You actually get to play some this, with the whole shower scene where V blatantly lies about things being fine after coughing blood, and then the repeated "I don't want to talk about this now"-deal.
Given what you bring up in #2 above I'd hardly blame Judy, but I do blame the writers for forcing that situation.
Think I'll have to replay that ending because that's absolutely not what I took away from that dialogue, to me it seemed Mr. Blue Eyes picked V because they indeed refuse to die, against all odds. But the dialogue, to me, very heavily implied the reward was material, to which V basically replies they don't care anymore at that point.
Why pick V? Because they have nothing to lose, but still refuse to let go of life. This, of course, heavily implies V played a certain way (solo Arasaka assault makes the most sense here, imho).
It would be just as reasonable to assume V just didn't want to lose themselves, and even if they are dying they basically reached that goal. There's no way for Mr. Blue Eyes to know this though (or for the player to RP that route, for that matter).
Again, you assume Mr Blue Eyes offers a possible solution, that is where we (possibly, see above) disagree, I don't think he did. And if he did then the LI responses make even less sense, though V sticking around in NC does make more sense in that case.
Even if you are in the client confidentiality-camp telling your LI you have a last ditch effort mission isn't exactly telling them much.
I do think we have reached the core of our difference of opinion here though: what we took away from the dialogue with Mr Blue Eyes. I'll go through that ending again, maybe It will make me change my mind.
Judy told V the day they got together she was planning to leave, but now she has to wait for the relationship. The writers didnt create that situation, V and Judy decided to get in the relationship knowing the situation
I don't know if not wanting to talk about coughing up blood is a wall, Judy knows the situation, and that Vs condition is getting worse.
Judy simply wants to leave for herself, Looking at it again, she doesn't even particularly want V to come with her. So I take back that she wants V to sacrifice for her. She's just done. Whether V lives or dies, she's out regardless.
I do unironically like Takemura, and it's cool that he's with you in the Devil, though the other endings all he does is yell at you and imply he's considered giving his innards an emergency evacuation (again, not necessarily a complaint, this is totally within his character). Feels off to go out of your way to make the punishment ending more bearable.
Judy told V the day they got together she was planning to leave, but now she has to wait for the relationship. The writers didnt create that situation, V and Judy decided to get in the relationship knowing the situation
I don't know if not wanting to talk about coughing up blood is a wall, Judy knows the situation, and that Vs condition is getting worse.
Judy simply wants to leave for herself, Looking at it again, she doesn't even particularly want V to come with her. So I take back that she wants V to sacrifice for her. She's just done. Whether V lives or dies, she's out regardless.
The situation Dragon is referring to is the fact V must refuse to open up to Judy and ends up running off to space. Yeah, Judy leaves over it. That isn't the disagreeable part. The disagreeable part is you have to behave this way toward Judy and leave her hanging while you run off to space (this part is forced).
Put differently, V is presented a choice in the epliogue (leave or remain in NC) but the player can't actually choose which option V selects in the epilogue. It's arguably terrible form for a game featuring choices and consequences.
The situation Dragon is referring to is the fact V must refuse to open up to Judy and ends up running off to space. Yeah, Judy leaves over it. That isn't the disagreeable part. The disagreeable part is you have to behave this way toward Judy and leave her hanging while you run off to space (this part is forced).
Put differently, V is presented a choice in the epliogue (leave or remain in NC) but the player can't actually choose which option V selects in the epilogue. It's arguably terrible form for a game featuring choices and consequences.
Judy doesn't leave because of it, Judy leaves because she hates NC. in every ending she either leaves NC or cries about leaving NC. Judy doesn't ask V to go with her. Judy isn't willing to put her life on hold. She wants to find herself, and V's life is not her primary concern.
V's choices lead to why they are in each ending.
choice:
V takes on Arasaka with minimal numbers.
consequence:
V's deal with blue eyes is the result of the choice of taking on Arasaka with no one to seize their technology, Blue eyes took advantage, which lead to their relationship. And Sun V's only known chance of survival.
choice:
V takes on Arasaka with nomads.
result:
Nomads get massive technology, increased influence, and increased connections, Allowing Panam to find/deal with leads that might lead to star V's survival.
choice:
V helps hanako take over, giving soulkiller, relic, themself to Arasaka
consequence:
Arasaka has all the relic 2.0/soulkiller knowledge And Vs only chance of survival.
choice:
V chooses life when alt asks.
consequence:
V who goes back will pursue a cure
V staying in NC is the result of their choice to go solo/rogue. Choices have consequences, its not always clear what choices will lead to what consequence. But its V's choice that lead to the events where blue eyes is his only shot to survive.
