[Patch 1.1 Bug] Item randomisation broken (hotfixed in patch 1.11)

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Ahh yes, the "Uber build" that makes all others pale in comparison.
It may come as a shock but some people don't min-max.
Particularing in a game that claims virtually any build is viable.
Seriously? What about a build with mostly COMMON clothing, sub-par cyberware and items, trashing the hardest opponents on VERY HARD constitutes "uber build" to you? You can beat Adam Smasher, the single hardest enemy, on the same difficulty NAKED w/o items, cyberware, quickhacks, by skillful play.

Instead of accusing people of elitism because you can't hack it (pardon the pun) on harder difficulties w/o save-scummed perfect loot, I suggest you change difficulty to EASY and use smart guns if you seriously struggle as you claim.
 
Hello everybody,
I think I figured out something. The game's random generator doesn't seem to work according to time stamp anymore, but according to X, Y, Z coordinates. Because boxes are always in the same place, they always have the same loot.

My experiment goes as follows. I always knock down the same shop guard. As long as it doesn't move, it always drops the same loot as with loot boxes.


Step1. Go to this Location
Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.40.12.45.png

Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.40.21.60.png





Step 2 Kill this Guard by the Ripperdoc next to the Fast travel Point.
Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.36.52.51.png






The result when she doesn't move
Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.37.12.16.png

Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.38.56.13.png





But when she moves.
Cyberpunk 2077 Screenshot 2021.01.24 - 09.38.12.21.png








It would be really nice if someone could falsify the experiment. I think that's what is currently going on with the LOOT ...
 
The main problem is not that you cannot reroll legendary items anymore, but the fact that they are randomized to begin with. If CDPR had taken the time in designing legendary items carefully, meaning "this item would have that many slots and these particular stats etc". in order to make them balanced and truly unique, then if they were static there would be no problem.

As it stands the system is completely broken, since if you are unlucky, a certain playthrough would give crap items and that's that.

In Dark Souls, which has a great loot/itemization system, every weapon/armour etc. has fixed stats, feels unique, and it is only as good as you make it (with your stats/playstyle). CDPR's itemization system is awful for a well designed single player game. It would be ok for an online ARPG like Diablo or Path of Exile, but not for a single player game.
 
I'm of two minds about this. The constant save-scumming (I did it a LOT) in this game felt cheap, and it's good of CDPR to start addressing a very prevalent issue. This obviously is a pretty large incentive to take Technical/Crafting which some consider in a rough shape, in part due to save-scumming which can render it pretty much redundant.

However, this change effectively limits the options for everyone as people tend to go for function over style. And end up looking like a clown a lot of the time - in a game that claimed to value cool looks.

Like others have mentioned, I feel all clothing should be treated at least as "limited iconics", in that the rarity can be increased one or two levels. This would IMO be a better way of restoring relevancy to Crafting. But yeah, doing away with easy save-scumming is a good thing.

In agreement in the main.

However, who does save scumming on legendary armour actually harm in a single player game?

To me, if this is not a bug, as I am sure I read somewhere that it still works on XBox, so it may well may be a bug, then quite frankly it is a petty fix by CPDR, which essentially lowers the fun factor of the game, for a considerable portion of the playerbase. Not to mention the fact that legendary armour crafting is a non starter other than the generic recipes, due to the vendor bug still being there. Sure, we can save scum some more on a first play through to get all the vendor recipes, but who really does that, unless they have cheated on money?

I am certain that CDPR totally missed the ball with how much some players want to min/max their gameplay experience, in the same way that in a single player game, we are all roleplaying in our heads, wanting our characters to play/look/feel a certain way etc. Some of us want to collect everything, and do everything. I am aware that this was not CDPRs vision, who basically expected players to play the game to completion, rinse and repeat a couple of times, and then move on.

In summary, out of all the things that they might consider detrimental to the game, this was the least problematic. Perhaps the duplication and money glitches should have taken priority, as that is essentially cheating, whereas save scumming is hurting nobody or affecting nothing other than my limited leisure time.
 
