open letter to the devs

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I wonder if the world spends its time watching bethesda activsion ea ubisoft etc whenever they release one of their glitchy crashy half-baked games? I'd much prefer the world to back off from watching these guys and give them some peace and quiet to get on with running their business as best they can. Some of these other companies with more money than you can imagine are nowhere to be seen when asked if they plan on giving free upgrades to games their customers have already bought off them, etc.
Game developers provide a product just like almost every other company. If you purchased a product that was defective or did not have 1/2 the things that were on the label you have every right to be irritated. Bethesda and Ubisoft are generally quite good about addressing issues after a game release. We will see if CDPR is good at it as well. Witcher 3 had bugs but nothing like CP2077 and it took CDPR 3 or 4 months to get it sorted. It's been 5 since CP2077 was released and it seems like a lot bugs have been address but they clearly are not going to be able to do much about performance on the old consoles. IMO the game should not have been released for the old consoles but money talks.
 
there has been a lot of postings expressing "why isn't option X available" or "the current state of Y is really bad" or "fix Z already" .

One of the many reasons I think CDPR mis-judged their audience.

Gamers expect certain things from certain kinds of games, just basic functionality/game design elements, many of which are inexplicably left out or which are counter-intuitively implemented in CP2077; I realize that the line between creativity and marketability isn't the easiest to walk, but CDPR seems to have consistently chosen the wrong one at the wrong time.

Personally, I wanted to be pandered to rather than have my assumptions challenged; this is entertainment, not a TED Talk.

Despite all of the negative feedback you've received I want you to see from this angle, you've created emotional investment and a level of passion
in your creation, seeing what you envisioned....

Oh, I wouldn't put it like that.

I'm not sure we necessarily were interested in what CDPR "envisioned"; I think--based on what I've seen, read, and thought myself--that we were interested in what CDPR showed us prior to release. I think we wanted what their PR campaign made us dream about. I think we wanted an immersive game in a cyberpunk-genre setting.

But did we necessarily want CDPR's "vision"...?
Quite honestly, I would have been happier with a comprehensive, detailed, cyberpunk life-simulator than with the story we were told. D'know about the rest of you.

if not who would take the time to even find these message boards or to actually write anything at all.

Angry people. Disappointed people.
People who feel they were lied to.

But also hopeful people, with the forlorn wish that getting grouchy on a webboard might be seen by the developers and affect the direction of the game.

the product isn't ideal, nor any of the relative situations....but then when are they?

It's a spectrum; there are plenty of examples of "good enough".
Alas, CP2077 doesn't quite qualify; in many ways, it feels like half a game.

we all have faith in you,

Speak for yourself; CP2077 is my first CDPR game and, by the looks of things, almost certainly my last.
I have no reason to have faith in them at all; they've yet to prove themselves to me. [...] If they're going to, it'll be now, with CP2077, the way they apparently had to with "The Witcher" for the rest of you.
 
One of the many reasons I think CDPR mis-judged their audience.

Gamers expect certain things from certain kinds of games, just basic functionality/game design elements, many of which are inexplicably left out or which are counter-intuitively implemented in CP2077; I realize that the line between creativity and marketability isn't the easiest to walk, but CDPR seems to have consistently chosen the wrong one at the wrong time.

Personally, I wanted to be pandered to rather than have my assumptions challenged; this is entertainment, not a TED Talk.



Oh, I wouldn't put it like that.

I'm not sure we necessarily were interested in what CDPR "envisioned"; I think--based on what I've seen, read, and thought myself--that we were interested in what CDPR showed us prior to release. I think we wanted what their PR campaign made us dream about. I think we wanted an immersive game in a cyberpunk-genre setting.

But did we necessarily want CDPR's "vision"...?
Quite honestly, I would have been happier with a comprehensive, detailed, cyberpunk life-simulator than with the story we were told. D'know about the rest of you.



Angry people. Disappointed people.
People who feel they were lied to.

But also hopeful people, with the forlorn wish that getting grouchy on a webboard might be seen by the developers and affect the direction of the game.



