At least this game got us talking. Maybe some of us hate each others guts, maybe not. Maybe some bridges were created, maybe some are too far. But this game sure isn't lame, despite what some people may say. Lame products don't produce 15 pages of conversation.
But this is exactly my problem with these quests. They DON'T exist outside of V's involvement with them. All the characters and storylines featured in the game's various quests simply cease to exist after V stops interacting with them.
They're all just props for V to play with for a while, which are promptly discarded once the quest is finished.
You've missed my point, it gives the idea of that.
Of course they don't exist outside of V's involvement, it's a videogame
.It does leave the impression though, by having different expository elements that lead up to the quests (news articles and bulletins, messages etc.) and after the quest is finished - even the main one.
We must suspend our disbelief for anything fictional to ever work, we literally signed up for it by engaging.
I'd love to have a simulated reality that engages players but unfortunately we're not there yet.
"...I also like to annoy players with ambiguity."
-Sr. Designer on Cyberpunk 2077 Patrick Mills.
Not surprisingly, he's the one who came up with the Peralezes Mini-Arc. 'Nuff said
phonemantra.com
-Sr. Designer on Cyberpunk 2077 Patrick Mills.
Not surprisingly, he's the one who came up with the Peralezes Mini-Arc. 'Nuff said
Cyberpunk 2077 Senior Mission Designer: "I love annoying players with ambiguity."
Cyberpunk 2077 Senior Quest Designer Patrick Mills has posted a series of posts on his personal microblog. In them, he talked about his approach to creating missions in the mentioned game. According to the developer, he likes to create stories with open and ambiguous endings, but he also knows...
phonemantra.com
You've missed my point, it gives the idea of that.
Of course they don't exist outside of V's involvement, it's a videogame
It does leave the impression though, by having different expository elements that lead up to the quests (news articles and bulletins, messages etc.) and after the quest is finished - even the main one.
We must suspend our disbelief for anything fictional to ever work, we literally signed up for it by engaging.
I'd love to have a simulated reality that engages players but unfortunately we're not there yet.
These stories should exist outside of V's involvement though, as I've already pointed out in this thread. It makes no real sense that V's choice at the end of Dream On is never followed up on. It's an important choice.
Not asking for every loose end to be tied up, just for some acknowledgement that the narratives presented in the side quests actually happened, because without that acknowledgement, the world is flat and artificial. You mention expository elements leading up to the quests - why are there barely any afterward? Peralez's story is bigger than V, so it shouldn't end with V.
Leaving the player to just headcanon everything isn't a great way to show that Night City is bigger than the player, it just shows that the world is dead and nothing happens when V isn't interacting with it.
That's just my take on it though. I appreciate that you see it a different way, you obviously got more out of the side quests than I did.
They do show snippets of what happens afterwards, Peralez winning the election by a landslide if you don't tell him the truth or a close call if you do, Sinnerman BD being a massive success or not, LizzyWizzy's new BD idea, quest characters messaging you afterwards saying how things are going for them based on what you've done (Pepe, Cesar and his wife, Mamma Welles, Misty etc.).
Don't get me wrong they could have done more, and I believe the Prealez case will be expanded upon, it's just too good to let it hang so here's me hoping
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Is this true? If so, I retract everything I've said about Dream On in this thread. The only follow-up I got from this quest was the jittery call you get from Peralez in the credits if you tell him the truth.
Both outcomes resulting in him winning the election is a little bit lame, it'd make more narrative sense if he lost when you tell him the truth. Really neat if that is actually expounded upon though!
Eh, this one is lame as hell. For a BD that was apparently so controversial, it'd be nice if there was some acknowledgement of it beyond a single phone call from Rachel. Big narrative disconnect between how important the quest claims it is, and how important it actually ends up being. And there's no outcome that accounts for Joshua Stephenson being assassinated AFAIK.
This is one of the worst examples of what I'm talking about. She tells you that she's releasing a new BD, but there's no follow-up whatsoever. A big celebrity releasing a BD that is hinted to contain disturbing material? Why is nobody talking about this, why's it not making the news? I get that the writer wanted to leave it ambiguous, but Lizzy Wizzy is a public figure and should be treated as such.
