NCPD was fixed enough. If someone says, game is completly broken, because of police system - maybe try play this game for more than 1 hour.
NPC system is far from perfect, but traffic: number of cars and pedestrians is based of time of the day and district you are. You didn't notice it, that's ok. If you thought every single NPC will have daily routine, I have news for you: It's not Fallout 4 with 20 NPC in "town", or RDR2 with villages filled with again 20 NPC. You can "meet" hundread of thousands of NPCs during your playthrough and expectation every NPC in game will be done manually it's not only stupid, it's insane.
Well I weren't the one that said it would be in the game, but given that it's not even remotely like it, I still think that it is the main issue.
According to new CDPR interviews, Cyberpunk 2077's new real-time AI systems will allow for incredible dynamism.Thousands of NPCs will have actual daily routines throughout Night City's six districts, including a ton of robust and varied characters with cyborg implants, unique designs and animations, and day and night cycles.
This isn't a surprise. We knew about this as far back as 2016, when CD Projekt RED filed for a grant with the Polish government (which it received). Back then, CDPR laid out its ambitious plans for the game's city creation: "Comprehensive technology for the creation of 'live' cities of great scale playable in real-time, which is based on the principles of artificial intelligence and automation, and takes into account the development of innovative processes and tools supporting the creation of high-quality games with open worlds."
We've seen examples of the dynamic AI in Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay footage. AI mill about and do their jobs, talk, fight, and even kill each other, making Night City feel alive and dangerous.
Stupidity and nonsense. Read some in-game lore. Period.
In lore NCPD is weak and corrupt, they actually can't keep the order on the streets and thats why YOU have to do jobs for them.
Except when you accidentally kill someone - then they will arrive via StarTrek teleporters in full force to hunt you down.
Makes no sense.
Police system is badly designed and implemented. Actually IMO one of the worst aspects of the game.
I believe there should be something to dissuade some from playing the game as if it was GTA5. Perhaps, they could have overpowered vigilante civilians. If the police, doesn't do the job, then vigilantes would do it for them. Also, there should be some random civilians that will act as if they are police and be super overpowered and they will intervene when they see someone committing crimes and playing the game as GTA5 committing crimes. It makes sense for some civilians becoming toughened up by living and surviving in Night City and they have become so sick of the crimes being committed that they take things in their own hands. It also makes sense for civilians possessing heavy weapons. There is even gun vending machines, so why don't civilians possess heavy fire power. Some civilians should be able to fight back.
If it is simply the story or the lore, then it is such minor background that it could easily be modified. The police could be made to be corrupt but strong and don't prevent crime because police are bribed by the local gangs and by the corporations. However, there could be groups inside the NCPD who want to do the right thing and prevent crime and request V to help. The rest of the NCPD could be tough on V because V isn't bribing them and they have no issues with cracking down on crime that doesn't benefit the gangs and the corporations.
Gaining wanted levels and then circumventing the police is part of the main story of GTA5. While in CP2077, they could remove the police from the game and it would have no affect/impact on the game or the main story. You could complete the main story without ever gaining a wanted level.
NCPD was fixed enough. If someone says, game is completly broken, because of police system - maybe try play this game for more than 1 hour.
NPC system is far from perfect, but traffic: number of cars and pedestrians is based of time of the day and district you are. You didn't notice it, that's ok. If you thought every single NPC will have daily routine, I have news for you: It's not Fallout 4 with 20 NPC in "town", or RDR2 with villages filled with again 20 NPC. You can "meet" hundread of thousands of NPCs during your playthrough and expectation every NPC in game will be done manually it's not only stupid, it's insane.
Sorry, but RDR2 NPC AI is far superior to that in CP77.
If you go to Saint Denis in RDR2, you can find a a bit more than "20 NPC's", and the vast majority of them can be interacted with, and most are going about doing things. This is how to make a world feel alive and lived in.
I'm wondering: Has the NCPD's "AI" actually been developed by CDPR or was some kind of sister company responsible for it? It kinda feels like it's part of the "open world" which in many other aspects doesn't match the same quality as the well-designed, well-animated main story content...
(pure speculation)
Edit: I'd like to add that it wouldn't change the fact that I'm enjoying this game very much, because the main story is always the most important part to me.
It blows my mind that people are still argumenting that Cyberpunk is not GTA while in Mafia games you can get a ticket for speeding or driving through a red light!!