If you don't like that choice, choose nomads. The player has the choice to stay in NC or not. The player can choose to pursue life or not.
It is true, the player can't choose to die peacefully in 6 months with their LI, I guess thats an oversight, but I think most LI would rather V attempt to live.
Judy doesn't leave because of it, Judy leaves because she hates NC. in every ending she either leaves NC or cries about leaving NC. Judy doesn't ask V to go with her. Judy isn't willing to put her life on hold. She wants to find herself, and V's life is not her primary concern.
Yep, Judy has hit her breaking point and needs to get out of the cesspool known as NC. The question is why can't V go with her? It's the same deal with certain other romances and various other aspects of the game. Why can't the player choose how V handles it? Why is the game better off without such choices? The only way I can rationalize it is fleshing it out properly would require more content.
V staying in NC is the result of their choice to go solo/rogue. Choices have consequences, its not always clear what choices will lead to what consequence. But its V's choice that lead to the events where blue eyes is his only shot to survive.
Choices having unforseen consequences is fine if the consequence fits the choice. It's not in this case because staying or leaving NC is a completely independent choice and should not be tied to the rooftop decision the way it is in the game.
This is called metagaming. I can't know this when deciding how to raid Arasaka tower. The only way I can know it is if I use hindsight and rely on my own knowledge, beyond that of the character, and act upon it. I shouldn't have to deliberately metagame in an RPG. Such a setup, in any form, is antithetical to the genre.
Yep, Judy has hit her breaking point and needs to get out of the cesspool known as NC. The question is why can't V go with her? It's the same deal with certain other romances and various other aspects of the game. Why can't the player choose how V handles it? Why is the game better off without such choices? The only way I can rationalize it is fleshing it out properly would require more content.
Choices having unforseen consequences is fine if the consequence fits the choice. It's not in this case because staying or leaving NC is a completely independent choice and should not be tied to the rooftop decision the way it is in the game.
This is called metagaming. I can't know this when deciding how to raid Arasaka tower. The only way I can know it is if I use hindsight and rely on my own knowledge, beyond that of the character, and act upon it. I shouldn't have to deliberately metagame in an RPG. Such a setup, in any form, is antithetical to the genre.
Yeah 100% this. Even if there was a big flashing neon sign over the choice saying this defines your V's personality completely, i'd argue that it would still be atrocious to use a how you approach saving your life as your fixed lifestyle and personality choice. Furthermore I don't see anything good about unforseen character behaviour, good games allow you predictable behaviour, i pick this choice my character will say this. What they shouldn't do is i pick this and and my character does x,y,z choices unrelated to that choice as the ending heavyhandedly does.
Yep, Judy has hit her breaking point and needs to get out of the cesspool known as NC. The question is why can't V go with her? It's the same deal with certain other romances and various other aspects of the game. Why can't the player choose how V handles it? Why is the game better off without such choices? The only way I can rationalize it is fleshing it out properly would require more content.
Choices having unforseen consequences is fine if the consequence fits the choice. It's not in this case because staying or leaving NC is a completely independent choice and should not be tied to the rooftop decision the way it is in the game.
This is called metagaming. I can't know this when deciding how to raid Arasaka tower. The only way I can know it is if I use hindsight and rely on my own knowledge, beyond that of the character, and act upon it. I shouldn't have to deliberately metagame in an RPG. Such a setup, in any form, is antithetical to the genre.
The consequences actually fit the choice. The question was essentially this, you are dying, this is your last chance, who do you think is your best chance at survival
the endings place your best chance at survival in the same factions you chose before.
nomads
NC's elite/merc
Arasaka
The idea that the player will always know where their choices lead, is in fact it is generally not the case at all. Almost every rpg is designed to have unforseen consequences. Why do you think almost every event involves dice? Why is the GM in charge of the narrative? The consequence merely has to make sense given the circumstances. It is generally not neccesarily what the player expects.
the player who wants a specific outcome is going to have to metagame. Crpgs are OK with this. if the player wants to play the game over again to get the answer they like thats fine.
