TBH Subdermal Armor should be spread out on Quality (when you can purchase them) and the values massively raised, where as cloth is lowered. Maybe the heaviest of armor should be comparable or slightly above the subdermal armor, but Subdermal should be a large if the largest portion of your armor value.
Spread the Tiers out
White level SC 5 500
Green SC 15 1000
Blue SC 25 2000
Orange SC 40 4000
I also think that the defense stats should only give them suitable equipment like a bulletproof vest and cyberware. With its pros and cons in terms of mobility. Same for footwear. The rest should be aesthetic.
Isn't the obvious approach to immersion that V changes clothes like everyone else? So you wear different outfits for visiting the badlands, going to the nightclub and chilling out at Judy's. When it is time to do a high-risk gig in a well-guarded corporate building, you throw on the tactical gear.
So for me, high armour rating for tactical gear which may not look stylish while the hot and sexy crop top provides very little protection would make more sense.
Isn't the obvious approach to immersion that V changes clothes like everyone else? So you wear different outfits for visiting the badlands, going to the nightclub and chilling out at Judy's. When it is time to do a high-risk gig in a well-guarded corporate building, you throw on the tactical gear.
If the menus where better, people would do it. I can't make presets. I have to stash everything in car trunk and not use the wardrobe in the apartment. That should have a SHOWROOM. There's tons of reasons why people don't want to do those things. And than you have no one care any way. So why bother. I made CJ fat or full on muscles, to hear all the comments.
After finishing CP2077 I decided to play Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Those two games share similarities in many mechanics aspects but what I really liked realistic in DE is approach to weapons. 10 mm pistol is always 10 mm pistol, not 100 aspects of 10 mm pistols with different dmg. You can slightly tweak your pistol with crafting. I like idea of iconic weapons being special in CP but streets shouldn't be flooded with so many different quality items.In pan & paper CP you needed to invest some edies in gear to survive. Here buying anything is pointless (like in most of loot based games).
Had they done it the other way, people would gripe how their character is locked to a certain look.
But I'm with you. Armor should reflect the appearance and I'll add to that. Movement should be impacted.
A light coat would allow stealth while heavy armor would make unnecessary noise but provide massive boost in
survivability.
Not sure why the stats were omitted either. In the demo we could see more detailed stats governing a weapons
behavior. I know those stats still apply cause the Lexington has shite accuracy lol.
Looking for the W3, Gerald change the armor/clothing/outfit for occasions, Gerald do not have crafting skills.
Crafting skills in CP2077 is a must have for any build, i don´t see why you need to put points in there, because you will need that skill no matter what you do.
Looking this, i would say, the best way would be make basic clothing with way less armor, mods yes, but without armadillo, and a military style clothing that would up your armor, with some negative perks or course.
To craft weapons and stuff, would be nice to have a place to do it, dismantle on the fly ok, but crafting is a little off, i myself craft weapons before entering the mission or during the mission, after the mission i dismantle it... at least this is not immersive.
Better cyberware armor should be a must, with mod slots, so you could take armor, stealth etc...
But, like others said, CDPR will not make changes to this, perhaps if they release good modding tools we can have this as a mod.
Looking for the W3, Gerald change the armor/clothing/outfit for occasions, Gerald do not have crafting skills.
Crafting skills in CP2077 is a must have for any build, i don´t see why you need to put points in there, because you will need that skill no matter what you do.
Looking this, i would say, the best way would be make basic clothing with way less armor, mods yes, but without armadillo, and a military style clothing that would up your armor, with some negative perks or course.
To craft weapons and stuff, would be nice to have a place to do it, dismantle on the fly ok, but crafting is a little off, i myself craft weapons before entering the mission or during the mission, after the mission i dismantle it... at least this is not immersive.
Better cyberware armor should be a must, with mod slots, so you could take armor, stealth etc...
But, like others said, CDPR will not make changes to this, perhaps if they release good modding tools we can have this as a mod.
You nailed it, the crafting perk should be innate. There's no real choice there. Unless you don't want Legendary versions of the iconic weapons you're specing into tech.
I also think that the defense stats should only give them suitable equipment like a bulletproof vest and cyberware. With its pros and cons in terms of mobility. Same for footwear. The rest should be aesthetic.
This idea that Armor inhibits your Mobility to such a degree is more of a misconception of armor.
If it does anything it would drain your stamina slightly faster. If it inhibits your movement like alot of people believe it becomes almost completely useless.
Weight is an issue, but it isn't remotely debilitating as this logic makes out. Not to mention if one is wearing armor daily one kinda naturally adjusts to wearing it.
