Yeah, too bad they also used to say "it's ready when it's ready" or "we leave greed to others". Actions speak louder than words.
I’m playing cyberpunk on a crusty ass original Xbox one, and it mostly runs fine. But if they want to add features exclusive to current gen or PC I’m not gonna be salty about it, I don’t see the point in them kneecapping the game just to keep it running on old gen consoles.
I remember R* added a load of exclusive features to GTA V when they re-released it to Xbox one/PS4, did people get annoyed by that? I can’t remember.
I remember R* added a load of exclusive features to GTA V when they re-released it to Xbox one/PS4, did people get annoyed by that? I can’t remember.
If we want to see even more content and improvements, them leaving old gen somewhere after current gen upgrade would be a good sign. But there are expansions that very likely are going to be released on old gen as well, which doesn't make me very optimistic about exclusive additional content for current gen and PC. Who knows maybe they will manage something. Just have to wait now.
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No one was really annoyed. PS3 and 360 limited technical capacity wouldn't allow as much updates as PS4 or XOne, plus it wasn't profitable anymore, too many modders.
With the greatest of respect, your career as a 3d artist is not relevant. One of the ways you would optimize a game for lower spec. hardware would be the reduction of advanced lighting and particle effects. I'll say it again, it is not the hardware, the game has not been optimized for it. Graphical tricks aside, which I was not expecting on my old console anyway, what is the supposed "complexity" of this game that puts it out of reach of the consoles?
No they woont, yoou can buy PC vr games that are now on quest with less features... Not something u can create a law suit on. [...]
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Why isn't it relevant, he knows more about 3d than you do, so his opinion holds some value?
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Because he says he does? Do you know my profession? Claiming to have knowledge or authority to aid your argument is the one of the oldest tricks in the internet forum book. It may well be true, but still does not mean that what they say is accurate or valid. What is so complex about the game that puts it beyond the reach of the consoles? The game was not optimized for them.
If they'd drop content for old consoles that was first said the game would include, then yes, you actually could go for lawsuits. In fact, that is what has happened already with the "on-release" versus "promised" versions.
So dont be so quick to shove that under the carpet.
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They already accounted for that density in livery in the world.
I happen to have both a PS4 as well as PC version of the game and I've noticed PC version is much denser in NPC seed aswell as cars/traffic.
You are entirely avoiding economical impossibility of production like this being available only for next gen console base (which at the moment is about 3 million) I described in my reply. Or high end PC players which has always been a fraction of userbase. How many GTX 3070 cards are even out there as there has been production bottleneck?
You talk about population density, textures and like that. Next gen console features never mention any of that. Like I wrote, higher resolutions, higher FPS and raytracing new hardware enables, these are next generation features. What MS and Sony and tech press consider next gen features. These features will be available later on this year on next gen consoles according to CDPR roadmap.
You write about IO but nobody is expecting 4k textures on PS4 or Xbox One, that doesn't limit next generation hardware either on console or PC base not having them. I played Gears 5 and other games at 4k just fine despite Xbox One users not having that option. And nobody is expecting them on PC space playing on AMD Radeon RX 470 or nVidia GTX 1060 either. Bottleneck is the same. You talk about hardware, but you don't understand how it actually works with software. Products either scales or you are selling to 1% of market.
You talk about IO but all game stopping bugs has been related to scripted events not working properly, like Takemura call. What the heck has that to do with textures and models? You appear to ignore all feedback from first gen console users that tell that stability and performance has been satisfying after patch 1.06 (stability) and 1.1 for performance.
So I can't but to start question if your approach to this is genuine to begin with.
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There is already a transit system going through the city. It simply can't be used and is empty. It only needs to be full when you're riding it. Heck, it doesn't even have to be full. There are plenty of tricks that can be used to help performance. Plenty of games have done so before, plenty will in the future.
It's called optimization.
Something this game severely lacks. On every platform.
These threads usually die off. I think that's why the mods aren't merging them together at this point. Eventually this one will fizzle out too.
It's an age old argument.
