Moderator: Hello, all. As a reminder, please, focus on the question of pre-orders, and try to ease up on politics, morality, or social commentaries. These are rather inappropriate topics for these Forums. As outlined in the rules, it is prohibited to write about political, religious and other world-view topics; this does not apply to discussions about fictional topics connected with the worlds depicted in the CDPR products. So, back on topic, please. Thank you.
What you mentioned makes a LOT of assumptions, the most glaring one is the idea of "evil". How can you say that a corporation is inherently evil if the definition of evil per-se is not definite nor absolute. For example, you may assume X person is evil because it decides to save 4 people by letting 1 die; for some he may be amoral. cruel, etc. for others it might be logical or even compassionate. You cannot base an idea of a corporation based on extremely relative views of good and evil. The world is rarely made of pure evil or pure good.
Only reason dirty money is so readily available is overregulation and overburden on some aspects of the economy and too much freedom on other aspects; there must be a balance between free market and government regulation. Whilst I do agree that some people shall exploit loopholes to gain an advantage no matter what, it is also true that some exploit said loopholes because sometimes market overregulation creates an environment of oppressive limitation that goes beyond rational motive.
Main issue is that the nanny-states in many countries remove the factor of personal responsibility from individuals by over-catering to their needs and wishes without making them realise they have responsibility for their own actions in the world. People nowadays bitch, complain, bark loud, etc. yet they never show any sign of self-restraint; a marketing campaign must ALWAYS be taken with scepticism and never be trusting of any third party because they say their product is the next best thing of the century. If people didn't blindly trust nor wanted immediate gratification for everything the market would adapt else the economy would just freeze in certain sectors.
Also lol... I thought it was an axiom when I mentioned corporations excluding charities and non-profit organisations; ALL others are made for profit.
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That is factually not true.
Capcom has a track record of releasing horrible shit, nowadays it has kind of redeemed itself a bit.
RDR2 was a broken mess in PC.
Street Fighter is a cash grab, same with GTA Online... I mean, CDPR is trash atm, but do not say that neither of the ones you have mentioned has never released unfinished trash, with Nintendo is worse as it has released hardware with defects many times.
"Street Fighter is a cash grab, same with GTA Online... I mean, CDPR is trash atm, but do not say that neither of the ones you have mentioned has never released unfinished trash"
Again your not reading what I say careful enough:
I said "They did not released an unfinished, broken, unoptimized product at the levels of Cyberpunk 2077".
My argument Its not about existence of problems or greed but about the level of problems and greed.
I dont remember a release from them as bad as cyberpunk 2077.
Played all Resident Evil games, dragon dogma, devil May cry games, most street fighter.
Looked things online.
GTA Online is an addition to gta5. You can play the single player without gta online.
The greed is still much less for gta 5 single player is a very good experience.
Cyberpunk 2077 is just the single player version and the level of being unfinished, broken, bugs count, unoptimization, gameplay things being so mediocre is on a level that cannot be compared.
"RDR2 was a broken mess in PC."
That is not true.
RDR2 It had some issues but for the most part was a good experience. The game is a masterpiece in terms of visuals, physics, Lighting, AI, story, characters, voice acting. The game run very well on my pc. The details in that game is beyond comparison.
Cyberpunk 2077 is the opposite is a joke.
Riddle with bugs, graphical glitches, brain dead ai, broken systems like weather, perks, audio voice acting nor working, broken lip sync, mediocre driving, shooting, useless loot, looking ridiculous, interaction with world non existent, mostly nothing to do beside quests in a big open world, severely unoptimised(running on my pc below even 10 fps basically unplayable), crashing every hour one or two times, rpg mechanics basically non existent.
Cyberpunk 2077 was removed from PS.
They tried to hide how bad things was on console to make more sales.
They claim to be the good guys and leave greed to others.
They hyped the game as being the greatest thing then release a turd.
They hyped the game as being rpg then release a action adventure.
There is no term of comparison.
You dont See Rockstar or Capcom or Nauthy Dog or SE to say we are the good guys we leave greed to others.
These companies have never false advertised at the level of CDPR.
Its even more bad then Fallout 76.
You do remember Rockstar promised additions to single player and not only to Online? Tell me when that "expansion" ever happened? RDR2 was a broken mess at launch, could not even get it to work that is a fact and wasn't fixed for a while. Nowadays runs fine, but does not eliminate the fact it was broken at start.
