Do you think CDPR will improve the AI in future updates?

[a3n3a]

• * "AI" as in the behaviour of crowds and cars, how they react to environmental changes, disappear/change when you turn 360°, etc.

I fear that after the game breaking bugs are fixed, CDPR will let the AI be as it is right now: braindead.
Even though I truly enjoy this game, I find this deficit to be a serious blocking factor for replays, because you tend to notice these things more and more.

 

[MaeriUndead]

IMO they'll improve that but it's not like the top priority (can't wait for DLCs! )
What I'd like to see in the game: after a street fight I want to be able to comfort frightened NPCs - even though the fight is over they are still sitting somewhere in the corner and I feel bad for them

 

[_Fender_]

There are two things here. Dissapearing of models is not AI and I dont think that we will get to a point where you will not notice models ghosting off.

But when it comes to behaviour - yeah, I`m pretty optimistic about some improvement. Car traffic at this point is nothing but broken - cars tend to stop in a middle of a road for no reason and its just very painfull to drive in a normal traffic flow. I would be very suprised if they leave it like that. There are few spots next to megabuilding or in city center where cars drive through concrete wall and it hasnt been fixed to this day which gives me a hope that they want to release big traffic patch at once. Maybe I`m too optimistic

 

[BionicDance]

I have a feeling we'll see a lot of lipstick-on-a-pig, but none of the fundamental, structural changes that need to happen for a competent AI.

What I've seen so far tells me that CDPR's priorities really don't match those of much of the audience.

 

[Garrison72]

Nope. They don't have the experience or the tech for it. It's already been six months and the best they could do is make police spawn a bit further out.

 

[BionicDance]

And never mind non-existent driving AI.

At least civilians are behaving a bit more normally, where they don't all just cower en masse. I mean, that's something, right?

 

[Bartinga2077]

"DO YOU THINK CDPR WILL IMPROVE THE AI IN FUTURE UPDATES?"​

Yes, I believe so.

After all, they already installed optimizations in an attempt to fix it. Only guessing from here on out, but for some reason it looks like those stopped working at some point. Observing cars that come to a stop, at some moment they "honk", what they always do when another car, or you stop in front of them, which in turn is signalling to me that they register a (imminent) collision, forcing them to stop. They also "decelerate" slowly to a stop, and not "instantly" stop like they do at certain spawn-points.

Though not as effective as before 1.2, looking back and forth still helps despawning cars, clearing a jam. Thinking about that and observing the traffic, I came to believe the game has an issue despawning cars accordingly and as a result, they remain. So there are cars that shouldn't be, and causing conflicts with the intended existing traffic. Looking back and forth despawns these cars... sometimes. (Almost always before 1.2).

The challenge for CDPR is to make cars despawn in such a way, that it doesn't look obvious to the player.

If I may place a suggestion for the devs to reconsider; Revert the traffic back exactly to how it was before 1.2, but in the event the player looks back and forth, let the game spawn exactly the same car, instead of completely another different one, (which made it pretty obvious), and "keep it the same until the car has run it's course". Same for the NPCs.

 

[exxxed]

I expect them to fix the issues, as for improvements alone I believe there will be some superficial ones like slightly improved animation transitions and response time.

 

[Bukary77]

No, there will be no significant AI (e.g. traffic) updates. CP2077 is seriously bad in this regard. And improving it would require a huge game redesign (quests, driving, pathfinding, animations, physics, streaming etc.).

The car was already sold. You can expect the manufacturer to fix the engine if it's broken. But you should not expect him to change it to a new model.

It's too late.

 

[BionicDance]

No, there will be no significant AI (e.g. traffic) updates. CP2077 is seriously bad in this regard. And improving it would require a huge game redesign (quests, driving, pathfinding, animations, physics, streaming etc.).

Which is all stuff that should have been built into the game from the beginning.
It's, like, one of the very first things they should have done just as soon as there was enough map to start. It's some of the most basic functionality that all similar games have...only CP2077 has the big-print, easy-reader version. At best.

The car was already sold. You can expect the manufacturer to fix the engine if it's broken. But you should not expect him to change it to a new model.

It's too late.

This isn't a car and it's not too late.

If we'd bought something that couldn't be changed, sure. Something physical.
But computer programs aren't like that; they can be updated...as we've already seen.

If they decide to get serious about AI, it's doable. Especially since a lot of that functionality is modular--at least, it was the last time I played with coding--where the engine does a function call when it needs to do something. Replacing certain aspect of AI may or may not be easy to program, but replacing what's there would basically be a cut-and-paste.

That is, assuming programming hasn't fundamentally changed since I was in high school...

 

[Bukary77]

Replacing certain aspect of AI may or may not be easy to program, but replacing what's there would basically be a cut-and-paste.

Do you seriously believe CDPR is going to redesign so many aspects of the engine and then make sure that each of these new elements works perfectly and does not interfere with the existing ones? And provide all these improvements in the form of a patch for the already released game?

We are talking about hundreds of working hours in many departments. And many, many days of testing. If you change the rules of AI traffic in the game, you basically need to test EVERYTHING (e.g. each quest that involves driving with NPC) again.