Hello everybody,
I think I figured out something.

Character Level: 31
Version: 1.1
Platform: PC

At the guard's starting location:

Ripper guard level 31.jpg


When displaced:

Ripper guard level 31 2.jpg


I need to try this at level 50 too. I think generating item type from an npc's xyz coordinates at time of death always happened. I think this is why Matilda K. Rose's drops seem to vary depending on where she is standing when you kill her.

But static containers in the game world like safes, drawers, trunks etc. I'm not sure about. Or maybe they always worked this way and I just never noticed before.

I suspect the change is to the way save games store random seed/seed state and return the random seed output to a previous state on loading. I think prior to patch 1.1, this was not happening correctly or at all, hence why save scumming allowed us to re-randomize certain drop attributes like number of sockets.

I need to roll back to 1.06 to test this theory but I didn't make a backup. Can you rollback via GOG launcher? I know this person is on 1.06 from this post:

Why don't you guys just roll back to 1.06 if your on PC (edited)?
It's not like you have to upgrade to 1.1 if you didn't have any issues with 1.06.

I backed up my saved and game folder before updating, so just had to rename a couple of folders.

I didn't do it for this particular issue, but rather for the nerf in LOD's
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It would be really nice if someone could falsify the experiment. I think that's what is currently going on with the LOOT ...
Did this with a level 10 character. As long as I killed the guard on the spot, the loot would be static - except the rarity of the copperhead gun (from common to rare according to my level). Exactly the same type of equipment as you; bandana and t-shirt. But rarity would always be uncommon. If NPC would move, the gun was identical (copperhead varied rarity) but the loot on the body would be randomized.
 
I need to try this at level 50 too. I think generating item type from an npc's xyz coordinates at time of death always happened. I think this is why Matilda K. Rose's drops seem to vary depending on where she is standing when you kill her.
No, I am sure it is not true! This place is part of a famous XP farm route. I've probably knocked out the NPC 1,000 times. The NPC also dropped cowboy hats and other gear until 1.06. Because an XP farm route is made for efficiency. I never let the NPC move. So I'm 99% sure this is new
 
Wouldn't be a surprise if xyz location based loot was a component of the loot generation engine, it's been used in games for decades now - @Hayte has made me very nostalgic for Diablo 2 with their mention of it here, remember reading lots of threads about the best place to kill bosses for best loot chance 😂
 
No, I am sure it is not true! This place is part of a famous XP farm route. I've probably knocked out the NPC 1,000 times. The NPC also dropped cowboy hats and other gear until 1.06. Because an XP farm route is made for efficiency. I never let the NPC move. So I'm 99% sure this is new

Thats why I want to roll back to 1.06 to test it because I'm convinced I have save scummed containers (specifically container A in Megabuilding H6) that randomized item type.

Did this with a level 10 character. As long as I killed the guard on the spot, the loot would be static - except the rarity of the copperhead gun (from common to rare according to my level). Exactly the same type of equipment as you; bandana and t-shirt. But rarity would always be uncommon. If NPC would move, the gun was identical (copperhead varied rarity) but the loot on the body would be randomized.

Yeah, item rarity was always subject to minimum levels, so for example at level 31, my level is still too low to roll generic legendaries in containers. At level 10, its normal that you can't roll anything higher than uncommon. My level 50 character can, but now it isn't possible to save scum it.
 
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One positive note: This change does NOT affect the random chance of getting quickhacks from access points. Unless you're bugged that is.

In agreement in the main.

However, who does save scumming on legendary armour actually harm in a single player game?

To me, if this is not a bug, as I am sure I read somewhere that it still works on XBox, so it may well may be a bug, then quite frankly it is a petty fix by CPDR, which essentially lowers the fun factor of the game, for a considerable portion of the playerbase. Not to mention the fact that legendary armour crafting is a non starter other than the generic recipes, due to the vendor bug still being there. Sure, we can save scum some more on a first play through to get all the vendor recipes, but who really does that, unless they have cheated on money?

