Romances: Disparity in quality and quantity

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Only River is underdeveloped for me :(
Kerry have 6-7 related quests that I find pretty good (vs 3 for River if we count "I fought the law" and practically the same as Panam and Judy). I don't know about when you romance Kerry/River, I never tested. :)
Maybe for Judy and Panam, they seem more important because some of their quests are included in the main quest line (And also maybe that the team who wrote Judy/Panam where more inspired by their characters).

But if we compare Judy and Kerry quests (very quickly):
-Kerry : rather fun and rather happy ending.
-Judy : Sadness to Sadness and no happy ending (if male V).
If you like happy ending and fun quests, kerry have best quest line.
If you like sad stories, Judy have probably better quest line.
 
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they added new scenes for Triss in TW3, after all.
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Triss romance in TW3 was underwhelming compared to TW2, though. Concerning the romances of this game, the only thing I find curious is Kerry being an exclusive gay romance, when he is canonically bi according to the lore.
Panam, River and Judy are straight/gay though, and shouldn't be changed 'cause, like some people have pointed out, it would be out of character. That being said, given the scale of this game, a bunch of bi options of either gender would have been in order (NOT changing Panam, Judy and River, mind ya, but new characters), this would solve the disparity in quantity (and hopefully, quality) I think.
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You've got Zevran, the leather fetish spicy rogue hedonist who likes murder, vs Alistair. the virgin white knight who gifts you a rose. You've got Iron Bull, another promiscuous hedonist who's entire romance is centered on BDSM sex
I never understood the players who liked Iron Bull but disliked Zevran, IB always seemed far worse to me...
 
funny, I love the Iron Bull as a character but I hate his romance because I'm really not into BDSM. Zevran's I like. It's really very sweet I think, since he doesn't really know what hit him once he discovers he actually has feelings for the Warden.
But if you compare Zev to Alistair or Dorian and the Iron Bull to Cullen, it kinda could be interpreted as the gay options being less "classical romance" than the straight ones.

Getting back to Kerry...who doesn't want ot hook up with a Rock star? The problem is really, V doesn't show enough emotion, so it doesn't feel like a romance, it feels like friends with benefits at best? They really could have done that better i think, especially since V is pretty vocal abot his feelings in other situations. It doesn't help that many of Kerry's quests actually have Johnny on the steering wheel instead of V.
 

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Triss romance in TW3 was underwhelming compared to TW2, though.
And Kerry's and River's are underwhelming compared to Judy and Panam.

That being said, given the scale of this game, a bunch of bi options of either gender would have been in order (NOT changing Panam, Judy and River, mind ya, but new characters), this would solve the disparity in quantity (and hopefully, quality) I think.
I don't think introducing new romance options would solve the disparity at all. If CDPR wanted to add more LIs, they'd have to write brand new storylines for said characters so they'd be on par with the ones we currently have. As it is now, it would be much easier for the developers to simply fix the current disparity by adding more romance dialogue options for Judy, Kerry and River.

The problem is really, V doesn't show enough emotion, so it doesn't feel like a romance, it feels like friends with benefits at best? They really could have done that better i think, especially since V is pretty vocal abot his feelings in other situations.
Well said. Lack of romance related dialogue options aside, this is one of the main issues I have with Kerry's romance. I wouldn't say it feels like friends with benefits per se, because after you kiss Kerry he turns into a romantic dork (I don't mean this in a negative way at all, I thought it was very sweet) and he does it again in Boats Drinks. But V's lack of responses, as well as lack of emotion expressed in those few options we do have is definitely an issue, as it makes the romance feel somewhat one-sided. Kerry says some really sweet things during the boat ride while V spaces out in the background and doesn't acknowledge any of it.

V's VA and his delivery isn't a problem, he did a great job, the problem is how V's side of dialogues are written. V should have been more emotionally open and affectionate with Kerry. And I don't understand why he isn't.
 
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I don't think introducing new romance options would solve the disparity at all. If CDPR wanted to add more LIs, they'd have to write brand new storylines for said characters so they'd be on par with the ones we currently have. As it is now, it would be much easier for the developers to simply fix the current disparity by adding more romance dialogue options for Judy, Kerry and River.
I might have worded it wrongly: what I meant was that those options ought to have been in the base game, not added as a separate DLC. By "new" I meant "different" characters, other than the existing main romances, and by both words Im refering to different types of personalities for each one. Having just one option per orientation feels very limiting (straight men have only the Nomad girl, straight women have only the cop family man, gay men the rockerboy and lesbians the alt girl). Not saying any of these options is bad (I love Judy), but some more variety in personalities would have been nice.
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And Kerry's and River's are underwhelming compared to Judy and Panam.
Assuredly. TW3 has the excuse of kinda steer you towards Geralt's canon romance in the books, which is Yen (so Triss gets the shorter end of the stick). However, we got Cyberpunk 2077 where we play a custom character, not a predefined one, and therefore all options should have more or less the same content (hell, you can even personalise the genitalia of your character regardless of their gender, so one would think the romance options would have been given just as much attention to detail). I reckon if CDPR were to make more content for the romances, Kerry and River would be the ones that need much more work.
 
