Johnny + V relationship is poorly written [Spoilers]

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Not unless you are a stealthy hacker who can nautralize entire squad in a mere seconds without anyone getting killed, and pass unnoticed to the Mikoshi. You know, like a thief, the title that V him/herself bring up several times during the whole game. But sure, having high disposition with a digitalized mind of a mass murderer, to be able to go solo as to not put anyone at risk is so much more logical.

As for the rest, Johnny did all of this of his own volition because he wanted revenge. It doesn't matter if it was Militech that provided the nuke or Arasaka who prevented the bomb from going all the way down. It was Johnny who set all of this in motion, because he thought that sacrificing thousands of people for his own reasons is ok. If you dabble with a thing like nuclear bomb it doesn't really matter if your itention is to just "rock the foundation" - you are using the tool of mass destruction with an enormous potential of taking lives. Not seeing a possible consequences of your actions if something goes not according to plan is not and shouldn't be an excuse. It's like with thief who when being caught on act by the resident of the house he/she is robbing in panic kills said resident. It doesn't matter that he/she just wanted to rob the place and disappear.

sacrificing thousands of Arasaka employees? whom were sent a message to evacuate the tower? Who are Part of group who have literally spread bioplagues through major cities, dropped orbital meteorites on people, a land war, tanks in middle America, and battles in the middle of the streets of night city?

you also realize Alt kills everyone in the building once you plug her in right? If you side with hanako, Arasaka has a huge cleansing where yorinobu's faction is essentially eliminated (one of the 3 largest factions in Arasaka)

Regardless, you the superhacker destabilized the corporate balance, and it is suggested a new corporate war between Arasaka and Militech is a likely result. Do you take the same responsibility you hold Johnny to? I mean at least in Johnny's time it ended a huge war, V the only goal was to save his/her own life.

 

[Czembro]

sacrificing thousands of Arasaka employees? whom were sent a message to evacuate the tower? Who are Part of group who have literally spread bioplagues through major cities, dropped orbital meteorites on people, a land war, tanks middles, and battles in the middle of the streets of night city?

Um, how about thousands cyvilians? Hello, he detonated a nuclear bomb in the city center of great metropolis. If not the immediate blast, the radioactive poisoning would still kill a lot of people in the city.

you also realize Alt kills everyone in the building once you plug her in right? If you side with hanako, Arasaka has a huge cleansing where yorinobu's faction is essentially eliminated (one of the 3 largest factions in Arasaka)

Regardless, you the superhacker destabilized the corporate balance, and it is suggested a new corporate war between Arasaka and Militech is a likely result. Do you take the same responsibility you hold Johnny to? I mean at least in Johnny's time it ended a huge war, V the only goal was to save his/her own life.

Alt doesn't say anything about killing everyone prior to the raid. V have no control over her and if my V would know that she wants to do that, he would try to talk her out of this or convince her to just neutralize them without killing.

If in the future the consequences of the destorying of Mikoshi would mean the death of thousands then yes, V should take the responsibility fo this. As of now going stealth solo is the best option and as you said, a possibility of the corporate war is only implied, not written in stone. As far as we know, it could very well end with complete erasure of Arasaka and no war whatsoever.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Um, how about thousands cyvilians? Hello, he detonated a nuclear bomb in the city center of great metropolis. If not the immediate blast, the radioactive poisoning would still kill a lot of people in the city.


Alt doesn't say anything about killing everyone prior to the raid. V have no control over her and if my V would know that she wants to do that, he would try to talk her out of this or convince her to just neutralize them without killing.

If in the future the consequences of the destorying of Mikoshi would mean the death of thousands then yes, V should take the responsibility fo this. As of now going stealth solo is the best option and as you said, a possibility of the corporate war is only implied, not written in stone. As far as we know, it could very well end with complete erasure of Arasaka and no war whatsoever.

he didnt intend to kill the civillians, just like you didn't intend for alt to kill everyone in the building. But sometimes when you use a powerful force it doesn't go as you planned.