It's a spectrum; there are plenty of examples of "good enough".
Alas, CP2077 doesn't quite qualify; in many ways, it feels like half a game.



Speak for yourself; CP2077 is my first CDPR game and, by the looks of things, almost certainly my last.
I have no reason to have faith in them at all; they've yet to prove themselves to me. [...] If they're going to, it'll be now, with CP2077, the way they apparently had to with "The Witcher" for the rest of you.
The story and the characters are among the things that I like so much in the game. I don't want GTA with cyberpunk settings but extra activities other than quests and gigs would be appreciated.
 
The story and the characters are among the things that I like so much in the game. I don't want GTA with cyberpunk settings but extra activities other than quests and gigs would be appreciated.
Well, if I had to choose one to keep and one to toss, I'd rather have the replayability of a sandbox than a well-crafted story.
I'd rather have both, but no amount of good story can make up for terrible AI, clunky interface, and tons of broken promises made during the PR campaign.

I'd rather have seen a Cyberpunk 2077 movie with a good story, and instead get a Cyberpunk 2077 game that doesn't feel like a mess of half-finished features.
 
One of the many reasons I think CDPR mis-judged their audience.

Gamers expect certain things from certain kinds of games, just basic functionality/game design elements, many of which are inexplicably left out or which are counter-intuitively implemented in CP2077; I realize that the line between creativity and marketability isn't the easiest to walk, but CDPR seems to have consistently chosen the wrong one at the wrong time.

Personally, I wanted to be pandered to rather than have my assumptions challenged; this is entertainment, not a TED Talk.



Oh, I wouldn't put it like that.

I'm not sure we necessarily were interested in what CDPR "envisioned"; I think--based on what I've seen, read, and thought myself--that we were interested in what CDPR showed us prior to release. I think we wanted what their PR campaign made us dream about. I think we wanted an immersive game in a cyberpunk-genre setting.

But did we necessarily want CDPR's "vision"...?
Quite honestly, I would have been happier with a comprehensive, detailed, cyberpunk life-simulator than with the story we were told. D'know about the rest of you.



Angry people. Disappointed people.
People who feel they were lied to.

But also hopeful people, with the forlorn wish that getting grouchy on a webboard might be seen by the developers and affect the direction of the game.



It's a spectrum; there are plenty of examples of "good enough".
Alas, CP2077 doesn't quite qualify; in many ways, it feels like half a game.



Speak for yourself; CP2077 is my first CDPR game and, by the looks of things, almost certainly my last.
I have no reason to have faith in them at all; they've yet to prove themselves to me. [...] If they're going to, it'll be now, with CP2077, the way they apparently had to with "The Witcher" for the rest of you.

they never showed any gameplay that suggested anything but a heavily narrative focused gameplay. In fact the game is much more open world than any of the gameplay reveals.

I get that you wanted a life simulator, but 77% of the people who bought the game were satisfied with the product. of the 23% who weren't, many of them never complained about life simulator features. The idea that the game is a failure for most players, and that everyone wanted what you wanted is not accurate.

there are literally articles and posts of those who didnt like the game saying they should have cut the open world completely and created a tighter narrative. Your desire is just a small % of the total, and there is no reason to believe doing it the way you want would have satisfied more players.
 
I finally made it to the end with completing every single side mission I could get, there was nothing left on my map except to go talk to Honako(sorry if I misspelled her name). I have picked up/read things on how to join different factions or Netwatch, or be a police person. What was the point in me doing all of the Assault in Progress/Org. Crime side missions if it did literally nothing for me except street cred? What is the point of street cred really? What if I wanted to be a police officer? If you sit inside of a police car and listen to the radio chatter, sometimes there will be dialogue that has subtitles and I think they were planning or are planning to allow you to join netwatch and be a part of the police team. That would be cool.

There is so much in this game that makes no sense because the point of doing it has been removed or not in the game yet. I hope if anything they just keep adding on to it so our characters that made it all the way to the end doing everything in the game can continue instead of never ending restarts. At the same time, if they add in online play I hope we get to continue being able to play PVE and it not being PVP only.. or Netwatch vs say Animals or whatever faction you join but not a FPS like The Division turned into.