PC master race VS. consoles and how consoles are apparently ruining gaming since their inception. Even though the reality is that we wouldn't get half the games we do (both in quantity and quality) we do if it wasn't for the millions of console gamers.
When the multiplayer component launches, the argument will start again because the new-gen consoles' hardware is already behind what we PC gamers can get. It'll be even farther behind at that point and they'll apparently be holding us back again.
I'm ranting at this point... the point being don't expect these threads to stop being created every now and again.
Not that i have anything against consoles, but i wouldn't have a problem taking quality over quantity.
It is also undeniable that since the console inceptions, pc games started to get afftected in terms of buggier releases, bad optimizations and unfinished in general. Sure, there were always some games that suffered from that. But nowadays they're basically become expected, while just 15 years ago it would be just occasions that broke the rules. But i guess that can also be attributed to technological development, which nowadays it's ridicolous. New tech get pretty much outdated year from year. Back then it was probably 3/5 years.
You get it in the form of kickstarters etc, look at Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, Baldurs Gate 3 etc etc, quality games only coming to console in DOS case when PC was fully complete an in BG 3 case maybe not at all, PC has the strategy game market, MMO market etc, one of the biggest markets for games is console its that simple and you cannot expect a company pouring potentially hundreds of millions into a game to exclude one of the biggest markets, how do you think Sony can fund and release exclusive titles to PlayStation? Because it has such a small user base? No because its large enough they can make there money back while ignoring all other platforms
Consoles have absolutely ZERO to do with buggy, broke or unfinished games, all that is squarely on the developers/company that made/released the game an to blame the console for these releases is laughable and ludricrous
It doesn't matter how many raytracing-enabled cards there are out there in the userbase, because Cyberpumk plays very well (and looks extremely good) on PCs without them. Yes, sure, I'd love to have a GTX 3070 card, but I don't, and it isn't a problem.
You talk about population density, textures and like that. Next gen console features never mention any of that. Like I wrote, higher resolutions, higher FPS and raytracing new hardware enables, these are next generation features. What MS and Sony and tech press consider next gen features. These features will be available later on this year on next gen consoles according to CDPR roadmap.
You write about IO but nobody is expecting 4k textures on PS4 or Xbox One, that doesn't limit next generation hardware either on console or PC base not having them. I played Gears 5 and other games at 4k just fine despite Xbox One users not having that option. And nobody is expecting them on PC space playing on AMD Radeon RX 470 or nVidia GTX 1060 either. Bottleneck is the same. You talk about hardware, but you don't understand how it actually works with software. Products either scales or you are selling to 1% of market.
You talk about IO but all game stopping bugs has been related to scripted events not working properly, like Takemura call. What the heck has that to do with textures and models? You appear to ignore all feedback from first gen console users that tell that stability and performance has been satisfying after patch 1.06 (stability) and 1.1 for performance.
So I can't but to start question if your approach to this is genuine to begin with.
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It doesn't matter how many ray-tracing enabled cards there are out there, since you don't need one. I'm running on a GTX 1070, and the game runs solidly and looks exceedingly good.
I didn't mention population density.
For the rest: there are solid physical limits on what computer hardware can do. I have been building complex software systems for thirty-five years now; I understand a wee bit about this. The newer consoles have substantially more capacity in a number of key areas. Comparing PS4 to PS5, the newer console has
- twice the RAM;
- twice the memory bandwidth;
- between 50 and 90 times the I/O bandwidth.
You can dodge along with textures that are only half the resolution, yes; but you can't dodge along with textures which are only one fiftieth the resolution. But it's worse than that, since we know that the assets required to render some scenes exceed 8Gb, which means they cannot all fit in PS4 memory at once, even if they could be loaded in fast enough.
Computers are not magic. They are machines. They have inherent, hard, limitations. You can't fix this with hand waving.
The Takemura call bug is trivial. Yes, it ought to have been caught in testing, but games, because of their extreme complexity, are very difficult to write full test suites for. And yes, there are a lot more of these tivial bugs than they should be; but they are bugs of a very different order to bugs which are caused by the physical limits of the hardware.