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I personally wouldn't call them bland, I romanced Kerry and really liked what's there (except for V barely saying anything, V should have been able to show his interest in Kerry just as openly as he can with Panam), but you're right that romances for both male LIs are underdeveloped, and this has been a general consensus pretty much since the game's launch.

I also don't think it's too late to improve it, they could add new dialogue to existing quests. CDPR have skilled writers and quest designers, so I don't think that figuring out how to add new content without disrupting the flow of conversations would be too hard for them to do, they added new scenes for Triss in TW3, after all.

There's another thread discussing the differences between romances, if you'd like to read it here.
Yeah, you're right about it not being too late. just wished that the males were as interesting as the females from the start, you know?
 
You can't really expect a quality love story where there are multiple romance options. Starcraft, an RTS game. has one of the best love stories in a video game. it focused on a single relationship between two people. Jim Raynor and Sarah Kerrigan who becomes the queen of blades, and their relationship evolved over the course of a story that started in the 1998 games. When you have a game where you can have a dozen romances options, they are going to be rushed and feel unnatural, because love and chemistry has to happen inside a single game most of the time. Only exception to this I have seen, is the Tali romance from Mass Effect, which was the most natural and belieavble relationship, but because they had to spread their resources around the various LIs, Tali romance lacked in areas.
 
I disagree, I think Mass Effect overall and the Dragon Age series have many really good romances, even though they were more than one. It's kind of their specialty. An I hate being forced into a romance in an RPG - it should be about choices. I guess Starcraft only having on romance plot is different since its an RTS.
 
I disagree, I think Mass Effect overall and the Dragon Age series have many really good romances, even though they were more than one.
I don't know for Dragon Age, but not agree with Mass Effect (i absoloutly love the 3 episodes and will certainly buy the legendary edition), but i remember it was too quick and too poor with my beautiful Liara. At the end : Oh no, that all ? Serious ! :cry:
Anyway, nothing to do with the feeling I have with Judy :)
 
It's just preference, so to each his or her own.

i don't think Mass Effect or Dragon Age had any romance I would call good. In Dragon Age origins, there was zero progression with any relatioship you could form, whether romantic or platonic. You could simply buy hundreds of gifts, and they would be in love with you or see you as their best friend. DA2 and DAI, the LIs begin falling for you after a few flirts and conversations. In Mass Effect, Liara, Kaiden, and Ashley are ready to sleep with you almost right after they are introduced. In mass effect 2 it was just choosing the obvious flirt option when it came up, or agreeing with what they said or did all the time to get loyalty, and they were ready to love and die for you then. Tali was only more natural to me, because the romance is built on two games before it turns romantic, so there was sort of an evolution to their relationship by the time it happens.

like I said in my original post, I really don't expect compelling Love strories in a game, especially in a game where you can choose from a multitude of options. Love stories only work in video games, when they are a central part of the games main story; only reason I mentioned Starcraft. Otherwise, it is mostly just choose the most attractive one, choose a handful of the right dialogue, achieve sex scene as reward, ending the love story part of the game.
 
It's just preference, so to each his or her own.

i don't think Mass Effect or Dragon Age had any romance I would call good. In Dragon Age origins, there was zero progression with any relatioship you could form, whether romantic or platonic. You could simply buy hundreds of gifts, and they would be in love with you or see you as their best friend. DA2 and DAI, the LIs begin falling for you after a few flirts and conversations. In Mass Effect, Liara, Kaiden, and Ashley are ready to sleep with you almost right after they are introduced. In mass effect 2 it was just choosing the obvious flirt option when it came up, or agreeing with what they said or did all the time to get loyalty, and they were ready to love and die for you then. Tali was only more natural to me, because the romance is built on two games before it turns romantic, so there was sort of an evolution to their relationship by the time it happens.

like I said in my original post, I really don't expect compelling Love strories in a game, especially in a game where you can choose from a multitude of options. Love stories only work in video games, when they are a central part of the games main story; only reason I mentioned Starcraft. Otherwise, it is mostly just choose the most attractive one, choose a handful of the right dialogue, achieve sex scene as reward, ending the love story part of the game.
I don't think how long the LIs take to sleep with the protagonist is a good indicator of the quality/depth of the romance. Isabela, Morrigan and Zevran will sleep with Hawke and the Warden right away, but the bulk of their character development comes afterwards and some choices will make Morrigan and Alistair leave regardless of approval. The DA2 rivalry system also partially fixed the gift bombing issue (which was optional anyway).

In any case, to me romance doesn't have to be a central part of the game to be well written or make the story more interesting. It just has to fit the type of character you're playing, take the LIs personality and motivations into consideration and have enough content not to feel cut abruptly.
 
You can't really expect a quality love story where there are multiple romance options. Starcraft, an RTS game. has one of the best love stories in a video game. it focused on a single relationship between two people. Jim Raynor and Sarah Kerrigan who becomes the queen of blades, and their relationship evolved over the course of a story that started in the 1998 games. When you have a game where you can have a dozen romances options, they are going to be rushed and feel unnatural, because love and chemistry has to happen inside a single game most of the time. Only exception to this I have seen, is the Tali romance from Mass Effect, which was the most natural and belieavble relationship, but because they had to spread their resources around the various LIs, Tali romance lacked in areas.

