2019 DEMO was telling the truth, you just didn't listen.

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About pedestrian and NPC traffic in general.

I checked video from LastKnownMeal regarding that and I think I get some of it.

He has a point about NPC guns, but there's also a matter that when V is pointing a gun at them, it's too late for them to pull theirs, unless they have a death wish.

Example of NPC traffic was good, a van just driving around a block. I never paid any attention to that and I wonder why is that happening?

Meanwhile in entirely unrelated discussion someone came up with IMO pretty great idea and that gave me some inspiration too.
 
Example of NPC traffic was good, a van just driving around a block. I never paid any attention to that and I wonder why is that happening?
Because CDPR either didn't care to implement actual AI, NPCs' routines, etc., or the game was rushed and they went with the easiest solution of just looping scripted behavior to create only an illusion of living, breathing city, with the hope that no one will actually follow NPCs/cars and find out about this. Too bad they literally advertised NPCs' routines in interviews :shrug:
 
Because CDPR either didn't care to implement actual AI, NPCs' routines, etc., or the game was rushed and they went with the easiest solution of just looping scripted behavior to create only an illusion of living, breathing city, with the hope that no one will actually follow NPCs/cars and find out about this. Too bad they literally advertised NPCs' routines in interviews
That is exception to what I saw. I wonder how large area there is in the game that works in real time around the player.

How can people defend police spawning behind the player.
How can keep defending the braindead AI that turns off if you put a car in front of it. In a 2020 game?
What is wrong with you

I think consensus is that police AI is not fully implemented so who are you arguing? Why don't you read the thread you post or is it just your intention to shitpost to begin with?

What comes to AI switching off, didn't see that happen. They do not react to car horn, but otherwise they kept going on with whatever they were doing.
 
That is exception to what I saw.

One of many portals in the game.

Some incredible daily routine there. ;)

I wonder how large area there is in the game that works in real time around the player.

Not that large. Sometimes even your field of view is to small to render (stream) everything properly in RED engine. It happens that NPCs and vehicles appear and disappear (spawn and despawn) even in front of your eyes. And I am not talking about the infamous sprites in the distance.

Very immersive.
 
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That is exception to what I saw.
And what exactly did you saw? Have you seen NPCs getting in and out of cars on their own, driving to specific destination, going to the park to sit on a bench, entering bars, restaurants, etc.? Because I definitely haven't seen anything like this. What I saw were cars riding in circles and randomly disappearing when I wasn't looking for a second, and NPCs walking to the one end of the street, than just turning around and going to another one, again and again and again. The only interaction of the NPC with the environment I've seen was with the vending machines (even if those were literally non-existent).

In one of the gigs Fixer, Merc, Soldier, Spy V needs to steal a shard and deliver it to Regina's client. Shady business, she even warns you to not ask any questions. After that the client goes into the car with his bodyguards and drive off. I've decided to follow them, because I was interested in who exactly they were and what are they going to do with the shard. Do you know what they did? Absolutely nothing. They were driving in circles as long as I had them in my eyesight. This is how this whole game works.
 
One of many portals in the game.

Some incredible daily routine there. ;)
I don't think that actually has to do with pedestrian AI per se, but other factors. I didn't really paid attention to these sort of things.


Not that large. Sometimes even your field of view is to small to render (stream) everything properly in RED engine. It happens that NPCs and vehicles appear and disappear (spawn and despawn) even in front of your eyes. And I am not talking about sprites in the distance.
I didn't had that but sometimes when I run to one direction and then turned suddenly, NPC cars had changed color or were missing.

And what exactly did you saw? Have you seen NPCs getting in and out of cars on their own, driving to specific destination, going to the park to sit on a bench, entering bars, restaurants, etc.? Because I definitely haven't seen anything like this. What I saw were cars riding in circles and randomly disappearing when I wasn't looking for a second, and NPCs walking to the one end of the street, than just turning around and going to another one, again and again and again. The only interaction of the NPC with the environment I've seen was with the vending machines (even if those were literally non-existent).

In one of the gigs Fixer, Merc, Soldier, Spy V needs to steal a shard and deliver it to Regina's client. Shady business, she even warns you to not ask any questions. After that the client goes into the car with his bodyguards and drive off. I've decided to follow them, because I was interested in who exactly they were and what are they going to do with the shard. Do you know what they did? Absolutely nothing. They were driving in circles as long as I had them in my eyesight. This is how this whole game works.

They went to sit on benches, did things with their mobile or something. Some wondered to alleys to take a piss and then moved on. NPC's playing instruments.

And what comes to entering to buildings, then question would be, why player can't enter to those when NPC's can.

I think it's quite telling when someone actually comes up with a good idea like Fender did, nobody is talking about that, nobody is giving likes. It starts to feel like you know, mediocre AI that actually isn't any use to improve some product and like that.
 
They went to sit on benches, did things with their mobile or something. Some wondered to alleys to take a piss and then moved on. NPC's playing instruments.
You've seen an NPC sitting down on a bench, or grabbing the instrument and starting to play it? Not NPCs that were already doing this things, but actual activity of sitting down/grabbing something with whole animation, etc.?
 
I think consensus is that police AI is not fully implemented

How do you know that it's "not fully implemented"? If we consider its own set of rules, this system works like a charm (no bugs).

From our perspective it seems like a placeholder, yes. But it does not mean that it is not fully implemented or that it does not work as intended (by the developers). They were not able to give us something better, so here we are.
 
You've seen an NPC sitting down on a bench, or grabbing the instrument and starting to play it? Not NPCs that were already doing this things, but actual activity of sitting down/grabbing something with whole animation, etc.?
I was very specifically describing mobile, as phone.