Also. Johnny does take responsibility, thats why he never tells V any of the context, And never claims it wasn't his fault. But in reality, its not really an accurate representation of what happened. Partially he still has to think of himself as the center of the story

To be clear, I'm not saying Johnny didnt mess up, or wasn't part of one of the horrible events in cyberpunk history. I'm just saying he wasn't a crazy terrorist trying to kill innocents, any more than V is a terrorist trying to kill innocents.

 

[Czembro]

he didnt intend to kill the civillians, just like you didn't intend for alt to kill everyone in the building. But sometimes when you use a powerful force it doesn't go as you planned.

Also. Johnny does take responsibility, thats why he never tells V any of the context, And never claims it wasn't his fault. But in reality, its not really an accurate representation of what happened. Partially he still has to think of himself as the center of the story

To be clear, I'm not saying Johnny didnt mess up, or wasn't part of one of the horrible events in cyberpunk history. I'm just saying he wasn't a crazy terrorist trying to kill innocents, any more than V is a terrorist trying to kill innocents.

How can you intend to detonate a nuclear bomb in the city center and not be a crazy terrorist trying to kill innocents? I mean, do you think that Johnny doesn't know how nuclear bomb works? That he's an idiot? Because it's either that or he bloody well knew that his actions will end up with thousands civilians dead. And this is also why his actions and V's bringing Alt inside Arasaka Tower can't be really compared. The results of detonating a nuclear bomb are very well known while V couldn't at that moment know what Alt will do. From his/her perspective, Alt was just suppose to help them, which isn't the same as killing everyone. I (and V by extention) was pissed when she did that because I (and V) hadn't agreed on that.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

From his/her perspective, Alt was just suppose to help them, which isn't the same as killing everyone. I (and V by extention) was pissed when she did that because I (and V) hadn't agreed on that.

Exactly what I told myself during my very first save... Help of Alt wasn't really such a good idea. I have releasing a monster
And for jhonny, i said in a GIG (i don't remember which, maybe the one where you have to install a malware on 6th street server)
"another good reason to atomize this city"

 

[AikoHayashi]

How can you intend to detonate a nuclear bomb in the city center and not be a crazy terrorist trying to kill innocents? I mean, do you think that Johnny doesn't know how nuclear bomb works? That he's an idiot? Because it's either that or he bloody well knew that his actions will end up with thousands civilians dead. And this is also why his actions and V's bringing Alt inside Arasaka Tower can't be really compared. The results of detonating a nuclear bomb are very well known while V couldn't at that moment know what Alt will do. From his/her perspective, Alt was just suppose to help them, which isn't the same as killing everyone. I (and V by extention) was pissed when she did that because I (and V) hadn't agreed on that.

I'm not a nuclear specialist but probably if the nuke was detonated at the base of the building the destruction of the building would prevent the spreading of the radiation.

Night City Holocaust

The Night City Holocaust, also known as the Arasaka Headquarters (AHQ) Bombing or AHQ Disaster, was a nuclear disaster in Night City that occurred on August 20, 2023. During the Fourth Corporate War, on August 20 2023, a Militech incursion team led by Morgan Blackhand and Johnny Silverhand...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

"On August 20, 2023, an incursion team led by Solo Morgan Blackhand and Rockerboy Johnny Silverhand attempted an infiltration mission to steal/destroy the Arasaka Secure Reliquary Database inside Arasaka Tower in Night City. During the assault, an area denial nuclear device, or "pocket nuke" was planned to be detonated in the building, with the planned area to absorb the impact of the blast and prevent massive destruction.[2] However, due to interference by Arasaka and Adam Smasher, the nuclear device prematurely detonated on the 120th floor, 366 meters above the ground, obliterating Corpo Plaza and a large portion of City Center, and scattering radioactive fallout across the rest of Night City. The blast instantly incinerated over 12,000 people in the vicinity of Arasaka Tower and fatally injured upwards of half a million more. Another quarter million died in the resulting aftermath over weeks and months.[1]"

 

[Czembro]

I'm not a nuclear specialist but probably if the nuke was detonated at the base of the building the destruction of the building would prevent the spreading of the radiation.