I don't think it's going to happen. But we'll find out who's right in the next few months. IMHO they are working on DLCs and expansions now.

 

[BionicDance]

Do you seriously believe CDPR is going to redesign so many aspects of the engine and then make sure that each of these new elements works perfectly and does not interfere with the existing ones?

I think they absolutely have no other choice.

And provide all these improvements in the form of a patch for the already released game?

That is how these things are done.

We are talking about hundreds of working hours in many departments. And many, many days of testing. If you change the rules of AI traffic in the game, you basically need to test EVERYTHING (e.g. each quest that involves driving with NPC) again.

They should have done it before this game was released.
If they don't fix it, I flat guarantee I'm never buying a CDPR game ever again. Cuz if this is the utter lack of professionalism and product quality I can expect, then they've lost a customer.

It's that simple.

I don't think it's going to happen. But we'll find out who's right in the next few months. IMHO they are working on DLCs and expansions now.

I don't think it's gonna happen, either.
I just know that, if it doesn't, CDPR will face the consequences of their inaction. (Financially, mods! That ain't a threat!)

 

[_Fender_]

Time will tell. I just think that traffic mechanics is not a typical bug you will get to find out after release. City traffic doesnt work correctly (and by that I mean reasonably stable movement without players input for at least 5 minutes) and never was and I cant believe that people who worked on that didnt see that basically cars stop and create jam traffic without any cause. So my hypothesis is that traffic system was never really finished and its in costant work in progress mode. Of course there is also worst case scenario risk that they just failed and do not have resources to develop it as they wanted.

 

[seomid]

CDPR never even acknowledged the AI to be bad. They repeatedly said they're proud of the PC version. It took them 6 months to make the police spawn 30 meters further. Don't expect anything from them, at least you won't be disappointed again

 

[BionicDance]

So my hypothesis is that traffic system was never really finished and its in costant work in progress mode.

I agreed with the first half, but you lost me at 'and'; CDPR made no statement regarding what's being changed, if anything, with regard to AI.

Not saying that they're aren't doing it, only that we have no way to know for sure until they tell us.

Of course there is also worst case scenario risk that they just failed and do not have resources to develop it as they wanted.

Or even worse than that...they like it this way.
Far, far worse possibility.

CDPR never even acknowledged the AI to be bad. They repeatedly said they're proud of the PC version.

I...don't trust that statement.

I think they had to say it, because admitting they'd flamingo'ed up on design would leave them vulnerable to even more criticism, and possibly lawsuits, so they kinda have no choice but to claim they've done what they set out to do.

I'm just speculating, though. But when dude-boy (forget his name) made that video apologizing to the world for CP2077's launch and he said they were proud of the game, I got the same 'Sh'yeah, right!" feeling I do when a politician blatantly lies in public when they're caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar.

 

[_Fender_]

I`m sure they didnt like it. PR talk made by company is one thing but lets be honest - people involved in production are skilled and wise enough to see if something work as intented or not. I can totally understand if some issues they dont know how to deal with - woudnt be a first people who failed by aiming too high - but I dont think they ever said "job done, lets move on to next thing".

Being proud of a work is another topic, but I really believe that they are proud and for me - they should be proud. Yes, there are things which didnt work and probably a lot of times they had to make compromises but if you work on a project for years and put so much time and effort in it, you definitely have a right to be proud.

 

[BionicDance]

Well, I've worked in games, and I can tell you that the few I worked on...I wasn't proud of 'em.
I was proud of the parts I made--mostly cut-scenes, a little level design--but the final products were just...ehhh...

Even when we spent years on 'em, I thought we really ought to have done better.

 

[seomid]

I agreed with the first half, but you lost me at 'and'; CDPR made no statement regarding what's being changed, if anything, with regard to AI.

Not saying that they're aren't doing it, only that we have no way to know for sure until they tell us.



Or even worse than that...they like it this way.
Far, far worse possibility.


I...don't trust that statement.

I think they had to say it, because admitting they'd flamingo'ed up on design would leave them vulnerable to even more criticism, and possibly lawsuits, so they kinda have no choice but to claim they've done what they set out to do.

I'm just speculating, though. But when dude-boy (forget his name) made that video apologizing to the world for CP2077's launch and he said they were proud of the game, I got the same 'Sh'yeah, right!" feeling I do when a politician blatantly lies in public when they're caught with their hand in the proverbial cookie jar.

I didn't want to trust that statement either, however the state of the game half a year after release doesn't lead to the greatest heaps of optimism, at least for me. A slight hope is there, a proper reason for it isn't.

 

[Wobblyknee]

I sure hope they do replace that obvious placeholder AI.
The lack of interactivity with NPCs and lifelessness in general is the biggest problem this game has.

 

[BionicDance]

I didn't want to trust that statement either, however the state of the game half a year after release doesn't lead to the greatest heaps of optimism, at least for me. A slight hope is there, a proper reason for it isn't.

Well...I mean, everybody knows game development is difficult and time-consuming. And I believe CDPR said something about not doing crunch time; someone correct me if I'm wrong!

So maybe they're working on it. Or...maybe not.

I wish they'd communicate with us more; I'd like to know whether to just give up or to keep hoping.

I mean, I relate to this sentiment all too well, yanno?