Other than the constant feeling like things are missing, I truly love this game a lot. They did a great job.
 
they never showed any gameplay that suggested anything but a heavily narrative focused gameplay. In fact the game is much more open world than any of the gameplay reveals.

Completely disagree.
Plus, they talked a lot about it in interviews and Night City Wires; the impression they managed to give was "GTA-on-steroids in a cyberpunk universe".

I get that you wanted a life simulator

Not what I said.
I said that, were it to come down to a choice, I'd choose the life simulator over the story.

but 77% of the people who bought the game were satisfied with the product.

No, they weren't.

77% of the people who felt compelled to make their opinion known, claimed to be satisfied with the product.
Unless a poll is taken using proper polling techniques, double-blind, control groups, the whole nine scientific yards, no percentage will accurately reflect public opinion.

The idea that the game is a failure for most players, and that everyone wanted what you wanted is not accurate.

Neither is your characterization of what I said.
You do not understand my position.

there are literally articles and posts of those who didnt like the game saying they should have cut the open world completely and created a tighter narrative. Your desire is just a small % of the total, and there is no reason to believe doing it the way you want would have satisfied more players.

You've seen some unspecified number of unlinked articles that contradict a warped version of the position I hold without any mention of "articles" with opinions that don't shore up your preconceived notions.

Your position is supported solely by your word, and is not supported by my own experience; if you wish to convince me of your point, you'll have to begin showing your work a little better
 
yeah I meant the early commercials as to the "vision" so yeah this isn't that but it could be still.. and yeah again they missed the mark of a good sand box open world ( even with all the enjoyable stories )but again the potential is there....I'm hopeful that they will take this to heart and make the appropriate changes. Why ? what's the alternative...raise hell....cuss at everybody...get banned ...eh no thanks, and CDPR is a business that is centered around public service ( via product cuz lets face it their a toy co. albeit a very complicated toy to produce ) ....loose your rep and it all circles the drain...it's a simple fact ...to slurring....no threats...just facts. Look back and a lot of game co. have "stepped in it " lately hopefully CDPR uses this as a time to grow not fall
 
and CDPR is a business that is centered around public service ( via product cuz lets face it their a toy co. albeit a very complicated toy to produce ) ....loose your rep and it all circles the drain...it's a simple fact ...

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one to say it.

In the end, CP2077 is a product to be sold, rather than art made for its own sake, and if the market for the game has expectations other than the intentions of the studio, that's not 100%--or even necessarily 50%--on the customers; the studio produced something that wasn't quite what a lot of us wanted or thought we were getting based on promo material.

CP2077 is my first CDPR game, and right now their rep is, for me, through the floor, and it affects whether I'll buy their products again.
 
I pre-ordered Jedi: Fallen Order, then remembered it was EA, and cancelled. Watched a complete play-through instead, and I'm glad I did as it didn't bring anything new or interesting. Not to mention it was pretty repetitive combat just from watching the play-through.
That game feels not only a failed spiritual successor to Jedi Knight, but to The Force Unleashed, and TFU was one of the weakest Star Wars games. Not only repetitive AF, they had to make a cast full of quasi-teens like the godawful sequels. I want my Katarn and Revan back.
 
I wonder if the world spends its time watching bethesda activsion ea ubisoft etc whenever they release one of their glitchy crashy half-baked games? I'd much prefer the world to back off from watching these guys and give them some peace and quiet to get on with running their business as best they can. Some of these other companies with more money than you can imagine are nowhere to be seen when asked if they plan on giving free upgrades to games their customers have already bought off them, etc.
They definitely do. People are always complaining and joking about Bethesda games being buggy. But, also, EA games are buggy, and Ubisoft games and Square games. Really, any large scale open world game ends up a buggy disaster for the first few months.

It's becoming increasingly clear that these companies are not sub par, bugs happen when you up your scale. EA games that are linear aren't as buggy, Square games that are linear aren't as buggy. It's just a matter of software of sufficient complexity gets buggy when you let your players approach it from different directions.

