Try playing the game this way:
Talk to Takemura.
Do not seek out Judy or Panam, complete other side content until Takemura calls again.
Repeat until you talk to the Proxy.
Now look at what you need to do to progress.
I see a lot of peeps putting their hopes on the modders to somehow "finish" this game.
Bethesda makes their open world games with modders in mind, releasing one of the most feature rich modding toolkits out there with their games. We haven't seen anything approaching that from CDPR yet. Saying "We support modders" doesn't make it so. When an actual toolkit is released, then we can assess what modders might be capable of.
Also, keep in mind that ten different modders will have ten different visions for what the game should be. Major overhauls are tough enough with one hand guiding the helm.
Yes, we have. The modding toolkit for The Witcher 1 is one of the best I've ever worked with, and it came free with the game. Yes, it was based on BioWare's Aurora engine, but as you'll know if you've played both The Witcher 1 and any BioWare game based on Aurora, CD Projekt did so much work on that engine that it was in effect almost a whole new engine. Tne modding toolkit for Witcher II is also prety good, but I haven't personally built anything big in it so I can't say how good. Again, it's a free download.
RedKit is still the editing tool they use in house, it's what Cyberpunk is built in. However, as far as I know the version you can download hasn't been updated since The Witcher II; and that's why I'm waiting to see whether we get a new RedKit. If we do, we can do anything the developers can do.
I didn't read all 7 pages of replies, so forgive me if this has been said already.
I don't think this game has failed at all. The main story and major side-stories are engaging, the voice acting is out of this world (Judy's voice actor wins MVP here), the graphics are beautiful, and the music is well done!
(Mind you I play on PC with an expensive rig. Obviously this game completely failed to even run properly on PS4 / XBox.)
Does the game have things that could be improved? Oh my god yes. But is the game a failure? Hell no. I'm over 350 hours played and I still want to play more. Can't say that for a lot of my games, especially single-player ones.
I don't think this game has failed at all. The main story and major side-stories are engaging, the voice acting is out of this world (Judy's voice actor wins MVP here), the graphics are beautiful, and the music is well done!
(Mind you I play on PC with an expensive rig. Obviously this game completely failed to even run properly on PS4 / XBox.)
Does the game have things that could be improved? Oh my god yes. But is the game a failure? Hell no. I'm over 350 hours played and I still want to play more. Can't say that for a lot of my games, especially single-player ones.
It sounds like you're attempting to say CP is more decentralized compared to TW3. It's certainly a valid argument. This has less to do with anything revolutionary and more to do with the central theme of the story being rather vague though.
None of this means CP lacks a central structure either. An easy way to illustrate it is to consider a central road. You're sent down this road. At certain points you can take a side road off to the left or right. No matter what those side pathways still loop straight back to this central road though. In one form or another. Come to think of it, many of these forks don't loop back on the MQ at all. I need information to fix my problem. Let's go explore this to find that information. Sorry, this pathway was of no use whatsoever. It's a dead end. Try again.
Yes, if you go left you aren't going right. The problem is, in the context of the MQ or central theme, these forks aren't really changing it. That is, they are not changing the central theme/plot of attempting to save yourself. They are changing things outside of it.
Your post implies you have a goal and can choose from a number of different pathways to reach a solution. I just don't see it. This is not really what the game is providing. What it's doing is attempting to trick the player into thinking it's providing it.
How exactly does this describe Cyberpunk though? In the game I have to meet Jackie, perform the Heist, reach a single set of consequences for doing so and meet Takemura. You have to end up with Johnny stuck in your head. I believe you have to meet the Voodoo Boys to meet Alt. You have to engage with Takemura to get to Hanako. It's only after all these events play out do you get a meaningful choice.
I'd add, there aren't really six conclusions. There are two, maybe three, depending on how you look at it. You either off yourself, end up stuck in Cyberspace or end up with 6 months left to live. Suicide and stuck in Cyberspace could conceivably be considered "death". These last two can come about via different methods. The way the events unfold may change with the choices here. The conclusion of trying to save yourself is still ultimately one of these three options.
All of those major quest revolve around finding Evelyn, to get information about the relic, Judy doesn't alter the ending does she? She doesn't open up anymore options after meeting Hanako.
Think of it like those one hit wonders in music,, they arrive like the coming of Jesus and shit goes wild then suddenly they are gone. right now this is how i see CDPR they were great with the Witcher series but then we get Cyberclunk 2077.
