Is this game an rpg?

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The problem with Cyberpunk is that it allows everyone to experience everything in one playthrough which creates character inconsistencies, but if you replay the game by role playing a certain character archetype and consistently work towards certain goals (redemption and belonging, become a legend of the afterlife or reconciling with the corpo world - the three main narrative threads supported through dialogue and lifepaths) it encourages replayability greatly if one cares for Role Playing.

The fact that the game design allows all the characters to become a mixture of everything is sadly a modern game design trope which in my opinion, plain sucks, and it should have more strict consequences depending on certain paths the characters chose, but claiming they don't exist or they're shallow is just plain fallacious.
I can't say that I like this direction in games. I think the studios are just responding to players complaining that they didn't get all the content they paid for because they only play through one time. :)
 
turn based has nothing to do with RPGs, and I don't think kotor was turn based, pretty sure it was active combat with skill queuing.

KotOR was absolutely turn based. It was Neverwinter Nights with blasters. They didn't even change the character class names in the code: Consular was Wizard, Sentinel was Sorcerer, Scoundrel was Rogue, etc...
 
KotOR was absolutely turn based. It was Neverwinter Nights with blasters. They didn't even change the character class names in the code: Consular was Wizard, Sentinel was Sorcerer, Scoundrel was Rogue, etc...
I had to look this up, since its been awhile, but it looks like its not what I consider turn based, like dos2. I would consider it closer to real time with pause, since it will keep playing out, and you can throw in skills/items in real time. It looks like there is an option that pauses combat at beginning and let's queue 4 rounds of combat, I don't think I played with that option. but its been awhile.

I have seen post saying its not real time with pause, but I'm not sure the difference if it autoplays out
 
Its irrelevant if i played or not. Reality and truth are not depending on me playing.
But for your knowledge I did play 4 times(only 3 times i finished) VTM B.

Vtm B moral choices affect greatly the gameplay. By behaving unethically your humanity gets lower and if it gets too low you mostly get into freenzy and atack people if blood low. This at the wrong time can lead to masquerade violations.
By exibiting vampire power in front of people you lose masquerade points.
If you lose 5 masquerade points the game ends.

Humanity points can be gain by doing acts of kindness.

The abilities and attributes have bigger influence in successfully completing certain actions.

The ability to move silently and avoid being detected is heavily influenced by the character's Dexterity and Stealth ratings.

The same goes for the other abilities and attributes.

How the player interacts with the game world varies depending upon which clan you chose. Differences range from different dialogue options becoming available to certain quests becoming available or unavailable. The most notable gameplay differences are experienced by those who play as Malkavian (due to their insanity, dialogue options are often
Ilogical nonsense, making it difficult to conduct conversations and negotiations; Malkavians also encounter numerous bizarre moments during gameplay, such as television sets and stop signs speaking to them) and Nosferatu (who, in order to avoid Masquerade violations, are prohibited from speaking to humans(mostly have to go through sewers) and who do not have access to any gameplay options involving seduction).
[...]
In 1 act of Bloodlines: Santa Monica you have only quest two (maybe three) that you can finish in different ways. Rest are combat focused or depending on skill check, linear (quest in hotel plays same way for every character)
One is quest with astrolite. 2nd quest is part of main quest when via dialoge you can decide how conflict between Janette/Therese will end. Others acts are no different with quests, there' s no multilayered quests, you will decide about endnig in last act. There's even one quest that can be done only via stealth, otherwise you will fail game.
Malakvian plays exactly same like other clans, because most quests are linear and often focused on combat.
What is different are Malakvian way of speaking dialogues but results/most of answers are similar to any other clan Tremere, Gangrel, Brujah. Somebody will notice" oh youre Malkavian" then rest of dialogue is often same like for any other clan, but Malkavian just gives different version of questions, but with same "sense" (not really illogical,lol). That's it.
 
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Subjective, objectively it is more complex than Far Cry whether you like it or not, just by the simple fact that you can guide the narrative and create character archetypes by the way of lifepaths, dialogue options and gameplay.



Even though it was a half assed mechanic with barely any impact on the gameplay besides a cutscene with a ''blood hunt'' Cyberpunk could have used a humanity meter ending up with MaxTac hunting V down as a cyberpsycho, the game has all the ingredients to support it.

