[Patch 1.1 Bug] Item randomisation broken (hotfixed in patch 1.11)

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how did you make that to happen>? From all the post during the weekend the item should be different but the mods should be the same. Did they do another silent update this morning to fix it.

Because not all item types in the game are procedurally generated. I suspect some items are hand placed or the container has a loot table that consists of only 1 item type. Even if every part of the item - its type, its attributes, the number of attachment slots and the mods were procedurally generated, it will always roll the same type, although not necessarily the same attributes, number of attachment slots or the same type of mods. 8ug8ear's safe always had a Military-grade Aramid Netrunning Suit in it and nothing else. This was true before patch 1.1.

All themed legendary clothing items are either hand placed or the containers that house them have only 1 item type that can spawn in them - the themed legendary, some data shard and whatever else usually accompanies them. We know prior to patch 1.1 that the number of attachment slots and the mods on themed legendaries were procedurally generated because we save scummed to get max sockets and maybe crit mods like Bully and Fortuna.

From what I can tell, there are broadly two types of loot container - static containers and corpses. I think we can be reasonably confident that most corpse loot is procedurally generated using a random seed method derived from the xyz coordinates of the npc at the moment it's health is reduced to zero. When that happens, a death animation triggers and an invisible container spawns at the coordinates where the npc died (the corpse container). Inside the container will be some item whose type and stats are pseudo randomly generated from (I'm assuming) a pre-determined loot table. Because it would be crazy if every npc in the game could drop every item type, at any quality (even with minimum level requirements).

NPCs often carry weapons and the weapon type is not procedurally generated (although the attributes, attachment slots and mods can be). For example, in West Wind Apartments (in Pacifica) there are lots of Scav groups that I farmed for exp in a loop. Most of them are equipped with knives and when you kill them, they will drop knives from common to rare quality. They will not drop any other type of weapon, no matter how often you respawn and kill them. Even at level 50, you will never see one of them drop an epic or legendary knife. The scavs with guns will likewise only drop the gun type they are using (again, always common to rare quality, never epic or legendary).

NPCs may also have hand placed items on their corpse or special rules determining what quality they are - Oda for example will always drop the iconic Katana "Jinchu Maru" and 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. I think the item of clothing will always be an Arasaka Vest but the weapon can change depending on where you kill him. This could be wrong though because I haven't tested it and gotten reproducible results. Matilda K. Rose will always drop 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. Both items can change depending on the coordinates she is standing at when she dies. It does not matter what your player level is. These items will always be legendary quality. As far as I can tell from killing her like 50 times in different locations, she can drop 1 of maybe a half dozen specific types of clothing? She can't drop every item of clothing in the game.

Static containers can be like 8ug8ear's safe and always drop the same item type, or the contents can be procedurally generated. I cannot confirm if the attachment slots randomised in 1.06 but I don't think they ever had mods in them. Where static container loot is randomized, I'm guessing it is done via a different seed method to corpse loot because unlike npcs, static containers do not move. Or maybe this is bugged and that is why loot that we suspect used to be procedurally generated is now the same for everyone. We don't have a good theory about why this is right now.

To test any theory we would need some people to roll back to 1.06 and identify a static container with procedurally generated loot. The only one I have been able to identify as a good potential is container A in Megabuilding H6 because I save scummed the shit out of it in 1.06. I then used Cyber Engine Tweaks to set character level to 50 and got Legendary Boostknit Neotac Pants from it. I then reloaded before I set my level to 50 ( I was level 31 at the time) and left the building without looting the container. The idea being that I would come back when I was level 40 and pick it up when it could roll legendary. Patch 1.1 deployed before that could happen and now Container A always has 'Trendy Sazan Lily Square Glasses" instead. On multiple characters and across multiple players. We don't know why this is happening.
 
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Because not all item types in the game are procedurally generated. I suspect some items are hand placed or the container has a loot table that consists of only 1 item type. Even if every part of the item - its type, its attributes, the number of attachment slots and the mods were procedurally generated, it will always roll the same type, although not necessarily the same attributes, number of attachment slots or the same type of mods. 8ug8ear's safe always had a Military-grade Aramid Netrunning Suit in it and nothing else. This was true before patch 1.1.

