Sandra Dorsett/NightCorp and Mr. Blue Eyes mystery solved.....maybe?

[PhishPhosh]

[...]

Alright so I was waiting to see if anyone else came to the same conclusion as myself before I decided to share what I found.

I hope you guys don't think I'm cheating by using the cyberpunk red source book. But anyways here goes..

PHISHPHOSH THEORY TIME

Sandra Dorsett- too many of us belive she related to MBE in some way. We also know that Night Corp is "conditioning" (brainwashing employees) so we have come to the conclusion that either NightCorp is the one behind everything or it's rogue AIs... I don't think this is wrong.

From this point on I'll be using the source book as my primary source of info.. okay so first let's discuss NightCorp. In the book there was only one reference to this corporation. So I thought it was a dead-end FACKK. But not quite. NightCorp for us that don't know is like a philanthropic company. Helping the homeless, non for profit, you know all that good for the people corporation which we know is bs. Anyways the one time they are mentioned they are approving of a company called Ziggurat to implement CitiNet. CitiNet is pretty much a new Net for NC. Again quick side note technically the net got all messed up thanks to our boy Rache Bartmoss. We will get to that in a bit... Now CitiNet which is like Google/ youtube became so popular that many other cities and countries worldwide have began using it. Which at first glance is a good thing. People may now roam a new Net without fear, so great!! Or is it??
The most interesting part about this company is their CEO UR (pronounced You Are) he constantly makes video journals and posts them online. Long story short he's a YouTube vlogger. In his journals he talks about the late Rachel Bartmoss. So much so that it makes it appear that Ur actually knew the legendary netrunner. Keep this in mind as we continue and you'll see where I'm getting at...

Now let's talk about rogue AIs and the old Net. Okay so as the name states rogue AIs have just become uncontrollable. The most notorious of these AIs are called R.A.B.I.Ds
(Roving.artificial.bartmoss.interface.drones)
Along with the virus Bartmoss put into the old net, the RABIDs were also tossed in there. These mofos became rogue because SURPRISE bartmoss is dead so no one can control them. These AIs are also clones of the man himself, we don't know how many there are. But imagine clones of the most legendary netrunner going rogue. THATS NOT GOOD. There have been cases of these AIs murdering real people to aquire more bandwidth which is crazy. So we know they can attack people. We don't know how, but I think it's likely they are able to control dolls and maybe hijack people that are dumb enough to connect into the old Net. You guys see where I'm going with this.

Remember how we found that UR makes vlogs and talks about Rachel Bartmoss like he knows the dude. I propose that UR is a doll or a hijacked human under the control by of one of the R.A.B.I.Ds. WHAAAAT. Yeah I think ziggurat and now their worldwide product CitiNet is all under the control of a rogue AI. Just take that in for a minute and let it simmer... keep thinking....

now ask yourself how is NightCorp related to all this? Well they were the company that allowed CitiNet to be implemented for the first time. In many ways the success of CitiNet in a major city like NC made this product desirable world wide. And now we know it has become just that. I think there are 2 possibilities 1. NightCorp is also under the control of the R.A.B.I.Ds. and 2. A human has allied themselves with rogue AIs to allow them to take over. If we belive that rogue AIs are able to control dolls or hijacked humans. Let's look at MBE and what is happening to the peralez couple. Maybe this brainwashing is all part of their plan. Like creating a bunch of political puppets world wide. From CEOs to mayor's, if they succeed they can control pretty much anything.

In conclusion Sandra Dorsett stumbled upon this pandoras box. Those people following her could very much be AIs in dolls!!!

CtiNet is used as a seemingly new and trusted product around the world now allowing people to use the Net. Then someone gets hijacked maybe what happened to MBE and they use them to start their world domination quest lol..

That is it. I'm pretty sure I missed some stuff. Let me know what you guys think

If you made it this far you're a real one hope you enjoyed the theory

 

[bcraig6010]

I think it would be overly simplistic storytelling to have it all chalked up to Mr. Blue Eyes.
As the Sandra quest references night corp and the company doing slight modifications in behavior. i.e. behavoral modification which doesn't require overwriting brain or memories.
THEN - we have a mayor elect quest where their memories are literally being rewritten and modified and controlled and thats where the likely AI link and Mr. Blue Eyes comes in.
Then we have the Arasaka way of literal engram rewriting of the brain en masse.

Three completely different styles of modifying the individual.
Would be very poor and lazy story telling to have the different versions in example 1 an 2 all chalked up to say generic entity.

Would be far more effective.. "spooky" even.. to have numerous corporations working on mind control or modification and doing it in different means and methods according to their research lines.