Karma is a bitch.
The only sure thing in life is death and tax's.
I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
Aside from that I keep seeing over and over again this game compared to that of The Witcher 3. I haven't played The Witcher 3 so I wouldn't know how good it is, is it really that good? Would it be worth a purchase on the PS5 or is it too outdated as I can purchase the complete edition of it on Amazon for $30 right now?
Yes, its very good, but play the whole series from Witcher to Witcher 2 then Witcher 3. they are also remastering Witcher3 currently too. So it will be even more prettier.
Where is the fail? commercial success and a roadmap. The only problems come from some cut content and the console versione.
best game of 2020 clearly even if is still incomplete, and it can only get better
best game of 2020 clearly even if is still incomplete, and it can only get better
The Witcher III is certainly worth buying, especially if you like Cyberpunk. It is a remarkable work of story telling, and for my money it's the single best computer game of any genre so far. Also, if you're going to buy it get it from gog.com, because that way all of your money goes to the developers.
LMAO. And me here with Witcher 3 at 229 hours and Cyberpunk 2077 currently at 265 hours and with a lot more to come.
Silly me not recognizing just how awful this game is...
Silly me not recognizing just how awful this game is...
I'd say: lucky you. As for me, I just can't ignore all the flaws this game has, starting from the poor and outdated technical level and finishing with MMO style gigs a.k.a. "side-quests". I wish I can enjoy this game enough to spend 200 hours in it really) But somehow, I can't.
Cyberpunk has it's strong sides no doubts, like touching and sentimental main story, some good developed characters, beautifully designed city.
But in everything other than that it is less then mediocre, imo
I'm currently replaying Witcher 3 and for me this game is miles ahead.
Speaking from the bottom up -- I think there's plenty of opportunity for the history of the world to be affected! Just like Johnny and Alt are technically AIs now...so is the player. So even if V's physical form is dead...is that the end? If V's physical form survives...how far does the Arasaka tech extend? Is it now even possible to reverse the immortality provided?
But for the sake of making a video game centered on a character with this type of storytelling structure, I'd say it would be virtually impossible to follow it up with the "same" character in an airtight way. So better to have V's story end, and leave the mystique of the character of V/Johnny carry forward into future games: "You're talkin' about the V from the legend? Choomba, gimme a break! You saying you believe that shit?" I'd say the game not only very successfully resolves the theme of 2077, but it avoids falling into the trap of needing to come up with 6 potentially different world-states that need to be accounted for at the beginning of a "Cyberpunk 2177" or whatever.
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As for The Witcher, it's not a criticism -- it's just a simple observation of the structure. In TW3, I will always do:
Prologue --> Act 1 --> Act 2 --> Act 3 --> Act 4 --> Act 5
That's the structure. It will always be there. I will never get to the endgame without following the narrative structure of the main questline in that order. I can't skip Acts. I can't rush right to the end and take on the Wild Hunt at level 3. I can't avoid meeting certain people before I meet others in the same order. I can't choose to join the Wild Hunt at the end. I can't just say, Ciri can take care of herself. Etc.
The only thing I can do is change how individual Acts resolve -- what they feel like. But I cannot simply avoid an Act or string them together in a different order. Side content may offer different options to explore the lore of the world and build character, but they do not alter the structure.
For purposes of narrative arc -- "telling an effective, moving story" -- this is absolute night-and-day difference from something like CP2077 or other such games. Everything -- the approach to characters, pacing, the amount of writing, how the main themes are explored, the way scenes need to be handled -- everything becomes many orders of magnitude more difficult to handle.
Which leads right into:
I think the issue is you are equating linear and trunk and I am not.
Otherwise we agree. (Also I haven't played a Witcher game, so the comparisons don't work for me - last single player game I played was Neverwinter 2 when it was released...)
For me the order of "talk to Rogue" or "talk to Judy" after "talk in Tom's Diner" isn't important to the narrative trunk of the story. This is because the order you do them in doesn't change things and both are mandatory and reveal the core of the narrative and give clues as to the endings being tragic (in the dramatic sense).
There is however a vast amount of stuff connected to that trunk, if the game didn't force you to climb it (to a degree), it would be very easy to not even find that trunk and it is very easy to miss a lot of the things connected to the trunk as well. Calling on my experience in other game communities - I suspect there is a lot of skipping through things and getting to the Point of No Return and then cycling the endings and calling it done. That skipping, especially in apparently irrelevant side quests, makes it very easy to miss a lot of information about the main quest. (Hell it is easy to miss a lot without skipping, because of the sheer number of layers to things.)