Do you even remember how unpolished GTA V was on PC for a while? Nope? Well I do because I had it since release on PC; missing textures, extremely poor thread usage, etc.
For Capcom Ultra Street Fighter VI was unplayable, so much Capcom pulled it out from their tour. Direct quote "In 2016, Capcom released Street Fighter V with very limited single player content. At launch, there were stability issues with the game's network that booted players mid-game even when they were not playing in an online mode."
Also remember SE's gem? "Final Fantasy: All the Bravest was almost universally panned. Reviewers mainly focused their criticisms on the large number and cost of in-app purchases along with the lack of story, simplistic gameplay, and a lack of respect for players by Square Enix. Despite the poor reception, the game still managed to chart at number 25 on the "Top Paid Apps" chart on the iTunes App Store on January 18, 2013. "
It is funny people forget how trash all the companies are, lol. Redirect your hate towards something more useful and bother to think.
You do remember Rockstar promised additions to single player and not only to Online? Tell me when that "expansion" ever happened? RDR2 was a broken mess at launch, could not even get it to work that is a fact and wasn't fixed for a while. Nowadays runs fine, but does not eliminate the fact it was broken at start.
Do you even remember how unpolished GTA V was on PC for a while? Nope? Well I do because I had it since release on PC; missing textures, extremely poor thread usage, etc.
For Capcom Ultra Street Fighter VI was unplayable, so much Capcom pulled it out from their tour. Direct quote "In 2016, Capcom released Street Fighter V with very limited single player content. At launch, there were stability issues with the game's network that booted players mid-game even when they were not playing in an online mode."
Also remember SE's gem? "Final Fantasy: All the Bravest was almost universally panned. Reviewers mainly focused their criticisms on the large number and cost of in-app purchases along with the lack of story, simplistic gameplay, and a lack of respect for players by Square Enix. Despite the poor reception, the game still managed to chart at number 25 on the "Top Paid Apps" chart on the iTunes App Store on January 18, 2013. "
It is funny people forget how trash all the companies are, lol. Redirect your hate towards something more useful and bother to think.
The level of trash is far bigger in cyberpunk 2077 then the games you mention.
GTA 5, Read Dead 2, and the other ones were not as broken as cyberpunk. Not by far.
Played both GTA 5 and RDR2 at launch with mostly no issue after few days. Cyberpunk its still broken after three months. The comparison is moot.
These companies did not said their are the good guys and they leave greed to other.
They did not hype and false advertised at the level of CDPR.
You cannot compare the level of trash from Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077. Its beyond imagination.
The level of trash is far bigger in cyberpunk 2077 then the games you mention.
GTA 5, Read Dead 2, and the other ones were not as broken as cyberpunk. Not by far.
These companies did not said their are the good guys and they leave greed to other.
They did not hype and false advertised at the level of CDPR.
You cannot compare the level of trash from Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077. Its beyond imagination.
With all those precedents wouldn't you think that people would be smarter as to not believe the word of a faceless company? Also it is not beyond imagination, well... maybe it is if you do not have a lot of it, but that is besides the point. Why did you expect anything from ANY corporation at all? Rockstar, Capcom, Bethesda, SE, Konami and a long list of etcereras have lied, deceived and made trash at one point or another. CDPR did just what was already on the book.
Also, lol, did you really--like SERIOUSLY--believe CDPR's claims of them being the good guys? How naïve do you have to be to believe that?
With all those precedents wouldn't you think that people would be smarter as to not believe the word of a faceless company? Also it is not beyond imagination, well... maybe it is if you do not have a lot of it, but that is besides the point. Why did you expect anything from ANY corporation at all? Rockstar, Capcom, Bethesda, SE, Konami and a long list of etcereras have lied, deceived and made trash at one point or another. CDPR did just what was already on the book.
Also, lol, did you really--like SERIOUSLY--believe CDPR's claims of them being the good guys? How naïve do you have to be to believe that?
Common everyone if really sincere agrees Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 achieved a new high when it comes to releasing a bad product far surpassing the other have done in the past.
I can somewhat forgive a online mode with pay walls and store or dlc not delivered while i can play the single player mode fine and its a good experience.
With Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 you only had one mode multiplayer for F76 and single player mode for C2077.
And that one mode screamed of greed, was riddle with bugs, things being unfinished, really bad performance, big false advertising.
You could not escape greed.
Its not about believing its about saying so make one company even more evil(deception goes on a greater level) then the ones which do not say this.