 

[Hayte]

I've heard this theory before and its very cool but I think it jumps to the conclusion that rogue AIs have taken over Nightcorp when that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. Nightcorp used to be a trust or foundation set up in the wake of Richard Night's death to continue its founder's ideal of creating a utopian city. As long as megacorps exist there is no way for them to fulfill this mandate and there is no way to eject megacorps from NC. They are supra sovereign entities.

I can easily see Nightcorp dabbling in clandestine AI development and building public net infrastructure with the long term goal of covertly re-establishing its control over NC. And one way it can do that is to use its public net as a pathway for its personality modification AI (referred to as CN-07 on the Operation: Carpe Noctem" datashard) to infiltrate high level political and corporate actors so they begin to make decisions that are favourable to Nightcorp's design for NC.

We only know that CN-07 is controlled by Nightcorp. We don't know how they got it - whether they developed it internally or if it came from beyond the Blackwall. If you go with the Blackwall theory then everything in the OP is absolutely possible but I like the ambiguity and it would be shame if the whole thing had such a definitive answer.

It also appears from Operation: Carpe Noctem that CN-07 is in an early trial phase and while it has been proven that it can radically modify human personality, it does not seem like something Nightcorp has full control over. Yet.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

[...]

Alright so I was waiting to see if anyone else came to the same conclusion as myself before I decided to share what I found.

I hope you guys don't think I'm cheating by using the cyberpunk red source book. But anyways here goes..

PHISHPHOSH THEORY TIME

Sandra Dorsett- too many of us belive she related to MBE in some way. We also know that Night Corp is "conditioning" (brainwashing employees) so we have come to the conclusion that either NightCorp is the one behind everything or it's rogue AIs... I don't think this is wrong.

From this point on I'll be using the source book as my primary source of info.. okay so first let's discuss NightCorp. In the book there was only one reference to this corporation. So I thought it was a dead-end FACKK. But not quite. NightCorp for us that don't know is like a philanthropic company. Helping the homeless, non for profit, you know all that good for the people corporation which we know is bs. Anyways the one time they are mentioned they are approving of a company called Ziggurat to implement CitiNet. CitiNet is pretty much a new Net for NC. Again quick side note technically the net got all messed up thanks to our boy Rache Bartmoss. We will get to that in a bit... Now CitiNet which is like Google/ youtube became so popular that many other cities and countries worldwide have began using it. Which at first glance is a good thing. People may now roam a new Net without fear, so great!! Or is it??
The most interesting part about this company is their CEO UR (pronounced You Are) he constantly makes video journals and posts them online. Long story short he's a YouTube vlogger. In his journals he talks about the late Rachel Bartmoss. So much so that it makes it appear that Ur actually knew the legendary netrunner. Keep this in mind as we continue and you'll see where I'm getting at...

Now let's talk about rogue AIs and the old Net. Okay so as the name states rogue AIs have just become uncontrollable. The most notorious of these AIs are called R.A.B.I.Ds
(Roving.artificial.bartmoss.interface.drones)
Along with the virus Bartmoss put into the old net, the RABIDs were also tossed in there. These mofos became rogue because SURPRISE bartmoss is dead so no one can control them. These AIs are also clones of the man himself, we don't know how many there are. But imagine clones of the most legendary netrunner going rogue. THATS NOT GOOD. There have been cases of these AIs murdering real people to aquire more bandwidth which is crazy. So we know they can attack people. We don't know how, but I think it's likely they are able to control dolls and maybe hijack people that are dumb enough to connect into the old Net. You guys see where I'm going with this.

Remember how we found that UR makes vlogs and talks about Rachel Bartmoss like he knows the dude. I propose that UR is a doll or a hijacked human under the control by of one of the R.A.B.I.Ds. WHAAAAT. Yeah I think ziggurat and now their worldwide product CitiNet is all under the control of a rogue AI. Just take that in for a minute and let it simmer... keep thinking....

now ask yourself how is NightCorp related to all this? Well they were the company that allowed CitiNet to be implemented for the first time. In many ways the success of CitiNet in a major city like NC made this product desirable world wide. And now we know it has become just that. I think there are 2 possibilities 1. NightCorp is also under the control of the R.A.B.I.Ds. and 2. A human has allied themselves with rogue AIs to allow them to take over. If we belive that rogue AIs are able to control dolls or hijacked humans. Let's look at MBE and what is happening to the peralez couple. Maybe this brainwashing is all part of their plan. Like creating a bunch of political puppets world wide. From CEOs to mayor's, if they succeed they can control pretty much anything.

In conclusion Sandra Dorsett stumbled upon this pandoras box. Those people following her could very much be AIs in dolls!!!

CtiNet is used as a seemingly new and trusted product around the world now allowing people to use the Net. Then someone gets hijacked maybe what happened to MBE and they use them to start their world domination quest lol..