All themed legendary clothing items are either hand placed or the containers that house them have only 1 item type that can spawn in them - the themed legendary, some data shard and whatever else usually accompanies them. We know prior to patch 1.1 that the number of attachment slots and the mods on themed legendaries were procedurally generated because we save scummed to get max sockets and maybe crit mods like Bully and Fortuna.

From what I can tell, there are broadly two types of loot container - static containers and corpses. I think we can be reasonably confident that most corpse loot is procedurally generated using a random seed method derived from the xyz coordinates of the npc at the moment it's health is reduced to zero. When that happens, a death animation triggers and an invisible container spawns at the coordinates where the npc died. Inside the container will be some item whose type and stats are pseudo randomly generated from (I'm assuming) a pre-determined loot table. Because it would be crazy if every npc in the game could drop every item type, at any quality (even with minimum level requirements).

NPCs may also have hand placed items on their corpse or special rules determining what quality they are - Oda for example will always drop the iconic Katana "Jinchu Maru" and 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. I think the item of clothing will always be an Arasaka Vest but the weapon can change depending on where you kill him. This could be wrong though because I haven't tested it and gotten reproducible results. Matilda K. Rose will always drop 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. Both items can change depending on the coordinates she is standing at when she dies. It does not matter what your player level is. These items will always be legendary quality.

Static containers can be like the 8ug8ear's safe and always drop the same item type (cannot confirm if the attachment slots randomised in 1.06 but I don't think they ever had mods in them), or the contents can be procedurally generated. I'm guessing via a different seed method to corpse loot because unlike npcs, static containers do not move. Or maybe this is bugged and that is why loot that we suspect used to be procedurally generated is now the same for everyone. We don't have a good theory about why this is right now. To test any theory we would need some people to roll back to 1.06 and identify a static container with procedurally generated loot. The only one I have been able to identify as a good potential is container A in Megabuilding H6 because I save scummed the shit out of it in 1.06. I then used Cyber Engine Tweaks to set character level to 50 and got Legendary Boostknit Neotac Pants from it. I then reloaded before I set my level to 50 ( I was level 31 at the time) and left the building without looting the container. The idea being that I would come back when I was level 40 and pick it up when it could roll legendary. Patch 1.1. deployed and now Container A always has 'Trendy Sazan Lily Square Glasses" instead. On multiple characters and across multiple players.

Yes, I agree with your post and description of how loot is functioning. I am very familar with Oda' dropped jacket :)

I would also add a 3rd type of loot container: a placed item which is static at least as far as tier goes, stats and possibly slots can vary. There are a number of high tier placed items in NC that are not on corpses or in containers. For example there is a legendary revolver usable at level 6 lying on a barrel in Northside at a fight location which makes a great early gun to get. It has always been there in each of my three playthrus. It always rolls with 5 mod slots, is always legendary (I have visited it at L3) but its stats can change depending on player level. There are some other pieces of loot that fall into this category, static with regard to tier and type but stats can change. So I would guess there is no RNG with this loot type at all.

Based on your other post today then it sounds like the mod slots are actually bugged then due to unresolved mod types. Interesting and very good find. That aligns with another person in this thread who mentioned that they added a mod to a looted legendary item and this appears to make those bugged slots appear.
 
Yes, I agree with your post and description of how loot is functioning. I am very familar with Oda' dropped jacket :)

I would also add a 3rd type of loot container: a placed item which is static at least as far as tier goes, stats and possibly slots can vary. There are a number of high tier placed items in NC that are not on corpses or in containers. For example there is a legendary revolver usable at level 6 lying on a barrel in Northside at a fight location which makes a great early gun to get. It has always been there in each of my three playthrus. It always rolls with 5 mod slots, is always legendary (I have visited it at L3) but its stats can change depending on player level. There are some other pieces of loot that fall into this category, static with regard to tier and type but stats can change. So I would guess there is no RNG with this loot type at all.

