussion if the effect can be disabled entirely in options or something, so it has enough COD-ness to it for those who prefer it...

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Maybe there's some discussion if the effect can be disabled entirely in options or something, so it has enough COD-ness to it for those who prefer it...

I was trying to push a sort of double-difficulty slidersback in the day (before 2018) where there was ”combat difficulty” and ”general difficulty” with which the player could adjust his experience (e.g. setting combat difficulty to easy would mean that stats don’t really do much and combat plays like a shooter, while hard would mean that skills are pivotal to a succesful combat encounter).

But since there is only one way difficulty works in the game (making enemies spongier), it could well be repurposed for this sort of thing. Easy means shooter, hard means more RPG like.

And for a continuation to how skills might affect combat controls... let’s think about quickhacks for a brief moment.

As it is, quickhacks are kinda just easy (mostly covert) spellcasting that win you the game. You can empty a while compound of enemies from the other side of the street while eating a sandwhich already at relatively low levels. It’s a nice powerfantasy, but it just requires nothing from the player. That sort of power should be an endgame (or close to) thing where your skills are very high.

What I would do to correct that at least a bit, is I would implement errors for spellcasting hacking.

A chance to succeed that wouldn’t be visible to the player unless s/he has a right perk or implant. A chance that would range from 5-95% (never 0, never 100; and semi-randomly chosen for each enemy/NPC-type) and would check at a random time during the download process and either let it continue to succeed, or or inform the player with a ”Download error” message. And with the latter, enemies would know approximately where the player is, but nit specifically, and would cone searching in ”alerted” mode (this would of course require some AI from the enemies, but I’m supposing AI fixes are coming).
And not only that, but also the distance at which the player can cast his spells quickhacks. That at firstyou might actually need to do a little bit of thinking on how to get close when intending to cast.
While doing that they could also tidy the perk tree up from all the excessive damage perks and the weird x second bonus’ aftera a ”feat” perks and swap them to something interesting and useful (but more on perks at some other time...).

 

[lelxrv]

I was trying to push a sort of double-difficulty slidersback in the day (before 2018) where there was ”combat difficulty” and ”general difficulty” with which the player could adjust his experience (e.g. setting combat difficulty to easy would mean that stats don’t really do much and combat plays like a shooter, while hard would mean that skills are pivotal to a succesful combat encounter).

But since there is only one way difficulty works in the game (making enemies spongier), it could well be repurposed for this sort of thing. Easy means shooter, hard means more RPG like.

If they insist on leaving sponginess as difficulty mechanic, then separate slider for combat is necessary. Because people who want more RPG will be stuck with spongier enemies. Otherwise I'm all for this replacement. It will definitely require much more tuning from the devs, but we're getting rid of stupidly cheap beefing up of HP.

As it is, quickhacks are kinda just easy (mostly covert) spellcasting that win you the game. You can empty a while compound of enemies from the other side of the street while eating a sandwhich already at relatively low levels. It’s a nice powerfantasy, but it just requires nothing from the player. That sort of power should be an endgame (or close to) thing where your skills are very high.

What I would do to correct that at least a bit, is I would implement errors for spellcasting hacking.

A chance to succeed that wouldn’t be visible to the player unless s/he has a right perk or implant. A chance that would range from 5-95% (never 0, never 100; and semi-randomly chosen for each enemy/NPC-type) and would check at a random time during the download process and either let it continue to succeed, or or inform the player with a ”Download error” message. And with the latter, enemies would know approximately where the player is, but nit specifically, and would cone searching in ”alerted” mode (this would of course require some AI from the enemies, but I’m supposing AI fixes are coming).
And not only that, but also the distance at which the player can cast his spells quickhacks. That at firstyou might actually need to do a little bit of thinking on how to get close when intending to cast.
While doing that they could also tidy the perk tree up from all the excessive damage perks and the weird x second bonus’ aftera a ”feat” perks and swap them to something interesting and useful (but more on perks at some other time...).

If we introduce hacking error chance, I believe we need to supplement it with something that's not dependent on chance, but resources. The one thing I hate about everything having % is that it feels like you don't control your game. You just constantly pull the pole of a one-armed bandit. So if you go for a job, you need to stack on some resources that will help you escape, hide, get another chance in case hacking fails.

Limited distance is something that needs adjustment, but I believe it largely depends on how much time the devs will have. Plenty of fine tuning required, because enemy placement and stuff like that becomes more crucial.

 

[yota71]

yeah keep on dreaming

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

yeah keep on dreaming

I’ve been ”dreaming” here for 8 years and almost all of what I had hoped for ended up as the complete opposite.