I totally agree on this point, which is why I never included it in the original post. I maintain that V's interactions with developed characters like Misty, Judy, Panam, Mama Welles, etc. are where the game shines the most, and clearly where most of the writing effort went.
Thanks for the response!
actually some of them do have further developments. Anna Hammil starts killing crooked cops if you let her go and tell her the cops are after her. Somewhere there's a ncpd body and a record of a convo. people write RIP graffiti for Gustavo Orta if he gets killed, and there are npcs discussing how he got done dirty. They have new ads for the passion. Meredith, or Gilcrest end up dead(can find the body), depending what we did in the heist. And these are just the ones I noticed. Its possible there are many more.
So some of these events do have the world continuing on outside of V
oh yeah, some npcs who died that you knew get tombstones.
It's explained in the epilogue section of this page.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Jefferson_Peralez
I think this is both to do with them probably not having any time to develop this any further and can also be explained by the fact that the quest only becomes available after you've completed all the main story line quests that lead up to Nocturne OP55N1, so V's literally not around to see what happens with the BD.
No problem, I like a good conversation
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The problem is the final quest comes up so fast with the ticking timebomb plot device that most people would just about rush to it.It's explained in the epilogue section of this page.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Jefferson_Peralez
I think this is both to do with them probably not having any time to develop this any further and can also be explained by the fact that the quest only becomes available after you've completed all the main story line quests that lead up to Nocturne OP55N1, so V's literally not around to see what happens with the BD.
No problem, I like a good conversation
I think the solution is that the ending quest should dump the player in night city after, but with a 6 month deadline rather than a 2 week deadline. Thing is, all the side quest content is too much for a 2 week deadline but plausible for a 6 month one.
So except for uploading yourself to mikoshi or suicide the player would be dropped right into night city and the after bit, like going to the crystal palace, leaving NC, could be cut and added in for a dlc. Then thats where the player would do sidequests and the main job would say to be continued...
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Back to the BO3 story similarity... V said as Misty was wheeling him back to his apartment if he had actually died and this is all a dream...
Think this is a hint?
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I think the two weeks is a misconception, because as V you can challenge that with Vic and at that point Misty jumps in saying that V is expecting too much out of an old timer like Vic.
Implying that the deadline is at most ambiguous.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/V_(Character)#2077
''However, due to the Relic's presence in their body, V was revived by the device some time later. Located by Saburo's ex-bodyguard Goro Takemura, they were brought back to Night City and to Viktor Vector's clinic. Whilst recovering there, V learned that the Relic was overriding their consciousness with an engram of Johnny Silverhand and that they have only a short time left to live. Meeting with Goro, V was asked to help testify to Saburo's heir, Hanako, and expose Yorinobu's crime. At the same time, they decided to investigate various leads into removing the Relic, including Evelyn and its creator Anders Hellman.''
Either that or just open Watson after a while doing gigs and getting more Street Cred and just allow us to do the side content before starting the main quest, kill two birds with one stone.
Seems quite simple and it would have a nice drawback for the players to either have Johnny parroting stuff over V's shoulder or not, depending if you liked the character.
Not to that extent, but there are fragments of something more going on, like the whole Tarot side quest, the Zen Master knowing what V is going through and then disappearing and how did V get hacked by Night Corp (?) so easily when dealing with Peralez.
Maybe Night Corp is manipulating V's memories and it's all a fabrication, or maybe it's The Relic doing something to V that we don't fully understand (seriously wtf is up with the Holographic Tarot things).
Maybe it's all a BD.
I think the two weeks is a misconception, because as V you can challenge that with Vic and at that point Misty jumps in saying that V is expecting too much out of an old timer like Vic.
Implying that the deadline is at most ambiguous.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/V_(Character)#2077
''However, due to the Relic's presence in their body, V was revived by the device some time later. Located by Saburo's ex-bodyguard Goro Takemura, they were brought back to Night City and to Viktor Vector's clinic. Whilst recovering there, V learned that the Relic was overriding their consciousness with an engram of Johnny Silverhand and that they have only a short time left to live. Meeting with Goro, V was asked to help testify to Saburo's heir, Hanako, and expose Yorinobu's crime. At the same time, they decided to investigate various leads into removing the Relic, including Evelyn and its creator Anders Hellman.''