How do you know that it's "not fully implemented"? If we consider its own set of rules, this system works like a charm (no bugs).

From our perspective it seems like a placeholder, yes. But it does not mean that it is not fully implemented or that it does not work as intended (by the developers). They were not able to give us something better, so here we are.
For my part I just don't think it's plausible that they planned it that way from the beginning. It wouldn't be from their reach to have Max-Tac to drop from AV-4's, for example.
 
Okay, you're coming off contradictory now. You want change but not too much change. Nor do you want the player to have a direct effect on people or impact their current routines? How ever would the world change without some sort of scripted event? I don't think we're quite there yet to have a world react to you in real time.

Algorithms and procedural subroutines. You have have dynamism without being scripted. Many games do this, it's nothing new.
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They were not able to give us something better, so here we are.

If that's the case they are in the wrong business. Why would they not be able to give us "something better", when examples of far better AI exist in games ten years older? Are you saying CDPR are shit programmers?
 
If that's the case they are in the wrong business. Why would they not be able to give us "something better", when examples of far better AI exist in games ten years older? Are you saying CDPR are shit programmers?

It certainly shows that the current team is not on par with the old one ( the one who worked on TW3, which was not that great mechanically but at least tried to carry its weight with the story).
I think that they thought that the goodwill they had would carry them this time and If all this mess didn't happen they would have been actually okay with this.
 
If that's the case they are in the wrong business. Why would they not be able to give us "something better", when examples of far better AI exist in games ten years older? Are you saying CDPR are shit programmers?

I have no idea. They were unable to deliver something better within the time constraints. My guess is that they have some serious problems with RED engine streaming capabilities and storing so much data in memory. That's why we'll not get any significant AI improvements in the game.

Here's a video for you

How AI (pedestrians, bystanders) work in CP2077?

It's something like that:

If player enters the area:
- spawn AI out of thin air (in the distance or in some back alley with the portal).

If the player turns around:
- despawn AI (usually right away) and remove it from the memory COMPLETELY.

If the player stays in the area and

A) spawned AI is within his/her field of view and is a pedestrian:
- make AI follow the prescripted path from point A to point B;
- if AI reaches point B, it should turn around and try to reach point A etc.
- if AI reaches a specific trigger (vending machine, bench, smoking corner etc.) along the path between A and B, it should perform a specific contextual animation (buy, eat, smoke, turn the tablet on etc.) and then continue along the path;

B) spawned AI is within his/her field of view and is a customer/worker/musician/policeman:
- AI should stay in one place and perform some contextual action (animation) in a loop.

Of course, it's quite simplified description. But what's important: there are no "daily routines" in CP2077. Because AI's "lifespan" is dependent on the player's presence. AI might be alive for just 2 seconds. As soon as the player leaves the area, AI "dies" and is completely removed from memory. The game does not keep track of random AIs in the city. You will never meet exactly the same person twice. It might be the same model in the same outfit. But not the same AI. (Perhaps with the exception of some AI in crucial points in the city that are chained to some location forever).

It's different in e.g. RDR2. Obviously, AI disappears (is not rendered) when the player leaves the area. But the game stores some data in the memory and "revives" this AI if you return to the same place. You can also follow the specific AI and see that it behaves quite reasonably (works, walks, sleeps etc.). It has daily routine.

Traffic AI in CP2077 is similar to pedestrian AI. All cars spawn out of thin air and, if you turn around, disappear in the void forever. There is no AI in all of this. These are all dummies that perform prescripted action: moving from point A to point B (and stop at a red light or when the player/other car is hit). They are unable to react even to some small changes in the environment (e.g. bike on the road) that are caused by the player. If anything stands in their prescripted way, they stop and wait for the player to turn around so they can disappear.

That's why all our dreams about AI or traffic improvements are just... dreams. I think that CDPR needs to build AI from scratch. And redesign streaming capabilities of the engine to make it possible.
 
Of course, it's quite simplified description. But what's important: there are no "daily routines" in CP2077. Because AI's "lifespan" is dependent on the player's presence. AI might be alive for just 2 seconds. As soon as the player leaves the area, AI "dies" and is completely removed from memory. The game does not keep track of random AIs in the city. You will never meet exactly the same person twice. It might be the same model in the same outfit. But not the same AI. (Perhaps with the exception of some AI in crucial points in the city that are chained to some location forever).

This has been covered in this topic. There's no hardware that could run that with population density of the Night City. Further, where that all comes wasn't what CDRP even said, but some (German?) gaming magazine or website making their own interpretation what CDRP said. They have routines like we see, but something like going to work and back and that was never promised to begin with.

It's different in e.g. RDR2. Obviously, AI disappears (is not rendered) when the player leaves the area. But the game stores some data in the memory and "revives" this AI if you return to the same place. You can also follow the specific AI and see that it behaves quite reasonably (works, walks, sleeps etc.). It has daily routine.
I checked couple of videos of RDR2 and population density isn't anywhere near what it is in CP 2077. It also comes to matters I wrote earlier. Sure we could have NPC's entering and exiting building, but then why wouldn't player do that?
 
Further, where that all comes wasn't what CDRP even said, but some (German?) gaming magazine or website making their own interpretation what CDRP said.
It's from the gamestar.de's podcast with Senior Quest Designer Philipp Weber and Senior Level Designer Miles Tost from CD Projekt Red.

Source: Folge 81: So machen die Cyberpunk-Macher trotz Corona-Krise weiter (gamestar.de)
Reddit post with some translated points from the podcast: A list of all things I found important from German Podcasts with the devs. : cyberpunkgame (reddit.com)
 
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