Now the fact that it doesn't have it doesn't really substract anything from the RPG values this game has going for it.



Yeah this is all present in Cyberpunk.

The problem with Cyberpunk is that it allows everyone to experience everything in one playthrough which creates character inconsistencies, but if you replay the game by role playing a certain character archetype and consistently work towards certain goals (redemption and belonging, become a legend of the afterlife or reconciling with the corpo world - the three main narrative threads supported through dialogue and lifepaths) it encourages replayability greatly if one cares for Role Playing.

The fact that the game design allows all the characters to become a mixture of everything is sadly a modern game design trope which in my opinion, plain sucks, and it should have more strict consequences depending on certain paths the characters chose, but claiming they don't exist or they're shallow is just plain fallacious.

"Subjective, objectively it is more complex than Far Cry whether you like it or not, just by the simple fact that you can guide the narrative and create character archetypes by the way of lifepaths, dialogue options and gameplay"


I already acknoledged there is an objective difference in having some dialogue because of your lifepaths.
The point you keep ignoring is that this is so underdevevelopt is does not make a big difference. Its a joke.
These lifepaths and dialogue options influence on game are a joke when compare with serious crpgs.
Everbody knows this and has complained on this forum and on YouTube.


You can roleplay as much through gameplay as in Far Cry 5.


You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending.


" Even though it was a half assed mechanic with barely any impact on the gameplay besides a cutscene with a ''blood hunt'' Cyberpunk could have used a humanity meter ending up with MaxTac hunting V down as a cyberpsycho, the game has all the ingredients to support it."


There are two mechanics not one.
Humanity and masquarade points.
How can u say there is no impact when the game can end and not because the story has come to an end but because how you role played?
I remember playing as a small kid and being scared the game will end.
Role Playing as a ripper and killing with no impunity has great consequence on the game.
It ends.
Cyberpunk does not even dream of having such role playing mechanic.
In Night city does not matter if you kill everyone on sight(psychopat) or spare lives when possible. It does not influence the game in major way.
Also in VTM attributes and stats matter more then skill of the player in progressing through the game which is a Hallmark of RPGs. While în cyberpunk being an action game matters more skill of the player, reflexis then stats.

"The problem with Cyberpunk is that it allows everyone to experience everything in one playthrough which creates character inconsistencies, but if you replay the game by role playing a certain character archetype and consistently work towards certain goals (redemption and belonging, become a legend of the afterlife or reconciling with the corpo world - the three main narrative threads supported through dialogue and lifepaths) it encourages replayability greatly if one cares for Role Playing."


Sir forcing yourself through gameplay to make a game somewhat an RPG is nonsensical. You can do this in Far Cry 5 too. By this logic your can do this is any games you have perks and multiple ways of killing enemies. That would make a lot of games rpg according to your logic.
The game simply has some half ass rpg mechanics on top.
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In 1 act of Bloodlines: Santa Monica you have only quest two (maybe three) that you can finish in different ways. Rest are combat focused or depending on skill check, linear (quest in hotel plays same way for every character)
One is quest with astrolite. 2nd quest is part of main quest when via dialoge you can decide how conflict between Janette/Therese will end. Others acts are no different with quests, there' s no multilayered quests, you will decide about endnig in last act. There's even one quest that can be done only via stealth, otherwise you will fail game.
Malakvian plays exactly same like other clans, because most quests are linear and often focused on combat.
What is different are Malakvian way of speaking dialogues but results/most of answers are similar to any other clan Tremere, Gangrel, Brujah. Somebody will notice" oh youre Malkavian" then rest of dialogue is often same like for any other clan, but Malkavian just gives different version of questions, but with same "sense" (not really illogical,lol). That's it.
They have unique and funny interactions and insight into the plot, most of which is further into the game and usually only apparent on subsequent play throughs when you can decipher the meaning behind the gibberish lines.
There is a big difference though between this clan and the rest.


