Or maybe...just maybe...people have simply gotten used to being able to see their characters in pretty much every rpg/adventure game EVER, even going all the way back to the amiga days. Hell even in the old text-parsing Hugo games way back when you could see your character. The 1st person perspective as a focus has it's place...a role playing game with this much emphasis on character customization isn't it.
I think this is a point a lot of people haven't quite managed to work out how to articulate, and so we get endless threads about cut content, missing features and so forth.
It's not about one missing feature or another. It's the fact that CDPR had an exciting, ambitious vision. This is what we were excited about. We were enthusiastic and excited about that vision because we knew they were too, and we believed that CDPR had a level of care and attention to detail to their work that would allow them to achieve this vision. All of the disappointment is because it seems like they gave up on their vision and neglected to tell the community that they were settling for another Witcher-style open world adventure. What they produced (bugs aside) is a great story with fantastic characters and voice acting, as well as fun missions and mechanics, and it has definitely sucked us all in, but it's NOT the vision that they convinced us the game was trying to implement.
So everyone waiting on that vision has now had to try and reconcile what they thought CDPR was trying to do with what they actually ended up doing. At the moment, nobody knows where CDPR stands with respect to that grand ambition they sold us, because they have said absolutely nothing about it one way or the other. Do they want to try and approach that vision? Did they give up? Are they even going to try? Have they changed direction and are using the game they actually delivered to try and tell us this? Are they a victim of the same pollution of vision that almost always seems to end up infecting a profit-driven company? Only time will tell, I guess.
Personally I am disappointed by the fact that they can't be honest with us because lawyers and shareholders have a gun to their heads and care more about the endless extraction of dollars from everything than the value of actually pursuing an honest vision. I'm also disappointed that they anchored themselves to last-gen consoles. It raises questions about how much they'll ever be able to do with the game, regardless of what they might want to.
Yes, unfortunately, too few are able to articulate their own disappointment without letting the emotional response take over. It goes back to what I said earlier, it's basic human behavior. It shows they care about the game, it's success and more specifically that original vision that CDPR presented to us years ago.
I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. More specifically, investors. There is this misconception that investors are the reason behind the silence. I think that's wrong. The lawsuits certainly play a part in it but as far as I know, as of today, there are still absolutely no investor stepping up to be lead plaintiff in any of the lawsuits and the February limit is nearly here.
There could be a few reasons but suffice to sum it up with they either don't think there is money to be made or they're perfectly content with the game's sales and the incoming dividend they'll receive. Very succinct and vastly oversimplified summary but that's the gist of it.
In my opinion CDPR isn't keeping quiet to avoid problems with the investors specifically. They certainly don't want to give them a reason to step up as lead plaintiff. I'd argue that CDPR is keeping quiet because they know what the gaming community is. Which is to say, very aggressive, prone to interpretation and more importantly, rarely satisfied. I'm pretty certain that even if there were no pending lawsuits they'd still be mostly silent.
I'm still hopeful that CDPR will bring the game closer to their original vision in due time. I wish they'd talk to us but I frankly don't blame them for sticking to a typical PR response, i.e., a rather bland apology.
The sex scenes in first person are really really weird to me... I don't like staring during sex LOL why can't they just make them quality 3rd person cut scenes like the ending.
I play exclusively in Third Person view, switching to First for combat then back, and similarly drive in third also, using the TPP mod available on nexus which is the 'one key' solution mentioned earlier ( but it is player made). It's not yet 'perfect' but it's on already its 8th version and for me, it does almost everything I need to greatly improve my enjoyment of the game on PC and I have had virtually no bugs (other than face and head gear still not showing up) I agree that this was a 'how hard can it be' job for CDPR to include a view toggle but clearly they chose not to include it, and I think that was a big mistake.
TBH, third person view of my character and clothes, seeing my physical avatar position amongst the NPC and in the world setting is a deal breaker for me, as I simply would not enjoy the game much without it.
I completely agree with OP about the first person. I genuinely would almost never play in third person if they gave me the choice. I have felt so much more like I *am* V in this game than I have ever felt in any other game. Before playing I thought no third person would bum me out. After playing I went and played Mass Effect again(to date, my favorite RPG series ever) and third person felt detached and awkward in a way that it never has before. It's the difference between 'playing with' a character and 'being' the character. I do strongly feel that they need to make V show up in all reflections as if she is an NPC though because walking up to a reflective surface and seeing everything but myself flawlessly reflected in it (I play exclusively with RTX on, the reflections are *insane*) is very jarring. I'm not a vampire, I should have a reflection.
