DO YOU WISH BOSS FIGHTS MUCH HARDER & DEADLIER? (ALSO INCLUDES CYBERPYSCHOS)

[BigRock22]

all of them are really weak except oda
need more difficulty without adding hp

Oda was the only enjoyable fight and the arena itself was also fairly interesting compared to the rest.

I was really looking forward to Adam Smasher but even with an half-arsed build I still managed to steamroll him.

The problem is that the number of Attribute and Perk points you are given is ridiculous and allows for overpowered builds. 71/100 attribute points with the potential to earn hundreds of perk points is outrageous. You can nearly max multiple perk trees.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I would of liked to see the cyberpsycos be much more difficult.

 

[gregski]

Sure, why not, but not in terms of HP pool but in terms of better scripted encounters and enemy behaviour.

 

[ottffss1]

The expansions in The Witcher 3 (HoS and BaW) had well designed boss fights and enemies, so I don't know what happened here.

 

[Crusher93]

If the boxing quests are harder than the final boss - that should tell you enough about the balance.
Bosses definately should be harder to beat cause the game has big balancing issues, so it's not a matter of "we would like the game to be harder" but rather "we would like the game to be balanced" so it's actually at least a little of a challenge all the time until the end of the game even on 50 lvl maxed out character. The Witcher 3 was balanced enough that it was an actual challenge from time to time even on normal difficulty if I remember correctly. That's how it should be.

 

[CS554]

If the boxing quests are harder than the final boss - that should tell you enough about the balance.

Boxing guests has been bugged from the launch so it's kinda difficult to see them as valid comparison point.

I might perhaps like some Cyberspycho boss fights being a bit more difficult, but then I played with a deck build. Don't know how to make them more difficult without making them bullet sponges and make that also work with Sandevistan.

 

[Endoftime55]

For further info, the list are:

Spoiler: Story Boss Fight

1. Royce
2. Arasaka Mech
3. Woodman (possible encounter 1)
4. Sasquatch
5. Woodman (possible encounter 2)
6. Akira
7. Placide
8. Sandayu Oda (Cyber Ninja)
9. Adam Smasher

The Cyberpsychos fight list are:

Spoiler: Cyberpsychos

1. L.T. Mower - Lieutenant Mower
2. Second Chances - Zion Wylde
3. The Wasteland - Euralio Alma
4. House on a Hill - Russel Greene
5. Discount Doc - Chase Coley
6. Where the Bodies Hit the Floor - Ellis Carter
7. Six Feet Under - Lely Hein
8. Demons of War - Matt Liaw
9. Ticket to the Major Leagues - Alec Johnson
10. Phantom of the Night City - Norio Akuhara
11. On Deaf Ears - Cedric Muller
12. Letter of the Law - Gaston Phillips
13. Seaside Cafe - Dao Hyunh
14. Under the Bridge - Tamara Cosby
15. Smoke on the Water - Diego Ramirez
16. Lex Talionis - Ben Debaillon
17. Bloody Ritual - Zaria Hughes

ALSO, DO TELL the reasons of your choosing on the thread if you want to.
Thanks.

Bosses should be auto-balanced after a min condition according to player difficulties.

 

[Crusher93]

Boxing guests has been bugged from the launch so it's kinda difficult to see them as valid comparison point.

I might perhaps like some Cyberspycho boss fights being a bit difficult, but then I played with a deck build. Don't know how to make them more difficult without making them bullet sponges and make that also work with Sandevistan.

Hard to tell what is bugged and what is not bugged in this game

 

[Shoklen]

I don't mind added scripts - but just no "insta-death" scripts; hate those like I feel most do... That was the worst while raiding in mmos.

 

[msxyz]

If it means CP2077 will be more arcadey, then making the boss fights more difficult is not the solution.

Matter of fact, I hate boss fights because usually it involves bullet sponges who don't follow the in game rules.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Sure, why not, but not in terms of HP pool but in terms of better scripted encounters and enemy behaviour.

Just to be clear, this is what I personally mean when I say I want more difficult boss fights.

I want better mechanics that require you to think and proceed carefully when approaching bosses, not just peppering them with more bullets.