They know the future and you can figure it out from the jiberish. This is a big difference.
The game is very replayable.
The more your play the more you know how awsome rpg it is.
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Sir in cyberpunk there îs no big difference bettwen playing as a street kid, a corpo or a nomad.
The prologue it doesn’t take a lot of time to do and all three starts get you to an apartment with a mission to visit the ripperdoc for some new optics. Beyond that point, there are some different dialogue options available at certain points in the game, depending on V’s background, but they haven’t resulted in a major difference in gameplay. Dont affect gameplay as Nosferatu does in VTM.
Knowing the future is a big change also with Malkevians.
This changes are in your face all through out the game.
In cyberpunk 2077 you feel like your not playing something differently ergo replayability and roleplayability are severely damaged.
This is because as the developer has called their own game this is an open world action adventure.

Also in VTM attributes and stats matter more then skill of the player in progressing through the game which is a Hallmark of RPGs. While în cyberpunk being an action game matters more skill of the player, reflexis then stats.

Answer this question:

Is Far cry 5 an RPG?
 
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You keep insisting that a % bonus for leveling up is "wrong"/"weak" rpg mechanic while I will argue that is the most common classical tabletop rpg mechanic i.e the dungeon/game master sets a difficulty level and you roll attribute+skill+dice against difficulty.That % of damage,actually is your skill (at same difficulty level your task becomes easier). The mechanic if gaining new abilities (like in deus ex 3 & 4) is more a videogame mechanic to add "cinematic" experience. You can check for example the description of the Interlock System used by Rtalsorian in CP2020 (there is a copy of the cp2020 book as digital goodie)and CP RED,also D&D systems work pretty much the same in all revisions that I played.
I didn't play Far Cry series,but if only way of play a "stealth" character is by weapon selection no is not an rpg. Nevertheless, you should take into account that FPS games borrowed RPG elements in the last decade just to put some air on the genre ...At the end "Borderlands" loot-shoot loop,is borrowed from "Diablo" which is also a fast paced cRPG.
 
I agree, but I think having exclusive options is mostly just an illusion. I don't think the game would be more RPG if they made you have to choose between judy/panam's/johnny's side quests, or made the 3 MS separate branches mutually exclusive. Or made certain gigs unlock more other gigs. Or made you have to choose a specialty for gigs.

It depends on what you mean by exclusive options. Unlocking content isn't a good way to provide an option. A superior way is to offer content A for taking one route and content B for taking another. In the former you're choosing between accessing content or losing it. In the latter you're experiencing content in one path and different content in another. Do you see the difference?

In most cases where CP offers a concrete decision it's doing the former. In other places it does the latter. If you asked me which of the "concrete" choice/consequence oriented content I prefer then examples of the second concept would be on the list. The Pickup, Clouds, Delamain, Racing with Claire, VDB's vs Netwatch, to name a few.

Regardless, it's fair to say none of this makes the game more or less of an RPG. The point of choices here is to allow the player to express a character differently. CP does this all over the place, in my opinion. Despite criticisms targeted at how it handles specific content.

The fact is you have more choice to shape your character by not having exclusive options, rather than less. However, apparently many players can't handle all that choice to shape their characters, and somehow believe that they have more choice, when they effectively have less. Choices don't matter unless they have a meter attached to them.

That depends on the way you look at it too. In CP many choices/consequences are abstracted out of the game. They don't change the events within a quest. They subtly change the presentation of the events. If I am reading this right you're saying this concept offers more choices. The player is deciding, outside the game, what A or B means to them. The imagination does provide more possibilities.

However, a consideration there is the number of ways you can abstract the meaning of the choice outside of the game before losing interest with the content and/or running out of logical interpretations. There are only so many ways any given person can abstract out and interpret A or B. At a certain point they're going to feel like they're experiencing the same content.

One player might build a character, experience content and interpret the meaning of A or B a certain way. When they start another game with a different character they adjust their interpretation of the meaning around this new character. Another player might interpret one meaning and, well, that's it. When they setup another playthrough and see it again they reach the same interpretation. Incidentally, it's labeled as "no choice".

The other consideration goes back to changing events vs changing their presentation. The former is generally going to be more impactful to the gameplay itself. The latter is generally going to provide a subtle shift in the gameplay itself. The rest occurs in the player's head. Certain players, for whatever reason, prefer the first option.