And hopefully the above response is clarifying my focus. I think it's a very successful attempt at such a complex design while adding in the RPG and open-world elements as well as they have. Even if it's rough and/or disappointing in places, the fact that it's all there and it all works -- and it's still telling a pretty awesome story! -- doesn't feel like anything near "failure" to me.
There is a great balancing act that must be done, though. Any narrative arc, no matter how nebulous and branching, will need to be linear to some degree. Like: we can't establish Jackie's character (or any other character) without a scripted sequence of events that delivers the evolution of that character. We can't create motivation without a scripted sequence of events that establishes who, what, when, where, how, and why. And so forth. So, the massive challenge is being able to come up with enough branches to fully capture the illusion of choice / consequence. All while still making it feel as if "the story" is evolving naturally.
And that's where things get 100% subjective. If I went into the game expecting a certain length, with certain activities, and a certain tone and mood (pre-conceptions), then I may be disappointed if the game is not like that. But I would argue, love it or hate it, it is a very well-handled, non-linear exploration of the theme of "immortality". I feel it's a very successful RPG in terms of choice and consequence, though I can see how certain pathways may feel very abrupt. And I think the open-world elements are, while not revolutionary, very well done. Night City is feast of detail and diverse, believable environments. I find NC to be one of the most engrossing cities in a game I've ever seen. Right up there with GTA, Assassin's Creed, and TW3.
And as a whole, I will definitely play again numerous times. I really enjoyed my stealth / non-lethal playthrough. Can't wait to try that again once all the patches and DLCs are out. Next time, I'm going as a Street Kid and a general bruiser.
You speak untrue. Witcher and CP has the same structure. With CP you can go, yes first with Hellman, alt , takemura and all variation of these 3. But the same with Wicher, you can go first to Novigrad or skellige then velen on the very end. And as the same as in witcher you need these 3 things to advance a plot. In CP you as well can't go on the very first minute to arasaka, take care of yorinobu or attack arasaka on lvl 3. If you try to take Adam smasher on first encouter end defeat him, game bugges out and you can't advance anymore.
I know that it is your job to defend CP,but let's be real. This game is much more linear that TW3, there is no "Choose your adventure" as you beatifuly described it. It's do this, or not do. Sometimes there is some kind of choice that brings nothing to the main story. Maybe you can tell me, what changed after first meeting with alt? What changed when you chose Netwatch agent over voodoboys? What effect it had? And it is main story line mission. Nothing did. You get info from alt that her solution is to flatline V and make copy of her. And V asks "Wait so you have to kill me to save me? " and it is brushed over "yea small details , we have solution let's go with it". Masterpiece 10/10 ! What changed after judy arc? What is result of V actions? Under Maiko , dolls have it the same, after killing Maiko there is revenge from tigers claws and everything stays the same. The only choices that somehow matters are with Takemura and Panam. Panam questline is fun and propably one of the few saving graces of cyberpunk. But it would be so much better to just admit that it is linear game and from that point move on. Because the main story is immersive, is fun, combat need polish, many otherthings too but do not give this PR magic that happened before realease and effects we have now.
I'm not going to talk about horrible endings and problems with them as there is tread the biggest one i think, and a few long comments from me to.
But best wishes neverless !
The Witcher 3: If player helps Hjalmar before visiting the feast on Skellige all the dialogues in the quest changes to match the logic of the player's decision.
Cyberpunk 2077: Get the car from the parking lot and V normally communicates with Johnny, even though he just tried to kill him.
The Witcher 3: Don't go to meet Gunther O Dim and later in the story there is a new scene with new dialogues about Geralt breaking his promise.
Cyberpunk 2077: Don't go to meet Takemura at the diner and he will sit there forever.
Cyberpunk 2077: Get the car from the parking lot and V normally communicates with Johnny, even though he just tried to kill him.
The Witcher 3: Don't go to meet Gunther O Dim and later in the story there is a new scene with new dialogues about Geralt breaking his promise.
Cyberpunk 2077: Don't go to meet Takemura at the diner and he will sit there forever.
