6 month game retrospective...lets talk

[FkzAz]

The game became the joke/meme of the gamming industry and deservingly so.

The good thing is that other devs from other companies, took CP2077 as an example on what happens when you do not give time to develop a game, in which resulted in multiple delays.

It also marked an all time low on how the industry as fallen in the last years for multiplat games.

False promises, deceiving marketing, claims of Rockstar lvl of quality, and a game that launched in a state that nobody on this planet wold except it to be.. It was/is a nightmare (and I am not talking about the consoles versions).

In a way, it was a very good eye opener for gammers on what they should expect from a game product and I hope it marked a turning point for the multiplat industry.

Looking forward at CP2077, it's trying to finish the game engine and improve the game for the next years and release a finished edition release (something very common in cdpr with the exception of tw3).

Let's see if in the next 2 years they are able to finish the engine/game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I would urge you to be careful by stating the game is objectively horrible.
Because that it simply is not. Sure, it has multiple issues that need resolving. But its not objectively horrible.

Not problem to said it's horrible
I obsolutly hate Yakuza LAD, the worst game for me since a long time. But if I look the reviews on the game page, many (a lot) of gamers find it good/great/awesome (like a GOTY). It takes for everyone.

 

[sL3nd3rmAnn]

Yes, because PC version is the one that is (according to CDPR) working as intended. Plan is to bring last-gen console versions close to the level of PC, which does have "mostly positive" reception.

Even so, how on earth does 5.2/10 prove that far more people dislike than like the game?

Funny, but 2.5% is still higher than percentage of people who refunded the game. So, is there any shred of evidence to support the claim that "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers"? Haven't seen any.

Source? CDPR haven't said anything yet officially, and I remember reading the article 1-2 months ago which estimated 2021 sales to 1.5-2 millions.

​

ooodrin: "Even so, how on earth does 5.2/10 prove that far more people dislike than like the game?
Funny, but 2.5% is still higher than percentage of people who refunded the game. So, is there any shred of evidence to support the claim that "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers"? Haven't seen any."

I was just pointing the error in your argument.
It does not prove more people like the game either.
You can rate a game a 5 but still be displeased seriously about it.
The score alone does not prove this also for it accounts only a small percentages from all people who bought the game.

5 means mediocre. Not the masterpiece and wonder some are saying it is.

Refund argument is flawed too for i and my brother for example did not refund but we are very displeased with the game.

 

[AikoHayashi]

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ooodrin: "Even so, how on earth does 5.2/10 prove that far more people dislike than like the game?
Funny, but 2.5% is still higher than percentage of people who refunded the game. So, is there any shred of evidence to support the claim that "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers"? Haven't seen any."

I was just pointing the error in your argument.
It does not prove more people like the game either.
You can rate a game a 5 but still be displeased seriously about it.
The score alone does not prove this also for it accounts only a small percentages from all people who bought the game.

5 means mediocre. Not the masterpiece and wonder some are saying it is.

Refund argument is flawed too for i and my brother for example did not refund but we are very displeased with the game.

OK, not good but what has this to do with DLC? If you dislike the game that much no DLC will be able to fix it. There are enough other topics where people can complain about the game.

 

[cl656]

876 hours sounds like a happy customer to me.

 

[GethroShepard]

I keep the game on my HDD because I want the updates. Once all the updates are here and a good modding tool is released, I will modify the game and really play this game.

If no modding tool is released, I will delete it.

They can do what they want, it is their product and I am only a consumer.
But I will never buy a CDPR product again, even if they finally correct all the bugs and the glitches.
Since january and my last run with CP2077, I never go to GOG and don't want to buy a game at this plateform ever again.

If they give the silent traitement and "are proud of the game on PC", fine. But I use my right as a consumer to never buy one of their product again.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I dont understand why people say "oh wow you played 300hours of it, that must mean its good so stop lying" or things like that.
Isnt it normal to play a game as much as you can before you review it and give your opinion about if its bad or not?
It doesnt matter if i play 80hours or 800hours, the game can still be bad.