If your player enters a building by a door from a straight path with hedges on all sides to block their view, they won't see many bugs. But, if you let your players climb up and over and all over every surface, its exponentially harder to make sure every inch doesn't cause some graphical glitch or movement bug.

After watching games release like this for 25 years, I'm starting to think its just normal for games to release buggy. Going back to freaking Baldur's Gate 2, its always buggy and crashy the first few weeks or months. It just is.
 
I finally made it to the end with completing every single side mission I could get, there was nothing left on my map except to go talk to Honako(sorry if I misspelled her name). I have picked up/read things on how to join different factions or Netwatch, or be a police person. What was the point in me doing all of the Assault in Progress/Org. Crime side missions if it did literally nothing for me except street cred? What is the point of street cred really? What if I wanted to be a police officer? If you sit inside of a police car and listen to the radio chatter, sometimes there will be dialogue that has subtitles and I think they were planning or are planning to allow you to join netwatch and be a part of the police team. That would be cool.
V is not a police officer, or part of animals gang. V is mercenary and it would be very awkward if they allow us to join police forces. Pawel Sasko kind of explained it during stream although question was why there is only one apartment. His answer was that they have been thinking about option to buy houses but it really was against vision of V and they didnt want to make him real estate person. Story is not about that. I think its the same with joining factions - I cant really imagine V in Maelstrom. You can take jobs and build your street cred to be able to complete few missions in a slightly different way and get new contracts.
 
One of the many reasons I think CDPR mis-judged their audience.

They really didn't. If you know anything about CDPR, this game is exactly what you would expect, even Jackie's Bike basically has the same A.I. as Geralt's horse Roach.

Personally, I wanted to be pandered to rather than have my assumptions challenged
Well, then this game is not for you.

CP2077 doesn't quite qualify; in many ways, it feels like half a game.
Not even close. Fortnite is half a game. COD: Warzone is half a game. Cyberpunk delivers on all of its main premise: cool futuristic city, cool cyberware, fun combat, interesting plot that stretches the mind and makes you question your humanity.

CP2077 is my first CDPR game and, by the looks of things, almost certainly my last.
Yep. It's clearly not for you, friend. CDPR makes narrative focused RPGs with open world elements. The city is insanely immersive, as a back drop for the story. That is where CDPR shines, in the plot and conversation trees. If you don't like a lot of plot and lore, clearly CDPR is not making games for you.
 
They definitely do. People are always complaining and joking about Bethesda games being buggy. But, also, EA games are buggy, and Ubisoft games and Square games. Really, any large scale open world game ends up a buggy disaster for the first few months.

It's becoming increasingly clear that these companies are not sub par, bugs happen when you up your scale. EA games that are linear aren't as buggy, Square games that are linear aren't as buggy. It's just a matter of software of sufficient complexity gets buggy when you let your players approach it from different directions.

If your player enters a building by a door from a straight path with hedges on all sides to block their view, they won't see many bugs. But, if you let your players climb up and over and all over every surface, its exponentially harder to make sure every inch doesn't cause some graphical glitch or movement bug.

After watching games release like this for 25 years, I'm starting to think its just normal for games to release buggy. Going back to freaking Baldur's Gate 2, its always buggy and crashy the first few weeks or months. It just is.

... all of which makes the furore / hacking / ps store removal etc seem more peculiarly and specifically directed. I couldn't agree more btw, that's why I was so surprised by what the game actually was rather than what all reports / store removals etc suggested it wasn't. Anyway it's off my radar until further patches or DLCs etc, it's opened my old gaming eyes to massive open world / story etc adventures so currently there's Morrowinds Skyrims Fallouts Witchers etc all queueing up for attention on various consoles. If I find any of them half as enjoyable as CP I'll be a happy fellow :)
 
Pawel Sasko kind of explained it during stream although question was why there is only one apartment. His answer was that they have been thinking about option to buy houses but it really was against vision of V and they didnt want to make him real estate person. Story is not about that.

The story wasn't about that in Fallout of Skyrim, but they still built in the functionality. And players obviously loved it.