the missing choice is letting the player choose to reject the only survival option when faced with the reality they created. The reason they probably forgo this choice is for a smoother reveal, and because they just asked you if you wanted to live right before this. I guess that may have been a mistake.
but I don't think any of you guys would be any happier given this
Judy: I'm leaving V.... I can't take it anymore
1)Sorry Judy, I have to do this
2)I can't live without you, I want to spend my last moments with you.
choose 1):
sun ending continues as it does
choose 2):
Some time later, Columbarium in Oregon. Judy weeps as she puts a braindance in the draw. A man with glowing blue eyes in a fancy suit walks up, bows his head, then says. Truly a waste of talent, my friend.. You could have made a difference and possibly still been alive today. He puts a Crystal Palace pamphlet in the draw and Walks away as Judy is wracked with savage uncontrollable sobbing.
I doubt people would be happy with that because the gripe is not really about player choice and consequences, its about the player not controlling the entire story. Which is not what the rpg genre has ever been about.
Over the last 800 pages we had countless moments where a fresh user popped in and said that Cyberpunk is inherently a dark world, where things usually don't end well.
But this is a misunderstanding, CP was never created as some kind of grimdark world where failure is 99% of the outcomes. This was never Mike Pondsmith's (the creator of Cyberpunk, who worked with CDPR) vision, cause he knew that a world, where the players cannot win, makes a very poor gaming or story-telling vehicle.
Please read the interviews with him, Google is your friend.
Some quotes from Pondsmith:
“Characters in Cyberpunk are heroes, and survive and do well because they are willing to fight for family or friends, for their neighbourhoods,”
“When I wrote Cyberpunk back in the day, the idea was to show a dark mirror of the world we have been shaping since the 1980s. It was a warning, yes, but I also made all of you the heroes of this dystopian world. You weren’t there to be ground underfoot like Rick Deckard, or exploited and enslaved like Roy Batty. You were there to grab the wheel, steal the power, break the strangleholds of the corrupt and gun down the thugs they sent to crush you."
I’m very familiar with Mike Pondsmith, after playing the pen and paper version of Cyberpunk 2020 for more than 15 years. I agree with you, Cyberpunk was never meant to be hardcore where failure is the 99% outcome. But it was never meant to be the milk and cookie version either. It was meant to be hard, because it was much more satisfying when you survived, overcame the obstacles and pulled through.
Mike Pondsmith was inspired by William Gibson, the author who coined the Cyberpunk genre and used Gibson’s writing for the setting in Cyberpunk 2020.
Gibson wrote a lot of material for the genre, most of the stories had ‘happy endings’ but most of the short stories, did not. But in general the heroes in Cyberpunk are usually heavily manipulated, have little or no choice and even when they pulled through, didn’t gain much more than they had in the beginning. So happy endings in Cyberpunk might be a little different from other genres.
Pondsmith is ‘Pretty happy’ and satisfied with CDPR’s take on Cyberpunk 2020 which “Is pretty darn close”, so if Pondsmith believes that the heroes should survive and have ‘happy endings’ and he was the consultant and had a lot of influence on Cyberpunk 2077, then why did he approve of the dark endings? Could it be because he thought it was fitting, because its a dark world?
The consequences actually fit the choice. The question was essentially this, you are dying, this is your last chance, who do you think is your best chance at survival
the endings place your best chance at survival in the same factions you chose before.
nomads
NC's elite/merc
Arasaka
but I don't think any of you guys would be any happier given this
Judy: I'm leaving V.... I can't take it anymore
1)Sorry Judy, I have to do this
2)I can't live without you, I want to spend my last moments with you.
choose 1):
sun ending continues as it does
choose 2):
Some time later, Columbarium in Oregon. Judy weeps as she puts a braindance in the draw. A man with glowing blue eyes in a fancy suit walks up, bows his head, then says. Truly a waste of talent, my friend.. You could have made a difference and possibly still been alive today. He puts a Crystal Palace pamphlet in the draw and Walks away as Judy is wracked with savage uncontrollable sobbing.
How about 3) Judy says where exactly she's going, just in case V makes it. Two choices here: V says "Wait for me, I'll make it!" or "Nope, that's the end, not leaving NC".
Yeah, but the chance at survival doesn't equal love interests or V leaving or not leaving town.
e.g. Need Panam to attack Arasaka. Don't need Panam to look for the cure with me. Don't want to leave NC.