Night City Holocaust

The Night City Holocaust, also known as the Arasaka Headquarters (AHQ) Bombing or AHQ Disaster, was a nuclear disaster in Night City that occurred on August 20, 2023. During the Fourth Corporate War, on August 20 2023, a Militech incursion team led by Morgan Blackhand and Johnny Silverhand...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

"On August 20, 2023, an incursion team led by Solo Morgan Blackhand and Rockerboy Johnny Silverhand attempted an infiltration mission to steal/destroy the Arasaka Secure Reliquary Database inside Arasaka Tower in Night City. During the assault, an area denial nuclear device, or "pocket nuke" was planned to be detonated in the building, with the planned area to absorb the impact of the blast and prevent massive destruction.[2] However, due to interference by Arasaka and Adam Smasher, the nuclear device prematurely detonated on the 120th floor, 366 meters above the ground, obliterating Corpo Plaza and a large portion of City Center, and scattering radioactive fallout across the rest of Night City. The blast instantly incinerated over 12,000 people in the vicinity of Arasaka Tower and fatally injured upwards of half a million more. Another quarter million died in the resulting aftermath over weeks and months.[1]"

As I said before, when you are dealing with something like nuclear bomb you can't just say "if I detonate the bomb exactly the way I want to then everything goes fine, but otherwise it's not my fault". Nuclear bomb is a well know tool of mass destruction. Unless it's detonated on a complete wasteland, underground or underwater there will always be consequences in human lives. Detonating nuclear bomb in city center and hoping that no one will get hurt is just stupid.

 

[simon_brooke]

He saved V's life, in some way. But very metaphorically, it wasn't obvious to me.

I agree with the various people who've said that Johnny actually does save V's life several times. Every time you're on the floor, it's essentially Johnny so scrapes you up. BUT, it's not just your life you're saving. It's Johnny's life, too. When you die, he dies (again). So he has a very strong selfish motivation for keeping you alive.

To become friends with someone you need more than living together. Furthermore, the friendship begins abruptly -- like the tumbler switch.

The common feelings and memories are also a doubtful explanation -- it's not shown, how the Johnny's memories could change V's opinion. The previous flashback with Alt was another one where Johnny was a dick.

This. Johnny is utterly a dick, to you and also to Alt, Kerry, Rogue, and pretty much everyone else he interacts with. He's even nasty about Judy, which takes some doing! And yes, after Alt is dead, he is upset about it and his regret does seem genuine, but he never said a kind or respectful thing to her while she was alive (I mean, I'm trying to think back through all the dialogue choices here, but my feeling is that I wanted Johnny to treat Alt better, and there weren't any options which would allow me to do this).

I mean, yes, he has PTSD, as many combat veterans have, and you can maybe cut him some slack for that. And perhaps, too, you could argue that he started to change when Alt died...

Spoiler

(although, from what you learn when you let Johnny take control of your body to take Rogue on a date, he doesn't seem to have treated Rogue any better, even after Alt was out of the picture).

So no. One of these days I will do the runthrough where you hand over your body to Johnny at the end, to let him live while you die, just to explore the writing. But I do NOT feel that Johnny in any way earns that ending. He does (or at least can, depending on how you interact with him) mellow a bit towards the end, but he is still, always, an utter raving narcissistic egomaniac arsehole. Charismatic, but ultimately hollow.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

How can you intend to detonate a nuclear bomb in the city center and not be a crazy terrorist trying to kill innocents? I mean, do you think that Johnny doesn't know how nuclear bomb works? That he's an idiot? Because it's either that or he bloody well knew that his actions will end up with thousands civilians dead. And this is also why his actions and V's bringing Alt inside Arasaka Tower can't be really compared. The results of detonating a nuclear bomb are very well known while V couldn't at that moment know what Alt will do. From his/her perspective, Alt was just suppose to help them, which isn't the same as killing everyone. I (and V by extention) was pissed when she did that because I (and V) hadn't agreed on that.

the bomb was supposed to be detonated in the basement of Arasaka tower underground, It was a micro nuke, if it had gone according to plan, only the forces in arasaka tower who did not evacuate would have died. And everyone working in Arasaka was essentially a part of a military force at that point. The basement they were attacking was a tacitical target.