I am certain that CDPR totally missed the ball with how much some players want to min/max their gameplay experience, in the same way that in a single player game, we are all roleplaying in our heads, wanting our characters to play/look/feel a certain way etc. Some of us want to collect everything, and do everything. I am aware that this was not CDPRs vision, who basically expected players to play the game to completion, rinse and repeat a couple of times, and then move on.

In summary, out of all the things that they might consider detrimental to the game, this was the least problematic. Perhaps the duplication and money glitches should have taken priority, as that is essentially cheating, whereas save scumming is hurting nobody or affecting nothing other than my limited leisure time.
You imply you can't harm (others) in a single-player game, therefore cheating is hunky dory. I would agree, but you can in fact harm yourself. First by making you feel compelled to maximize everything, any imperfection you know you could easily change becomes unacceptable. Even when the act of achieving this is tedious. Even though this leads to you snowballing and trivializing combat, effectively making it less enjoyable if you value fairness and challenge.

Let's be brutally honest with ourselves, a big part of the outrage is a sense of entitlement. People have become accustomed to being OP, perhaps even complained or joked about the poor balancing that makes it so easy to become a broken god of battle. They just don't like their toys to be taken away by an absent parent who is seen as disappointing yet again. This should not be conflated with "fun-factor", it is objectively a boring mechanic. However, it touches on what is part of the "fun" with RPGs; succeeding in building, being, the best version of your character. Even if you must cheat a little to get there apparently.

I think I was wrong in assuming this change was specifically about balance/restoring relevancy to crafting, this is very likely a package deal of the efforts to stabilize potato consoles/computers (I think the "Xbox guy" admitted to being confused and later walked back his comments, so take his early claims it is working on Xbox with a grain of salt). Crafting is a bit of a mess and should be fixed on its own accord. Expanding it to buffing vehicles would be a nice bonus for instance.

That said, this brouhaha reminds me why developers tend to shy away from nerfs and oftentimes opt to do a lot more work to buff everything else rather than risk offending the vocal select few accustomed to being overpowered.
 
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You imply you can't harm (others) in a single-player game, therefore cheating is hunky dory. I would agree, but you can in fact harm yourself. First by making you feel compelled to maximize everything, any imperfection you know you could easily change becomes unacceptable. Even when the act of achieving this is tedious. Even though this leads to you snowballing and trivializing combat, effectively making it less enjoyable if you value fairness and challenge.
NO OFFENCE!
You should really not infer others from youself. I personally love minmaxing in games like this. I love to grind the best in slot. And I like going from nobody to OP GOD. [...]
 
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In agreement in the main.

However, who does save scumming on legendary armour actually harm in a single player game?

To me, if this is not a bug, as I am sure I read somewhere that it still works on XBox, so it may well may be a bug, then quite frankly it is a petty fix by CPDR, which essentially lowers the fun factor of the game, for a considerable portion of the playerbase. Not to mention the fact that legendary armour crafting is a non starter other than the generic recipes, due to the vendor bug still being there. Sure, we can save scum some more on a first play through to get all the vendor recipes, but who really does that, unless they have cheated on money?

I am certain that CDPR totally missed the ball with how much some players want to min/max their gameplay experience, in the same way that in a single player game, we are all roleplaying in our heads, wanting our characters to play/look/feel a certain way etc. Some of us want to collect everything, and do everything. I am aware that this was not CDPRs vision, who basically expected players to play the game to completion, rinse and repeat a couple of times, and then move on.

In summary, out of all the things that they might consider detrimental to the game, this was the least problematic. Perhaps the duplication and money glitches should have taken priority, as that is essentially cheating, whereas save scumming is hurting nobody or affecting nothing other than my limited leisure time.
Truthfully this shines a light on just how poorly designed the Crafting/Upgrade system really is and CDPR needs to completely overhaul both the Crafting & Upgrade system they need to remove perk dependacy as well as add a merchant with all the Crafting Blueprints available for purchase.

