Anna Henrietta may make me quit Gwent for good

[AngryDeadGuy]

So? It's not a game about how many leaders you play. It's about how many points you play.

Why have leaders then? I've only really played one faction so far, and one of the first things I've noticed about opponents, even when they're in the same factions, is that the cards I always see popping up very frequently are the same sets for each leader ability. Generally, when I see a leader ability, I can sort of know which way to lean during mulligan because I have a decent idea of what they might do.

PS. I just found out both Birna discards come back, consuming only one Eist counter... You guys still wanna talk about the Anna?

I mean... yes? That's what most of us are on this thread to gripe about. Eist is a different issue that deserves different energy. This Anna thing is brand new and pretty much anybody that doesn't play NG is going to want to blow off a little steam about it. Since my last post, in the last 45 minutes or so, I lost 2 more rounds specifically due to this issue.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

I have seen Anna a lot in the past few days and I can say that she's definitely pulling her weight.

Direct point calculation as someone listed above does not paint a full picture, because there are also potential synergies that could make all the difference in round 3 when people usually play her.

And let's not forget that she has 3 body. It's not much but it's something.

When I will play NG, Anna will be auto-include for me for sure.

 

[Draconifors]

You guys still wanna talk about the Anna?

This thread's topic is Anna Henrietta, so anyone posting here does want to talk about her.
And on that note, we'll not allow the thread to get derailed.

----

I've neither played nor faced Anna yet, so can't really say much. However, I've seen her played and I also know I'm seeing a very familiar pattern here.
Yes, some abilities are excellent to copy, and make Anna a really strong card. But some abilities are utter garbage to copy, and make Anna a 3 for 9. Some, probably most, are in between the two extremes.

In any case, I would say it's too early to call her OP; the card was released less than 48 hours ago. It also seems, though again it's early to say, that decks with a completely useless Leader ability to copy are at least somewhat prevalent, which means bad matchups for running Anna.

 

[Markus_Wirth]

Lol ok let's see the Anna:

SK Ursine: 4-9 for 9 (armor saves value)
SK Blaze: 7-8 for 9
SK Arnjolf: 11 for 9 (plus assimilate value)
NR Zeal: 6 for 9
NR Shieldwall: 9 for 9
NR Uprising: 12+ for 9 (plus assimilate)
ST Elves: 12 for 9
ST Gift: 9 for 9
ST PS: 10 for 9 (plus assimilate)
MO Carapace: 12 for 9
MO Vamps: 9 for 9
most SY: 3 for 9
mirror Cross: sick value
other mirrors: shit value

So in general it's mediocre most of the time, decent sometimes, sometimes it would be considered a brick even if it was 4p and rarely is it excellent (more often in assimilate). Keep in mind that matchups where it's 12 for 9 are typically bad matchups for NG. Carapace now should be a terrible matchup for no Lockdown NG with locks and poisons nullified. Might be better average value for assimilate, though, but I don't see assimilate ever creating as much commotion as it is portrayed in NG rants. IIRC Assimilate was never a winning leader in pro (I mean 50+% winrate).

Thanks for your analysis basically what I say. It´s definitely not a game breaking card. But Eist definitely is.

 

[Messyr]

I didn't understand half the lingo there - I'm still relatively new, but I think I get the gist of what you're saying (though I'm not sure what Einst is - I haven't memorized all the names yet). But the point is that Anna just gives another considerable advantage to NG, which already seems to have the most advantages, and not just by a little.

Yes, that analogy would be true if we would examine factions in a vacuum. If you compare NG to other factions by control tools and "unfair" advantages, they will win flat out, no doubt about that.
But we are not comparing factions in a vacuum if we want to see an objective picture. You mention you are relatively new to the game, so my advice to you is to always try to look at things from the big picture first before starting to analyse details. I could give you a few similar misleading clues (and I know for certain, there are countless complaints coming for these as well), like NR having way too effective engines and solitaire pointslam compared to other factions, SK having massive control and pointslam, and the list goes on.
However, the important part is to see how these advantages - while everything is working together - affect total winrates at the end of the day. And NG is in a fair position right now. Would you believe that just a few months ago NG was considered one of the weakest options by this very same community?

It's the same answer to why they row locked Damien.

But it is really not. Others have already pointed out numerous times, so I won't really repeat the same thing, but in short: Your Leader =/= Opponent's Leader. One is a gamble, the other is benefitting from every single synergy you've built your deck around.
Sure, we can argue endlessly about relative values, synergies, weightings - true, in many cases Anna can provide an advantage that way surpasses the pure points coming from the net calculation of Leader value. In other cases it won't even pull her weight pointwise. I agree in general she will pull fair values or even create a solid advantage - which is absolutely perfect, otherwise there would be no reason to use her.
And as long as there are no gamebreaking scenarios where she just autowins certain matchups, there is nothing wrong with her. The concept is fresh, tactical, and very much fitting into NG's arsenal.

