Thoughts on "last gen" consoles.

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I'm tired of reading the excuse that last gen consoles are somehow holding this game back or are the cause of the problems with development for this game.

The devs have had full access to the X Box One and PS 4 hardware for the entirety of the development time of this game. Cyberpunk 2077 was initially announced right before the launch of the X Box One and PlayStation 4. Think about that - they've had the entire life cycle of this console generation to get this game running on those platforms. Games released at the end of a console's life are supposed to really showcase everything the console is capable of.

To give an example from years ago - somehow devs were able to cram Xenoblade Chronicles onto a cartridge for the New Nintendo 3DS. Yes, they scaled down the textures and only included one voice language. But they managed to get the whole game (MF-ing Xenoblade Chronicles!) in there and running well. I do not believe that the consoles that can run Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey somehow can't handle Night City.

Now, maybe CDPR wasn't lying when they said the game ran 'surprisingly well'. It's possible management knew the game was borked and was expecting the consoles to simply melt into a pile of goo, and so were pleasantly surprised that none of the test systems got bricked. But I think the rest of us had somewhat higher expectations.

Granted, CDPR doesn't have a long history of developing for consoles, though the did manage it for The Witcher 3. It was, after all, The Witcher that spawned the terms "console peasants" and "PC Master Race". Knowing your limitations is part of management's job, and in this it appears they failed miserably. At this point, maybe they need to spend some of that money from one of the greatest game releases ever and hire a studio that specializes in console development to figure this all out.

But there was no reason it had to go down this way, and it absolutely doesn't have to end like this.
 
I'm tired of reading the excuse that last gen consoles are somehow holding this game back or are the cause of the problems with development for this game.

The devs have had full access to the X Box One and PS 4 hardware for the entirety of the development time of this game. Cyberpunk 2077 was initially announced right before the launch of the X Box One and PlayStation 4. Think about that - they've had the entire life cycle of this console generation to get this game running on those platforms. Games released at the end of a console's life are supposed to really showcase everything the console is capable of.

To give an example from years ago - somehow devs were able to cram Xenoblade Chronicles onto a cartridge for the New Nintendo 3DS. Yes, they scaled down the textures and only included one voice language. But they managed to get the whole game (MF-ing Xenoblade Chronicles!) in there and running well. I do not believe that the consoles that can run Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Metro Exodus, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey somehow can't handle Night City.

Now, maybe CDPR wasn't lying when they said the game ran 'surprisingly well'. It's possible management knew the game was borked and was expecting the consoles to simply melt into a pile of goo, and so were pleasantly surprised that none of the test systems got bricked. But I think the rest of us had somewhat higher expectations.

Granted, CDPR doesn't have a long history of developing for consoles, though the did manage it for The Witcher 3. It was, after all, The Witcher that spawned the terms "console peasants" and "PC Master Race". Knowing your limitations is part of management's job, and in this it appears they failed miserably. At this point, maybe they need to spend some of that money from one of the greatest game releases ever and hire a studio that specializes in console development to figure this all out.

But there was no reason it had to go down this way, and it absolutely doesn't have to end like this.

last Gen consoles are substantially different than current Gen pcs. Most multi platform games are built based on consoles and upscaled for PC's Cd did the reverse. A lot of things don't translate well between the two. To have really good ports, it requires a lot of work, might usually take 6 months to a year for a good port.

Basically to make a good port, theyd have had to limit the game to ps4 specs, or they'd have to spend time porting and altering functionality. They underestimated this task, and hoped they could just turn down some settings, which you can but its not the best port.




ps4 was a bad system in terms of being already behind at its release, thats why they had to release ps4 pro midway through. Most of the advantages of working on an old system only work if you primarily develop for that system, because they are usually hacks/features you can't apply to other platforms. So, basically as I said, a good console port takes time.
 
I'd say last year's releases were more a show of the PS4 gen at its peak eg RDR2, once the new gen is out/due anything last-g is always gonna be straining the hardware past its limit somewhere or other. Far Cry 4, Black Ops 3, Shadow of Mordor etc from PS3/X360 spring to mind. Personally I think CP is closer to MGSV was on last-er-last gen, creaking at the seams but still a top drawer immersive gaming experience, that will be at its best on the latest hardware (presuming in hope that they take their time this time to learn how to make the most of the PS5's idiosyncracies, whatever they may be).
 