Based on your other post today then it sounds like the mod slots are actually bugged then due to unresolved mod types. Interesting and very good find. That aligns with another person in this thread who mentioned that they added a mod to a looted legendary item and this appears to make those bugged slots appear.

Oh yeah I know that revolver. Its some NCPD hustle where Maelstrom gangers are fighting with police. I picked that up at level 8 or something and was bummed when I found out how much it would cost to upgrade it 42 levels. There are very few containers in the game that are like that. Most items have a minimum level requirement to spawn as legendary (which I think is level 40. Its definitely 40 for 8ug8ear's safe).
 
Just checked 8ug8ear's safe on my level 26, epic netrunner suit with 2 slots, regular as clockwork. Can't check on my level 50 as I was obviously a greedy ninja there already! I did all the side gigs etc. on my 50 but didn't do a huge amount of exploration in terms of static loot points so if you can point me in some directions I'm happy to check and report back :)
 
On your level 50 character it will be Legendary and 4 attachment slots I'm sure. Can anyone pick it up, quicksave and then use a save editor on it? Need to know what the empty slots are described as.

Like what is this “Unknown_4C882AC5:19”?

Is it some bugged mod that is preventing sockets from being usable? Is it just some identifier for "no mod"? Is it an ID used by the game or is it an ID used by Cybercat save editor to refer to something in the game it doesn't recognise?

If you looted a place already, you can load an earlier save where you are low level and use Cyber Engine Tweaks to Game.SetLevel("Level", 50) . Quicksave and reload and now the loot will scale to your level (well sometimes. The legendary media ocuset doesn't for some reason).
 
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Because not all item types in the game are procedurally generated. I suspect some items are hand placed or the container has a loot table that consists of only 1 item type. Even if every part of the item - its type, its attributes, the number of attachment slots and the mods were procedurally generated, it will always roll the same type, although not necessarily the same attributes, number of attachment slots or the same type of mods. 8ug8ear's safe always had a Military-grade Aramid Netrunning Suit in it and nothing else. This was true before patch 1.1.

All themed legendary clothing items are either hand placed or the containers that house them have only 1 item type that can spawn in them - the themed legendary, some data shard and whatever else usually accompanies them. We know prior to patch 1.1 that the number of attachment slots and the mods on themed legendaries were procedurally generated because we save scummed to get max sockets and maybe crit mods like Bully and Fortuna.

From what I can tell, there are broadly two types of loot container - static containers and corpses. I think we can be reasonably confident that most corpse loot is procedurally generated using a random seed method derived from the xyz coordinates of the npc at the moment it's health is reduced to zero. When that happens, a death animation triggers and an invisible container spawns at the coordinates where the npc died (the corpse container). Inside the container will be some item whose type and stats are pseudo randomly generated from (I'm assuming) a pre-determined loot table. Because it would be crazy if every npc in the game could drop every item type, at any quality (even with minimum level requirements).

NPCs often carry weapons and the weapon type is not procedurally generated (although the attributes, attachment slots and mods can be). For example, in West Wind Apartments (in Pacifica) there are lots of Scav groups that I farmed for exp in a loop. Most of them are equipped with knives and when you kill them, they will drop knives from common to rare quality. They will not drop any other type of weapon, no matter how often you respawn and kill them. Even at level 50, you will never see one of them drop an epic or legendary knife. The scavs with guns will likewise only drop the gun type they are using (again, always common to rare quality, never epic or legendary).

NPCs may also have hand placed items on their corpse or special rules determining what quality they are - Oda for example will always drop the iconic Katana "Jinchu Maru" and 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. I think the item of clothing will always be an Arasaka Vest but the weapon can change depending on where you kill him. This could be wrong though because I haven't tested it and gotten reproducible results. Matilda K. Rose will always drop 2 legendary quality items - 1 weapon and 1 item of clothing. Both items can change depending on the coordinates she is standing at when she dies. It does not matter what your player level is. These items will always be legendary quality. As far as I can tell from killing her like 50 times in different locations, she can drop 1 of maybe a half dozen specific types of clothing? She can't drop every item of clothing in the game.