A non-intuitive consequence of these last two paragraphs is it's possible the first time a player experiences A and/or B they conjure up multiple interpretations at the same time. They then pick from these options and decide which best describes it to them. You're not exactly gaining "more" by repeating this content and picking from another one of those interpretations on the second attempt. The mental exercise itself has been fully explored the first time around.

Basically catch-22, I agree with everything here but it seems to create a dissonance in people's minds because all the branches being open and accessible at all times gives the impression that there is no choice at all.

It's the videogame mentality clearly at play here, if it's available it needs to be done which as a consequences removes the veneer of choice by giving the player full control over the narrative and gameplay options at all times - but also burdens the player with the notion that they need to restrict themselves from accessing content clearly open to be experienced.

Perhaps I am a rare breed. I've never looked at choices/consequences in an RPG this way. If anything I prefer it when I can't experience everything the first time around. Provided the game is good and those choices are presented well. It adds replay value.

For the record, I don't think the development side views it the same way. If you consider both the abstract and concrete choice/consequence structure described above it's easy to see why. The first one involves subtle changes to the game and quality writing (and nowadays, voice-overs). The interpretation of the choice plays out in the players head. Likewise, when it's a simple content unlock it's one piece of content. When you get A for selecting one path and B for another both A and B have to exist.

If it's not clear, I am saying these other concepts require less work. I'll leave the implications there ambiguous. :)

Also in VTM attributes and stats matter more then skill of the player in progressing through the game which is a Hallmark of RPGs. While în cyberpunk being an action game matters more skill of the player, reflexis then stats.

This is one area where I'd question the "RPGness" of CP, heh. If character progression isn't limiting what a character can or cannot do it's not serving it's "RPG" purposes. It's merely adding variety.

You keep insisting that a % bonus for leveling up is "wrong"/"weak" rpg mechanic while I will argue that is the most common classical tabletop rpg mechanic i.e the dungeon/game master sets a difficulty level and you roll attribute+skill+dice against difficulty.That % of damage,actually is your skill (at same difficulty level your task becomes easier).

In an attribute+skill+dice roll system under a turn-based concept there are two elements in play. The first is the strengths and weaknesses built into the character. The second is a pseudo-random number generator. The missing piece is player ability. Player ability in those games only governs the sequence of the actions performed by the character or characters.

In an ARPG you have player input/timing and progression based character ability. Here there are also two elements in play. The first is the player input/timing, or player ability. The second is the character ability. Notice anything here? Yeah, that first one goes outside the character, or the established "role" of it.

Many ARPG's go "wrong" because the first component dominates the results. The abilities of the character, or the "role", take a back seat. It would be like metagaming in tabletop. Very few ARPG's establish the correct balance here where the character strengths and weaknesses dominate the results and the player ability takes the back seat position.

This last one applies to CP for a number of reasons. It also applies to TW3, ironically.
 
This needs to be said way too often: personal skirmishes have no place in public threads. Please be respectful of others.
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I can agree that aRPG emphasizes player reflexes over "randomness" in turn based,but was the same in "Eye of the beholder" actually (there was also people complaining about that).Basically, I think is not possible to translate faithfully a RPG to computers(theres is no AI in the world smart enough to direct the game) and is a matter of taste if you like how mechanics are implemented .Its true that i miss in cp a "fail"( so my weapon malfunctions and explodes in my face,forcing you to use technical to periodically maintain it),roll dicing can create those funny situations but I suspect many players will hate that( once in d&d i died going to hunt a rabbit for dinner) .Also you can "live" roleplay,where normally there are no "checks" at all for combat/skills and outcomes are determined by masters(aidungeon works similar),but could create unfair or "wtf" discussions.
PS: I should add that on my 1st playthrough i went with normal,because I'm not that good at FPS,in my 2nd playthrough I'm in very hard and I don't think i boosted my reflexes that much and I think that the combination of armor,mods,cyberware,weapon,attributes and perks is what is making me progress...my reflexes mostly help in going to cover and hit x for insta heal... now I go through tyger clawsmuch easier than 10 hours ago just by character progression
 
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You say this...

I already acknoledged there is an objective difference in having some dialogue because of your lifepaths.

And then you end up with this statement...

You can roleplay as much through gameplay as in Far Cry 5.