That is it. I'm pretty sure I missed some stuff. Let me know what you guys think

If you made it this far you're a real one hope you enjoyed the theory

I don't think AIs can jack humans directly. Also, night Corp has some agenda, but its uncertain what that agenda is. And a lot is unknown about how things have changed from 2045 to 2077


soo while your theory is a possibility, there's not a lot of Canon facts to support it

 

[CS554]

I don't think AIs can jack humans directly. Also, night Corp has some agenda, but its uncertain what that agenda is. And a lot is unknown about how things have changed from 2045 to 2077

There are 4 or 5 types of AI's (some of them hybrids) and what comes to CP 2077, host would be soulkilled and then, we have and AI in biological body, with an issue that they don't understand how it works. AI's don't need to breathe, their human body would. I won't go on further details about this, but recommend checking the Night Queen show.

There's this possession thing we encounter in game but I don't recall if there was any background info if entity there was perhaps someone soulkilled by Arasaka, stored to engram and escaped.

Something I can say is that how AI's work in Cyberpunk, it's not stupid. Creators acknowledge things like how alien AI's are compared to us and also incompatible in certain ways. Say AI stores itself somewhere later and in few seconds later notices that there is this thing heart that needs to pump blood for this organism to function and it just happened to write itself on top of that and that would be the end of story for that AI. While example like that can be also seen as dark humor, ideas like that are IMO actually far better than we get in many works of fiction as they are based on real life questions.

 

[PhishPhosh]

I don't think AIs can jack humans directly. Also, night Corp has some agenda, but its uncertain what that agenda is. And a lot is unknown about how things have changed from 2045 to 2077


soo while your theory is a possibility, there's not a lot of Canon facts to support it

hey thanks for the comment.

I don't think AIs can jack humans directly. Also, night Corp has some agenda, but its uncertain what that agenda is. And a lot is unknown about how things have changed from 2045 to 2077


soo while your theory is a possibility, there's not a lot of Canon facts to support it

hey I'm not sure we are on the same page most of the info I shared was from a Cyberpunk Red sourcebook. This is the board game cyberpunk 2077 is derived from. As of 2018 CDPR partnered or worked with R.Tailsorian games to create the source books. I'm a little confused why facts from their source books would not be canon.

That is like saying Johnny Silverhand being killed by Adam Smasher is not canon, as this is also found in the source books?

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

hey thanks for the comment.



hey I'm not sure we are on the same page most of the info I shared was from a Cyberpunk Red sourcebook. This is the board game cyberpunk 2077 is derived from. As of 2018 CDPR partnered or worked with R.Tailsorian games to create the source books. I'm a little confused why facts from their source books would not be canon.

That is like saying Johnny Silverhand being killed by Adam Smasher is not canon, as this is also found in the source books?

yeah, I read cyberpunk red, where did it say that Ur could be a rogue AI?

 

[PhishPhosh]

like i said in the video he could be a rogue AI like Mr.blue eyes. In the books, UR makes video blogs and there it states he talks about Rache BArtmoss like he knows the guy. In my theory the only reason why this could happen is if UR is actually one of the RABIDs

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2021

yeah, I read cyberpunk red, where did it say that Ur could be a rogue AI?

here is the quite that I'm using as a base to this theory.... why would the writers bother with this line? I think its their way of planting little seeds.

"UR regularly mentions the infamous Rache Bartmoss in a way that indicates the founder of Ziggurat either has, or believes they have, a personal connection to the renegade Netrunner. "

 

[BLACKxPLAGUEx13]

Someone somewhere has probably already mentioned this too. But you can see Mr. Blue Eyes on the balcony next to Peralez when you talk to him at the end of Dream On.

 

[brannonb]

I noted in my most recent play-through that it is possible to kill Sandra Dorsett when you deliver her databank to her.

Anyone checked out what effect this has on the rest of the game's stories?

 

[PhishPhosh]

I noted in my most recent play-through that it is possible to kill Sandra Dorsett when you deliver her databank to her.

Anyone checked out what effect this has on the rest of the game's stories?

so far nothing :/ i killed her in one playthrough and let her live in another. Finished the game both times and nothing happened

 

[msxyz]

Has anybody tried to kill Mr. Blue Eyes on the balcony? Can't train a weapon against him. As soon as the cursor moves over him, V lowers the weapon

 

[Guest 4400165]

Has anybody tried to kill Mr. Blue Eyes on the balcony? Can't train a weapon against him. As soon as the cursor moves over him, V lowers the weapon

I did, tossed some grenades and nothing.

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2021

...
That is like saying Johnny Silverhand being killed by Adam Smasher is not canon, as this is also found in the source books?

