Thoughts on Masquerade Ball (and Nilfgaard in general)

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One last remark regarding Ball + Usurper Emperor, because I think people are missing the point. It's not just the sheer number of points that it generates, it's also the flexibility. NG can feasibly win a short r3 on the basis of this combo alone after being bled and managed to survive r2. Combos like this one are what make NG decks so consistent and powerful.
 
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And it is weaker than NR, SY, SK scenarios that generates more points
That depends on the poison target a lot and can make a huge difference.

so the problem is not in MB, but how DeWett triggers double poison, drawing card from deck and boosting it by 8, being played again by CoupDegrace and Gorthur Gvaed
If you mean one turn double proc, I agree. But to avoid this you would have to remove Aristocrat tag from Roderick, first of all. Or from every other golds. The Joachim double proc ability is at least rng to some point.

The Deploy ability of Joachim is quite points balanced though as it gives you a unit (most usually 4 pts body) + 8 pts to you as well as 4 pts to your opponent for 10 provs. So usually like 8 pts for 10 provs effectively for the first instance of usage in a round. Being "Coup de Graced" he gives you effectively 3 pts more (for the 3 pts damage of CdG), so usually like 19 pts for 19 provs in total. Of course bringing you potentially valuable units (engines / locks / ...) but with a risk of bringing you the "wrong" card at wrong time at the same time as well. I admit I can see a problem in being able to play him 4 times thoug, on the other hand it's never a guaranteed thing. It requires specific drawing, some setup and dependong on circumstances is not allways that beneficial.

This is how ...
From NG perspective, this is not like "auto-guarantee", it's in fact quite situational and rng dependent. Sometimes opponent can play around, sometimes not. I understand players runnig decks that are quite unfavored against certain NG decks being frustrated with these matchups, but it's just one perspective and just half of the truth. You should allways take a look from both sides. I see NG as a very flexible high reward potential faction that is hard to master though, as there are usually so many options almost every turn. Meaning there is allways a path to win as well as so many paths to screw actually.

I think the current metabreaker is a bit too much, but I¨m not sure it's the leader to be blamed nor most of it's cards on their own. Maybe it's more about all those possible interactions together in one package.
 
As I said before, 140 provision vs 200 provision, literally unwinnable, low effort high result, one fraction game, small indie company

PS: He used DoublePlay on Tempering and received 1 point treant from my leader ability as well [...]
 

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Lined pockets the most op? It is highly unfavored against NG multi-Joachims. They can even play garbage on round 1 and then round 2 drop the Ball, assimillate engines, Joachims...and still keep a ton of points for round 3 to win easily, their deck is more consistent with all the thinning.
 
Lined pockets the most op? It is highly unfavored against NG multi-Joachims.
May be, may be not. There will (should) always be some matchups you are unfavored even with the "strongest deck", this is not a good measure imo. Statistics showed the Syndicate faction to have the best winrates last season, I believe. Although I admit statistics are usually somewhat half-prooving without proper interpretation.

Nevertheless the point of this thread was to discuss the Masquerade Ball and possible benefits of it beeing reworked for the game and for the NG faction. Not to find out what is the most OP deck nowadays.
 
I agree NG needs more diversity.
And Ball is clearly overused so i would agree a rework for the card is great (except i dont want a type of rework lockdown got)

However i dont think other decks of NG need buffs but more support. For example soldier swarm needs more support and emhyr is a great inclusion for a Spy deck but that deck also need more support
 
As I said before, 140 provision vs 200 provision, literally unwinnable, low effort high result, one fraction game, small indie company

PS: He used DoublePlay on Tempering and received 1 point treant from my leader ability as well [...]
Geralt:Yrden FTW. One card.... You win, congrats!

Honestly, is your opponent just supposed to let you win because you think you built a better deck? Has anyone done the math on what that Conan O'Brien witcher you're about to play is worth in the last three turns? Should we just build a deck that lets that happen everytime? Seriously....
 
PS: He used DoublePlay on Tempering and received 1 point treant from my leader ability as well [...]

To be precise, he got the treant token from the symbiosis triggered thanks to the Hamadryad, that as I assume, he pulled from your deck with Cantarella. Your leader ability did not take part in it.
 