Static containers can be like 8ug8ear's safe and always drop the same item type, or the contents can be procedurally generated. I cannot confirm if the attachment slots randomised in 1.06 but I don't think they ever had mods in them. Where static container loot is randomized, I'm guessing it is done via a different seed method to corpse loot because unlike npcs, static containers do not move. Or maybe this is bugged and that is why loot that we suspect used to be procedurally generated is now the same for everyone. We don't have a good theory about why this is right now.

To test any theory we would need some people to roll back to 1.06 and identify a static container with procedurally generated loot. The only one I have been able to identify as a good potential is container A in Megabuilding H6 because I save scummed the shit out of it in 1.06. I then used Cyber Engine Tweaks to set character level to 50 and got Legendary Boostknit Neotac Pants from it. I then reloaded before I set my level to 50 ( I was level 31 at the time) and left the building without looting the container. The idea being that I would come back when I was level 40 and pick it up when it could roll legendary. Patch 1.1 deployed before that could happen and now Container A always has 'Trendy Sazan Lily Square Glasses" instead. On multiple characters and across multiple players. We don't know why this is happening.
Appreciate for the info and doing the job the the devs. I am just hoping that this is unintentional because I have been reading comments that with the current 1.1 and the static loot prevents players to complete certain set of clothing. I have doubts that this fix, if it was unintentional, will not be focused anytime soon as the twitter announcement completely ignores the loot changes as an issue. I am thinking about just rerolling to 1.06 and just forget about my progress or even just not play for a long time at this point.
 
Is it some bugged mod that is preventing sockets from being usable? Is it just some identifier for "no mod"? Is it an ID used by the game or is it an ID used by Cybercat save editor to refer to something in the game it doesn't recognise?
Yes, there is one I found from destroying Johnny's pants. When you put it in, the mod socket disappear but still gives you the armor bonus.
cyberpunk mod.png
 
Unknown_4C882AC5:19 is probably a huge 50% roll chance 'mod' (something that passes for a mod in internal processes and with a sole function to disable a slot) because it was easier to implement at the time than variable number of slots.

Still the only thing the multiplayer style RNG shit with no recourse does is wastes the effort of artwork and design on something that will be discarded as unwanted or won't even be seen in game during a playthrough. Singleplayer games don't work that way, and there's no particular need or gain from beta testing multiplayer skinner box rng on us.
 
Ahh so its possible that attachments slots were never randomized at all, which makes sense of many of the observations in this thread so far.

Tentative conclusions based on all the information thus far:

1) Attachments slots are probably always max and always have been.
2) mod type is not randomizing as expected.
3) Item type (i.e. outer torso -> synweave armor-layered psycho bomber) is not randomizing as expected in static containers.
4) Item type is randomizing as expected in corpse containers, likely based on a seed method deriving its output from npc xyz coordinates. Although it is possible to expose the mechanics of this loot generation method by repeatedly killing stationary npcs and saving/loading game state to observe repeat item drops.
5) Variable item rarity is working as expected, in most cases subject to minimum level requirements.
6) Most items scale correctly to player level but a few do not (e.g. the legendary media ocuset) and we still don't know why.

Sounds plausible?
 
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Ahh so its possible that attachments slots were never randomized at all, which makes sense out of a lot of the observations in this thread so far.
Ah yeah.. Thats what I also have seen before patch 1.1 with save-scumming. The more slots an item had, the lower the armor value was.

So maybe this +7 armor mod (Me-thrill) was a thing before patch 1.1. So that mechanic isnt new, but the save-scumming is just disabled.

But we still dont know if this is a bug or intended change.
 
I think mod type not randomizing is very clearly a bug. 5 or 6 people took screen shots of looting the Legendary Media Ocuset (with 1x +6.5 max oxygen mod and 2x Unknown_4C882AC5:19 mods).

Unknown_4C882AC5:19 would seem to be an intentionally designed mechanism to "fake" randomized attachment slots but if mods are not randomizing correctly, then reloading a previous game state will not re-randomize the mod types and therefore will not change the number of attachment slots usable by the player.