Anyhow most of the Mobility perks are in Body, and Reflex.
Believable still isn't realism. And even then, it doesn't have to involve believability either. People get immersed in games of Super Mario and Pokémon. What is even remotely believable there?
A game doesn't even need characters to immerse a player. Pure puzzle games, like Bejewelled somehow manage to immerse players too.
Immersion is a passive activity of the player. It is something a player can conciously or subconciously open up for. It is NOT something a developer can pull out of a high hat and "add" to a game. The player has to be open to immersing him or herself. If you can't be immersed in a game because it isn't realistic, then that's yourownfault, for not opening up for what the game offers.
I get the point, a bandana(I always get rid of those tbh) shouldnt realistically have the same armour value as a helmet. I partially agree. But then you'd get into a situation where you will always go for the bulletproof vests and helmets and I find that to be a bit boring. The result is also that you're wearing armour you dont really want to wear or looks ugly. I(or at least V) dont want to run around in Arasaka armour for obvious reasons even if thats the best available. At least this system allows me to wear gear that isnt corporate militarized and just go with what a Street kid or a Nomad would wear.
Besides, the armour values(unless we are talking about end game 1k combo's) arent as important as they seem to be anyways. Having 10-20 more armour is meaningless in the game.
I agree to the point where I also would like to dress up as I please and still be able to have ample defensive properties. However the crafting system could help in this.
If armor that is actual armor is supposed to be better than a pair of shirts ok, I would take that. The crafting system can then come into play so you can make your pair of shorts be more armored by investing in upgrading it.
Mitary equipment would by default be better, but upgrading it woul/could be more costly to keep it superior. And your pair of shorts or bra would be next to useless armorwise by default, but upgrading it would be less expensive per increment. In turn however you'd need much more instances if said upgrade to get them anywhere near the military level.
Believable still isn't realism. And even then, it doesn't have to involve believability either. People get immersed in games of Super Mario and Pokémon. What is even remotely believable there?
Hello guys and gals
Game was often told to be very immersive. In some fields it is but in others it's very far from being.
Don't you find it strange that a bandana or a baseball cap can have same amount of armor as an Arasaka armored helmet? I played PnP Cyberpunk 2020 and if you wanted to be bullet proof (there is no such a thing) you had to invest in armored clothes etc. If you wanted to look cool you could but no way you coud take a bullet and survive. In many games you have armor classes like light (stealth, evasion), medium or heavy (tank like) and each has it cons and pros. I don't like this kind of solution.
When it comes to weapon you don't have to buy anything (even ammo) in shops (they shoud go bankrupt) because everything they sell there is worthless. Instead you find enormous amount of gear from defeated enemies and what is more funny each has different statistics as if manufacturers had no any standard for their products. There are no different kinds of ammo like armor piercing, explosive or incendiary etc. So many simplifications...
reading the cyberpunk red source book, you could have armored clothes of many varieties. Even if something appears to be light armor, it could still stop bullets and this was 30 years ago in cyberworld. There may be some heavy armor, but none of the gear really looks like heavy armor anyway
basically the modifications hold the real armor.
As far as drops, enemies literally drop the weapons they are using, so thats not really implausible at all. Silver Lining to gun toting hooligans on every corner, easy Guns. Inciendary ammo, isn't really very useful.
the stats on the Guns are based on the player, thats just a leveling mechanic.
OK, so my V doesn't wear odd-ball costumes. She wears mostly black and purple, because that's her taste. And although headgear has fairly useful armour stats she mostly doesn't wear it because... meh. It's better not to get hit in the first place.
But seriously, CD Projekt has put at least 1,500 person years into this game. Assigning reasonable stats to all the wearable clothes models – there aren't that many – would have taken one fairly junior not very technical person a week at most. I think having a bandana with an armour value of 30 is sloppy.
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From your butt, maybe. They wouldn't do so much for your legs.
They didnt do it the way you are talking about for game design reasons. You may as well ask why there are levels, attributes, skills. Why do enemies get stronger later in the game, why the game isn't over and you gotta start again when you die. Why you don't need to eat or sleep. Why takamura will wait years in a diner.
as far as your immersion based on visuals, you realize they have cyberware that looks like real flesh? Hyper durable nanoweave clothes? theoretically all those scantily clad women could be super durable. In this scifi world, you cant just go by your eyes
That being engaged is different from being immersed indeed is different.
But you are not the judge of what someone is either engaged or immersed by.