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I think Ball is suffering from "identity crisis" - it synergizes with everything (poison/statuses, spyes and assimilate) and the same can be said about the cards that have the best synergies with it (Joachim, Roderik and Usurper). Synergies are a good thing, but everything has to be done in moderation - if a card works super well with every archetipe, it becomes auto-included in every deck. This would be bad even for a bronze card and when it comes to huge, expensive, deck-defining card like scenario or evolving card, it just gets 10 times worse.
I think the only reasonable thing to do is to remove aristocrat tags from Joachim, Roderic and Usurper. This is not the final solution, this is just the start. Many NG cards have similar problems - they are just too good at what they do and the rest of their archetipes pales in comparison.
 
OK. Seems like the work has been done by now. MB is not gonna be triggered by Aristocrats played on the opponent's side of the board any more. What do you guys mean about this (significant) change?
 
The change will drop Ball out of the meta, is my guess.
It definitely won't be in 9 out 10 NG decks anymore.
 
I still think it's autoinclude in just about every deck.
I mean, I can still see planty decent aristocrats there, but:

1) I really think, the main strength came from that MB + disloyal Aristocrats combo. At least in case of those "top meta" decks.
2) If this change leads to including other (golden) cards, it still may kinda fullfill the purpose of bringing more variability into NG decks anyway. On the other hand, there is allways an option to include "just some" cheap bronzes, but in that case, this would probably mean lower tempo plays after your MB, taking away some of the power of this card once again.

While I'm not sure this change will wipe the card out of meta compleatly (but that surely wasn't the goal), I clearly see it as a remarkable nerf to the card, especially for the same 15 provs.
 
The most OP deck now is probably the Lined Pockets. And that's why it's probably correct to assume it's gonna be nerfed. Than the NG metabreaker will probably become the strongest and that's why I suppose CDPR is (should be) considering nerfing it as well. But what to nerf exactly?

I can see, many people consider the quad Joachim combo the most problematic. But I have to say, I tried to run it in many decks without the Masquerade Ball (like various Assimilate, Enslave, Imprisonment or Imposter) last and this season and I have to claim, these decks are interesting, but not strong enough by any means. And by strong I mean being widely known (so your opponent knows it and can foresee whats comming) and still be strong enough to be in like tier 1 or 2 at least.

And this leads me to a "heretic" conclusion, that MASQUERADE BALL is actually the card TO BE NERFED - or better say - REWORKED. AND THE REST OF THE FACTION SHOULD BE BUFFED in fact at the same time.

Funny today I was also thinking about starting a thread about scenario's.
First I played a few games to try out some and analyze which one is the best but more importantly why?
MB came (without surprise) out on top, followed by Haunt the rest of scenario's aren't that offending.
Why is the NG scenario so OP?

1 Poison ability is very strong and it can have a very high ceiling even in 2 turns
2 NG has the best gold support for scenario

Both combined are simply 2 massive winconditions if your scenario won't get heatwaved.
Even if it gets heatwaved the NG aristocrats are still very powerful.
Fun fact is that your chance of winning in a mirror is much higher when you swap MB and replace it for Heatwave :)
Simply because you save 5 provisions meaning you can play more golds :)

But it doesn't stop with MB alone NG has some cards that totally ignore Gwent's provision system:

A Yennefer: Invocation
B Cantarella / Gorthur Gvaed

Double cross is the most played NG leader at the moment because it contributes very favorable in point output:

I The highest provision bonus of +17
2 Knowing your opponents hand can be helpful to play around things or steal strategy
3 Massive value when highrolling into a good gold card

So there is not 1 simple change to fix all we need several.
I would start with scenario's in general:

a Scenario chapter will only trigger when bronze unit is played

For NG in specific:

b Fangs of the Empire should be changed to 5 provision cost

On short term i would suggest to change below cards on long term they should change entirely:

c Yennefer Invocation: place an enemy unit at the bottom of your deck
d Gorthur Gvaed: move a card of your opponents graveyard to the bottom of their deck

As for Double cross I would prefer a leader ability that doesn't rely on a RNG-ish interaction.
This one is kind of difficult because the assimilate archetype is full of RNG which isn't interesting at all from a competitive point of view.
Of all the assimilate cards that trigger the ability Duchess informant, Vigo and Braathens are fine but the rest is just a casino which can be highly frustrating to play against.
So in short assimilate and double cross need pretty big rework
 
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I still think it's autoinclude in just about every deck.
it's too good not to be. Removal is still pretty valuable and poison has no ceiling. Ball isn't going anywhere, it'll just require players to be more strategic in using it which is how it should be. I still think poison should be reworked to work much like rupture but ah well
 
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