See, that's an agenda that's been pushed for as long as consoles have been around. Yet, it's so wrong.
Games have not become buggier because of consoles. There used to be a time where games were released on both PC and consoles as complete and mostly bug-free products. Back when widely available patches were impossible but most importantly, and that's the really important bit, back when games were a lot simpler.
What we as gamers see is but the surface of it all. The complexity of games has increased exponentially over the years. Just like, as you've pointed out, technological development as a whole. The things we consider as necessary and standard today were pipe dreams just over a decade ago. Most of it is happening in the background, far from gamers' eyes and, sadly, understanding.
Consoles were never the source of PC games getting buggier or "dumbed down". Gamers were. We as a group did this. We wanted better looking games. Better systems. Better stories. Better dialogue. Better collisions. Better "AI". Better mechanics. Better animations. The list goes on. And we didn't want to pay more on top of all that!
To this day we still want games to keep getting better. We require them to get better at everything. Development studios also have to do this within a rather small timeframe since if they don't, by the time they manage to release, their new product will be behind it's competition in terms of innovation and quickly dismissed because of that.
That is why games are buggier than two decades ago. That is why most studios are innovating through very incremental upgrades. Gamers want their cake and to eat it too.
Of course the blame isn't squarely on gamers. It's on studios too. Good management, retaining experienced employees, good practices, setting attainable goals, etc... It all plays a huge role in whether a game is released buggy or not or achieve it's objective. In my opinion this is where CDPR went wrong. They bit off way more than they could chew to make gamers happy (give us our better "everything" so to say) and didn't achieve most of what they set out to do.
Look at indie studios. They don't try to give us a better everything. They try to give a very good X. The game will appeal to a much smaller number of people and, generally speaking, will never attain fame and fortune an AAA game does but it's incredibly simpler in design and development.
The "golden age" of PC games isn't over. It's changed. It's gamers who refuse to see it and accept it. That is now fulfilled by indie studios. Most AAA studios cannot invest hundreds of million into improving everything AND appeal to as many people as possible to make up for those hundreds of million AND provide a "perfect" release AND do it within a small enough timeframe to remain relevant. Even the greatest hits of the last few years rarely achieve all of this.
Then there is the simple risk VS. reward fact. A studio can spend hundred of millions, heck make it a billion, developing what they think is the best game ever. The best everything with the most in-depth and complex, yet, very accessible systems there ever was. All of that on top of optimization the likes of which the world has never seen! Then, it turns out it's not exactly what people wanted. The game doesn't sell nearly as much as it needed and the studio is now in deep trouble.
Ultimately, there are a quite a few factors at play but consoles are not one of them.
This turned out way longer than I thought it would.
There was no promise by CDPR that every feature and DLC moving forward would work on decade old consoles. You got the base game you paid for, they don't owe last-gen consoles continued support going forward, other than patching the existing game.
The fact that games nowadays get churned out incomplete, shoddy or as a live service is not at fault of the consoles, but just a company decision where they want to make money (and some milk it from everything.)
Shareholders as well as overeager (gamer)audience have wrought this new-age construct.
Look at games such as Anthem, FO76, Starwars game (battlefront? or which one was it?) They're either hollow shells of a once good game that started the 'franchise', have nothing new at all and are straight-out copying from other and better games. Or are infested with moneymaking schemes such as a paywall or microtransactions.
Regretfully we will probably not be going back to the days where you get a snes-type game, a clear cut experience, completed and done, so no patches updates or addons afterwards.
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No, companies did this part. Because that is all they have left to push. Eventually, resolution will become meaningless. I personally stopped caring about it at 1080p. Than what are they gonna push? The visual aspect will be diminisihed. All they have left is AI, simulations like cloth, fully destructible environments, and other aspects. That are really not wowing as mush as: OMFG 4k, 8k 300k resolution. SEE, SEE! why we need you to buy our next console.
You view yourself as the rule when you are, in fact, the exception.
This is all true. Computers do what they are told ("traditional" computers do anyway). This raises a relevant question. How can one possibly blame the hardware if the software is instructing it to perform actions beyond it's capabilities?