8.3 Patch notes

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A bit confused about Eist in devotion. So in theory lets say you play Blaze of glory and your hand at the moment is Blood Eagle, Birna, Raider, Raider, Invader,Invader, You managed to get the 2 bloodthirst for some reason. Not impossible. You play Blood Eagle and pull Eist and discard an Invader. Thats 3 damage plus 3 power from Eist plus 7 power (optimising obviously). You also play Djuta with Blaze of glory. So another 12 damage but because it entered your graveyard it summon on a row so another 12 power on the board. Next turn you play Birna and discard the 2 raiders. Because its devotion they enter your graveyard and get back on the board. So that's another 6 power plus another 6 + 6 with a potential extra 4 damage. So if I understand correctly and add properly thats 37 point play on first turn followed by a 22 point on second turn. Its very optimised I know but just in theory to see if I got it right. And obviously if you done your thinning and mulligans properly you would have drawn something decent as well. 59 point play in 2 turns? Did I get it right?
 
No, because it has counter 2 and thus will not revive more often than twice.
You can use it with Blaze of Glory on devotion, however you will then use up all its counters immediately.
Regardless the value is still sky high.
Ah ok. So devotion doesnt negate the counter. You still have 2
 
yeah, healthy card that breaks the whole idea of deckbuilding, allowing you to draw the card you want twice per match without any conditions. because of oneiromancy Viy and Cerys are twice as bad as they could be, same with other powerful cards. and devotion? seriously? to count decks with devotion I've met I won't even need one hand - both ranked and unranked.
heatwave is not broken by itself - it's just extremely boring and has no conditions to use. it also support the low unit decks - another annoying breed.
devs usually try to balance cards that are played too often - but not with these cases? so great and fair

Oneiromancy was a much needed and much demanded tutor honestly. I remember the period before this was introduced during MM expansion and a large chunk of the community deplored the RNG and wanted tutors. Oneiro is fine as it is. It breaks devotion, it is expensive having a very high provision and it can help you get what you need twice.

Heatwave is also fine the way it is. It also breaks devotion and it is not the kind of card that you win automatically with it, even if you auto-include it in many decks. Most of the time it is also the only card that can answer greedy strategies.
 
What I consider to be interesting is with decks I will try out after the expansion (also added some evaluation regarding the strength of the new cards)

MO:

Vampire: Currently I have a Ciri Nova vampire deck. Adding Detlaff and Unseen Elder means getting rid of Ciri Nova. To my mind a long round 3 with Orianna is still the key sucess of vampires

Card evaluation:

Detlaff can be a strong bleeding enabler for Orianna due to Blood Moon. Nevertheless his deathblow means less bleeds for Orianna but more vampires for Orianna´s deploy. From a value perspective he is okish. (10 provision for 6 blody + 6 bleeding + conditional 1 damage + conditional 2 spawn).

Unseen Elder: From my perspective one of the new cards which bad price-value. His deploy is 5 body + 4 bleeding. He can be easily removed with 5 body. His passive ability (2 bleeding to Non bleeder) can be a big support for Orianna. His passive devotion ability I do not completely understand now. Does it mean when a unit has 2 bleeding, he bleeds one in my turn and then 1 on his turn and then the bleeding status is 0 or does it still have 1 bleeding? Probably the status is 0. Then his devotion might have significant negative effects on Orianna.

Alp: Additionally + 2 bleeding and probably one target more. Much more interesting to include.

Fleder: Of course much better synergizing then the old Fledder. To my mind Garkain is probably the better option (yes, 2 body more but also 1 provision more).

Protofleder: The old one was a 9 provision card with floor of 7 and ceiling of 10. By no means totally overpriced but part of my deck. The new one encourages to spend all bleeding to one cards to get the most of the card which of course is not fitting to Orianna´s bleeding strategy

=> With the new vampire package dominance gets less important (say good bye to Ozrell + tall unit, Bee phantom and beast)
=> There are further bleeding benefitters. Before the patch it was Orianna + Garkin + Gael. Now Detlaff, Fleder and Protofledder are added as bleeding benefitters. This makes the deck more consistent
=> Orianna was to my mind always the winning card of vampire decks. Some new cards seem to encourage other strategies than bleeding as many units as possible which might be a challenge for this deck.

Will continue with other archetypes when I find some free time.
 
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Oneiromancy was a much needed and much demanded tutor honestly. I remember the period before this was introduced during MM expansion and a large chunk of the community deplored the RNG and wanted tutors. Oneiro is fine as it is. It breaks devotion, it is expensive having a very high provision and it can help you get what you need twice.