Can you avoid combat all together in Far Cry?

Either through dialogue choices or gameplay mechanics?

The point you keep ignoring is that this is so underdevevelopt is does not make a big difference. Its a joke.
These lifepaths and dialogue options influence on game are a joke when compare with serious crpgs.
Everbody knows this and has complained on this forum and on YouTube.

It's because Cyberpunk 2077, like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines or Deus Ex, is not a ''serious'' CRPGs that people keep comparing it to.

This is not Fallout: New Vegas, Divinity Original Sin or Tides of Numenera.

And at no point was this advertised as such.

You create your character, customize the appearance. You can upgrade weapons, buy cars.
You can go through missions shooting enemies, you can use stealth, you can use environments and wild animals. You can decide who to kill and who not to kill.
You can do side quests or not.
For completing missions the protagonist gets experience and perks - and not just +5% damage, but new abilities.
You have to complete three storylines to unlock the ending. At the end of the game you choose the ending.

There are no non lethal options in Far Cry 5 as far as I know, you're always a combatant, the only options you have is how you approach an encounter.

Yes Far Cry 5 has light RPG mechanics like pretty much all of Ubisoft's lineup of games, including The Crew which is a driving game.

They're not the defining focus of the game, it's the sandbox experience that's the focus, which Cyberpunk is not, the focus of cyberpunk is the characters and the narrative, both of which are influenced by player choices that ultimately define the character that they play, both narratively and gameplay wise.



There are two mechanics not one.
Humanity and masquarade points.
How can u say there is no impact when the game can end and not because the story has come to an end but because how you role played?
I remember playing as a small kid and being scared the game will end.
Role Playing as a ripper and killing with no impunity has great consequence on the game.
It ends.

It's actually one system, the humanity is ultimately used as a loss of control that leads up to losing the masquerade.

But like I mentioned, it's really not deep at all.

Cyberpunk does not even dream of having such role playing mechanic.
In Night city does not matter if you kill everyone on sight(psychopat) or spare lives when possible. It does not influence the game in major way.

It's not really that great of a mechanic, but I agree, Cyberpunk has all the ingredients for such a feature, it's a shame that it doesn't exist.

Also in VTM attributes and stats matter more then skill of the player in progressing through the game which is a Hallmark of RPGs.

Likewise in Cyberpunk if you go for specific builds.

You can play Cyberpunk as a pure FPS or any of the other build types that rely on stealth and hacking without firing a single shot.

While în cyberpunk being an action game matters more skill of the player, reflexis then stats.

Unless you play as a netrunner or ghost, or use any of the smart weapons...

Sir forcing yourself through gameplay to make a game somewhat an RPG is nonsensical. You can do this in Far Cry 5 too. By this logic your can do this is any games you have perks and multiple ways of killing enemies. That would make a lot of games rpg according to your logic.
The game simply has some half ass rpg mechanics on top.

I'm not forcing myself to do anything, I'm roleplaying one of the three character archetypes that makes for a consistent character experience that's varied from the other two. You can also play a mixture of all three like a Corpo that had enough and becomes a Nomad etc.

This is roleplaying.
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Perhaps I am a rare breed. I've never looked at choices/consequences in an RPG this way. If anything I prefer it when I can't experience everything the first time around. Provided the game is good and those choices are presented well. It adds replay value.

It's an economy based choice, as the games are getting more and more expensive to make they need to have concrete reasons to invest in the paths that most players won't get to experience.

A majority of the players will run through the game once and never again.

While I agree, I would like what you're describing as well, I'm slowly realizing that I'm not part of the focus groups that are used to generate statistics that ultimately lead to investment decisions.

For the record, I don't think the development side views it the same way. If you consider both the abstract and concrete choice/consequence structure described above it's easy to see why. The first one involves subtle changes to the game and quality writing (and nowadays, voice-overs). The interpretation of the choice plays out in the players head. Likewise, when it's a simple content unlock it's one piece of content. When you get A for selecting one path and B for another both A and B have to exist.

I fully agree with you, but sadly you and I do not represent the majority of the playerbase.

If it's not clear, I am saying these other concepts require less work. I'll leave the implications there ambiguous. :)

 
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You say this...



And then you end up with this statement...