With that said, even if you spend 800 hours in this game, it doesnt mean that the money is well spend, as this game is objectively still horrible. You just needed 800 hours to complete everything and have an opinion about it.

there are limits to the spend time to review something angle. No one is paying someone to spend 300 hours on something. At some level, some part of this person feels a compulsion to engage with this product. Considering there are almost infinitely other things to do with their time, and other things to review, there must be something about it that makes them want to spend time there.

Its clearly possible to spend years on something and come away disliking it. However, those final feelings are generally not a complete picture. At some point it was extremely compelling.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Not problem to said it's horrible
I obsolutly hate Yakuza LAD, the worst game for me since a long time. But if I look the reviews on the game page, many (a lot) of gamers find it good/great/awesome (like a GOTY). It takes for everyone.

Its not a problem to say its horrible. It is a problem to statebits objectively the case.
What you describe about yakuza is a subjective statement, not objective.
I'm not gonna go deeper into that discussion though.

 

[Bealdor]

I dont understand why people say "oh wow you played 300hours of it, that must mean its good so stop lying" or things like that.
Isnt it normal to play a game as much as you can before you review it and give your opinion about if its bad or not?
It doesnt matter if i play 80hours or 800hours, the game can still be bad.

Gaming is not a job for me but a hobby. That means I won't force myself to play a game for 80 hours (let alone 300) in the hope it'll get better.
If I don't enjoy playing a game, I turn it off and play something else instead.
So yeah, if a game can keep me busy 800 hours it must be doing a lot of things right. At least a lot more than it does wrong.

With that said, even if you spend 800 hours in this game, it doesnt mean that the money is well spend, as this game is objectively still horrible. You just needed 800 hours to complete everything and have an opinion about it.

If you get 800 hours of entertainment out of a $60 purchase, how is that not money well spent??
And if you don't get 800 hours of entertainment out of it, why spend so much time with it instead of playing something you actually enjoy?
And no, you don't need to complete every little side activity and check out every sqm of the game world to form a valid opinion about a game.

If I find the random NCPD encounters boring/annoying, I'll avoid them.
If the side quests and gigs bore me to death, I'll stop doing them.
If the general gameplay loop doesn't entertain me enough, I'll concentrate on the main quest instead.
And if the main quest/story isn't interesting enough, I'll drop the game and play something else.

Now, I'm not saying you're not allowed to criticize a game because you spent a lot of time with it, of course you are.
But stating that a game is "objectively bad" after it kept you occupied for hundreds of hours sounds implausible to say the least.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

​

ooodrin: "Even so, how on earth does 5.2/10 prove that far more people dislike than like the game?
Funny, but 2.5% is still higher than percentage of people who refunded the game. So, is there any shred of evidence to support the claim that "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers"? Haven't seen any."

I was just pointing the error in your argument.
It does not prove more people like the game either.
You can rate a game a 5 but still be displeased seriously about it.
The score alone does not prove this also for it accounts only a small percentages from all people who bought the game.

5 means mediocre. Not the masterpiece and wonder some are saying it is.

Refund argument is flawed too for i and my brother for example did not refund but we are very displeased with the game.

it depends what the 5.2/10 means.

If thats a rating of how good something is from 1-10 thats bad

if its a rating of how many people liked it out of 10, then it literally means 52% of people asked had a positive feeling about the product.

steam reviews, rotten tomatoes, google etc are a % of likes vs dislikes.

all metrics I have seen of like versus dislike has the game clearly as a majority liked.

 

[motox73]

76% rating on steam, 85% critics review, 7.1 user review on metacritic, 13.7 million copies sold vs 180.000-215.00 refunds. Yup, nothing says "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers" better than these numbers.