Heatwave is also fine the way it is. It also breaks devotion and it is not the kind of card that you win automatically with it, even if you auto-include it in many decks. Most of the time it is also the only card that can answer greedy strategies.
So, instead of learning how to build decks that work even if you don't get your strongest cards, players demanded tutors? Why not build your hand each round card by card? That would totally eliminate the hated RNG and make the game so wonderfully stale, predictable and boring. AI opponents are currently more flexible and interesting to play against than those tutors-loving players. The latter deserve to be called bots a lot more, actually. They download the same decks and play them again and again and again.
 
Refreshing cards, amazing card arts and overall solid balance changes.

I'm happy with the new Lockdown (pretty much what a few of us suggested earlier), although the Provision level seems a bit low this way. 15 provs should be fair with this reworked Leader, 13 seems a bit punishing for an effect which can be played around by several decks.
Viper Mentors at Adr 2 are still a bit too powerful for my taste, but the Kolgrim nerf is pretty huge - that might balance it out on the long run.

Very happy about the Vampire support, I'm really looking forward to that one.

ME: I thought the powercreep on the WotW cards was excessive.
CDPR: Hold my beer.
Powercreep is unavoidable, a necessary thing in CCGs. The 'new' needs to be strong and shiny, it needs to have an impact in order to shake up the meta. The important part is to revise and buff the old cards at least once or twice a year to keep them more or less on the same level (pretty much what CDPR started to do recently).

Oneiromancy was a much needed and much demanded tutor honestly. I remember the period before this was introduced during MM expansion and a large chunk of the community deplored the RNG and wanted tutors. Oneiro is fine as it is. It breaks devotion, it is expensive having a very high provision and it can help you get what you need twice.

Heatwave is also fine the way it is. It also breaks devotion and it is not the kind of card that you win automatically with it, even if you auto-include it in many decks. Most of the time it is also the only card that can answer greedy strategies.
Pretty much this. I can still hear the echoes (pun intended) of player complaints about not being able to pull your best cards, plays are too luck dependant, etc etc.
I still think though that Amphibious Assault is a bit too powerful. I'd reduce the maximum provision level of targetable units to 8. It would still be equally powerful on low prov units, but at least you wouldn't be able to pull some key units and engines.
 
Monsters
Fleder:
Ability changed to:

Whenever an enemy unit received Bleeding, gain Vitality with the same duration.

Protofleder: Ability changed to:

Deploy: Give an enemy unit Bleeding (3), then boost self by the amount of Bleeding on that unit.
ceremonial dagger is good now? :confused:
 
So, instead of learning how to build decks that work even if you don't get your strongest cards, players demanded tutors? Why not build your hand each round card by card? That would totally eliminate the hated RNG and make the game so wonderfully stale, predictable and boring. AI opponents are currently more flexible and interesting to play against than those tutors-loving players. The latter deserve to be called bots a lot more, actually. They download the same decks and play them again and again and again.

It is not about learning how to build decks, but how to avoid losing a consistent amount of games due to RNG. Even with Oneiro, you still have a decent amount of chances to get awkward hands/mulligans. Without it, it would be even more oppressive. And yes, players demanded reliable tutors. That is why, aside from Oneiro, pretty much all factions have tutor cards. Some of them more flexible, other more restrictive.

So definitely not. Oneiro and Heatwave are fine as they are right now and there is absolutely no need to change them.
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ceremonial dagger is good now? :confused:

It with Protofledder yeah. Didn't think of this. 5 bleeding from Dagger + 3 from Protofleder, gets you +8 boost. Not too shabby. Definitely better than wasting 3 leader abilities on the same unit + 3 from Protofleder. Leader ability is better in conjunction with Orianna.
 
It with Protofledder yeah. Didn't think of this. 5 bleeding from Dagger + 3 from Protofleder, gets you +8 boost. Not too shabby. Definitely better than wasting 3 leader abilities on the same unit + 3 from Protofleder. Leader ability is better in conjunction with Orianna.
just play fleder first, next turn use stratagem on the opponents unit to gain 5 vitality plus the 8 boost from protofleder. it will probably waste a good portion of the bleeding especially if its a throw away unit but it's still 21 points +damage in 2 cards if not purified or killed. I guess the big drawback is its not immediate points bc of vitality
 
It is not about learning how to build decks, but how to avoid losing a consistent amount of games due to RNG. Even with Oneiro, you still have a decent amount of chances to get awkward hands/mulligans. Without it, it would be even more oppressive. And yes, players demanded reliable tutors. That is why, aside from Oneiro, pretty much all factions have tutor cards. Some of them more flexible, other more restrictive.