And here is my crazy suggestion being able to upgrade all armor/weapons from common all the way to Legendary adding the max amount of mod slots per lvl.
 
NO OFFENCE!
You should really not infer others from youself. I personally love minmaxing in games like this. I love to grind the best in slot. And I like going from nobody to OP GOD. [...]
No offence is usually followed by offence in my experience haha. Come on now! I explicitly mentioned the act of min-maxing as part of the fun of RPGs. I can't make universal statements that fit everyone, in the end this would be so generic it would not convey any meaning. But I did make a caveat about people who value fairness and challenge in combat self-harming by pursuing min-maxing to the extent of cheating. You obviously care little for such balance but feel entitled to be OP. [...]

Most people do not love to grind, though many will feel compelled to do so in order to min-max. Most people get enjoyment from being challenged in combat, not being so brokenly OP that you might as well have played with a straight up god mode console cheat.

[...]
 
And here is my crazy suggestion being able to upgrade all armor/weapons from common all the way to Legendary adding the max amount of mod slots per lvl.
Good idea! In addition, they should set the "level upgrade" cost from increasing to FIX.
At the moment you can upgrade a found item (e.g. weapon) by a maximum of 5 levels. After that, it simply gets too expensive. If you find a cool pistol at level 12 that you would like to use until the end, that doesn't really work at the moment.
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@Atletikus: I really didn't mean to attack you. I just wanted to make it clear that "Most Players" are casual gamers, not hardcore gamers. I don't think the "Most Players" want a "Deamon Souls" chanlacing fight, but rather go the easy way. But there is also the loud hardcore minority. The CDPR must also provide, you are absolutely right! More degrees of difficulty settings would be a good option.
 
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Sooo... I tried something with the Item I so desperately wanted:
20210124_130426.jpg

This is at Level 50. It is always exactly the same, no matter what I do.
20210124_130606.jpg

Now back to an old save, pretty much a few hours after The Heist, I explored a lot in Pacifica, but as you can see I have not done the Scanner Mission close to the unique yet (which I did in the other case at 50).
20210124_130950.jpg

If I go there at Level 14, the Jacket looks like this.
Everything is the same except the base item which scales as soon as I approach it.
20210124_132036.jpg

This can be seen here in a save that's Level 32, but I already did the near Scanner Mission.
20210124_134302.jpg

This is at Level 15, I just leveled up, didn't reload anything, and went back to the corpse. The jacket updated its base values according to my level, everything else of course stayed the same. When I now reload the save with Level 15, the item is always identical with this.

I guess if I leveled up directly beside the corpse the item would level with me while I am looking at it.

Conclusion (nothing new here):
- The slots (the most important stat) are fixed now
- The Armor value changes according to your level without reloading a save, but maybe when reloading the area.
- It doesn't matter if you have been to the area before the patch or after. The slots stay the same and the armor value is updated to your current level.

What does that tell me? The game only updates about a third of the data of the item (mods and slots stay the same) each time I come back to the area.
Positive here is, that the game actually gives you something for waiting to collect the fixed item, since the armor value is the one where you pick it up. Negative is the difference in viability compared to 1.06.
If it is intentional I can live with it, but (!) it reminds me of the often cited Diablo 2, where you could get Dual Leech Rings until they were patched out giving everyone who got them before the patch an advantage. Now Cyberpunk is a Single Player game, but that doesn't change the feeling that some people got the short straw now.
 