Reviews nowadays mean close to nothing, even the walls know they can ben influenced on both "user" and "critic" scores. As of refunds, not everyone refunds, I played the game to the end, just found it mediocre, I won't refund, after all, I finished the meal. To think everything is ok is just like having ham in front of your eyelids. Smells good , but you just don't get the picture.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Reviews nowadays mean close to nothing, even the walls know they can ben influenced on both "user" and "critic" scores. As of refunds, not everyone refunds, I played the game to the end, just found it mediocre, I won't refund, after all, I finished the meal. To think everything is ok is just like having ham in front of your eyelids. Smells good , but you just don't get the picture.

So, are we going to see some evidence for "far more unhappy customers than happy/loving it customers" or not? Because that was in the post I replied to. All I've heard is how positive user ratings doesn't mean that vast majority of people are not dissatisfied with the game. Neither does sales vs refunds ratio. So what does?

 

[FkzAz]

it depends what the 5.2/10 means.

If thats a rating of how good something is from 1-10 thats bad

if its a rating of how many people liked it out of 10, then it literally means 52% of people asked had a positive feeling about the product.

steam reviews, rotten tomatoes, google etc are a % of likes vs dislikes.

all metrics I have seen of like versus dislike has the game clearly as a majority liked.

Really? Is this really how you saw the general opinion of the public ? That the majority liked ?

...

I am not trying to say people shouldn't like this or that, because it's allways subjective to taste. You like what you like, period.

But the general imprension of the game is abysmal more disfavorable when compared to being favorable.

And I hope that the people at CDPR noticed this also, as it is the first step in trying to improve things. Recognizing your flaws.

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

I guess we'll see once CDPR have to report the latest sales to their investors.

I can only speak for myself and my friends and acquaintances who played the game and none of them were completely satisfied with CP2077, though to varying degrees. None of us would bother to leave a review on a website like Metacritic that is notorious for its easy to manipulate user scores, though. Why bother?

 

[wyzman001]

fallout Skyrim and witcher3 all have dev tool mod kits. Also, I don't think they expected it was an infinite play game, at least without narrative dlcs. Keep in mind also they were developing an online cyberpunk, which is probably more focused on evergreen gameplay.

Post automatically merged: May 12, 2021

You've just exhausted the content. As a single player narrative focused game, there would always be limitations on content. The only games where this is not the case are either emergent games, where the player creates the game, or live service games where they constantly create new content.

As far as a sense of achievement. You ve done a lot. You ve had the most productive 4 weeks of time (about how much time is represented in the game world) any one has ever had.

eh wish I could agree with you the character really doesn't achieve anything of note....looking back it's a grind to close out the story..that doesn't even conclude (maybe DLCs ) but as it stands I look back through V's eyes and I became deadly, nothing else..still dying soon and nothing else...
As the person holding the controller yeah a lot of hrs. but I feel like the donkey chasing the carrot on a string ...never got the carrot because there never was one.
Let me try this from a different POV ...
without fulfillment effort is a bitter pill and no victory for a hard fought battle is worse than empty

 

[Franc_Kaos]

I'm kind'a loving the game but there are so many annoyances (ai - driving / peds / police, weird clothing / armour decisions, lack of world interactivty etc). I didn't refund it cause I waited until 1.2 to start playing assuming most things would be fixed but so much hasn't been!

Last CDPR game I buy sight unseen.