As for the barber shop vs mirrors thing. Both is a simple compromise. You go to the stylist/barber and you get a long, mid, short or very short hair style. Then later you can go to a bathroom or home mirror and change it to any of the available styles in the currently equipped category. To change categories, you need to go back to the stylist/barber.
I made a suggestion in my own thread of "semi third person" feature, basically players can choose to go full 3rd person while exploring (walking, jogging, running, jumping, parkour, etc), meanwhile when it comes to combat & important scenes/dialogues, it will automatically turn into first person to get that immersion. With this method, players still can immersed themselves with the world, while also get the satisfaction of creating character V they wanted visually. This is basically the method that exist in Destiny 2 too, as player go third person in lobby mode & interact with other players.
For more more options of hairstyles & heavy mods of cyberwares, mods are the only way for player to able to do so, as of now. For examples, here are some of the mods that provides semi third person & heavy modifications on appearances, including unobtainable NPC outifts:
Tbh in this day an age as far as im concerned there is no reason to not give the player both FP and TP views easily switchable with a toggle in games like CP
"its more immersive" doesn't cut it with me an all i hear is "we cant be arsed doing player animations"
Also while I been a long long long time supporter of CDPR and their games (hence the senior tag) This is the last pre order I make for any game they force FPP on in the future.
ANY CDPR game with forced FPP will be moved to $30 or less bargain bin and ill just wait for that to happen (I already do it with EA games but they on a $10.00 or less policy and that $10.00 must be GotY type release that includes all DLC in the $10.00 price tag)
You are 100% correct. In todays day and age there is no excuse what so ever to not offer 1st and 3rd person perspectives for players.
And yeah, the whole "more immersion" excuse from the 1st PP crowd is so much BS its painful how transparent their real reasoning is.
I have no clue why but the FPP crowd seem to really take it personal that most players simply not interested in playing games in the same perspective option as them.
Personally I dont care if someone else plays FPP or TPP
thats up to each player to decide for themselves
but they should have the choice.
That may be true, but I think the core point is that we, as humans, feel connected to our faces. I would say that if CDPR chooses to completely avoid any further third-person scenes for V, then at the very least work on a more efficient implementation for character reflections so we can see ourselves in clothing shop mirrors, reflective windows and so on, and have it be authentic enough that if we're standing in front of a reflective surface while a phone call or NPC interaction is taking place, we can see V talking, moving her lips, etc. It's subtle, sure, but attention to detail like this? THIS is the difference between good and GREAT. I daresay that this would also provide a sufficient foundation for the modding community to give additional third-person capabilities to those who want them.
part of the thing is V is a more heavily RP character, this means the more they show of V third person, the less V is accurate to the V in people's heads. Especially Vs face, like If V smiles, while the player thinks v is disgusted... I mean the game is far from perfect Rp, But I think they were able to make people feel like V was inline with player's perception of V most times.
I think they should probably actually do most of the third person animations, and then photo mode and mirrors that are actually on can do the job when players want to step out.
I made a suggestion in my own thread of "semi third person" feature, basically players can choose to go full 3rd person while exploring (walking, jogging, running, jumping, parkour, etc), meanwhile when it comes to combat & important scenes/dialogues, it will automatically turn into first person to get that immersion. With this method, players still can immersed themselves with the world, while also get the satisfaction of creating character V they wanted visually. This is basically the method that exist in Destiny 2 too, as player go third person in lobby mode & interact with other players.
For more more options of hairstyles & heavy mods of cyberwares, mods are the only way for player to able to do so, as of now. For examples, here are some of the mods that provides semi third person & heavy modifications on appearances, including unobtainable NPC outifts:
problem is a lot of the immersion is also in the running/walking/parkour. I generally prefer third person, if I have the option I will use it. But having played the game mostly first person, it would have lost a lot of immersion.
If the animations where really good, it would probably gain cool points, and a better understanding from the outside, but give up a lot immersion
Also while I been a long long long time supporter of CDPR and their games (hence the senior tag) This is the last pre order I make for any game they force FPP on in the future.
ANY CDPR game with forced FPP will be moved to $30 or less bargain bin and ill just wait for that to happen (I already do it with EA games but they on a $10.00 or less policy and that $10.00 must be GotY type release that includes all DLC in the $10.00 price tag)
You are 100% correct. In todays day and age there is no excuse what so ever to not offer 1st and 3rd person perspectives for players.