I think this is part of the problem with the game: CDPR had a 'vision', a way they wanted their game to be played, but they made the game open-world which, to most players, means freedom to do as you like. But so many options were blocked off or absent because of "story is not about that", and so it feels like it's on rails to a lot of us.

CP2077 is a chimera of gaming styles, coupled with a story that was treated more like a movie with choose-your-own-adventure elements, rather than a world for the player to play around with.
I think CP2077's biggest failures with CP2077 were mis-judging their audience and trying to shepherd players into the story they wanted to tell rather than making a more emergent experience.

They really didn't. If you know anything about CDPR, this game is exactly what you would expect, even Jackie's Bike basically has the same A.I. as Geralt's horse Roach.

And if you don't know anything about CDPR, and this is the first game of theirs you've played, that's hardly a relevant factor.

If CDPR was making CP2077 only for people who liked The Witcher, that's a ludicrously bad business strategy.

Well, then this game is not for you.

That's pretty easy for you to say, but that doesn't really mean anything.

See, I had only ads to go by, and interviews; nothing they said made it clear where the failures would be, a fair amount of it was fakey-fake, they showed a lot of Mox footage (giving the impression their influence was 80s cyberpunk and not 90s) as well as a Corpo playthrough which sure helped reinforce that impression.

Maybe it's not the game for me, but there was no way for me to know that, and it looked like it was completely to my taste prior to release.

Not even close. Fortnite is half a game. COD: Warzone is half a game. Cyberpunk delivers on all of its main premise: cool futuristic city, cool cyberware, fun combat, interesting plot that stretches the mind and makes you question your humanity.

...tons of missing features that are basic--nay, axiomatic--to games these days, lots of feature talk during pre-release that turned out to be misleading or completely BS, clunky UI, bugs out the wazoo, AI that's a joke, on-rails driving instead of AI, a police system that's like GTA's slower brother, etc, etc, etc.

You obviously love the game, but you're also obviously blind to its many faults and flaws. Take off the CP2077 goggles and look at the game more objectively.

Yep. It's clearly not for you, friend. CDPR makes narrative focused RPGs with open world elements.

So does Bethsda, but they do it better. And Cyberpunk 2077 has its origins in a table-top game, where gameplay is 100% emergent, by design; that CDPR would take that and turn it into a linear story that affords the player very little freedom is a betrayal of those origins.

The appeal of 2077 is the cyberpunk setting; the appeal of an RPG is being able to make the story your own.
Again, CDPR mis-judged their audience rather badly; cyberpunk already has a built in fanbase...this is like Tron: Legacy all over again, where a great idea is taken, stripped of everything that makes it what it is--warping the lore, if not removing it entirely--and making something only superficially similar to the original.

The city is insanely immersive, as a back drop for the story.

It's really not. It's superficially immersive.
It's looks great, it feels realistic on the surface, but when you get down to nuts-and-bolts, it's all style over substance.

That is where CDPR shines, in the plot and conversation trees. If you don't like a lot of plot and lore, clearly CDPR is not making games for you.

I didn't say I don't like that.
I'm saying that those elements were focused on to the detriment of actual gameplay.
I'm saying that affect alone does not a game make; it also has to have function.
 
See, I had only ads to go by, and interviews; nothing they said made it clear where the failures would be, a fair amount of it was fakey-fake, they showed a lot of Mox footage (giving the impression their influence was 80s cyberpunk and not 90s) as well as a Corpo playthrough which sure helped reinforce that impression.
If it is a Night City Wire you are talking about, would you be so kind and point which particular episode (end precise moment) made that fake impression on you? Because I had my time re watching it lately and I can say that all (aside some ambiguous statements) is in the game.

...tons of missing features that are basic--nay, axiomatic--to games these days, lots of feature talk during pre-release that turned out to be misleading or completely BS, clunky UI, bugs out the wazoo, AI that's a joke, on-rails driving instead of AI, a police system that's like GTA's slower brother, etc, etc, etc.
Same old missing features song again. What make's you think that those "features" is a must? Or there is a all kind of game golden standard that any game studio should be checking against? Or you simply want to limit developers in their creative freedom?