Alt told V if she had access to mikoshi, it would not exist. V brought a deadly AI who said she has been trying to destroy mikoshi for years to mikoshi. V never discussed her plan, or intent, other than alt telling you if it were up to her, mikoshi would cease to exist.

You basically brought an untested, uncontrollable and powerful AI force into arasaka tower and NC's citinet/datapool. I think netwatch would say you were taking just as big a risk as Johnny did.

 

[Czembro]

the bomb was supposed to be detonated in the basement of Arasaka tower underground, It was a micro nuke, if it had gone according to plan, only the forces in arasaka tower who did not evacuate would have died. And everyone working in Arasaka was essentially a part of a military force at that point. The basement they were attacking was a tacitical target.

Alt told V if she had access to mikoshi, it would not exist. V brought a deadly AI who said she has been trying to destroy mikoshi for years to mikoshi. V never discussed her plan, or intent, other than alt telling you if it were up to her, mikoshi would cease to exist.

You basically brought an untested, uncontrollable and powerful AI force into arasaka tower and NC's citinet/datapool. I think netwatch would say you were taking just as big a risk as Johnny did.

So Johnny's an idiot, cause he wanted to detonate the bomb in the basement by droping it all the way down from the roof and haven't seen a potential risk that during the time of the fall, which he had no controll over, something can go terribly wrong putting at risk thosands of innocent lives. Glad that we sorted that out.

And Alt is still a less dangerous option than nuclear bomb, because in case of some duck up she wouldn't suddenly start killing civilians in the city, something that nuclear bomb actually did.

 

[Didacgomez]

So Johnny's an idiot, cause he wanted to detonate the bomb in the basement by droping it all the way down from the roof and haven't seen a potential risk that during the time of the fall, which he had no controll over, something can go terribly wrong putting at risk thosands of innocent lives. Glad that we sorted that out.

And Alt is still a less dangerous option than nuclear bomb, because in case of some duck up she wouldn't suddenly start killing civilians in the city, something that nuclear bomb actually did.

At least we improve from "terrorist" to "idiot"-which I agree but not for using a Nuke, just for getting involved in a Corpo War even if it was for vengeance-.
Still V assaulting Arasaka Tower he/she had no plan, no clue, no control of what was going to happen also looks like an "idiot" (Rogue and Panam/Saul at least sketched something in a piece of paper,Hanako has a clear plan).

You basically brought an untested, uncontrollable and powerful AI force into arasaka tower and NC's citinet/datapool. I think netwatch would say you were taking just as big a risk as Johnny did.

Completely agree, she is the equivalent of the Nuke in Johnny raid... once you plug her in you have 0 control of what was going to do... you just trust (as Silverhand did) that there would be no problems.

 

[maniak6767]

...Plot twist: Johnny and V are same person between heist and grand finale ...like Tyler Durden/Narrator, from Fight Club for example or dr jekyll and mr hyde.
Dynamic between personalities is based on fact that Johnny is romantic hero and V is Conradian hero.
Johnny is almost quoting Joseph Conrad in Arasaka ending about "betraying yourself" and Araska ending "back to Earth" is about V fully merged with Johnny being new thing. When V is talking to Johnny she'/he is talking with himself/herself. That's it. What you see in game is less subtle way of telling story of hero with two personalities.
Johnny is unreliable narrator, also it's concept not new in storytelling...You see just Johnny's dreams, and you know how correct dreams (or memories) can be...
This game is also not Fight Club, where hero having two personalities is big reveal of story (plottwist like this is not point of Cyberpunk) or Heart of Darkness, where Marlow being unreliable narrator can hint that Kurz is his alter ego (that would be to subtle for videogame). In Cyberpunk 2077 you know from beggining: hero has two personalites and he can overcome it one way or another, so you can't judge relationship between V and Johnny as relationship between two people. it's just up to player how he will "process" this "relationship".
I've watched GITS lately (again) and what is going on with V and Johnny is pretty similar to what happened to Motoko/Puppet Master in the finale of GITS, they merged and became new entity.