Either that or just open Watson after a while doing gigs and getting more Street Cred and just allow us to do the side content before starting the main quest, kill two birds with one stone.
Seems quite simple and it would have a nice drawback for the players to either have Johnny parroting stuff over V's shoulder or not, depending if you liked the character.
Not to that extent, but there are fragments of something more going on, like the whole Tarot side quest, the Zen Master knowing what V is going through and then disappearing and how did V get hacked by Night Corp (?) so easily when dealing with Peralez.
Maybe Night Corp is manipulating V's memories and it's all a fabrication, or maybe it's The Relic doing something to V that we don't fully understand (seriously wtf is up with the Holographic Tarot things).
Maybe it's all a BD.
Speaking of BD's, I made a post earlier about the Militech training shard and how it feels like a BD. In fact it makes the exact same sound when you slot that shard to use the training tutorial.
So why is it that you can't reuse that shard and redo the training tutorial? Maybe some players are just dumber and needs to play the tutorial more than once to get the hang of it?
And there's all these BD's that are "incompatible with your software"?? WTF??
Did you really expected to watch 3 Mouths 1 desire? Or to make this simpler, R-rated content in game rated M? Those BD's very clearly only exists for in-game flavor purpose.
And I don't see this has anything to do with quest resolutions.
Now that's a feature I feel they glossed over without the necessary explanations.
They don't have to allow us to see 3 mouth one desire but I think we should be able to buy non-pornographic BD's for various reason. Kinda like those TV we see in GTA. Maybe mini game BD's or something.
This is pretty much my feeling entirely. I love that we are, essentially, a side character in other peoples' stories, and those stories move on without us.
But V_for_Valerie's point is valid, too, although there generally are consequences. One of the big missed opportunities isn't the lack of consequences, it's the the consequences are SO EASY to miss!
Like, take your Anna Hammil example. It's a great development, but I'll bet most people missed it because the cop she kills is in a trash heap near where you meet her and there's very little reason to ever go back there. I mean, did you know that if you go back to the pharmacy for the gig where you kill the loan shark, the place is open and you can talk to the owner about it?
It's a shame because there's a lot of this stuff, but it's incredibly easy to miss because there's virtually no reason to revisit an area once you clear the jobs. There aren't a lot of places with a "round 2."
That we are side characters creates new possibilities and I really like it too.
That some consequences are easy to miss, I think it's about different playstyles. For perspective: according to my Xbox app, only 4.05% of players completed all gigs and NCPD missions in Watson. So for many players who do multiple playthroughs, there's a lot to discover (re-playability). For us who has went much deeper in game to begin with, we may have different expectations. It's another scenario where different playstyles and expectations are at opposite positions and solving a problem how game can work for audience at both ends doesn't look easy at all.
There are definitely some issues regardless:
- Delamain appearing in end game, even if V destroyed it.
- Sinnerman ads appearing even if V takes out the whole freak show (production can't happen to begin with) That's what I plan for my next playthrough after 1.2 drops
- Izzy Wizzy BD. I can't comment that much since I don't have any point of reference for time window of that production, I walked out from that job. I do recall that I spent quite some time doing other things after that so there's a possibility I think that this should perhaps be something
- Personally after or during GIG: Family Matters why there's no option to discuss with Regina about it via phone? Could be even optional mission objective. V's motivation, default: Mercenary, never gave up an opportunity to get paid twice
Edit: Default V's motivation to contact Regina / to have that as optional mission objective.
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A V that can assault a Arasaka building either alone or with a partner (inside) and the massive numbers of armed, armoured, and highly skilled guards - suddenly is too weak to take on barely armoured gangers - who you can fight over and over and over doing police quests.
A person that can assault a seriously powerful corpo building for Arasaka can take on a piddly little gang. And this is AFTER soloing another Arasaka facility to plant a device on a float.
We don't have agency because of writing - not power levels as displayed in the game. River does the right thing and feels better for it. Judy's railroaded results are the writers - not the players choice (sneak into Cloud and hack their system to shred to make taking it easier, etc). Tiger's having a power vacuum after three bigwigs dead and going through a mini civil war to see who is in charge. Nothing. Choices don't matter essentially.