Soulkiller killed him, though. He shot Johnny, but the Soulkiller did it. We even had a small verbal exchange with Saburo, after Smasher shot Johnny and he was transported to Mikoshi (?).

 

[PhishPhosh]

I did, tossed some grenades and nothing.

Post automatically merged: Mar 31, 2021

Soulkiller killed him, though. He shot Johnny, but the Soulkiller did it. We even had a small verbal exchange with Saburo, after Smasher shot Johnny and he was transported to Mikoshi (?).

Lol i just think this was a cover. Because of how characters like alt saying Johnny altered his own memories to make it look more grandios. In the source books Adam Smasher kills him. But then again even when flatlined soulkiller can be used to trap a persons soul in mikoshi, just like what arasaka did to jackie

 

[Guest 4400165]

Lol i just think this was a cover. Because of how characters like alt saying Johnny altered his own memories to make it look more grandios. In the source books Adam Smasher kills him. But then again even when flatlined soulkiller can be used to trap a persons soul in mikoshi, just like what arasaka did to jackie

I remember her saying that, but I always connected it to her rescue/death episode.

Btw, did Jackie get a crappy version of Serialkiller/Relic or something in the book, too? Because in the game, he seemed like a piece of a memory, rather than a complete personality engram. Or was it because he was dead, when they did it? Then, that'd mean Johhny was alive before they hit him with the Soulkiller, otherwise he'd be nothing more than Jackie (considering then it was only a prototype).

 

[MartineDee]

Hmm.

An expansion to Cyberpunk 2077 could be titled Cyberwars: humans vs rogue AIs, Netwatch busted, whatnot.

I came here dragged in by the name. I have started CP2077 three times so far. Every time, I had to shut down the cam in my stream as taking Sandra out of that bath tube on start makes me cry. I hate Scavs.

 

[GogRelvas]

These are very interesting. I haven't managed to get my hands on the books yet.
Do you think cyberpsychosis would be a rejected rogue AI on some cases?
Also how do you connect the Blood ritual and Gary's last mission? It seems these rogue AIs are contacting Maelstrooms to volunteer as vessels for more rogue AIs through the Lilith adoration. A lot of theories out there say Lilith is Alt.
I really need to order the books

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Also how do you connect the Blood ritual and Gary's last mission?

Maybe the last answer by V to Regina after completing "Blood Ritual"
"Technonecromancers, for sure"

 

[bcraig6010]

Hmm.

An expansion to Cyberpunk 2077 could be titled Cyberwars: humans vs rogue AIs, Netwatch busted, whatnot.

I came here dragged in by the name. I have started CP2077 three times so far. Every time, I had to shut down the cam in my stream as taking Sandra out of that bath tube on start makes me cry. I hate Scavs.

don't know how far you have gotten.. but if you think that is bad there is a part two of her quest. That quest/questline a topic could have been developed so much more and wish V has been given freedom to go after the Scavs

 

[MartineDee]

don't know how far you have gotten.. but if you think that is bad there is a part two of her quest. That quest/questline a topic could have been developed so much more and wish V has been given freedom to go after the Scavs

I completed the game a couple of times (500+ hours).
By completed, I mean scooped everything there was to do, took countless rides on that small toy roller coaster, walked all of a NC's rails multiple times, glitched out and drove many rounds around the game's 16 x 16 km plate, spent much time harassing respawning street gangs in all of the NC, and just general chilling out in the NC. Playing it for the third time now.

If there was the crystal palace to glitch into, I'd probably spend some 100 hours just demolishing it over and over with my Caliburns.

Yes, I want to go after Scavs more than after any other group in the NC. If there was a pool on which group I hate the most, that wouldn't be Arasaka, Maelstrom, or Tyger Claws. That would be Scavengers. There is no other group in the NC I would actively pursue to destroy.

Take that chap, Stefan. His deal reeked of taking money for nothing, so I never made it part of my gameplay.

Spoiler warn.

But I looked it up. Little did I know that he actually bags V and delivers them to Scavengers, in the very same dump where Sandra Dorsett was found. Had this happened to my V, that would be it. All quests stop until Scavs are all dead and driven out of the city. Annihilated. I'd probably find Stefan and spend a couple of hours loading all my ammo, grenades, and cyberware damage into him in the middle of that. Only Dex got more hate from me.

It is scary to think what my V has become... lone top bully and harasser in the city, most easily noticed by extremely aggressive driving of Caliburns. Dunno, with such a reputation, Scavs might just refuse to 'process' V, and dump her on the street instead.

"What if she wakes up?"
"We'll be all dead. Dump her on the street, the other end of the town. Quickly! If she wakes up before that, offer your most sincere apologies and cooperation and hope that's enough to get out alive. Run for it!"