Hi , first of all , xbox one and ps4 are not last gen :
50 xbox one ,120 million ps4 sold over the world make them CURRENT GEN
the 3.5 millions of serieSX and 4.5 million of ps5 could be next gen if more clients need a 8k tv raytracing 120 framerates to watch movie ,serie ,sport, documentary ...with familly and friends 2 hours a day after work

Then
From wikipedia cyberpunk 2077 page :
en.wikipedia.org
Cyberpunk 2077 - Wikipedia

[COLOR=rgba(218, 218, 218, 0.6)]
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

..."Cyberpunk 2077 was announced in may 2012. Trailers for the game were released in January 2013, at E3 2018, and at E3 2019. The game was initially confirmed for Microsoft Windows, with Playstation 4 and Xbox One announced at E3 2018. Stadia was announced in August 2019
At E3 2019, an initial release date of 16 April 2020 was announced. This was delayed to 17 September, then 19 November, and finally 10 December.
With E3 2020 cancelled because of the COVID-19 pandemic, CD Projekt's online event Night City Wire showed additionnal trailers, more gameplay, and making of footage.
Next -generation ports for Xbox Series X/S and Playstation 5 were announced for 2021. Owners of Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions will be able to freely download the game on their respective next-generation models. The delayed standalone multiplayer was announced to launch after 2021"...

As u can read here, it was first announced in may 2012 ,confirmed at E3 2018 for windows ps4 xbox one... Stadia appear in 2019 ,and Xbox serieSX ps5 as PORTS for 2021, in the software development calendar/programmed...
But instead of a ports ,it s a software made for ps5 xbox serieSX which was sold in 2020 ,and a poor downgrade port for xbox one and ps4 which could be finished,or not ,

after than data collected from the public open beta test for (pre order) xbox one s client could be study to finish development of this software



So all the marketing campaign is a lie... Next gen mean next gen of client (as beta tester from software they ll buy as game)
 
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My base X1 plays the game better than some high end PCs according to everything I've seen.

I spent the entire generation regretting going X1 over PS4 only for CDPR to come through in the clutch with a 99.9% flawless performance of Cyberpunk 2077.

After 500 hours I reinstalled GTAV to finally get to that Cayo Perico. I crashed 4 times and encountered some 57 bugs in 3 hours in an invite lobby... With Madden, I crash around 2 times every stretch just in franchise mode running simulations. Nearly every game I play I crash & have a lot of bugs. Even when offline. Cyberpunk 2077 has been the best performing game I have played on the console both online & offline. At 1.04 I clogged my hard drive & started going offline to play Cyberpunk out of fear of my game being ruined by peasants & pheasants.
500+ hours in, 1 avoidable minor bug, 2 crashes, both crashes being my fault.

I actually expected the game to perform poorly but decided not to cancel my preorder. 2 of my favorite games the past 2 generations are New Vegas & Saint's Row 2. With SR2, I have played through every year since release with over 40 complete playthroughs. So, I knew I wouldn't even be bothered by performance issues. I was blown the fuck away, the closest thing to flawless performance I have ever played.
 
My base X1 plays the game better than some high end PCs according to everything I've seen.

I spent the entire generation regretting going X1 over PS4 only for CDPR to come through in the clutch with a 99.9% flawless performance of Cyberpunk 2077.

After 500 hours I reinstalled GTAV to finally get to that Cayo Perico. I crashed 4 times and encountered some 57 bugs in 3 hours in an invite lobby... With Madden, I crash around 2 times every stretch just in franchise mode running simulations. Nearly every game I play I crash & have a lot of bugs. Even when offline. Cyberpunk 2077 has been the best performing game I have played on the console both online & offline. At 1.04 I clogged my hard drive & started going offline to play Cyberpunk out of fear of my game being ruined by peasants & pheasants.
500+ hours in, 1 avoidable minor bug, 2 crashes, both crashes being my fault.

I actually expected the game to perform poorly but decided not to cancel my preorder. 2 of my favorite games the past 2 generations are New Vegas & Saint's Row 2. With SR2, I have played through every year since release with over 40 complete playthroughs. So, I knew I wouldn't even be bothered by performance issues. I was blown the fuck away, the closest thing to flawless performance I have ever played.
I'm also getting more hours into the PC version of the game, playing around in Watson again. But I also have to say that I prefer the playability on my PS4 (specifically the driving).
Okay, I'll be honest about the world, it does look better on PC (although I do not find it substancial enough to not want to play on PS4) and also the world is much more densely populated for PC, but all that didnt bother me while on PS4, even now knowing its like that.