GTA is not the only game set in an open world city! If anything we should be comparing Cyberpunk and its mechanics to Mafia's, as both games are heavily story driven. Mafia games are not city rampage and are not designed around sandboxing through the city. If you break the law, the police will chase you down. THERE IS CORRUPTED POLICE IN MAFIA THAT WORKS! You can bribe them! They drive cars! They patrol the streets! How are you still making excuses for those systems in Cyberpunk if the other game has no problem with making traffic and police systems 100% functional?! It's not like they are an impossible tasks that can not be done in a story driven open world game! Wake the F up!!
Sorry, but RDR2 NPC AI is far superior to that in CP77.
If you go to Saint Denis in RDR2, you can find a a bit more than "20 NPC's", and the vast majority of them can be interacted with, and most are going about doing things. This is how to make a world feel alive and lived in.
RDR 2 AI it lights years in front of Cyberpunk 2077.
It's like comparing the brain of a bug with brain of a lion.
In Cyberpunk 2077 NPC's AI behave like a brainless zombie.
"It’s a complex simulation where thousands of agents — both human and non-human — act independently and create a somewhat believable virtual world by following rules, acting on needs and making appropriate plans. ...
NPCs in RDR2 are different. They behave more like people who operate according to certain storylines that give meaning to their actions. Characters don’t follow the same endless loop, wandering aimlessly in the virtual space. Rather, the actions they perform are determined by how they are connected with the world, via the work they carry out. By following his daily routine, we can infer that our friend Joe is a construction worker, probably unmarried and on the brink of depression. His only comfort is a bottle of whisky and the nightly exchanges with the girls at the saloon. These characters have distinct personalities enriched by mood states and the capacity to ‘remember’ events. Rockstar Games used 1200 actors to create NPCs, and wrote 80-page scripts to ensure that each character would feel multidimensional; a quasi-real person. Much like earthlings, their dialogues and actions are a complex negotiation of what NPCs ‘feel’ in the moment and what they’ve ‘experienced’ in the past.
The type of response you’ll get when engaging with NPCs depends both on who they are and how they perceive you. If your character is decorated in mud, NPCs will be less inclined to help you. If you’ve hit a character in the past, they may remember that and therefore be hostile. NPCs also respond to subtleties in facial expression and posture. It’s the attention to these apparently minor aspects that helps bridge the uncanny valley in virtual simulations. Richness in character depth reaches its peak with the gang members whom the player gets to know best. The player can familiarise themselves with these characters while chatting around the campfire, preparing meals and gathering food. Unlike any other large game I’m aware of, in RDR2 the player can interact with every single NPC, expecting a behaviour that’s tailored to the context."
It blows my mind that people are still argumenting that Cyberpunk is not GTA while in Mafia games you can get a ticket for speeding or driving through a red light!!
GTA is not the only game set in an open world city! If anything we should be comparing Cyberpunk and its mechanics to Mafia's, as both games are heavily story driven. Mafia games are not city rampage and are not designed around sandboxing through the city. If you break the law, the police will chase you down. THERE IS CORRUPTED POLICE IN MAFIA THAT WORKS! You can bribe them! They drive cars! They patrol the streets! How are you still making excuses for those systems in Cyberpunk if the other game has no problem with making traffic and police systems 100% functional?! It's not like they are an impossible tasks that can not be done in a story driven open world game! Wake the F up!!
Yes, Mafia is a better game to compare Cyberpunk to, but still, the question remains: does REDengine even lends itself to simulating car chases? Is there a roadblock (no pun intended) that prevents AI cars from performing more advanced tasks?
- when you leave your vehicle on the street, they don't know how to bypass you
- during races (Claire's questchain) your opponents don't race you, but keep teleporting behind you
As for excuses, the game doesn't push you toward engaging with its primitive police system and there's 50-120 hours of handcrafted content to enjoy. It's simply not equally important for everyone who plays this game. Yeah, it was done in other open-world games, but none of this other games had to adjust their engines to be suitable for RPG systems.
OK, the more I think about it the more I realise that the Police mechanics are simply not in the game at all.
There is no police cars patrolling the streets because if there were, players could interact with them. Here are some simple examples of player interacting with police patrol:
1. firing at them
2. ramming with your vehicle
3. committing crime while police visible on screen
4. trying to hijack a police car
All of those would require the police to react in a believable and logical manner. A manner that somebody would have to code into the game. No laws of physics or engine limitations are to blame. I think it's that CD Projekt fucked up the production cycle big time and there was simply no time to actually make the city work.
OK, the more I think about it the more I realise that the Police mechanics are simply not in the game at all.