 

[psyclum]

Sure, why not, but not in terms of HP pool but in terms of better scripted encounters and enemy behaviour.

problem with this is the need for significant investment in enemy AI development. the "current" script involve "beaming" more NCPD into your closet in an entirely enclosed room star trek style or have a few overheat put onto you from some random netrunner... there was only a few instance where a heavy tank (HMG wielding npc) would charge you which creates a sense of urgency that re-prioritize your target list.

personally, i'd like to see more enemy AI quickhack possibilities aside from the occational overheat in the beginning of the game and maybe one or 2 cyberware malfunctions in later game. it's almost like no enemy netrunners exist in the game. but that opens up another whole can of worms as to how to handle ultimate hacks etc...

i think they just didnt have enough time to dedicate any resources to these type of discussions and just did it the lazy way like any other game developer. not like they didn't want to do better, just they didn't have enough time considering the tons of other bugs they must squash prior to launch.

task: better enemy encounter,
priority level: low.
deadline for addressing the issue: indefinite.

 

[ash23neuro]

Smasher is known in lore as one of the strongest and feared solo in the universe but what we saw in the final was a joker.
MaxTac is a special taskforce developed for fighting cyberpsychos but V takes them down with ease so definitely yes, it should be much harder.

 

[Proto2149]

I was trying Let It Die, the game, and found very interesting that after you die you respawn and fight against yourself... I don't know what type of sorcery they made there but I thought it was really cool and found me surprisingly challenging!
This type of adaptive AI is really interesting and could be thought of to implement in CP2077

 

[Satori88]

Not just the bossfights, the whole game needs an actual hard mode. So far there is: very very easy, very easy, easy and normal mode. It can't be that we can just loot hundreds of these inhalers ( no need to craft or buy even one of these) and just huff that shit indefinitely no downside or limitation at all. Even Witcher 3 at least tried to do something with limiting swallow potions but later you will be broken regardless. Add completely broken builds no matter what route you go: max out body, you wll be broken. Max INT and go full netrunner, we all know you basically won the game. Pure stealth/cool build, done one shooting everything. Technical Ability, craft those broken armor mods and what not you are invincible.

To top it all enemy AI being unresponsive, slow and when staggered have them bug out and don't stand up anymore there is your reason why all bossfights and almost all encounters with enemies are trivial.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

i

problem with this is the need for significant investment in enemy AI development. the "current" script involve "beaming" more NCPD into your closet in an entirely enclosed room star trek style or have a few overheat put onto you from some random netrunner... there was only a few instance where a heavy tank (HMG wielding npc) would charge you which creates a sense of urgency that re-prioritize your target list.

personally, i'd like to see more enemy AI quickhack possibilities aside from the occational overheat in the beginning of the game and maybe one or 2 cyberware malfunctions in later game. it's almost like no enemy netrunners exist in the game. but that opens up another whole can of worms as to how to handle ultimate hacks etc...

i think they just didnt have enough time to dedicate any resources to these type of discussions and just did it the lazy way like any other game developer. not like they didn't want to do better, just they didn't have enough time considering the tons of other bugs they must squash prior to launch.

task: better enemy encounter,
priority level: low.
deadline for addressing the issue: indefinite.

think they didnt try hard because its an RPG and they figured a lot of players aren't that interested in it. I think it would have been a good idea to add some special mechanics/skills to more fights, at least on higher difficulties.

 

[1cmf]

Yes, very much so, BUT!!!! not just simply do more damage have more health.

Mechanics have proven to be a fun way to increase difficulty and help players feel "rewarded" for "playing smart" and learning/beating the mechanics.

Currently in the game there "are" boss fight mechanics, but even on very hard mode, you can just dps through and ignore them. Having forced "damage windows" may be a bit excessive but something similar to that would help encourage use of the mechanics.

Some examples of boss fight mechanics currently in game.

Royce from the Maelstrom gang in the Pick Up can become a boss fight and he gets into a mechanized Arasaka combat suit. If you scan him there is a square box on the back of the suit that is yellow to designate a "weak point". My first play through I didn't understand what that did and while I shot at it I got no feedback telling me this was a good thing to do or not.

After further research I learned that he has a shield that reduces damage to zero and if you shoot the box on his back you break the control box for the arm that holds the shield, creating an opening for you to do damage.

Additionally, his suit shoots in a pattern where you can double tap dodge 3 shots, then he tends to charge up and then to a high sweeping continuous beam (duck it) and then a low sweeping continuous beam (jump it). After that he goes back to shooting charged shots you can predict and dodge.

In addition to that, in the teaser videos, Jackie is supposed to run up and flip a car on it's side to provide cover, but I have yet to get that to happen in any of my play throughs.