So definitely not. Oneiro and Heatwave are fine as they are right now and there is absolutely no need to change them.
Yes, I see this is a popular opinion. Well, everyone should have fun the way they see fit.
Fine by me - the more players like this, the less I have to press the "GG" button. I'll keep not using those cards trying to make at least my own games a bit less predictable and watch the majority of players' skills and style decline month by month.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Lets take a big breath, and go through these individually...

- the changes to vampires give me mixed feelings: on one hand, i like that with 2 new powerful golds you can probably make a full vampire deck and not have to include units like Yghern/Ozzrel/Goliath (personally i never liked tall units and never used those).
On the other hand, they are getting super strong support, maybe too much. Remember SK Warriors on MM launch, where alll you had to do was write 'warrior' on deckbuilder filter and put all warriors and you got yourself a tier 1/0 deck? Im afraid something similar might happen now with vampires, strong card individually, even stronger when synergizing. And Orianna stopped being the prime target to counter on vampire decks, now you also need to deal with Unseen Elder for sure.

-On the YT chat i saw a lot of players saying the SK leaders were underwhelming, they got the least support... I disagree. Eist looks insanely good as pointslam card, you have guaranteed BT2 condition with Patricidal Fury, and you have cheap pointslam cards like GS, Jutta and Skjall (but GS is cheaper and doesnt have the berserk risk)

And i do love me some pirates, it will probably be my 1st deck i will try, Terror of the seas will be awesome and it opens up some nice combos.
Also, removing the warrior tag from some pirates is a change i suggested like 6 months ago, glad to finally see it implemented.

-On NR, the Foltest card is a huge boost to Commandos and Dun Banners. I already expressed here my opinion on Commandos, i think they were already too strong, NR Witchers has been dominant lately but part of its popularity its the novelty factor and that it does better vs NG than Commandos. So, i dont like this excessive support.

And Meve, pretty simple card its like a delayed bone talisman with some risk, still with 7pt+2armor it wont be easy to remove and even if its countered you're not too bothered.

-Moving to ST, i really like the dwarf support. Brouver is really great, Gezras 2.0, but you're even more vulnerable to Yrden since dwarves are all about boosts while ST Movement has a mix of boosts and damage.

I love the trap support, but again, it feels too much. The 2 spring options are really strong, Hattori became a must, dont underestimate its versatility value, creating a 2nd copy of the gold trap that will give you most value or even the crushing trap when facing more swarmy decks. Eldain also super strong, and will probably replace the current ST unitless crap with traps, then a massive pointslam with deadeyes and leader for finisher.

-NG. Henrietta. WHAT. THE. F**K?
Are they completely mad? What is this, a 2nd leader ability for 6 provisions? (considering its 3pts 9 provisions, on DEPLOY!)
Yes, there's a chance the opponent ability wont be much use, like Ursine Ritual, but MOST are. And certainly more than 6pts, on average. Maybe they mixed up and this card was meant to be on Order, otherwise its broken.

I do like the spy support and the idea of stealing spies and buffing them all with fake Ciri, i will try that, maybe with the new lockdown.
And the nerfs to VWMentor and Kolgrim - they should have been done way before.

-The SY changes i havent looked with much attention yet, but i think its a necessary buff to crimes, i will finally do my Lined Pockets mastery now after this, maybe with a crimes deck with Cleaver and Whoreson together.
 
I'm really happy to see Lockdown finally get fixed. I just hope it will not take this long for CiriDash to get removed.

The Viper Mentor back at Adrenaline 2 i still bad, because the whole idea behind it is bad. Play it in combo, that put and pull card to the top of opponent's deck - that is a fun combo. But don't give it an op ability that requires no setup and pray on the misfortune of your opponents's drawing. What other 6 provision bronze card can be played as a 12 (or more) pointer? How many 6p gold card come down as 12 points?

I'm also surprised ST movement didn't get slight nerfs. Cat Witcher without adrenaline, or Sentry at 6p? Dwarves are amazing but why introduce yet another card that promotes no-unit decks? (Eldain)

Ending on a good note: Syndicate hopefully will enjoy more plays and more wins now. :)
 
Lets take a big breath, and go through these individually...