There is no police cars patrolling the streets because if there were, players could interact with them. Here are some simple examples of player interacting with police patrol:
1. firing at them
2. ramming with your vehicle
3. committing crime while police visible on screen
4. trying to hijack a police car
All of those would require the police to react in a believable and logical manner. A manner that somebody would have to code into the game. No laws of physics or engine limitations are to blame. I think it's that CD Projekt fucked up the production cycle big time and there was simply no time to actually make the city work.
It was quite obvious from day1 that there is no police system,but i don't think they screwed it is simply that it was never intended. I don't remember CDPR saying "sandbox",and "open world" is not a "sandbox".
What happened i think, is that they realized too late that (some) people was going to go in a murder spree with civilian NPCs and they didn't wanted this to happen (stream platforms) so they spawned police as a fix( they kind of told beforehand in some interviews that "cyberpunk doesn't play as gta").
It could have been solved not allowing to fire in the open world ,but you have gangs ... and many quests can be approached in different ways so how you calculate where the player can fire a weapon (sniper rifles,grenades...)?
It could have been added? Maybe,I don't know the limitations of RED engine. But why waste effort in something that is not the core of the game? Would be added in a future-sequel probably,i doubt in cp2077-?,could be.
Well, if you don't have an intention to do something time,people,skills are irrelevant...whether it was lack of intention or lack of competence is pure speculation. But since it seems that we agree, that there is no systems in place at all seems more lack of intention(to me).
I'm wondering: Has the NCPD's "AI" actually been developed by CDPR or was some kind of sister company responsible for it? It kinda feels like it's part of the "open world" which in many other aspects doesn't match the same quality as the well-designed, well-animated main story content...
(pure speculation)
Edit: I'd like to add that it wouldn't change the fact that I'm enjoying this game very much, because the main story is always the most important part to me.
I don't think that is the issue, but more that they have the most basic one you can imagine.
Along the lines of:
1. Player does something bad
2. Spawn police near player
3. Police attack player
There is no patrol routes, starting location, noise, environment/situation taken into account.
Also I don't think anyone expect the average policemen to have as deep AI as the main story characters. But they have none, whatsoever.
This short video is from a streamer, kinda showing the issue:
The policeman doesn't register what is going on as hostile, it could be interesting to see what would have happened if the streamer had shot a pedestrian.
This is a video of me testing the pedestrian AI, again there is like no AI to speak of:
So how do you make the police seem more natural, when they basically can't do anything?
This short video is from a streamer, kinda showing the issue:
The policeman doesn't register what is going on as hostile, it could be interesting to see what would have happened if the streamer had shot a pedestrian.
I know this place
(I can said, there is epic overture with bad stats in this assault)
Policeman don't react, it's a tyger's claw prisoner. He react like all civilian in all the Assault, that is to say not at all.
Well I weren't the one that said it would be in the game, but given that it's not even remotely like it, I still think that it is the main issue.
According to new CDPR interviews, Cyberpunk 2077's new real-time AI systems will allow for incredible dynamism.Thousands of NPCs will have actual daily routines throughout Night City's six districts, including a ton of robust and varied characters with cyborg implants, unique designs and animations, and day and night cycles.
This isn't a surprise. We knew about this as far back as 2016, when CD Projekt RED filed for a grant with the Polish government (which it received). Back then, CDPR laid out its ambitious plans for the game's city creation: "Comprehensive technology for the creation of 'live' cities of great scale playable in real-time, which is based on the principles of artificial intelligence and automation, and takes into account the development of innovative processes and tools supporting the creation of high-quality games with open worlds."
We've seen examples of the dynamic AI in Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay footage. AI mill about and do their jobs, talk, fight, and even kill each other, making Night City feel alive and dangerous.
Another repeat of the same article that references a reddit post -> that blatantly mistranslates a german article of an interview that misinterprets what the developer is talking about.
Here's the retranslated version of it if you're actually interested and not just here to spread the same misinformation that's been plaguing social media for months on end.
More like it wasn't the focus of the game, similar to the wanted system in Elder Scrolls/ Fallout/Vamps - The Masquerade/Deus Ex compared to GTA, Watchdogs, Mafia, RDR etc.
Some games use their game world as a means of travel between the game's activities without focusing much on the sandbox aspect of it (TES and Fallout are a hybrid of this while also offering a limited sandbox element), but I would ultimately agree that it would improve the game if any of those elements were implemented.
Though I don't believe it detracts from the overall experience which is strongly reliant on the missions and narrative elements rather than emergent gameplay.