And yeah, the whole "more immersion" excuse from the 1st PP crowd is so much BS its painful how transparent their real reasoning is.
I have no clue why but the FPP crowd seem to really take it personal that most players simply not interested in playing games in the same perspective option as them.
Personally I dont care if someone else plays FPP or TPP
thats up to each player to decide for themselves
but they should have the choice.
not really. First or third person done well generally means different focus on visual development. And thus different costs of production. FPP games generally need higher res textures, and detail, where third person needs better animation. Doing both means sacrificing something from the game budget. Its up to developers to make that decision.
games are also art, and a game is entitled to present its vision. You are entitled to op out if their vision does not appeal to you. But the game creators should be the one to make these decisions, instead of watering things down to try to appease all the different types of players in the world.
It's not about one missing feature or another. It's the fact that CDPR had an exciting, ambitious vision. This is what we were excited about. We were enthusiastic and excited about that vision because we knew they were too, and we believed that CDPR had a level of care and attention to detail to their work that would allow them to achieve this vision. All of the disappointment is because it seems like they gave up on their vision and neglected to tell the community that they were settling for another Witcher-style open world adventure. What they produced (bugs aside) is a great story with fantastic characters and voice acting, as well as fun missions and mechanics, and it has definitely sucked us all in, but it's NOT the vision that they convinced us the game was trying to implement.
Not "we"...you. The majority were enthusiastic for a Cyberpunk story driven game which they delivered on. I will criticize them for the bugs but beyond that you seemed to have been imagining something else. You keep saying "grand" ambition and "Vision" that they sold you on without saying what exactly that is.
You mentioned them doing something "revolutionary" but then you emphasize third person view and seeing Geralts face in the Witcher. There's nothing revolutionary about TPP. If anything them doing this in strictly First person is stepping away from the norm and thinking outside the box. The choice between the two should be left up to the developers because there's always going to be a trade off. FPP is better for immersion and that's clearly what they were going for and is more fitting for a cyberpunk game.
Nah. The attachment (myself included) people have with this game has much more to do with the fact that
1) Their previous games, especially TW3 was so good and critically acclaimed
2) Their reputation as a company (remember all the glorifying memes and reviews about them giving free DLCs etc. and being DIFFERENT)
3) The ridiculous hype
Taking all these in to account, people (again, myself included), cannot accept that in the end this was just another game. A GOOD game, but that's it.
Nah. The attachment (myself included) people have with this game has much more to do with the fact that
1) Their previous games, especially TW3 was so good and critically acclaimed
2) Their reputation as a company (remember all the glorifying memes and reviews about them giving free DLCs etc. and being DIFFERENT)
3) The ridiculous hype
Taking all these in to account, people (again, myself included), cannot accept that in the end this was just another game. A GOOD game, but that's it.
I think the OP is talking specifically of how much people appear invested in the V character, and want more V centric stuff, and to just hang out with V.
It might be overstated though, many people seem to think V is unimportant in the game
I think the OP is talking specifically of how much people appear invested in the V character, and want more V centric stuff, and to just hang out with V.
It might be overstated though, many people seem to think V is unimportant in the game
I think many more people were far more invested in Geralt to be honest. Our investment to V, is linked to our investment to the game in general, which is linked (IMO) to the reasons i 've stated. V is completely unimportant to me personally. The characters surrounding him/her are far more interesting.
I think this is a point a lot of people haven't quite managed to work out how to articulate, and so we get endless threads about cut content, missing features and so forth...
I very much agree in some ways it almost feels like things were included solely to increase attention.
"Cyberpunk is a mature, visceral experience and as such, it will let you explore a variety of different interactions with the game world, and as you just saw, its people. " - quoted from the gameplay reveal.
While they did technically do enough to make that a true statement, it is like they did exactly enough then moved on. Making it feel pretty hollow IMHO. Then the little thing like the adverts for cool body mods or the npcs that have tons of them that we can't. To the misc items like the BD's we can't use the 'glow in the dark lipstick' or 'phosphorus inlays' that only exist to be scrapped for sold hint that someone at least brainstormed this stuff being in the game but only the inventory assets ever got made and seeing them in my inventory kinda stings.