 

[Czembro]

At least we improve from "terrorist" to "idiot"

From the very start it was either one or another - Johnny is an idiot if he thinks that he can detonate nuclear bomb in the center of the city without without risking human lives, or he is a terrorist if he doesn't care about risking people's lives. There is no in-between.

Completely agree, she is the equivalent of the Nuke in Johnny raid... once you plug her in you have 0 control of what was going to do... you just trust (as Silverhand did) that there would be no problems.

No, she isn't. There is no blast, no radioactive poisoning. She isn't a threat to anyone outside the Arasaka Tower, she could even just neutralize people inside the building instead of killing them. Her actions might have an economic impact on the city, but sie isn't straight up killing civilians. Trusting in an digitalized version of someone in AI form, who clearly see the value of life and knows the conscept of ones soul, is not the equivalent of trusting in that the inanimate nuclear bomb will go off exactly as planned.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

From the very start it was either one or another - Johnny is an idiot if he thinks that he can detonate nuclear bomb in the center of the city without without risking human lives, or he is a terrorist if he doesn't care about risking people's lives. There is no in-between.


No, she isn't. There is no blast, no radioactive poisoning. She isn't a threat to anyone outside the Arasaka Tower, she could even just neutralize people inside the building instead of killing them. Her actions might have an economic impact on the city, but sie isn't straight up killing civilians. Trusting in an digitalized version of someone in AI form, who clearly see the value of life and knows the conscept of ones soul, is not the equivalent of trusting in that the inanimate nuclear bomb will go off exactly as planned.

actually she is a threat to everyone in night city. And the effects of the net aren't limited to just economics(which also kills people). Ignoring all the infrastructure, transportation, and medical things the net is connected to, Once she is in the same net as anyone she can kill them(a movable soulkiller program is entwined with her engram). Access to Arasaka mikoshi =access to citinet and the datapool=access to smaller networks

Do you know about the datakrash and the rabids? Do you know why citinet and networks are airgapped and heavily monitored at key entry points? You realize the whole plotline in the voodooboys part was that netwatch was trying to prevent the VDBs from making deals with Alt, and being a vector for rogue AIs to get into secure human networks? You know, if you rat them out to netwatch, she kills all the VDBs because netwatch "might" have snuck an attack into one of them?

Alt says herself she has changed and isn't who she once was. You say you trust Alt as a person, but you know almost nothing about her, V has had like two conversations, none of which suggests she is particularly concerned with human life.


I'm not saying alt will kill everyone, but V was gambling with virtually no info, with what was essentially the other big catastrophe of the 4rth Corporate war, the destruction of the internet, and rogue AIs.

and lastly she did literally kill civilians, unlike in Johnny's time where arasaka was an active military force, the people in arasaka in 2077 were civilians(there was no announced war, or major conflict), even the security were just people doing a job of securing the building. They also have tons of support staff that aren't paid bodyguards.


now maybe you could say they were complicit in Arasaka's wrong doings, but by that metric, almost everyone in NC is guilty.

V specifically doesn't really have a high horse to sit on here.