Plenty of people do get immersed in pokemon, the world and its elements.
That you may not be immersed, which appear to be the case with all of it (pokemom, mario, cp77) doesnt mean someone else isnt, whatever the reason
But as fas as I know there is no enemy level scaling so what's the point? Being even more godlike? You become a god in a couple of days/weeks and you are able to defeat Adam Smasher, one of the most fearsome solos of cyberworld.
reading the cyberpunk red source book, you could have armored clothes of many varieties. Even if something appears to be light armor, it could still stop bullets and this was 30 years ago in cyberworld. There may be some heavy armor, but none of the gear really looks like heavy armor anyway
basically the modifications hold the real armor.
As far as drops, enemies literally drop the weapons they are using, so thats not really implausible at all. Silver Lining to gun toting hooligans on every corner, easy Guns. Inciendary ammo, isn't really very useful.
the stats on the Guns are based on the player, thats just a leveling mechanic.
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They didnt do it the way you are talking about for game design reasons. You may as well ask why there are levels, attributes, skills. Why do enemies get stronger later in the game, why the game isn't over and you gotta start again when you die. Why you don't need to eat or sleep. Why takamura will wait years in a diner.
as far as your immersion based on visuals, you realize they have cyberware that looks like real flesh? Hyper durable nanoweave clothes? theoretically all those scantily clad women could be super durable. In this scifi world, you cant just go by your eyes
If it's that way in Cyberpunk Red sourcebook, it explains a lot but I still find this mechanic weak. I prefere 2020 ideas but it doesn't matter. Mike Pondsmith is the boss. I heard from my friends (RPG veterans), I used to play 2020 with, that another incarnatons of CP weren't too good and had wierd ideas (same with WoD). CP 2077 isn't based on 2020 so I shouldn't complain.
Rest is typical looter/shooter mechanic. I haven't played Borderlands but spent many hours with Diablo 3. Level up, get better skills, find better items and smash, kill, burn. In CP2077 we have at least great story.
But as fas as I know there is no enemy level scaling so what's the point? Being even more godlike? You become a god in a couple of days/weeks and you are able to defeat Adam Smasher, one of the most fearsome solos of cyberworld.
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If it's that way in Cyberpunk Red sourcebook, it explains a lot but I still find this mechanic weak. I prefere 2020 ideas but it doesn't matter. Mike Pondsmith is the boss. I heard from my friends (RPG veterans), I used to play 2020 with, that another incarnatons of CP weren't too good and had wierd ideas (same with WoD). CP 2077 isn't based on 2020 so I shouldn't complain.
Rest is typical looter/shooter mechanic. I haven't played Borderlands but spent many hours with Diablo 3. Level up, get better skills, find better items and smash, kill, burn. In CP2077 we have at least great story.
yeah, I tested it after another post, my guess is enemies scale to your level when they are spawned, then stay at that level, so if you make yourself 50 at the start, they ll all be scaled high.
I can't say the exact mechanic, but its clear they are scaled up if you do that. That said, it makes the beginning super hard, because you don't have any gear. The plus side is its way easier to get gear/money since everything that drops is high level. Id recommend finding one of the armadillo crafting recipes asap, and using stealth early. Its kind of entertaining for me, but might seem too unbalanced for others. I had to craft medpacs and spam them on the car chase, in very beginning because the damage is killer.
As far as the mechanic in the source book, its not that they don't have heavier armor, its the fact that its heavy is functional mostly. Heavy armor slows you down movement/dex/res, and has different costs Usually it will have a brand/description, but I'm guessing thats secondary.
"Matcch yourr armor to your situation. If, you're pulling a bodyguard job at a charity ball for an Execc, you'll just embarrass yourself and your employer if you show up in full riot gear. Sure, I've got a set of flak that makes me look like I'm going to war but I've also picked up aa Duraweave fiber business suit from Takanaka. Prewar tech. Maakes me look like II belong in a Corporate HQ but it can stop pistol fire dead. — Cooper"
the implication is the technology is there to make things that look weak, fairly durable, it still has the same stats if its heavy though. not too surprising even in our world we got bulletproof formal suits nowadays
I am not sure if you can get everything at the Max weight, but then again, in that game techs can invent items so probably, might have to be custom.
But why even think about armor and appearances when a persons body could have subdermal armor anyhow?
as for cp2077 being looter shooter, you can craft and ignore drops, or use em just for money and parts, can also buy decent weapons in shops. I never really even look too hard at the gears, even when I have no crafting skill. You can just upgrade it, and replace it if you get something later.