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I have 300+ hours Do i think that this game failed? no really however i do think that they miss delivered by a long shoot "for me" i wanna be very clear i love this game to death i really love it however i have to reconize where the game at times looks shallow "to me" spoilers alert >
i'm terrible at explaining things but at times i felt like a pizza delivery person who delivers a pizza during a secret illuminati meeting you join them hear few words but then you go back on your way to deliver pizzas and you continue wondering what was that all about i wanna know more thats how i felt basically While im not too worried about lore because i know that we will see those in future Expansions "I hope" what im worried about is if they will try to implement a better AI or some minor cool game feature, quality of life to keep me on a loop for a little longer because i gotta say its kinda my fault because my expectation were waaaay too high i wanted this game to be "my next skyrim,Fallout 4" and it still can be a game that i would play for the next 10 years "thank you mods also" i know it sounds crazy but thats me i played this game and still playing about 4 times but i gotta say Life paths weren't really what i expected still enjoyable and very cool experience but yeah.. no matter what before you get to your ending of choice you are pretty much doing the same its like going in a hallway with 4 doors so you choose a different door everytime but the hallway is still the same and the building is still the same. I understand that making this kind of games its really hard and i really do appriciete the devs for making this beautiful game but lets be honest i think that the hype came from both sides and this is the result of it.
Cyberpunk lore is packed and i mean packed with lore its full of stuff that literally keeps you wanting to know more and more i have books i have comics about it and im a big fan but besides V story there are side stories that really leave you with more questions than answers if those will be revealed in future Dlc's then even better for me Hehe but def there is more to it for example Sasquatch you either fight her, spare her or completely dodge her you will have no chance to impact the animals lineage sort of say, Susie a cool leader that we barely interact with her same with Rita, Brick , Vodoo boys, Will Gunner, Jenkins, abernathy, Harry, the greatest solo merc of all time Morgan blackhand and the super ninja Oda there are tons of characters in the game same thing Mr. blue eyes which to me drove my interest for the majority of the game because he is such a foreshadow cool character that made me forget i was dying you see him for the first time after Paralez quest but yet you still left with nothing really , Sandra dorsett and the intel about a secret operation she found about Rogue AI i love whats going on with that and i thought it was gonna lead somewhere but no , the fight between Militech and Arasaka is still a mistery to me "in the game" how bunch of valentinos are hired behind Padre's back to go attack arasaka facility wearing militech gear this is a glimps of the surface you scratch sadly i started to think at the beginning that i was gonna team up with some factions "besides Aldecados" to go mess with arasaka or worse militech or even join militech through meredith for my biochip at some point because of how much i was digging into the side quests and lore i thought that all those side quests from those fixers were leading me somewhere but i was wrong
Kind of disagree.
From White Orchard you get dumped (via Vizima) into Velen. From Velen, if you've played the game before and know your way around, you can go straight across Velen and over the Pontar to Novigrad, but playing your first time through it will take a while to find a way across the river. You cannot go directly from Velen to Skellige at all - there isn't actually a sea route. So you have to go via Novigrad to get to Skellige. As far as I know you can't get to Kaer Morhen at all from any of the other maps, you can only get jumped there after finding Ciri, so you have to do Skellige before you can do Kaer Morhen.
It isn't as linear as @SigilFey is suggesting, but it also is more linear than you are.
Writing branching plots is extremely hard. When we wrote 'Birth, and Virgins', I think I wrote four endings for the main NPC:
- She could have an abortion and go to Vizima to become a priestess, as she wanted;
- She could have the baby and marry the elven blacksmith, as he wanted;
- She could have the baby and got to Vizima but not to become a priestess, because she obviously wasn't a virgin;
- ...and I'm pretty sure there was another abortion ending which I can't remember now;
- And of course she could commit suicide as she'd been planning all along, but that's a failure ending.
It failed and still is failing cause of the gamers..most were pissed when it was constantly delayed and the gamers were non stop bashing the company until they finally released it nd released it 2 years too early and didn't have the time to put everything they promised in there vids into the game and it came out as a trash heap..sure it's fun and not a bad story..but you can't tell me the story isn't chopped up and missing lots of stuff..Evelyn asks you to turn on Dex and no matter what you say it goes no where..the beginning life paths dont really do anything for you except a few lines of dialog..you meet Padre in the montage and he doesn't know you when you meet him in the game..they gave us so much lore on the gangs and you barely do mission with or for them..relationships go no where..you get to edit your teeth.. why?this game is one big fail and even if you enjoy it and shut yourself off of the truth it's only the beta and not everyone plays on pc so we dont care for the modders to fix it..we want the company to stop talking..stop apologizing and just make it game of the year and turn this fail into a win