 

[Czembro]

actually she is a threat to everyone in night city. And the effects of the net aren't limited to just economics(which also kills people). Ignoring all the infrastructure, transportation, and medical things the net is connected to, Once she is in the same net as anyone she can kill them(a movable soulkiller program is entwined with her engram). Access to Arasaka mikoshi =access to citinet and the datapool=access to smaller networks

Do you know about the datakrash and the rabids? Do you know why citinet and networks are airgapped and heavily monitored at key entry points? You realize the whole plotline in the voodooboys part was that netwatch was trying to prevent the VDBs from making deals with Alt, and being a vector for rogue AIs to get into secure human networks? You know, if you rat them out to netwatch, she kills all the VDBs because netwatch "might" have snuck an attack into one of them?

Alt says herself she has changed and isn't who she once was. You say you trust Alt as a person, but you know almost nothing about her, V has had like two conversations, none of which suggests she is particularly concerned with human life.


I'm not saying alt will kill everyone, but V was gambling with virtually no info, with what was essentially the other big catastrophe of the 4rth Corporate war, the destruction of the internet, and rogue AIs.

and lastly she did literally kill civilians, unlike in Johnny's time where arasaka was an active military force, the people in arasaka in 2077 were civilians(there was no announced war, or major conflict), even the security were just people doing a job of securing the building. They also have tons of support staff that aren't paid bodyguards.


now maybe you could say they were complicit in Arasaka's wrong doings, but by that metric, almost everyone in NC is guilty.

V specifically doesn't really have a high horse to sit on here.

You are all missing the point here - nuclear bomb is meant to kill, Alt isn't. While Johnny must have had known that what he is doing puts a lot of people in danger, because he was using something that was meant to kill, V didn't. If anything V has been deceived by alt (at least my V, a pacifist) because he didn't meant for anyone to die and there was no need for Alt to do what she did. With nuclear bomb stating that Johnny tried not to kill anyone is just silly. V could be called reckless for bringing Alt to Arasaka Tower, but he didn't actively strive for killing people with his actions, while what Johnny did was pretty much it - he knew that what he is doing kills people.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

You are all missing the point here - nuclear bomb is meant to kill, Alt isn't. While Johnny must have had known that what he is doing puts a lot of people in danger, because he was using something that was meant to kill, V didn't. If anything V has been deceived by alt (at least my V, a pacifist) because he didn't meant for anyone to die and there was no need for Alt to do what she did. With nuclear bomb stating that Johnny tried not to kill anyone is just silly. V could be called reckless for bringing Alt to Arasaka Tower, but he didn't actively strive for killing people with his actions, while what Johnny did was pretty much it - he knew that what he is doing kills people.

ok, I see your perspective, I don't fully agree.

however I am curious, what did you think alt was asking for in exchange for helping you?

 

[One-Dragon]

I'm not sure if people know this but you don't have to be nice to Johnny throughout to get the secret ending. That's simply untrue, I assume you followed an under researched guide and/or didn't test this yourself.

I'm done with my 100% walkthrough now, and there are a lot of things to discuss -- but the main one is the Johnny and V relationship line. While I liked the overall impression, there is a list of inconsistencies I cannot solve for myself:
- Johnny and V become friends quickly and suddenly. Johnny poses a threat to V at the beginning, and continues to be a dickhead further in the storyline, but at the one moment you get a bunch of friendly dialogue options. Furthermore, some of them are mandatory for the secret ending, while there was no space to actually change your mind.
- Oil Fields dialogue is a pure design failure. The only right dialogue to get to the secret ending is very unobvious, leaves no space to get to it on your own and is not supported by the story. There were no events which could change your mind towards becoming friendly to him, and "The guy who saved my life" option has absolutely no background, since Johnny didn't save your life before.

While being touching and well-written itself, this dialogue doesn't fit into the story.

- After choosing to return to their body, V says that they had a different deal with Johnny and V is sorry. It definitely wasn't mentioned before, since the actual deal was to separate V from Johnny and reimplant V back.
- You cannot be mean towards Johnny from the very beginning, while having reasons for -- or you'll loose your chances for the secret ending. This issue is tied with the one mentioned before ("friends because of nothing").