Aside from technical issues CDPR made CP2k77 they want it to be, with exact feature set atm. Yes, the game will see improvements in coming years via DLC or patches (just like W3 did) but nothing ground breaking.

[...]

You obviously love the game, but you're also obviously blind to its many faults and flaws. Take off the CP2077 goggles and look at the game more objectively.
Objectively CP2k77 has technical issues. The rest is rather question of taste or personal likings.

It's really not. It's superficially immersive.
It's looks great, it feels realistic on the surface, but when you get down to nuts-and-bolts, it's all style over substance.
On first episode of NCW Pawel Sasko have said that Night City is a stage for a story they want to tell. It's pretty clear to me.
Living and breathing city — is all about impression you may gain while being there, not while making a gonk of yourself.
 
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If it is a Night City Wire you are talking about, would you be so kind and point which particular episode (end precise moment) made that fake impression on you? Because I had my time re watching it lately and I can say that all (aside some ambiguous statements) is in the game.

I'm not gonna do homework, mate; I've got work to do, money to earn.

Besides, usually when I post stuff like that, the people arguing against me rationalize and justify and weasel-word until their mental gymnastics make the examples I provide say what they want those examples to say. I have no real interest in arguing about interpretations; they said extremely misleading things that gave extremely misleading impressions.

For example, they sure gave a lot of people the impression that NPCs were fully functional individuals, that you could follow an NPC around all day and watch them go to work, watch them go home, etc.
And someone will say, "Well, there is a day/night cycle in CP2077, so what they said was true...you just have to interpret it a certain way." In other words, you have to gaslight yourself. I've had that conversation too many times on the internet to start it up again now, which is the impression I'm getting from your reply, honestly.

Same old missing features song again. What make's you think that those "features" is a must? Or there is a all kind of game golden standard that any game studio should be checking against? Or you simply want to limit developers in their creative freedom?

The developers are selling a product; their creative freedom is secondary--if not tertiary--to delivering a quality product...which they obviously didn't.

And it's obvious from reading comments that many, many people wanted those features, expected those features, and are unsatisfied--disappointed--that they aren't there.
You can "Devil's Advocate" all you like, but it's pretty clear that there is a standard and CDPR ignored it to their own detriment.

Aside from technical issues CDPR made CP2k77 they want it to be, with exact feature set atm.

And it's not what the players wanted from the game.

By definition, that's a screw-up...unless CDPR was making games for art's own sake, and selling it to others was never the goal.

[...]

Objectively CP2k77 has technical issues. The rest is rather question of taste or personal likings.

No, the rest is a question of marketing, of selling a product people wish to buy.

On first episode of NCW Pawel Sasko have said that Night City is a stage for a story they want to tell.

And it's a stage that looks pretty, but has no real functionality.
This is a game, not a visual novel.

Living and breathing city — is all about impression you may gain while being there, not while making a gonk of yourself.
Well, then they failed at that, too, because the only way your Street Cred has any effect is on available items; NPCs don't change their behavior based on how badass the streets think you are.
 
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I'm not gonna do homework, mate;
Me neither, but it's a COVID times. Working from home, having some spare time. That kind of stuff.

For example, they sure gave a lot of people the impression that NPCs were fully functional individuals, that you could follow an NPC around all day and watch them go to work, watch them go home, etc.
And someone will say, "Well, there is a day/night cycle in CP2077, so what they said was true...you just have to interpret it a certain way." In other words, you have to gaslight yourself. I've had that conversation too many times on the internet to start it up again now, which is the impression I'm getting from your reply, honestly.
Ok. You got me (not).
But admit you've got that "fully functional NPC impression" not from CDPR directly but from some random guy on youtube.


Well, then they failed at that, too, because the only way your Street Cred has any effect is on available items; NPCs don't change their behavior based on how badass the streets think you are.
We talking about different things completely. I've talking about visual and audial impression Night City makes on you. While you talking about Street Cred as a game mechanic.

While I do agree that more fleshed out Street Cred may add more spice to game play. Also a have doubts that such a change will occur.
 
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