Common everyone if really sincere agrees Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 achieved a new high when it comes to releasing a bad product far surpassing the other have done in the past.
I can somewhat forgive a online mode with pay walls and store or dlc not delivered while i can play the single player mode fine and its a good experience.
With Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077 you only had one mode multiplayer for F76 and single player mode for C2077.
And that one mode screamed of greed, was riddle with bugs, things being unfinished, really bad performance, big false advertising.
You could not escape greed.
Its not about believing its about saying so make one company even more evil(deception goes on a greater level) then the ones which do not say this.
So, companies are not "evil" if they do not say they aren't? Wow... Guess Google is evil incarnate? Given their slogan was "Don't be evil" yet are like an all-encompassing octopus with total disregard for their users. Also, if All the Bravest does not scream greed idk what else does, lol.
It is so funny people fell for CDPR's nice words and it is even funnier how black and white you see stuff. No wonder any company can exploit people so easily with this appalling amount of naivete and detachment from reality... It is quite entertaining though.
So, companies are not "evil" if they do not say they aren't? Wow... Guess Google is evil incarnate? Given their slogan was "Don't be evil" yet are like an all-encompassing octopus with total disregard for their users. Also, if All the Bravest does not scream greed idk what else does, lol.
It is so funny people fell for CDPR's nice words and it is even funnier how black and white you see stuff. No wonder any company can exploit people so easily with this appalling amount of naivete and detachment from reality... It is quite entertaining though.
I did not say they are not evil.
I am comparing level of evil and greed.
A company that says they are good and not greedy is more evil then one which does not say this.
Companies with investors and politicians are by nature evil constructs.
I did not say they are not evil.
I am comparing level of evil and greed.
A company that says they are good and not greedy is more evil then one which does not say this.
Companies with investors and politicians are by nature evil constructs.
Then do tell me, what is evil for you and what makes you good? If CDPR is "evil" then what would make a company "good"? All companies are evil according to you, then what's absolute good in your view? More importantly, what gives you the authority to determine what is evil or good?
There's nothing I regret about pre-ordering the game, and I would and will do it again for every interesting looking game regarding Cyberpunk, Shadowrun and WoD / VtM (unless there's that kind of drama around the development like right now at Paradox /ex-Hardsuit labs and Brian Mitsoda is fired. In this case I won't).
I don't watch game trailers or reviews of others as long as I haven't played it yet, anyway, and I hope the pre-order money may help the development along, so I'll do it again.
I'm going to end that personal skirmish right here because it has no place in a public thread. Especially when it is getting hostile; the forum rules reqauire users to always treat others with kindness and respect.
So, please drop the skirmish. It isn't even really on topic anymore.
It is an assumption. Cheating and lying is not inherently bad; that is an obvious fallacy. And I am not sure how history correlates with the definition of evil? If anything it proves how relative it is as the moral relativism of some cultures is evident which furthers my point of "good" and "evil" to be extremely relative terms.
If someone lies to a thief to save someone, then what? The lie is bad because it is a lie per se? If you cheat your way up in a corrupt and unfair strata that is arbitrarily preventing you from moving forward, is it bad? Stuff is far more complex than giving arbitrary criteria like saying "X is bad no matter what" which is completely absurd.
You put an extremely simplistic view of the wealth gap; the gap is governmental, corporate and social as a whole, the rich are not the only ones at fault here. If you knew a bit of economy you would know that for a balance to exist, no force should have overwhelming regulation of another, else the other force shall be forced to adapt to not be strangled under overpowering regulation.
Seriously, do not look for overly-simplistic assumptions that do not even correlate to the very same stuff you are mentioning as evidence (history to prove evil).
I think you should walk out and try to read what others saying.
It's really weird that I said not you say yes. We are not come here to compare the voice.
While you start talking does cheating and lying always bad, it's tricky sophistry.
I never said bad.
And I never trying to talk about if there is pure good or bad.
We are talking about pre-order, and the cheating and lying about it, and why people complain about it, and why people should or shouldn't.
The only things never exist is objective good or bad.
I said history because it's what happened last 20 years. The rules about let customers complain is on the employee handbook, open.
About economy, have you read all my post at this thread? I mentioned I have degree, so don't say it's overly-simplistic, I'm trying to make the things much easy to understand. I can use model and math analysis which I'm sure you can't read, actually I use little above and you obviously not read, you want it?
Don't play with me.