Can you avoid combat all together in Far Cry?

Either through dialogue choices or gameplay mechanics?



It's because Cyberpunk 2077, like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines or Deus Ex, is not a ''serious'' CRPGs that people keep comparing it to.

This is not Fallout: New Vegas, Divinity Original Sin or Tides of Numenera.

And at no point was this advertised as such.



There are no non lethal options in Far Cry 5 as far as I know, you're always a combatant, the only options you have is how you approach an encounter.

Yes Far Cry 5 has light RPG mechanics like pretty much all of Ubisoft's lineup of games, including The Crew which is a driving game.

They're not the defining focus of the game, it's the sandbox experience that's the focus, which Cyberpunk is not, the focus of cyberpunk is the characters and the narrative, both of which are influenced by player choices that ultimately define the character that they play, both narratively and gameplay wise.





It's actually one system, the humanity is ultimately used as a loss of control that leads up to losing the masquerade.

But like I mentioned, it's really not deep at all.



It's not really that great of a mechanic, but I agree, Cyberpunk has all the ingredients for such a feature, it's a shame that it doesn't exist.



Likewise in Cyberpunk if you go for specific builds.

You can play Cyberpunk as a pure FPS or any of the other build types that rely on stealth and hacking without firing a single shot.



Unless you play as a netrunner or ghost, or use any of the smart weapons...



I'm not forcing myself to do anything, I'm roleplaying one of the three character archetypes that makes for a consistent character experience that's varied from the other two. You can also play a mixture of all three like a Corpo that had enough and becomes a Nomad etc.

This is roleplaying.
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It's an economy based choice, as the games are getting more and more expensive to make they need to have concrete reasons to invest in the paths that most players won't get to experience.

A majority of the players will run through the game once and never again.

While I agree, I would like what you're describing as well, I'm slowly realizing that I'm not part of the focus groups that are used to generate statistics that ultimately lead to investment decisions.



I fully agree with you, but sadly you and I do not represent the majority of the playerbase.






"You say:
And then you end up with this statement..."


I meant the quests, combat and everything else without dialogue from lifepaths which you find in Far Cry 5 too.
Maybe was not clear. Language barrier. English is my second language.

"Can you avoid combat all together in Far Cry?
Either through dialogue choices or gameplay mechanics?
It's because Cyberpunk 2077, like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines or Deus Ex, is not a ''serious'' CRPGs that people keep comparing it to.
This is not Fallout: New Vegas, Divinity Original Sin or Tides of Numenera.
And at no point was this advertised as such.
There are no non lethal options in Far Cry 5 as far as I know, you're always a combatant, the only options you have is how you approach an encounter.
Yes Far Cry 5 has light RPG mechanics like pretty much all of Ubisoft's lineup of games, including The Crew which is a driving game.
They're not the defining focus of the game, it's the sandbox experience that's the focus, which Cyberpunk is not, the focus of cyberpunk is the characters and the narrative, both of which are influenced by player choices that ultimately define the character that they play, both narratively and gameplay wise."


The point its not about existence. I have said this many times.
Its about the complexity and prevalence.
Its very weak implemented. Half ass job.
That's why it does not separate much from Far Cry 5 being more close to it then to cRPGs like VTM, Gothic 2, KOTOR, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age Origins, Far Cry New Vegas.


"It's actually one system, the humanity is ultimately used as a loss of control that leads up to losing the masquerade.
But like I mentioned, it's really not deep at all.
It's not really that great of a mechanic, but I agree, Cyberpunk has all the ingredients for such a feature, it's a shame that it doesn't exist."


Loosing humanity points does not necessarily means losing masquerade points.
You can still be doing unnecessarily evil and not get masquerade violations.
I was terrified and it stressed me, was all time in my brain all through our my play trough to not get 5 strikes. Together with the change in gameplay from Nosferaturs and Malkevian one cannot say its shallow in influencing gameplay.
How stopping the game without story ending its not important.
Having a unique way of ending a game without finishing the story its hallmark of cRPGS.

In Cyberpunk 2077 i don't care at all if kill all or not, if I do anything. Its so boring.