From the Sandra Dorsset intro quest, when you fight the Scav boss, if you back up and wait for T-bug to hack the shutters, you can run up on the left side and create a distraction, thus letting Jackie bum rush the boss and slam him into a wall.

All of those above mechanics are easily ignored by simply dpsing and doing huge damage, we need these mechanics to take the forefront of boss fights, akin to God of War or Darksouls type fights.

Furthermore, enemy resistances are something that can be easily ignored. Having specific damage types would go far in helping players feel rewarded for bringing special gear to do more damage to enemy archetypes. Short Circuit shock damage does well against robots, and Fire mostly works on flesh targets, but other than that I don't feel any pressure to utilize damage types and can again simply dps with a gun or melee weapon with no thought or planning.

 

[msxyz]

(...)

All of those above mechanics are easily ignored by simply dpsing and doing huge damage, we need these mechanics to take the forefront of boss fights, akin to God of War or Darksouls type fights.

All the above mechanics shows how much of a failure CP2077 is. If I wanted to play boss fights "Megaman" style, I'd fire up and emulator and well... play Megaman.

In a well done game, a skilled Netrunner or a Techie should be able to win the fight without dodge-shoot-dodge mechanics because that's not their role. Same for somebody who plays stealth. All the game provides, however, is an OP weapon or OP hack. Lame.

Imagine a fight with Royce where a Netrunner can turn on the engine of that Kaukaz truck parked in the garage, lure Royce in front of it and then have it crush the boss. You would need an intelligence check and only a modest dose of player reflexes (just to find a way to lure the boss in front of the truck). Imagine a techie that stealthy cuts some of those high voltage cables on the wall and lure Royce atop a metal scaffolding creating a deadly trap.

What I mean to illustrate with these two basic examples of an alternate boss fight is that the moment you give the player agency to develop a character, you should also provide multiple solutions even to those 'boss fights' to avoid descending into a trite 'bullet sponge vs nimble fingers' scenario. Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't supposed to be Doom, Darksoul or just another bland action/shooter.

 

[1cmf]

All the above mechanics shows how much of a failure CP2077 is. If I wanted to play boss fights "Megaman" style, I'd fire up and emulator and well... play Megaman.

In a well done game, a skilled Netrunner or a Techie should be able to win the fight without dodge-shoot-dodge mechanics because that's not their role. Same for somebody who plays stealth. All the game provides, however, is an OP weapon or OP hack. Lame.

Imagine a fight with Royce where a Netrunner can turn on the engine of that Kaukaz truck parked in the garage, lure Royce in front of it and then have it crush the boss. You would need an intelligence check and only a modest dose of player reflexes (just to find a way to lure the boss in front of the truck). Imagine a techie that stealthy cuts some of those high voltage cables on the wall and lure Royce atop a metal scaffolding creating a deadly trap.

What I mean to illustrate with these two basic examples of an alternate boss fight is that the moment you give the player agency to develop a character, you should also provide multiple solutions even to those 'boss fights' to avoid descending into a trite 'bullet sponge vs nimble fingers' scenario. Cyberpunk 2077 wasn't supposed to be Doom, Darksoul or just another bland action/shooter.

For sure, there should be multiple ways to approach a fight, but right now none of those are rewarding (which was what I was trying to emphasize by detailing those mechanics, not to specify they are the "only" way to do the fight).

As you said, a stealth build should be able to reduce risk in fight and possibly bypass it all together, or create an advantage in with a surprise attack. A Netrunner should be able to debilitate and control the fight much like a caster build in other games, huge nukes and proper use of weaknesses, but again something that encourages more than just sit there and shoot while sucking up stimpacks, make it interesting and challenging, not just beef up numbers on stats.

 

[HarelMor]

It seems like some of you are asking for things that other games never provide, smart enemies with interesting mechanics. It works fine if the player knows what s/he does, but on the other hand, if the player makes a mistake, that player will pay for it, and s/he will hate the game for it. I've seen it in The Secret World (not the abomination that is the new version of the game). Let's say that CDPR adds reboot optics to the netrunner arsenal, and for x amount of seconds, the screen with be black, some people will love it, some will check their monitor to see if there is no glitch, and some will get mad, the same thing will happen with weapon glitch. I love to see every possible demon activate against the player, but if we consider the fun factor for man players, it will never happen. At least, the surveillance cameras don't see a narrow zone 2 meters in from of them, and the enemies are not utterly blind like in Watchdogs legions. I hoped that the higher difficulty will have smart and hard to kill enemies, with boss fights that have 3-4 stages.