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No, I am sure it is not true! This place is part of a famous XP farm route. I've probably knocked out the NPC 1,000 times. The NPC also dropped cowboy hats and other gear until 1.06. Because an XP farm route is made for efficiency. I never let the NPC move. So I'm 99% sure this is new

Prior to 1.1 in my other two V play thrus I found that save/reload on an enemy corpse would not change that loot at all like it did with loot boxes and static ground loot. I noted this because I was trying to get specific clothing loot that a couple of bosses dropped to have max mod slots on these two characters. I found that if I wanted to reroll the loot then I had to do replay the fight. The boss would die in a different position typically due to out the fights played out and I would get a different roll of the clothing item. I did not consider that it was the xyz position of the corpse at the time but of course it must have been that that was changing the loot roll. I did certain fights many times to get the clothing item with max slots I wanted. I must have fought Oda over 50 times across those two playthrus.

So I am quite confident that xyz was being used for enemy corpse loot prior to 1.1 to generate RNG at least for certain loot items found on a corpse. Whereas for static loot in boxes and placed on the ground a different RNG seed method was being used that was rerolled with a save/reload.

My guess is that CDPR have possibly optimised the code to use xyz as the primary RNG generator in all cases in 1.1 for performance reasons and maybe this change has been somewhat rushed out without considering what would happen to static loot in boxes and placed on the ground. We as players are seeing the consequence of this change - CDPR either did not see this in their patch testing (how not is a good question..) or they decided that the benefits it gave for performance outweighed the negatives at least in the short term until they could give loot itemisation a complete overhaul.

Why it was not called out in the patch notes can also be read both ways.
 
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Prior to 1.1 in my other two V play thrus I found that save/reload on an enemy corpse would not change that loot at all like it did with loot boxes and static ground loot. I noted this because I was trying to get specific clothing loot that a couple of bosses dropped to have max mod slots on these two characters. I found that if I wanted to reroll the loot then I had to do replay the fight. The boss would die in a different position typically due to out the fights played out and I would get a different roll of the clothing item. I did not consider that it was the xyz position of the corpse at the time but of course it must have been that that was changing the loot roll. I did certain fights many times to get the clothing item with max slots I wanted. I must have fought Oda over 50 times across those two playthrus.

So I am quite confident that xyz was being used for enemy corpse loot prior to 1.1 to generate RNG at least for certain loot items found on a corpse. Whereas for static loot in boxes and placed on the ground a different RNG seed method was being used that was rerolled with a save/reload.

My guess is that CDPR have possibly optimised the code to use xyz as the primary RNG generator in all cases in 1.1 for performance reasons and maybe this change has been somewhat rushed out without considering what would happen to static loot in boxes and placed on the ground. We as players are seeing the consequence of this change - CDPR either did not see this in their patch testing (how not is a good question..) or they decided that the benefits it gave for performance outweighed the negatives at least in the short term until they could give loot itemisation a complete overhaul.

Why it was not called out in the patch notes can also be read both ways.
As I said, I have other experiences.
But it doesn't matter in the end. Instead of pure XYZ, they could also have created a random number at least every 60 seconds. So (XYZ) + (60sec random number) = SEED. From my own experience with programming, I am absolutely certain that something like this does not require any computing power at all. But it doesn't matter either. For me it is FACT that this sucks as it is right now.
CDPR must change that again quickly. All Youtube Vids and Redit posts that I have read / seen so far say that it is really big crap, as it is right now.
 
Good idea! In addition, they should set the "level upgrade" cost from increasing to FIX.
At the moment you can upgrade a found item (e.g. weapon) by a maximum of 5 levels. After that, it simply gets too expensive. If you find a cool pistol at level 12 that you would like to use until the end, that doesn't really work at the moment.
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@Atletikus: I really didn't mean to attack you. I just wanted to make it clear that "Most Players" are casual gamers, not hardcore gamers. I don't think the "Most Players" want a "Deamon Souls" chanlacing fight, but rather go the easy way. But there is also the loud hardcore minority. The CDPR must also provide, you are absolutely right! More degrees of difficulty settings would be a good option.
I like your suggestion as well it would have to be balanced out well though upgrading a full set of Clothing and a Weapon could be expensive.As an old school Rpg player having static loot isnt an issue for me I am ok with it.