How about 3) Judy says where exactly she's going, just in case V makes it. Two choices here: V says "Wait for me, I'll make it!" or "Nope, that's the end, not leaving NC".
V's action on the roof alters the balance of power in NC. The balance of power in NC is what determines where Vs best chance of survival is.
This is why V can't choose nomads for the attack, then leave nomads and have a good chance to survive.
if V picks panam, arasaka is crippled, and are not viable. V has no props within the merc world, and no new connections with people in that circle, like Blue eyes. And blue eyes says this opportunity was created because his people were able to loot Arasaka. In nomad ending, they were the ones to loot arasaka.
The Nomads get the glory, and the spoils, and the connections. V has access to that through them.
So it would be similar, a choice to die in 6 months on your own or go with aldecados for a chance to survive in Star path.
As to we'll meet after,
Judy is basically the one who cuts off that possibility, not V. Panam says call me when you are better. River in the message says he'll visit the nomad camp with joss, Kerry says he'll forgive V if they come back to NC. Judy is like have a nice life. I would guess if V showed up at her door, shed probably give V a shot, but she isn't presenting it to V at the time.
You are talking about the Sun ending, but then switch to River's Star message, and then to Kerry's Star one, but then come back to Judy's Devil/Sun message... what are you on about? I don't get it.
You are talking about the Sun ending, but then switch to River's Star message, and then to Kerry's Star one, but then come back to Judy's Devil/Sun message... what are you on about? I don't get it.
The context was, why can't you tell Judy that V will hook back up with her after the mission.?
My point was Judy is unique. She is the only LI where V is not presented the possibility of getting back together after going on a path opposed to the LI. The point is Judy is the reason its not an option, not V
V's action on the roof alters the balance of power in NC. The balance of power in NC is what determines where Vs best chance of survival is.
This is why V can't choose nomads for the attack, then leave nomads and have a good chance to survive.
if V picks panam, arasaka is crippled, and are not viable. V has no props within the merc world, and no new connections with people in that circle, like Blue eyes. And blue eyes says this opportunity was created because his people were able to loot Arasaka. In nomad ending, they were the ones to loot arasaka.
The Nomads get the glory, and the spoils, and the connections. V has access to that through them.
So it would be similar, a choice to die in 6 months on your own or go with aldecados for a chance to survive in Star path.
Makes sense lore-wise. Still, I'm not saying that V doing this or that doesn't match the lore (I prefer not to talk about lore cause writers can change it any way the wish, it's not real life); I'm saying that railroading things isn't a great epilogue design.
There can always be another option or branching that would fit the story just as well -- as long as the game designers want it. And right now, too many things (V not being able to follow/not follow what their LI wants, where V lives, what plans for cure V has etc.) unexpectedly depend on clicking on just one option at the rooftop (I'm saying unexpectedly because the only things I was thinking about were: does Johnny die (Devil)? Panam (Star)? Rogue (Sun)? Oh, surprise, Panam can't die cause it would ruin the Star ending).
Even Johnny says "choosing who of your friends gets to die", nothing else. Nah, the only V's friend that gets to die is Saul (is he a friend tho? Actually, making Saul a friend gets you a car, and not an ending).
[...]
I doubt people would be happy with that because the gripe is not really about player choice and consequences, its about the player not controlling the entire story. [...]
Some people expected an open world, with no limitations where they via their V(essel) can do everything they want, like a god. Every door can be opened, every car possessed, every person to be romanced, every appartement to be moved in.
Others want a life simulation, a date/romance simulation. But when the game simulates life, they are still unhappy with NPCs having their own "personalities" and goals/plans: why is Panam a straight female and my female V can't romance her? Why is Judy's path, based on her personality, leading her out of the City? Why can't I romance Takemura? Why is Arasaka depicted as somewhat evil? Why can't my V force the entire universe to give him that unique ending that I have a perfect imagination of in my head? So basically they want to be a god, too.
I didn't follow the hype around the game before it's release much, so has CDPR ever promised something like that?
[...]
Even Johnny says "choosing who of your friends gets to die", nothing else. Nah, the only V's friend that gets to die is Saul (is he a friend tho? Actually, making Saul a friend gets you a car, and not an ending).
Some people expected an open world, with no limitations where they via their V(essel) can do everything they want, like a god. Every door can be opened, every car possessed, every person to be romanced, every appartement to be moved in.