"Unless you play as a netrunner or ghost, or use any of the smart weapons...
I'm not forcing myself to do anything, I'm roleplaying one of the three character archetypes that makes for a consistent character experience that's varied from the other two. You can also play a mixture of all three like a Corpo that had enough and becomes a Nomad etc.
This is roleplaying."


Again its not about existence. Its about being weak role playing which can be done in most games with perks and various methods of killing the enemy.
This is the case for Cyberpunk 2077. For the most part perks influence in Cyberpunk 2077 are a joke. One feel so lees compelled to invest in perks, specialize when for the most part skill and reflexis are more important.

You are forcing the role play on the game not the other way around. You do this because the game its mostly action adventure. In a serious cRPG nobody forces themselves to roleplay.
There are certain builds too in Far Cry 5 that make certain perks and abilities vital but for most part its not important. You can force yourself too into roleplaying if one desperately wants to some RPG from Far Cry 5.

In VTM or Gothic 2 for example stats play a vital role overall no matter the class or build. Specialization is very important making roleplay and replayability more complex and good.
 
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You know what?

Fair enough, I myself have found just as much value in Cyberpunk 2077 as in Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines and Deus Ex, in fact it's what I was looking for when I bought it.

To me it does not resemble Far Cry at all, I mean sure they both have guns and cars but beyond face value they both possess different strengths and appeal to different crowds, Far Cry just isn't for me.

If you think this is like Far Cry, who am I to argue, but to me it seems like your entire argument is in bad faith, being like Far Cry or not doesn't matter, it seems to me that your ultimate point is a derogatory one towards the game and I'm not here to disprove someone's opinion at all.

I've provided my arguments as you did yours and it boils down that the game did not meet your personal expectations and as such it's just a poor man's Far Cry.

Cool...
 
I think that one of the issues is that people assumes that a class(archetype)/race/alignment + party is compulsory for a RPG,that system works well with party based gameplay and in tabletop rpg provides the opportunity to "shy" people to participate (roleplay) if the adventures balance encounters/tasks.This was carried over computers(with varying success if party companions are ai controlled) so you end up with your classical roster of 1 or 2 combat specialist(short range or long range or a mix) a healer (monk,trauma team techmed) and a wizard(mage/shaman/netrunner). Vampire actually is class-lite system(clan is akin of race so it provides bit of exclusivity at the cost of some drawback,but you share skills/attributes between clans), in the original tabletop actually roll dicing was de-emphasized(the system was Storyteller and the game director was called also the Storyteller)
 
Hello, I had many discussions about it with many people and I wanted to know your opinion. I understand that the industry today tends more towards hybrids than pure genre games.
Personally, I consider that it has rpg characteristics but is more focused on an action / looter sandbox.
It's more like the most expensive movie I own...more cut scenes than playing time and with driving sucking so much makes it's almost unplayable!
 

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That's why it does not separate much from Far Cry 5 being more close to it then to cRPGs like VTM, Gothic 2, KOTOR, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age Origins, Far Cry New Vegas.
Three questions:
1) Do you think it's coincidence that all those games you mentioned except D:OS were released between 18 and 11 years ago and D:OS had to be funded through Kickstarter?
2) Do you think there's inverse correlation between depth and complexity of an RPG and their sales?
3) Do you think a AAA studio like CDPR can afford to sell as many copies of Cyberpunk as those games did?
 
It's more like the most expensive movie I own...more cut scenes than playing time and with driving sucking so much makes it's almost unplayable!
, but you are suffering a bad playing experience as a FPS/loot-shoot/action adventure or more as RPG - between the long-subjective- cutscenes?
For driving mechanics, there is another thread somewhere (and for police AI,enemy AI, "quality of life",immersion) but as somebody that played GTA I/II,III,Vice City and San Andreas on-release I think that GTA basically imprinted in people minds that taking a 90 degree turn at 100 mph (I'm more used to think in kmh, but I guess you get the idea) in an urban area is something that somebody can do easily.
In a pure RPG, actually they should have forced to put a driving skill that levels with using it (i.e. you walking/jumping/crawling shouldn't allow you to spend xp on improving your driving skills) but is just gameplay concessions at the end; the feeling is more subjective I found that sticking to "realistic" driving rules driving is not that bad-but is a completely personal opinion-.
 
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