We'll see if they will shift this focus or adapt their design philosophy in their future titles, I'd love a balanced sanbox with a strong narrative to drive the main quests and side quests in an RPG setting.
As it stands now it works like an open world Deus Ex game, does anyone remember the wanted system in that series?
I'm seriously struggling to remember anything regarding a wanted system in any of the Deus Ex games...
Another repeat of the same article that references a reddit post -> that blatantly mistranslates a german article of an interview that misinterprets what the developer is talking about.
Here's the retranslated version of it if you're actually interested and not just here to spread the same misinformation that's been plaguing social media for months on end.
I don't see why you would defend it, but here is another interview:
While CD Projekt RED has finally revealed the first gameplay of the upcoming title, much is still under wraps. In order to try and extract more nuggets of information, DualShockers talked to Quest Designer Patrick Mills about all sorts of things Cyberpunk.
G: Since you have a certain amount of freedom in designing your character, do the quests actually recognize your choices in creating your V beyond the obvious gender choice? Maybe someone could call you a “blondie” if you have blonde hair or something like that?
PM: Absolutely, and not even just your appearance, but the choices that you make will also affect things later. To make up an example — this is not an actual thing — maybe the way that you solve a quest… If you complete it without a fight, and later on you need help from some people… If you solved that quest by fighting, those people will remember it and say “Actually, you shot one of my friends last week, I’m not gonna help you out.” On the other hand, if you didn’t fight, maybe they’re going to help you out.
But yeah, also the way you dress, the way you customize your character, we want the world to respond to these things.
This is from early development, so fair enough that it didn't get into the game. But it does show their original intention.
Now this is from the 48 minute gameplay video released by CDPR (If it doesn't start the correct place, scroll it to 12.45 - 13.20) and you will hear them say it directly:
I don't see why you would defend it, but here is another interview:
While CD Projekt RED has finally revealed the first gameplay of the upcoming title, much is still under wraps. In order to try and extract more nuggets of information, DualShockers talked to Quest Designer Patrick Mills about all sorts of things Cyberpunk.
G: Since you have a certain amount of freedom in designing your character, do the quests actually recognize your choices in creating your V beyond the obvious gender choice? Maybe someone could call you a “blondie” if you have blonde hair or something like that?
PM: Absolutely, and not even just your appearance, but the choices that you make will also affect things later. To make up an example — this is not an actual thing — maybe the way that you solve a quest… If you complete it without a fight, and later on you need help from some people… If you solved that quest by fighting, those people will remember it and say “Actually, you shot one of my friends last week, I’m not gonna help you out.” On the other hand, if you didn’t fight, maybe they’re going to help you out.
But yeah, also the way you dress, the way you customize your character, we want the world to respond to these things.
This is from early development, so fair enough that it didn't get into the game. But it does show their original intention.
Now this is from the original 48 gameplay video released by CDPR (If it doesn't start the correct place, scroll it to 12.45 - 13.20) and you will hear them say it directly:
You're mistaking my intent and we're veering off topic here but I'll humor you.
Is it by any chance the same gameplay demo that was not originally meant for public viewing but they released it anyway due to massive public demand?
The same gameplay demo that gave them massive doubts because it may misrepresent what the final game would look like and it was more meant as a proof of concept?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love those elements in the game as well.
But the whole fiasco is not a one sided argument, I like to have a nuanced view of the situation, it's not all doom and gloom and it's also not all roses and fairytales, it's always somewhere in the middle.
If you want to continue this discussion let's either move to one of the threads already present or feel free to PM me.
OK, they removed stuff they had issues with. But usually you remove stuff you have issue with in order to focus on stuff that works. The game has lots of mechanics that were not removed from the game and still don't work! Like the police "system". They clearly realized that in a city, no matter how corrupted, the Police has to have a presence. So they implemented it in the simplest possible fashion just to bulletpoint it as "we do have police and wanted level in the game". It's not about bad implementation of it, because there is no "system". Even if i tried, I wouldn't be able to come up with how to make the police in the game done with less effort.
They clearly realized that in a city, no matter how corrupted, the Police has to have a presence. So they implemented it in the simplest possible fashion just to bulletpoint it as "we do have police and wanted level in the game". It's not about bad implementation of it, because there is no "system".
I think you are doing a bad analysis...
The police system is so basic, for me it's more like that (We=CDPR i don't know who) :
We have no time (or whatever reason) for best one before release, whatever, we put it like that in the game and then we will improve it.