So as far as I am concerned, and I was since a few days already. I think CDPR did a good job from launch until now to fix the game to a satisfying, no...good state where it plays very nice.
And I'd argue that last-gens are actually performing the best all things considered (bugs, crashes etc) so is my experience anyway, certified crashfree since 1,1 and only rarely a minor bug or glitch that doesnt break anything, just looks funny. Never ever had questbreaking bugs or other.
 
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Hi , first of all , xbox one and ps4 are not last gen :
50 xbox one ,120 million ps4 sold over the world make them CURRENT GEN
the 3.5 millions of serieSX and 4.5 million of ps5 could be next gen if more clients need a 8k tv raytracing 120 framerates to watch movie ,serie ,sport, documentary ...with familly and friends 2 hours a day after work

Then
From wikipedia cyberpunk 2077 page :
en.wikipedia.org
Cyberpunk 2077 - Wikipedia

[COLOR=rgba(218, 218, 218, 0.6)]
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

..."Cyberpunk 2077 was announced in may 2012. Trailers for the game were released in January 2013, at E3 2018, and at E3 2019. The game was initially confirmed for Microsoft Windows, with Playstation 4 and Xbox One announced at E3 2018. Stadia was announced in August 2019
At E3 2019, an initial release date of 16 April 2020 was announced. This was delayed to 17 September, then 19 November, and finally 10 December.
With E3 2020 cancelled because of the COVID-19 pandemic, CD Projekt's online event Night City Wire showed additionnal trailers, more gameplay, and making of footage.
Next -generation ports for Xbox Series X/S and Playstation 5 were announced for 2021. Owners of Xbox One and Playstation 4 versions will be able to freely download the game on their respective next-generation models. The delayed standalone multiplayer was announced to launch after 2021"...

As u can read here, it was first announced in may 2012 ,confirmed at E3 2018 for windows ps4 xbox one... Stadia appear in 2019 ,and Xbox serieSX ps5 as PORTS for 2021, in the software development calendar/programmed...
But instead of a ports ,it s a software made for ps5 xbox serieSX which was sold in 2020 ,and a poor downgrade port for xbox one and ps4 which could be finished,or not ,

after than data collected from the public open beta test for (pre order) xbox one s client could be study to finish development of this software



So all the marketing campaign is a lie... Next gen mean next gen of client (as beta tester from software they ll buy as game)

you can call ps4 current Gen or old Gen if you want, the fact is its 8 years old tech, which wasn't cutting edge when it was released. And they had to release ps4pro 5 years ago because it was behind. It has limitations, and needs special considerations in order to perform optimaly
 
you can call ps4 current Gen or old Gen if you want, the fact is its 8 years old tech, which wasn't cutting edge when it was released. And they had to release ps4pro 5 years ago because it was behind. It has limitations, and needs special considerations in order to perform optimaly

Doesn't matter if it was or is "cutting edge". The fact remains that any hardware requires careful consideration when programming for it to achieve optimal results. The problem is that this game wasn't even finished in time, let alone optimized for any of the hardware that it is running on and due to the current state of rapid technological advancement, developers seem to be going through a phase of not optimizing and attempting to let the sheer grunt of the hardware take care of it for them. It used to be that by the end of a console's life cycle (not actually there for either the PS4 or Xbox One yet), you would see the full potential of the hardware unlocked as it capabilities were by then well understood and the programmers were very familiar with the systems. Now, the narrative is that the day a piece of technology releases that supercedes what you have, what you have is instantly useless and obsolete. All marks of a throwaway consumer society with little appreciation for, or real understanding of the technology they use.
 
Now, the narrative is that the day a piece of technology releases that supercedes what you have, what you have is instantly useless and obsolete. All marks of a throwaway consumer society with little appreciation for, or real understanding of the technology they use.
This! It feels like it hammers home the exact issue that flares the entire discussion surrounding generation-systems.
 