 

[Madlax1992]

The same old complaints about some NG cards being broken, toxic or whatever, but when you actually calculate the amount of value it can bring, you find out that the card is very, very binary.

Most leaders that Anna can copy will either compensate her provision cost, or be something like 1-2 points more or less than her provision count. How can you call this card broken? In addition, the meta is not yet settled. People are still testing, experimenting with the new cards and the new changes made to old cards.

Until now, rather than Anna, I find other new cards to be a bit OP. Take Eldain for example. His deploy ability is nuts in a no-unit ST deck. Broover is also a very strong card that can only be answered effectively with Heatwave and secondly with locks (if you are lucky and no purify is available). And the card to crown all OP cards, Eist. I have played against Eist Blaze of Glory decks. The synergy you get with it, coupled with the leader ability + Jutta is an instant win. If anything, THIS IS the card that should make one quit, not Anna.

We are going back to the period when everybody believed NG to be too OP, when it barely has 1, maybe 2 decks on the lower ends of Tier 2, while the Tier 1 decks who are much more oppressive don't get the same criticism. People were right when it came to Lockdown, Viper Witcher Mentor and Kolgrim. That was indeed a terrible, toxic and game breaking combo. The amount of pointslam and oppressiveness was ridiculous. But in the case of Anna... I am not that convinced. Not yet at least.

 

[skaleras]

Anna is 15 points just by copying vampire leader or 8 points against precision strike (you get removal though) really powerful card but I mean I think is not good against lets say ursine ritual or natures gift

 

[Menelaus234]

OP: *makes a post about anna*
Others: *but what about Eist tho*

But seriously, she isn't that bad to make you quit

She's quite inconsistent..a generally bad play vs. NR and SY..Mahakam forge is a thing now so that's another bad copy..Blood Scent gives her 9 points over time..

Shes good meme potential though

 

[saodhar]

I've neither played nor faced Anna yet, so can't really say much. However, I've seen her played and I also know I'm seeing a very familiar pattern here.
Yes, some abilities are excellent to copy, and make Anna a really strong card. But some abilities are utter garbage to copy, and make Anna a 3 for 9. Some, probably most, are in between the two extremes.

Just excellent. So we'll see less of abilities that Henrietta can effectively copy and more of the others. Such fine balancing. Luckily for me I only lack masteries in SY abilities, Blaze of Glory, Blood Scent and Hunger. Only the last two could be of some use for Henrietta players, I think, so I'm safe for now.
I simply don't understand why this card was needed. To strengthen assimilation-based decks? I don't remember them doing poorly without Henrietta.

 

[Messyr]

Just excellent. So we'll see less of abilities that Henrietta can effectively copy and more of the others. Such fine balancing. Luckily for me I only lack masteries in SY abilities, Blaze of Glory, Blood Scent and Hunger. Only the last two could be of some use for Henrietta players, I think, so I'm safe for now.
I simply don't understand why this card was needed. To strengthen assimilation-based decks? I don't remember them doing poorly without Henrietta.

I'd say the same reason why new mechanics are needed at the first place. It is new, it is unique, it is annoying (fits NG), it can be powerful, but most of all, definitely opens up a helluva lot new tactical plays. On the contrary of some opinions I really like her as a new addition to the game.

 

[ReaperTek]

Lol ok let's see the Anna:

SK Ursine: 4-9 for 9 (armor saves value)
SK Blaze: 7-8 for 9
SK Arnjolf: 11 for 9 (plus assimilate value)
NR Zeal: 6 for 9
NR Shieldwall: 9 for 9
NR Uprising: 12+ for 9 (plus assimilate)
ST Elves: 12 for 9
ST Gift: 9 for 9
ST PS: 10 for 9 (plus assimilate)
MO Carapace: 12 for 9
MO Vamps: 9 for 9
most SY: 3 for 9
mirror Cross: sick value
other mirrors: shit value

Sorry for using a German word but that simply describes this Milchmädchenrechnung* best, because you know exactly from the start which leader skill you'll get and Nilfgaard is definitely not lacking the tools to Copy/Seize at least a few units in preparation to get best possible benefit from the copied Leader Skill and especially mentioning the copying the other Nilfgaard Leaders as S%*%t value where you don't even need something to synergise with on board and always will end up getting good value kind of takes all credibility from this post.

I wouldn't exactly call her overpowered but she's definitely way to cheap especially because it's a risk free deploy ability.


*Milkmaid calculation (in Germany commonly used for a calculation that seems logical, but misses out many important factors.)

 

[InkognitoXI]

Sorry for using a German word but that simply describes this Milchmädchenrechnung* best, because you know exactly from the start which leader skill you'll get and Nilfgaard is definitely not lacking the tools to Copy/Seize at least a few units in preparation to get best possible benefit from the copied Leader Skill [...]