I have a certain naive resilience in that way, and even I don’t know why I bother.

 

[yota71]

I’ve been ”dreaming” here for 8 years and almost all of what I had hoped for ended up as the complete opposite.

I have a certain naive resilience in that way, and even I don’t know why I bother.

lets first of all focusing on fixing bugs and ai, then maybe, i repeat maybe (a veeeeeeeeeeeeeery big maybe) they will add something as people request, dont even bother now, just saiyng

 

[lelxrv]

yeah keep on dreaming

We're fully aware CDPR doesn't give a ****. No need to rub it in. People were suggesting things for years here. But it seems this forum is mostly created for people to vent.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

lets first of all focusing on fixing bugs and ai, then maybe, i repeat maybe (a veeeeeeeeeeeeeery big maybe) they will add something as people request, dont even bother now, just saiyng

They don’t need suggestions or our focus on AI- or bugfixing. That process is on the way already.

 

[yota71]

We're fully aware CDPR doesn't give a ****. No need to rub it in.

even if they will read the people request, now they dont have time (fixing bugs, lawsuit and so on) maybe in an year for now they will seriously add some of the people request, now this thread is just wasted

 

[lelxrv]

even if they will read the people request, now they dont have time (fixing bugs and so on) maybe in an year for now they will seriously add some of the people request, now this thread is just wasted

These aren't exactly requests. More like suggestions and brainstorming of how to engooden the game without reworking it from ground up. Minimum of new assets. Mostly game mechanics adjustments and rework. Obviously it can't be done in couple of months. It might take a year or two to implement (right for that eventual Enhanced/2.0/Extended/Director's Cut re-release), but it's not unrealistic if they're willing to do something like it.

 

[yota71]

These aren't exactly requests. More like suggestions and brainstorming of how to engooden the game without reworking it from ground up. Minimum of new assets. Mostly game mechanics adjustments and rework. Obviously it can't be done in couple of months. It might take a year or two to implement (right for that eventual Enhanced/2.0/Extended/Director's Cut re-release), but it's not unrealistic if they're willing to do something like it.

then i correct myself they will start to add some of the people request, but now no, there is one thread that collect all the people suggestion, post your idea there, so that will be less dispersive, so they can read them without browsing hundreds of pages

Edit: i dont know if it is possible, its on the mod, he/she can pin the collected requests on the top of hte page and keep it clean

 

[lelxrv]

then i correct myself they will start to add some of the people request, but now no, there is one thread that collect all the people suggestion, post your idea there, so that will be less dispersive, so they can read them without browsing hundreds of pages

Edit: i dont know if it is possible, its on the mod, he/she can pin the collected requests on the top of hte page and keep it clean

It's in Suggestions sub-forum, so if the devs want it, they will find it easily.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

If they insist on leaving sponginess as difficulty mechanic, then separate slider for combat is necessary. Because people who want more RPG will be stuck with spongier enemies. Otherwise I'm all for this replacement. It will definitely require much more tuning from the devs, but we're getting rid of stupidly cheap beefing up of HP.

They could consider making the enemy HP values static (somewhere at an average between easy and hard) on all difficulties, lessening player HP progression and removing a lions share of the damage progression in favor of weapon handling taking care of most of the difficulty curves.

If we introduce hacking error chance, I believe we need to supplement it with something that's not dependent on chance, but resources. The one thing I hate about everything having % is that it feels like you don't control your game.

But it is apt here, since you don’t control how a software works (nor the target resistances). A skill level diminishing the chance to fail is just an abstract of how the character implements it, and makes sure that your overpowered feature is balanced with a bit of uncertainty in its use. So that it’s not a definite win button, but not a death sentence at failure either.

 

[lelxrv]

They could consider making the enemy HP values static (somewhere at an average between easy and hard) on all difficulties, lessening player HP progression and removing a lions share of the damage progression in favor of weapon handling taking care of most of the difficulty curves.

I don't think weapons handling will be sufficient in this case. There needs to be more and more elements, that influence progression. Armor, implants, resistances, regeneration and so on. We're entering territory of complete revamping of the combat system.

But it is apt here, since you don’t control how a software works (nor the target resistances). A skill level diminishing the chance to fail is just an abstract of how the character implements it, and makes sure that your overpowered feature is balanced with a bit of uncertainty in its use. So that it’s not a definite win button, but not a death sentence at failure either.

It makes sense, sure, but I feel there needs to be something that you can rely on outside of chance and direct combat as well. More complex software has a chance to fail, simpler things are reliable, for example. Especially considering the game frequently forces you into a specific gameplay.