Nah. The attachment (myself included) people have with this game has much more to do with the fact that
1) Their previous games, especially TW3 was so good and critically acclaimed
2) Their reputation as a company (remember all the glorifying memes and reviews about them giving free DLCs etc. and being DIFFERENT)
3) The ridiculous hype
Taking all these in to account, people (again, myself included), cannot accept that in the end this was just another game. A GOOD game, but that's it.
The fact that your experience is like that doesn't mean that other people will have the same. Speak for yourself. I am enjoying the game as it is.
It has absolutely nothing to do with witcher 3 or CDPR. In fact I got interested in the game in 2012 so maybe witcher 2...... But you probably did not play it as it wasn't popular enough.....
Anyways this game is great in my opinion. Technically flawed and bugged but great none the less. And I like it more than the witcher.
When will people finally stop confusing their personal opinions with facts )
Or maybe...just maybe...people have simply gotten used to being able to see their characters in pretty much every rpg/adventure game EVER, even going all the way back to the amiga days. Hell even in the old text-parsing Hugo games way back when you could see your character. The 1st person perspective as a focus has it's place...a role playing game with this much emphasis on character customization isn't it.
there isn't that much focus on char customization though. Once you get into nodding, then you actually want to see the character more.
See, I get it, I think seeing creative characters cybered/futured up/ seeing V, does a lot for setting the scene, and making you excited about it. But I think FPP does a better job putting you in it. Like I said I prefer third person, but fpp definitely dramatically increased the feeling that you were the person this stuff was happening to.
like I said, mirrors and cameras, maybe a video clip mode/replay drone. After all just because you are V, doesn't mean V isn't vain/voyeurustic. The future version of selfie culture. drone replays.
however that means tons of development, so its unlikely. maybe next game 12 years from now
The fact that your experience is like that doesn't mean that other people will have the same. Speak for yourself. I am enjoying the game as it is.
It has absolutely nothing to do with witcher 3 or CDPR. In fact I got interested in the game in 2012 so maybe witcher 2...... But you probably did not play it as it wasn't popular enough.....
Anyways this game is great in my opinion. Technically flawed and bugged but great none the less. And I like it more than the witcher.
When will people finally stop confusing their personal opinions with facts )
Calm down,i am just stating an opinion, same as the OP. Also before you make assumptions, i was waiting for THE WITCHER 2, since 2009, and i actually prefer it to the TW3.
the way first-person has been integrated into the game has allowed a sense of immersion in the character that would be lacking if it were only in third person.
No. I'm not immersed with V. When I have to turn the character around to see someone talking. The game forces my character to turn to a character, randomly. Like did they make those cut scenes first. Than dropped the forced movement. And didn't bother to remove them from the already made ones? Make up your stupid mind game. When I never see the characters face 99% of the time. It causes Johnny to be even more important over the MC. Since we see him all the time. Or the crappy sex scenes. Because animating mouths in games is the hardest thing to do. People are talking about the game. Because of what was promised, lost, and the potential it has.
When they finish MP. They better well port all the 3rd person animations over to the main game. So I can do everything in 3rd person. Minus the sitting down and sex cut scenes.
The senior devs wanted third person because they believe 3rd person was the way the game should be made but when Adam Badadowski took over he demanded it be first person only (as well as other changes probably) causing the departure of many senior devs. Some people seem to agree with Adam, others do not. Obviously it doesn't need to be explained that when the quality of perception is described it cannot be described as fact for anyone but the experiencer and what you've done is you've stated a subjective opinion as a fact and reduced the opinions of others to fit your narrative.
The senior devs wanted third person because they believe 3rd person was the way the game should be made but when Adam Badadowski took over he demanded it be first person only (as well as other changes probably) causing the departure of many senior devs. Some people seem to agree with Adam, others do not. Obviously it doesn't need to be explained that when the quality of perception is described it cannot be described as fact for anyone but the experiencer and what you've done is you've stated a subjective opinion as a fact and reduced the opinions of others to fit your narrative.
you are right, there us benefits to each side. But a decision had to be made, and even though I generally dislike fpp i can't deny it created a very different experience.
so I can't say that the choice was a bad one, or that the creator didnt have something they could only accomplish with First person.
now it is possible, a different vision with third person could work well in a different way. But decisions have to be made, subjective or not.
TPP is going to feel more immersive to some and less immersive to others. The same goes for FP.
It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.
I'm frankly amazed it's a point of contention. One or the other will always be better for you specifically and no one can speak for others over such subjective things. A toggle is the best way to go.
I'd rather experience combat and conversations in first person but I'd rather explore and move around in third because I feel more immersed that way personally.
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