All I care about is being able to find my Armor/Weapon for my current build and be able to upgrade them to Legendary.
 
The main problem is not that you cannot reroll legendary items anymore, but the fact that they are randomized to begin with. If CDPR had taken the time in designing legendary items carefully, meaning "this item would have that many slots and these particular stats etc". in order to make them balanced and truly unique, then if they were static there would be no problem.

As it stands the system is completely broken, since if you are unlucky, a certain playthrough would give crap items and that's that.

In Dark Souls, which has a great loot/itemization system, every weapon/armour etc. has fixed stats, feels unique, and it is only as good as you make it (with your stats/playstyle). CDPR's itemization system is awful for a well designed single player game. It would be ok for an online ARPG like Diablo or Path of Exile, but not for a single player game.
ummm I think you missed the point of the game my guy. This is a loot shooter or whenever they designed the game it was suppose to be an open world "RPG" the randomization is what the rpg fans are looking for we don't want static loot. Like Dark Soul is not a game that focus on loot but an action orientated game. I may be speaking for myself but as a RPG fan a key mechanic that I look for is the random item or go for legendary hunting to get the best item. If the game just give you the best item then that defeat the whole purpose for me. Also, for me personally just the fact that by removing this loot system the game is becoming more static. Don't forget before they removed the RPG genre out of the game tag it was suppose to be an open world RPG where you can make choices and have actual impact like fallout NV. Currently the game don't have unique start where the life path of zero impact to your character and have the same choice system that just have the illusion to choices while having fixed romance partner where you can't romance judy if you are not a female, the npc only ahve 2 or 3 unique voice line, no realistic environment and npc interaction. The game was released in 2020 yet are missing every basic open world rpg game had in the early 2000s.
 
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Think that's a good point @thkthk12 makes and it touches on a wider issue with Cyberpunk 2077's identity in terms of game genre - it feels confused to me. It isn't a proper RPG where you get to make meaningful choices around your character's identity particularly/at all, or that affect the world around you in too noticeable a way, many of the "choices" only affect how much of a reward you get from a particular gig, or in rare examples, which ending options you have available.

it also isn't a Diablo style looter RPG in which continued interest and replayability value is derived from the random nature of the loot system and the way you obtain loot - until the recent addition of primal ancients that drop with max stats in their affixes in Diablo III, there was likely always a better version of an item in your build out there, so it kept you coming back even if you didn't want to switch your playstyle around by switching builds. If you did want to try different builds for your class, or other classes, that's just more reasons to come back and farm all the component items for a particular build, and randomised dungeons/monster abilities add a bit more to the experience.

In terms of a lot of ways Cyberpunk 2077 is designed, the randomisation of loot was actually anathema from the start - your character's attributes are static (you can't switch your character's build around in the same way games like Diablo III allow, because the attribute points you choose are locked in as you level - you can switch perks around with Tabula-e-Rasa, but that feels more like an error correction mechanic to me than a proper build changing mechanic - there are plenty of ways to get more perk points even after you hit max level, so if you wanted to max out different trees linked to the attribute points you've chosen, you could do that without buying the perk reset item. If you want to try a build that requires different attribute spread, you have to start a new game); your dialogue choices are static and don't really impact the world at large, which is also static (no dynamic generation of new gigs, no real interaction with the gangs/street cred/police/trauma team/corporations or reputation style mechanics), so why should equipment be anything other than static?

Don't get me wrong, having mechanics to make things feel more dynamic and interesting are important and I think a static loot system isn't that appealing (much more 'endgame' content such as being able to build reputation with specific gangs/get involved in gang warfare, or do extra goody-two-shoes missions for NCPD/TT if you wanted, with all the rippling affect that would have on your reputation as a solo, as well as random loot rewards tied to these would be closer to my preference for the game and what I expected of it), but static loot fits more closely with the current identity of Cyberpunk 2077 as a game to me.
 
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