And at that point you have to build around her and use archetypes that were maybe Tier 2 at best in the last season (Tier 3 for Assimilate) to keep her somewhat reliable, so if you state her to be as "free" as some people are arguing you run into a contradiction.
Of course Anna is basically a roulette button if you just slot her into just any NG deck.
If you add her into a dedicated Assimilate/Seize deck you are get rewarded for all the cards you have to play around her and depending on the matchup you might still not find a great enough use with the ability she supplies (e.g. Arachas Swarm, Jackpot (if you find no bronze spenders), Inspired Zeal) to break even.

 

[Celadyl]

Anna isnt even good. Anna CAN be good and CAN be terrible and it is completely out of your control which of the two is going to happen. NG has so many strong top provision options, Anna honestly cannot compete other than in meme lists (or bear seasonal) because of here total inconsistency. I'd say she is probably best in NG mirrors.

 

[ReaperTek]

And at that point you have to build around her and use archetypes that were maybe Tier 2 at best in the last season (Tier 3 for Assimilate) to keep her somewhat reliable, so if you state her to be as "free" as some people are arguing you run into a contradiction.
Of course Anna is basically a roulette button if you just slot her into just any NG deck.
If you add her into a dedicated Assimilate/Seize deck you are get rewarded for all the cards you have to play around her and depending on the matchup you might still not find a great enough use with the ability she supplies (e.g. Arachas Swarm, Jackpot (if you find no bronze spenders), Inspired Zeal) to break even.

Well I didn't even talk about a full assimilate or seize deck completely built around her where you maybe can even benefit from Stockpile if you use Double Cross early on and copy the Leader skill afterwards, I talked about just including 1 or 2 Card's (like Yenn Invocation, Cadaverine a Dutchess Informant or experimental remedy) to get additional Value from it, i mean seriously if you don't put in at least one additional support card for her you can't really complain about not getting decent value from her it would be kind of the same if someone says Eist isn't that good because he's not playing BoG and doesn't run any discard Card's.

 

[saodhar]

definitely opens up a helluva lot new tactical plays.

Only it won't. As always, 99,(9)% of players will wait for someone to post a working deck with the new card(s), download it (decks often come with instructions on how to use them, right?) and spam the hell out of it, not even thinking how optimal the new mechanics is. Yes, if the decks won't provide high win rate, they will eventually switch to other downloaded decks.
As for me, I don't care for Henrietta - I don't play NG because i don't remember the last time I had any fun with the faction, and my current decks seem to be safe from her.
The actual problem with Henrietta I see is her unconditionality. You use your ability, deploy the card and get a new ability. No trap, board setup or anything at all can stop a deploy ability from happening. So I see no reason for quitting because of her, it's a just a new unneeded boring card with some possible use.

 

[Messyr]

it's a just a new unneeded boring card

Well, I definintely disagree with this sentence, I find her rather the exact opposite - but then again, to each their own

 

[Draconifors]

'Boring' is definitely not a word I would use about Anna, because what she copies varies wildly and can affect her player's gameplan in numerous different ways depending on several factors.

The basic mechanic is always the same, yes, but that applies to most cards in the game.

 

[saodhar]

Well, I definintely disagree with this sentence, I find her rather the exact opposite - but then again, to each their own

'Boring' is definitely not a word I would use about Anna, because what she copies varies wildly and can affect her player's gameplan in numerous different ways depending on several factors.

The basic mechanic is always the same, yes, but that applies to most cards in the game.

Yes, maybe I used the wrong word. It's just that I see Henrietta's synergy potential as too straightforward. If you want to get the most of the opponent's ability, you'll definitely be willing to get as many of their cards tied to the ability. So informants (and card that create them), remedies, bribery, diplomacy. The usual NG stuff, actually.
That's why I'm as excited for Henrietta as I am for heatwave. And no decks of mine use heatwave (except for the purely neutral one, but it even has oneiromancy - so a definite outcast)

 

[Slizzl]

Since when was assimilate this top tier straightforward archetype? As far as I can recall it's been weak because of the fact you have to completely adapt to your opponent.
I think I'm playing another game than the rest of this forum.

 

[Messyr]

If you want to get the most of the opponent's ability, you'll definitely be willing to get as many of their cards tied to the ability. So informants (and card that create them), remedies, bribery, diplomacy. The usual NG stuff, actually.
That's why I'm as excited for Henrietta as I am for heatwave.

Don't wanna be nitpicky here, but wouldn't then this be true for like.. every other major card in the game?

If you want to get the most out of Crach, of course you'll pack your deck with pirates and ships.
If you want to get the most out of Eldain, probably you'll use traps in your deck.
.. and the list goes on.

These are archetype defining legendaries, their main purpose is to create/support/carry the decks built around them.

However, I really believe Anna Henrietta is not like this - she is more like a supportive card that can be used rather freely in multiple archetypes. As mentioned earlier, sort of a gamble, with an approximately 75% success rate across the board (I really just pulled this number out of my a$$).