I think they did a really decent beginning to a relationship. Except River I think....

I think people really don't mentally realize this game has a very short time frame in terms of how much time is passing in the game world. In games usually, the amount of time we spend playing represents much more time in the game world.

So yeah, I'd say these stories are reasonably good at representing a very strong 2-3 week relationship that results in a possibly longer relationship in the future.
 

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If you look at Dragon Age and Mass Effect romances on a purely mechanical level, then yeah, it wasn't perfect and needed improvements. But as @naddaya said, you don't have to spam companions with gifts in DAO, and the romance progression is there, because there are dialogues that show said progression happening. In Cyberpunk, only Panam has that.

So yeah, I'd say these stories are reasonably good at representing a very strong 2-3 week relationship that results in a possibly longer relationship in the future.
Game's short timeframe isn't a problem, nor do I think it's applicable because LIs weren't treated the same way.

Panam has the most romantic dialogue which makes her romance progression feel natural, Judy is involved in the most quests and it makes hers feel natural as well because of the time spent with her. Kerry and River have none of that. V going straight for the kiss with Kerry while showing no interest in him whatsoever in the quests prior isn't a good representation. It feels rushed.
 
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If you look at Dragon Age and Mass Effect romances on a purely mechanical level, then yeah, it wasn't perfect and needed improvements. But as @naddaya said, you don't have to spam companions with gifts in DAO, and the romance progression is there, because there are dialogues that show said progression happening. In Cyberpunk, only Panam has that.


Game's short timeframe isn't a problem, nor do I think it's applicable because LIs weren't treated the same way.

Panam has the most romantic dialogue which makes her romance progression feel natural, Judy is involved in the most quests which again makes hers feel natural as well. Kerry and River have none of that. V going straight for the kiss with Kerry while showing no interest in him whatsoever in the quests prior isn't a good representation. It feels rushed.

my response to that post was more related to the romances as compared to the other games. Not male vs female, for that post.
 

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my response to that post was more related to the romances as compared to the other games. Not male vs female, for that post.
Ah, I see. Still, I think that the presentation of romances is a bit hard to compare because in Cyberpunk, romance "mechanics" aren't utilized equally for all characters, while in most other games they are.

Edit: If I use Panam's romance to compare to DA romances then the comparison is positive, but if I use River's then Cyberpunk's romances look worse execution-wise. I can't say "Cyberpunk romances vs DA romances" because of how different the experience romancing each character in Cyberpunk is (it's not due to their personalities), and sadly, I don't mean it in a positive way.
 
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If you look at Dragon Age and Mass Effect romances on a purely mechanical level, then yeah, it wasn't perfect and needed improvements. But as @naddaya said, you don't have to spam companions with gifts in DAO, and the romance progression is there, because there are dialogues that show said progression happening. In Cyberpunk, only Panam has that.


Game's short timeframe isn't a problem, nor do I think it's applicable because LIs weren't treated the same way.

Panam has the most romantic dialogue which makes her romance progression feel natural, Judy is involved in the most quests and it makes hers feel natural as well because of the time spent with her. Kerry and River have none of that. V going straight for the kiss with Kerry while showing no interest in him whatsoever in the quests prior isn't a good representation. It feels rushed.

Yeah, and River misses you after 2 conversations and falls in love after the third. Not weird that some people think that romance is creepy. Both males are very rushed.
 
In Dragon Age origins, there was zero progression with any relatioship you could form, whether romantic or platonic. You could simply buy hundreds of gifts, and they would be in love with you or see you as their best friend. DA2 and DAI, the LIs begin falling for you after a few flirts and conversations. In Mass Effect, Liara, Kaiden, and Ashley are ready to sleep with you almost right after they are introduced. In mass effect 2 it was just choosing the obvious flirt option when it came up, or agreeing with what they said or did all the time
Out of all Bioware romances, only the ME ones have true quality IMO (except ME3 Thane and Jacob, obviously)
 
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I'm bringing this back out of the depths of the 3rd page.

How's everyone feeling now that it's been a few months and the discussion died down? Hopeful that maybe someone checked the thread and passed the word along to CDPR? Worried? Indifferent because it's been a while?
 
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Worried? Indifferent because it's been a while?
Patient !
Because I'm quite sure we will see some expensions about romances. That will be dramatic if CDPR don't do it. Create a such greats characters and let them in this state o_O
Because If there is a point where everybody agree is : CDPR give us more River/Kerry/Panam/Judy :D
 
I'm bringing this back out of the depths of the 3rd page.

How's everyone feeling now that it's been a few months and the discussion died down? Hopeful that maybe someone checked the thread and passed the word along to CDPR? Worried? Indifferent because it's been a while?
A sort of balance between worried and resigned with just the teensiest-tiniest pinch of hopeful. Still fully expecting that River and Kerry will pull the short straws on any future content, but hoping for the best... just not too much hope. Always got my fingers crossed this thread has come up with whoever checks these things and they don't forget we River/Kerry fans exist.
 
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