 

[GogRelvas]

eh wish I could agree with you the character really doesn't achieve anything of note....looking back it's a grind to close out the story..that doesn't even conclude (maybe DLCs ) but as it stands I look back through V's eyes and I became deadly, nothing else..still dying soon and nothing else...
As the person holding the controller yeah a lot of hrs. but I feel like the donkey chasing the carrot on a string ...never got the carrot because there never was one.
Let me try this from a different POV ...
without fulfillment effort is a bitter pill and no victory for a hard fought battle is worse than empty

But that's the cyberpunk genre right there. In my opinion that's one aspect CDPR was able to transmit, to make us feel insignificant in this world. Not without criticizm, I wish they had tried to make us feel more significant to the people around us (love interests, post-sex); the merch group circle should recognize V more as the street cred raises and some missions are done (...) while at the same time making our actions to the grand scheem of things feel insignificant.
But I get what you're saying, the game gives an urge to explore but constantly puts us in our place as insignificant, because what we can do are missions (side, assaults,...)
This is why, for me, the open world aspect is flawed. Just as NC citizens are brain dancing their lifes away so should we be able to do more trivial things - dates and one night stands, customizations, drink/eating animations, minigames/BDs... it would enpower this feeling that all we can control are trivial things. And give us a breather to go out and try again

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

eh wish I could agree with you the character really doesn't achieve anything of note....looking back it's a grind to close out the story..that doesn't even conclude (maybe DLCs ) but as it stands I look back through V's eyes and I became deadly, nothing else..still dying soon and nothing else...
As the person holding the controller yeah a lot of hrs. but I feel like the donkey chasing the carrot on a string ...never got the carrot because there never was one.
Let me try this from a different POV ...
without fulfillment effort is a bitter pill and no victory for a hard fought battle is worse than empty

in 4 weeks V:

goes from barely known merc, to someone who can take on a corporation, in terms of cyberpunk world thats huge. Thats equivalent to you taking the crown jewels of England.

Shifts the balance of power between militech and arasaka shifts drastically, Thats the equivalent of changing the balance of power in the middle east

Determines the future of Immortality technology and who has access to it

Can choose to ressurect a world famous rocker. (ressurect Jon lenon or Tupac irl)

determines the rise or fall of the aldecados, and the VDBs

determines Judy's, Rogue, Hanako, Yorinobu's and Panam's whole live's course

frees/destroys 60 years of captured memories/souls from mikoshi.


thats a huge effect, especially in the cyberpunk universe, where things are supposed to be harder to change on a huge scale than our own world.


these are literally more achievements/effect than most do in an entire lifetime. Especially in cyberpunk.

 

[northwold]

eh wish I could agree with you the character really doesn't achieve anything of note....looking back it's a grind to close out the story..that doesn't even conclude (maybe DLCs ) but as it stands I look back through V's eyes and I became deadly, nothing else..still dying soon and nothing else...
As the person holding the controller yeah a lot of hrs. but I feel like the donkey chasing the carrot on a string ...never got the carrot because there never was one.
Let me try this from a different POV ...
without fulfillment effort is a bitter pill and no victory for a hard fought battle is worse than empty

So as far as I can tell from the myriad references and allusions dropped throughout the game world and the quests, the fundamental question Cyberpunk looks at is the importance of having a soul, what the soul actually is, and its transience (or, at least, the transience of the corporeal manifestation of the soul).

It is not meant to be permanent. It is a fleeting moment of conscious, corporeal existence in a much wider universe that is meant to be treasured. And V, in every ending except possibly the Arasaka ending, discovers this.

In some ways I'm surprised that any of the endings let V live at all.

Yes, it's not to everyone's tastes, but to run with a question of that type with such commitment is extremely ambitious for a computer game (cf Blade Runner as actually intended by its director).

(Edit: This is a game with tarot, meditation sequences, an entire A-story centred around the duplication of the soul, repeated questions about the nature of different states of consciousness. It has a plot about someone voluntarily getting crucified. I don't think "V lived happily ever after in a big house" would be very satisfactory in that context.)

 

[wyzman001]

all intangible...yeah that did that but other than a dialogue or a radio announcement no changes
I'm referring to in game changes or acquisition...none of the world of V or the people therein change in any way nor does V's value
properties...etc... your still the same poor bastard you started out as so other than the "player's" memories did it ever really happen?
not picking a fight ...I just don't think your seeing what I'm pointing at or we just disagree( that would be called life)