Others want a life simulation, a date/romance simulation. But when the game simulates life, they are still unhappy with NPC having their own "personalities" and goals/plans: why is Panam a straight female and my female V can't romance her? Why is Judy's path, based on her personality, leading her out of the City? Why can't I romance Takemura? Why is Arasaka depicted as somewhat evil? Why can't my V force the entire universe to give him that unique ending that I have a perfect imagination of in my head? So basically they want to be a god, too.
I didn't follow the hype around the game before it's release much, so has CDPR ever promised something like that?
Personally, I expected a role playing game, with choices and consequences. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I find it insulting to be told that what I really wanted was to have god mode or a dating sim. My favorite crpg is Fallout New Vegas, which has plenty of choice but a defined story, and no romance, as well as no "perfect" ending. I would have settled for less choice in CP2077, but I guess I was the fool for wanting rpg elements at all.
I also think it's kind of rich to be told that it's unrealistic to want a happy ending with a love interest in this game, when Panam and V get to ride into the sunset together in an unabashedly mushy way. The game even kills off Saul so that any future conflict with him is removed. Yes, Judy gets to go too, but the ending is clearly built for a happy ending with Panam. Telling people that they are unreasonable and want a godlike dating sim for wanting what Panam fans already get is...yeah.
Personally, I expected a role playing game, with choices and consequences. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I find it insulting to be told that what I really wanted was to have god mode or a dating sim. My favorite crpg is Fallout New Vegas, which has plenty of choice but a defined story, and no romance, as well as no "perfect" ending. I would have settled for less choice in CP2077, but I guess I was the fool for wanting rpg elements at all.
Imagine if the Caesar's Legion ending in NV spent the entire slideshow telling you how morally bad you are for wanting to side with the bad guys in a video game, ending with them crucifying the Courier
Personally, I expected a role playing game, with choices and consequences. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I find it insulting to be told that what I really wanted was to have god mode or a dating sim. My favorite crpg is Fallout New Vegas, which has plenty of choice but a defined story, and no romance, as well as no "perfect" ending. I would have settled for less choice in CP2077, but I guess I was the fool for wanting rpg elements at all.
I also think it's kind of rich to be told that it's unrealistic to want a happy ending with a love interest in this game, when Panam and V get to ride into the sunset together in an unabashedly mushy way. The game even kills off Saul so that any future conflict with him is removed. Yes, Judy gets to go too, but the ending is clearly built for a happy ending with Panam. Telling people that they are unreasonable and want a godlike dating sim for wanting what Panam fans already get is...yeah.
I got no problem with your perspective, I'm just trying to isolate what you mean.
What is the RPG element thats missing?
your choice has consequences, isn't this whole side discussion about not liking the consequence of who you choose to raid Arasaka with?
The last part you mentioned seems to suggest its not the Choice and consequences that bother you, but rather the lack of equality with LI fates.
This is fine, but its a different problem than wanting more choices, Basically you are saying, I disagree with the writers for writing that V has to separate with specific LIs for the last scenes in this game.
As a side note, I don't think Saul dies to make it easy for panam, I think its to make it harder for panam as leader. I also doubt this is the end of V's story. I'm pretty sure every LI will get their time to shine. Sun ending just has a temporary separation while V goes on a mission.
I personally, imo don't think every Love story in game should have the same beats, at the same time, in every situation. But I can see how not doing that makes certain players feel its unfair.
I choose sun ending, and Judy and Panam are against that, I hope there's a new female LI that doesn't hate NC, but if not, oh well.
Makes sense lore-wise. Still, I'm not saying that V doing this or that doesn't match the lore (I prefer not to talk about lore cause writers can change it any way the wish, it's not real life); I'm saying that railroading things isn't a great epilogue design.
There can always be another option or branching that would fit the story just as well -- as long as the game designers want it. And right now, too many things (V not being able to follow/not follow what their LI wants, where V lives, what plans for cure V has etc.) unexpectedly depend on clicking on just one option at the rooftop (I'm saying unexpectedly because the only things I was thinking about were: does Johnny die (Devil)? Panam (Star)? Rogue (Sun)? Oh, surprise, Panam can't die cause it would ruin the Star ending).