Whether or not this is intentional is irrelevant. It creates a serious problem with unique, one of a kind loot, like themed legendary sets. The player has only one opportunity in the entire game to get a themed legendary item and if it has 3x or 4x Unknown_4C882AC5:19 attachments, it will always have zero usable slots for all players on all platforms.

More testing is needed on Megabuilding H6 container A but if everyone is getting Trendy Sazan Lily Square Glasses, I think there is a compelling case to be made that procedurally generated item types in static containers is bugged. Or at least working differently than in 1.06 where this container could generate boostknit neotac pants. This would imply that prior to patch 1.1, the item type in this container was being procedurally generated but no longer seems to be the case in 1.1 (or the method used to randomize item type in this container is bugged).
 
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The iconic weapons can be gotten in game through normal game play you just need to do some things in correct way in some gigs and choosing correct choices in dialogue.
 
Ah yeah.. Thats what I also have seen before patch 1.1 with save-scumming. The more slots an item had, the lower the armor value was.

So maybe this +7 armor mod (Me-thrill) was a thing before patch 1.1. So that mechanic isnt new, but the save-scumming is just disabled.

But we still dont know if this is a bug or intended change.

I remember seeing these Me-Thrill mods prior to 1.1 in my inventory when I was crafting Johnny's gear I think on my first V although I am not completely sure when they appears but they were definitely present at some point. They were appearing as I crafted the gear up to legendary. I just deleted them after awhile since their bonuses were never as good as arma mods.

It certainly makes sense now that these were some sort of mod that added a fixed armour bonus and used up a mod slot and somehow made it vanish.

Given the state of the game then I wonder if what we are seeing are two different mod designs to some degree, overlapping with each other both functionally and cosmetically, one older design that still has content and the later design that was meant to supersede it and the latest changes in 1.1 have had an impact due to what appears to be spaghetti code, that last bit is obviously a pure guess on my part but its clear that CP2077 has alot of unfinished systems.
 
Ahh so its possible that attachments slots were never randomized at all, which makes sense of many of the observations in this thread so far.

Tentative conclusions based on all the information thus far:

1) Attachments slots are probably always max and always have been.
2) mod type is not randomizing as expected.
3) Item type (i.e. outer torso -> synweave armor-layered psycho bomber) is not randomizing as expected in static containers.
4) Item type is randomizing as expected in corpse containers, likely based on a seed method deriving its output from npc xyz coordinates. Although it is possible to expose the mechanics of this loot generation method by repeatedly killing stationary npcs and saving/loading game state to observe repeat item drops.
5) Variable item rarity is working as expected, in most cases subject to minimum level requirements.
6) Most items scale correctly to player level but a few do not (e.g. the legendary media ocuset) and we still don't know why.

Sounds plausible?

I think this is hard to see on PC because most PC are fast enough.

But here is how loot appears in all the boxes:
1. There is a soda can or other trivial stuff for you too loot if your too low level to find gear.
2. If you are above a certain level this trivial item is mostly replaced with something that could be used for your level.
3. Even the boxes with fixed loot like the fixer skirt/shoes had a trivial item in the box and the following happened if your higher level when looting, the trivial item mostly a soda can is replaced by a cothing item it can be rare or even epic depending on your level but it is at once swapped for the legendary that is supposed to be there.
This is why we could save scum for different mod slots or even changing an item from epic to legendary if we high enough, Because replaceing the trivial item is like a drop from npcs and therefor randomized.

Why this could be seen on console is because when you started to get close to game crashing it started to run very very slow and you could actually see the items change in the box. It was still very quick but this is how loot is put in the boxes.
This is also a very strange way of doing it and very bad way of doing it form taking up cpu resources.

I don't know about the slots but putting in a mod that hide the slot is most likely a lazy way of randomizing things.

I liked top save scum epics to get legendary to collect different looks, because I like to do Katana and I'm not good at dodging so I need my armor ;)

Was also a reason to keep playing and collect more pieces but that is now then impossible and no reason to play anymore.
 
Why this could be seen on console is because when you started to get close to game crashing it started to run very very slow and you could actually see the items change in the box. It was still very quick but this is how loot is put in the boxes.
This is also a very strange way of doing it and very bad way of doing it form taking up cpu resources.