- the changes to vampires give me mixed feelings: on one hand, i like that with 2 new powerful golds you can probably make a full vampire deck and not have to include units like Yghern/Ozzrel/Goliath (personally i never liked tall units and never used those).
On the other hand, they are getting super strong support, maybe too much. Remember SK Warriors on MM launch, where alll you had to do was write 'warrior' on deckbuilder filter and put all warriors and you got yourself a tier 1/0 deck? Im afraid something similar might happen now with vampires, strong card individually, even stronger when synergizing. And Orianna stopped being the prime target to counter on vampire decks, now you also need to deal with Unseen Elder for sure.

-On the YT chat i saw a lot of players saying the SK leaders were underwhelming, they got the least support... I disagree. Eist looks insanely good as pointslam card, you have guaranteed BT2 condition with Patricidal Fury, and you have cheap pointslam cards like GS, Jutta and Skjall (but GS is cheaper and doesnt have the berserk risk)

And i do love me some pirates, it will probably be my 1st deck i will try, Terror of the seas will be awesome and it opens up some nice combos.
Also, removing the warrior tag from some pirates is a change i suggested like 6 months ago, glad to finally see it implemented.

-On NR, the Foltest card is a huge boost to Commandos and Dun Banners. I already expressed here my opinion on Commandos, i think they were already too strong, NR Witchers has been dominant lately but part of its popularity its the novelty factor and that it does better vs NG than Commandos. So, i dont like this excessive support.

And Meve, pretty simple card its like a delayed bone talisman with some risk, still with 7pt+2armor it wont be easy to remove and even if its countered you're not too bothered.

-Moving to ST, i really like the dwarf support. Brouver is really great, Gezras 2.0, but you're even more vulnerable to Yrden since dwarves are all about boosts while ST Movement has a mix of boosts and damage.

I love the trap support, but again, it feels too much. The 2 spring options are really strong, Hattori became a must, dont underestimate its versatility value, creating a 2nd copy of the gold trap that will give you most value or even the crushing trap when facing more swarmy decks. Eldain also super strong, and will probably replace the current ST unitless crap with traps, then a massive pointslam with deadeyes and leader for finisher.

-NG. Henrietta. WHAT. THE. F**K?
Are they completely mad? What is this, a 2nd leader ability for 6 provisions? (considering its 3pts 9 provisions, on DEPLOY!)
Yes, there's a chance the opponent ability wont be much use, like Ursine Ritual, but MOST are. And certainly more than 6pts, on average. Maybe they mixed up and this card was meant to be on Order, otherwise its broken.

I do like the spy support and the idea of stealing spies and buffing them all with fake Ciri, i will try that, maybe with the new lockdown.
And the nerfs to VWMentor and Kolgrim - they should have been done way before.

-The SY changes i havent looked with much attention yet, but i think its a necessary buff to crimes, i will finally do my Lined Pockets mastery now after this, maybe with a crimes deck with Cleaver and Whoreson together.
regarding henrietta. my first impression was also wtf this is OP. honestly I think it will end up being a meme card because it just isnt very reliable and NG has very strong top tier cards henrietta will be competing with. but I still think this card has a really bad design and shouldnt be like that.
we'll see about vampires, dwarves, traps and pirates but I'm really positively surprised they addressed those archetypes that were dead in the water. they will surely mix up the meta quite a bit, thank god, I was getting sick of gwent again since january.

Nah, still trash :D
But at least it has somewhat of a potential with lucky mulligans in R1.
I mean yes but... it has the potential to be a 15 point stratagem after 5 turns lmao even being 10 points its already pretty worthwile. will definitely try this over TA in vampires
 
I still think though that Amphibious Assault is a bit too powerful. I'd reduce the maximum provision level of targetable units to 8. It would still be equally powerful on low prov units, but at least you wouldn't be able to pull some key units and engines.

Yeah, or make the boosting a bit more conditional, obtainable through a certain setup. Adrenaline on AA doesn't sound bad.

just play fleder first, next turn use stratagem on the opponents unit to gain 5 vitality plus the 8 boost from protofleder. it will probably waste a good portion of the bleeding especially if its a throw away unit but it's still 21 points +damage in 2 cards if not purified or killed. I guess the big drawback is its not immediate points bc of vitality

Yeah, the reason why I ain't a fan of Fleder is because of the vitality. Vitality is good if it lasts for 3-4 turns, especially in first round which usually tend to be short. Too much vitality early on in the game is wasteful. Vitality is good when it is in small amounts, but spread among more units. NR's Shani is the best at that.
 
NG is the faction with the best leaders, it has Tactical Decision, Imposter, Enslave, and IMO the most underprovisioned ability in the game, Doublecross. Taking Lockdown down a notch was more than necessary, and it definitely doesnt leave the faction without reliable choices.
Ummm where did you take the information that these are the best leaders ? o_O
 
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