You can treat Johnny as an ass literally up until the oilfields. (chugging pills/ ignoring him/telling him to shut up and refusing to smoke etc) You also don't have to select "the guy who saved my life".

The ONLY reason you should even go to the oilfields is IF you are willing to fulfil Johnny's request and that's if you perceive him as saving your life when you pass out and/or change your opinion of him in other side quests.

The main dialogue line that counts is you have to give him a second chance (you can even perceive this as manipulating him to be cooperative). He literally comes up with the plan to storm Arasaka Tower by himself and surmises the location of Mikoshi based on information in 2020 and the meeting with Hanako, not even Corpo V could figure out where Mikoshi was and was shocked at its location.

 

[Liquidcyberpunk]

The game has around 80 side quests, 86 GIGS, 17 cyberpsychos, 156 NCPD Scanner Hustle Locations (112 Assaults, 17 Organized Crimes, 27 Reported Crimes) and then we have the main missions. While NCPD are basic, all the rest include dialogs and etc. I think it is rather difficult to organize all dialogs and triggers and to keep into account what V has already done or not. Yeah, it can break the immersion, but I'm still glad that there is so much to do in the game.

I feel the same.

 

[Moonroccs]

its a side quest.. if you didnt care about johnny you wouldnt have done it. only friends help friends thus why theyre friendly. come on man its not a main quest so you kinda messed up anti johnny V if you even did chippin in and didnt like johnny. if you didnt like johnny why even do anything for him? you kinda screwed up your own immersion dude.
if i didnt care about johnny and didnt want to be his friend why would i help or do anything he ask? ask you self that.
it has nothing to do with the relic and only about helping johnny get revenge aka help my friend by taking out his enemy. writers didnt nothing wrong. you just took the wrong path because you broke your immersion.

 

[bcraig6010]

I've been hard on this game, very hard, but I have to disagree with the OP. Then I realized his/her mistake. It's not that their relationship is poorly written, it's not. But kind of like V and Jackie's relationship, it was poorly directed and a lot was cut and shortened that would have made the relationship work a lot better.

As I see it, when Keanu wanted more lines, instead of trying to figure out how to do it, and compromising with him, they bowed to his wishes and crammed his extra lines in without much thought to the story. This created the issues with Johnny's story seeming at time, not to make much sense. One minutes he's a complete asshole, the next he's your buddy, and the next he's an asshole again, without any real reason.

It's not that he's poorly written, he's not. You can see true brilliance behind his lines and his story. But they just gave Keanu extra lines, he read them as they directed him too, and they just shoved them into the story... somewhere.

The ending is again a product of the bad direction and lack of time. It's why certain endings are way more fleshed out then other endings. They just realized they wanted to get the game out the door by the end of the year, and decided to just finish where the game was, regardless of completeness.

It makes it seem poorly written, but really its just the managers and directors worried more about money then about the game and the players and their employees and screwing it up. Every problem in the game can be led back to this. Great developers, great voice actors, great story... poor execution by the directors and managers.

Almost like it was rushed and not thought out?! Hmmmmmmm

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2021

That is the problem from the players who don't role play. They don't project themselves into the character and don't play "honestly".

Oh please, spare the sanctimonious judging where everyone who doesn't think the way you do doesn't role-play...

Maybe.. JUST maybe.. some of us..
get assaulted by johnny...
have him ridicule and insult Judy..
ridicule and shame and insult Judy's friends and workers of Clouds....
actively wants us not to help them as they are just "whores" and have no value to him...

maybe some of us arent going to be besties with such a piece of $%$% who views sex workers as non=people for ridicule only and shoudln't help judy
even if hes in our heads... kinda like a roommate or college suitemate.. you're not automatically going to besties 4 life!! just because of close proximity. Sometimes close proximity bring scorn and derision.

You like him and besties.. great....
but just because I have a differing view doesn't mean I don't or can't role play
"

That is the problem from the players who don't role play. They don't project themselves into the character and don't play "honestly"."