Huh, now this is really interesting. Anyone on last gen console manage to catch this behaviour on video? I'm on PC otherwise I'd do it myself. I guess I could underclock like crazy and see what happens?
 
I remember seeing these Me-Thrill mods prior to 1.1 in my inventory when I was crafting Johnny's gear I think on my first V although I am not completely sure when they appears but they were definitely present at some point. They were appearing as I crafted the gear up to legendary. I just deleted them after awhile since their bonuses were never as good as arma mods.
Well, you can upgrade it to legendary with Mod. It actually give you 330 armor but armadillo only give 270.
 
Well, it looks like I was wrong.

I still have 3 items of “Me-Thrill” in inventory (it is possible to obtain them not only from Jonny’s items BTW) and tried to install it in my 4-slot t-shirt. It became 3-slot in game with some added armor (effect I seen before on less-than-max-slot items when save-scumming).

In save editor it shows as Unknown_4C882AC5:19
 
Well, it looks like I was wrong.

I still have 3 items of “Me-Thrill” in inventory (it is possible to obtain them not only from Jonny’s items BTW) and tried to install it in my 4-slot t-shirt. It became 3-slot in game with some added armor (effect I seen before on less-than-max-slot items when save-scumming).

In save editor it shows as Unknown_4C882AC5:19

Yeah this has already been addressed here:

Unknown_4C882AC5:19 is probably a huge 50% roll chance 'mod' (something that passes for a mod in internal processes and with a sole function to disable a slot)

The current working theory is that the number of attachments slots have never been randomized, before or after patch 1.1. Legendary torsos always have 4 attachment slots, all other legendary clothing always have 3.

Mod type was being randomized prior to 1.1 and we know this because we save scummed to get Bully + Fortuna but we are not observing this behaviour post 1.1.

We think the way items had variable sockets before was due to Unknown_4C882AC5:19 "Me-Thrill" mods. As phaerakhkaryn says, these are probably mods with a high occurrence rate whose sole purpose is to disable the attachment slot. To the player, it looks as if legendary torsos can roll anywhere from 0 to 4 slots but in reality, it always has 4 slots but mods were being procedurally generated which disabled some or all of those slots.

So when you find a 1 socket legendary outer torso, we can guess with a high degree of certainty that it is in fact a 4 socket legendary outer torso but 3 of the attachment slots are populated with Unknown_4C882AC5:19 mods. You can confirm this by picking the item up, saving your game and editting it with a save editor.

Because mod type does not appear to be randomizing correctly post 1.1, we think this is the reason why save scumming sockets no longer works.
 
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So when you find a 1 socket legendary outer torso, we can guess with a high degree of certainty that it is in fact a 4 socket legendary outer torso but 3 of the attachment slots are populated with Unknown_4C882AC5:19 mods. You can confirm this by picking the item up, saving your game and editting it with a save editor.

and this would explain why the number of mod slots an item visibly has is inversely proportional to its observed armour value which has been obversed both before and after 1.1. Those "unknown" mods boost armour and remove a slot.
Great job summarising all of this and pulling all the various observations together. Hopefully CDPR will at some point communicate whether this is a bug or intended (hopefully the former). I have not been on this forum very long but from scrolling through a bunch of recent threads then it appears that no one from CDPR ever replies.
 
I didn't do anything, it was Mordhar, GuilmonexK and phaerakhkaryn that found the pieces of this puzzle. And this whole thing started because BRod_01 had a crazy idea that turned out to be correct, necessitating a complete rewrite of the original post. I would never have guessed it worked this way. Not in a million years. I used to think socket count was seed generated and the armour thing I just handwaved away as "spaghetti code magic".

There is absolutely nothing posted in this thread that requires a developer comment, nor should they post a comment. All we need to do is verify each others findings by comparing observed results with the expected result, determine if it is reproducible or not, submit an accurate bug report and the developer comment will be in the subsequent hotfix notes as "fixed an issue with...". I don't want or need to talk to a developer.
 
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