Even Johnny says "choosing who of your friends gets to die", nothing else. Nah, the only V's friend that gets to die is Saul (is he a friend tho? Actually, making Saul a friend gets you a car, and not an ending).
you are saying the writing should be more focused on V controlling what happens in the World, Rather than V having to work around the world based on its rulesets. I think that is up to the game creator. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. Different games have a different mix. I think cyberpunk was more focused on creating a world that is somewhat against the player, that the player has to work within.
btw like 3 aldecado's die, and rogue dies depending on the ending
I got no problem with your perspective, I'm just trying to isolate what you mean.
What is the RPG element thats missing?
your choice has consequences, isn't this whole side discussion about not liking the consequence of who you choose to raid Arasaka with?
The last part you mentioned seems to suggest its not the Choice and consequences that bother you, but rather the lack of equality with LI fates.
This is fine, but its a different problem than wanting more choices, Basically you are saying, I disagree with the writers for writing that V has to separate with specific LIs for the last scenes in this game.
As a side note, I don't think Saul dies to make it easy for panam, I think its to make it harder for panam as leader. I also doubt this is the end of V's story. I'm pretty sure every LI will get their time to shine. Sun ending just has a temporary separation while V goes on a mission.
I personally, imo don't think every Love story in game should have the same beats, at the same time, in every situation. But I can see how not doing that makes certain players feel its unfair.
I choose sun ending, and Judy and Panam are against that, I hope there's a new female LI that doesn't hate NC, but if not, oh well.
RPG element: our choices are to do or not do missions that affect our choice of endings. Once you've run those missions, you can choose any of the endings in the same playthrough. I wanted to do things like choose factions and actually feel consequences for choices throughout the game, not just the endings. I do feel like we were promised more choice and consequence back when the game was announced. Yes, I may be the dummy for not realizing that they changed the description of the official twitter account from "role playing game" to "action adventure game" a few months before launch.
My bitterness/saltiness about the LIs: It's definitely a different issue, I was referring to Balmung79 saying that what some people want is a dating sim; maybe I'm not the one they're talking about, but yeah, I wanted to cuddle with Judy in the final scene of the Star ending. I wanted to at least try to assuage River's worries in the Sun ending instead of acting like I had a death wish. And yeah, it would have been nice if we could have seen V get back to their LI in the Devil ending if they go back to Earth (although that one may be asking too much). I feel like it's unfair to be told that I want a "dating sim" for wanting a little bit of what Panam fans got.
Regarding Saul: I agree with you about killing him being bad for the clan, and that's one of the reasons I don't like the Star ending, but they very heavy handedly foreshadowed "issues" between Panam and Saul as co-leaders, and it felt like killing Saul off was written as a solution to this problem. It would be very interesting if we saw negative consequences to this in the DLC/sequel, but we'll see.
I also prefer the Sun ending currently, but I don't expect much for the River romance in future content. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they don't give him the Jacob Taylor from Mass Effect treatment, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Personally, I expected a role playing game, with choices and consequences. Maybe my expectations were too high, but I find it insulting to be told that what I really wanted was to have god mode or a dating sim. My favorite crpg is Fallout New Vegas, which has plenty of choice but a defined story, and no romance, as well as no "perfect" ending. I would have settled for less choice in CP2077, but I guess I was the fool for wanting rpg elements at all.
I also think it's kind of rich to be told that it's unrealistic to want a happy ending with a love interest in this game, when Panam and V get to ride into the sunset together in an unabashedly mushy way. The game even kills off Saul so that any future conflict with him is removed. Yes, Judy gets to go too, but the ending is clearly built for a happy ending with Panam. Telling people that they are unreasonable and want a godlike dating sim for wanting what Panam fans already get is...yeah.
I personally don't see the Star as a happy ending. A sugar coating onto of a cake made entirely of same rat poison plot cancer of every other ending isn't happy to me. I didn't expect every choice to necessarily lead to personal happiness and life but i expected that could be a choice that i could make which might lead to negative consequences elsewhere.
I expected character endings/epilogues that would be properly character choice related. Not here's a mission choice of how to fail to survive, followed by that mission choice then being used to pick a railroaded tangent for the character to be boxed into. Sun's tangent is just particularly glaringly in its jarring tangent.
Yes, I may be the dummy for not realizing that they changed the description of the official twitter account from "role playing game" to "action adventure game" a few months before launch.
Never let them use this, btw. This was an extremely late change made under the radar explicitly for the purpose of deflecting valid criticism about RPG elements.