What concerns me; you know this game so famous, with Cowboys, brigands and Indians [...] when I see the texture rendering, the grass, the passing train, deers, buffalos, rabbits, birds, the mulitples noises of this nature who lives, the noise of hooves followed by the breath of my horse, his breathing which becomes heavy with the effort; no bugs, no slow motion; this is a particularly successful job.
of course, the million dollar question; how could CDPR be so wrong with their work so much?
and this question is always asked, it will be, I fear, forever.

notice; i play PS4 pro console.
 
I don't think it's a damn miracle that rendering lot's of skybox and similar textures, tree assets and such is quite different from detail needed to portray the Night City.
 
This! It feels like it hammers home the exact issue that flares the entire discussion surrounding generation-systems.

Nowadays by the time you can buy it the next product is "released". There is a just buy it joke there somewhere. Come to think of it, there are several.
 
it was a bad idea to release it on hardware from 2013 in the first place.
all the time and resources that go into downgrading it for old hardware could be spent on improving the game.
 
it was a bad idea to release it on hardware from 2013 in the first place.
all the time and resources that go into downgrading it for old hardware could be spent on improving the game.

I can see why they wanted to do it, but they probably should have done it post pc development, maybe hiring another studio more experienced in getting the biggest bang out of consoles
 
Nowadays by the time you can buy it the next product is "released". There is a just buy it joke there somewhere. Come to think of it, there are several.
For some reason this made me think or the orgianic commercial in CP77 that we can see on TV screens :LOL:
But yeah, it does feel often like products meant for X arrive after the fact.
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it was a bad idea to release it on hardware from 2013 in the first place.
all the time and resources that go into downgrading it for old hardware could be spent on improving the game.
Why? At that time of development PS4 and XO were thé concoles, PS4 pro was just around the corner and no sight whatsoever for a succeeding device. After those, not to mention if/when anything would drop.
And during that time, if one cuts out the 2 main consoles for a game would be cutring off ones arm
So this reaaon sounds like void to me.
 
last Gen consoles are substantially different than current Gen pcs. Most multi platform games are built based on consoles and upscaled for PC's Cd did the reverse. A lot of things don't translate well between the two. To have really good ports, it requires a lot of work, might usually take 6 months to a year for a good port.

Basically to make a good port, theyd have had to limit the game to ps4 specs, or they'd have to spend time porting and altering functionality. They underestimated this task, and hoped they could just turn down some settings, which you can but its not the best port.




ps4 was a bad system in terms of being already behind at its release, thats why they had to release ps4 pro midway through. Most of the advantages of working on an old system only work if you primarily develop for that system, because they are usually hacks/features you can't apply to other platforms. So, basically as I said, a good console port takes time.
As a former PS4 and PS4 pro user, I can guarantee you that the pro was not released because PS4 couldn't handle game, but only and I repeat, ONLY because of 4k TV market share (same for Xbox).

Talking about AAA games, the only 2 games where you can notice the difference between PS4 and pro apart from simple resolution are control and days gone who had serious problems with frame rate. All the other games look and play exactly the same on the 2 machines.

I'm not denying that old gen was built with the idea to be affordable to anyone (that's why hardware-wise they weren't that performing) but it's extremely important to note that pretty much all the other AAA studios designed games that could run on those machines. At the same time, I'm very confident that CP77 could run on them with no particular issues, IF CDPR actually had time to optimize ( = managers fucked up). And in few (?) months the game will run at 30fps on the lower end base Xbox one.

Simply put, CDPR has no valid excuses and whoever is taking decisions should be substituted ASAP, ideally with the lead game designer who on too many aspects has no imagination or will to bring something new to gaming.

Not to mention the marketing team, who definitely brought undeserved profit to the company (kudos, I guess) but destroyed the customers trust.
 
Red Dead Redemption 2 and Odysseys are vast naturalistic enviroments. To render a complex city is a different thing.

To be fair, it's all just maths as far as the hardware is concerned as the hardware doesn't care what it is rendering, but how it is asked to go about it and whether it is within its capabilities. Besides, why is the assumption being made that a city is more complex than nature?
 
Besides, why is the assumption being made that a city is more complex than nature?

In general there are more geometries to render, for the buildings and the clutter, and more AI to manage. Old gen consoles for example, in RDR 2, are really put to test in Saint Denis, goign constantly under 30 fps. And Saint Denis isn't as complex ad Night City
 
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