Whats with this Obessions Over the Police?

[reaper1]

3) games and programing has limitations, Time, money, processing power, accessibility also factor into decisions of what a company should do or prioritize.

True, and that is down to the company. They were the ones who set the expectations for what they said they were going to deliver, I don't see why the customer who has bought a "finished" product should have to factor that in when they find a company has sold them a product that was not up to the reasonable standards they should expect.

 

[GNTsquid]

But in general my issue is not so much with the Police AI itself, but the AI in general. And even if I initially played as a law abiding merc, the option to not play like one, when promoting a police system as they did, should be there.

They wanted to make an immersive game and it is in my ways, but all these things, like the bad police, Random NPCs not able to go around things and talking complete nonsense 99% of the time, instantly disappearing cars and people when you look away, all add to help ruin the experience.

I agree, the biggest complaint I have about the game aside form the amount of bugs still present is that the A.I. across the board needs major improvements.

Everyone loves to list all the things they wanted added or wish were added, and that's fair and some of these additions sound fun. The thing is none of them are going to be worth 2 cents if the A.I. pulling the strings is still lacking.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

True, and that is down to the company. They were the ones who set the expectations for what they said they were going to deliver, I don't see why the customer who has bought a "finished" product should have to factor that in when they find a company has sold them a product that was not up to the reasonable standards they should expect.

no, setting expectations is a two way street. They literally showed hours of gameplay, most of the things people expected, were never shown in game. They came out and said this game IS NOT like gta before the game released. They said a lot of the features that changed. Not everyone bought this game day one either. There were people playing the game day one on twitch, for them to see. And yet, many of the expectations people had did not line up with what they said, and showed people.

For me the game was one of the best games I played in recent years. A great game. so to me the argument that the game isn't up to standards is nonsensical, especially after the patches. Many of the games people compare it to do not move me.

I'm not saying your view is wrong, but stop expecting that everyone see things the way you do, or presenting your personal take as the only reasonable/logical understanding.

 

[reaper1]

I'm not saying your view is wrong, but stop expecting that everyone see things the way you do, or presenting your personal take as the only reasonable/logical understanding.

I would say the same to you. I would also say that my expectations were perfectly reasonable given what CDPR said about the game.

 

[maniak6767]

1. star wanted system is not logical at all, and should be not present in game, it's not GTA
2. police should react differently for different things, there's no difference between killing two civilians or four, max tac should be always answer
drones for car accident, SWAT team for fighting police etc.
3. police system should be lore friendly as much as it can, it's not really right now, because police should be force only in City Centre and Westbrook, and maybe few other places.
4. what NCPD is should be explained better, it's first game in IP and you have to wander around to gather info, there's a lot of it, but still you need dozens of hours to have full picture.
5. current system is breaking lore and immersion at same time, because NCPD is too powerfull,
6. killing civilians should be punished greatly by losing street creed, ncpd jobs etc. not only spawning swarms of police
7. at the end of the day, it's far from most important part of game, because it's very OOC to fight police or kill civilians

 

[PepeSmug]

If V isn't supposed to commit crimes, then why is there a police system in the game?

 

[Guest 3847602]

If V isn't supposed to commit crimes, then why is there a police system in the game?

For the same reason it's there in Deus Ex games or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines: to deter players from murdering civilians, not for emergent gameplay or entertainment.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

If V isn't supposed to commit crimes, then why is there a police system in the game?

if megaman isnt supposed to jump off cliffs, why is their cliffs in the game? If people aren't supposed to kill civilians, why is there a mechanic that punishes you for killing civilians?

if people are supposed avoid getting hit, why is their HP in the game?

 

[GethroShepard]

To grill3 :

I never said I liked to kill everyone in sight. I just said that the only interaction you can have with the NPC in this game is by killing them. Too bad for this vast city but in this game the one and only way to progress is with a weapon in hand. I seriously hoped for something else, like the branching discussions in the fallout games where a high level of charsma can be a big deal or other open world giving lot of repeatable side events to give the illusion of life. But this game is hollow in that sense : go to that place, kill everyone and enjoy the loot. Rinse and repeat.

To Ayinde Palmer :

I hate this system because he is totally on/off. You cannot talk your way out, giving money or going to jail : you walk too close, you must die! I must support the pedestrians AI who isn't afraid of a shootout next to them but run away when I jump : They sometimes litterraly jump between me and the gangers in the middle of a shootout!!!
And, at that time, police officers warp themselves around me to kill me and totally ignore the gangers and the mountain of innocent citizens the guys killed before my missions. Hell, they even walk on the corpses of the guys killed for their augment to shoot me who is trying to free their next victim !?

To deathlyhearts :

Just a single run in Skyrim and you can tell the difference. In this old game, without the mods and the DLC, you can have up to 45 different reactions from the NPC depending on your acts, your clothes, your past. In CP2077, you can have 50 streetcred, killed thousands of gangers, saved hundreds of innocent civilians and helped dozens of police officers, a NCPD cop will still put you a bullet in the head if you walk too close to him.

To resume :

In the beginning of the game with streetkid V, we see a police arrest where we can release our weapon. We see a police blokade where we can speak our way out. But, this two scenes are big fat lies : You can not talk or surrender! They see you, they kill you. Mixed message and totally absent graduation of the crime : For injuries (especially involontary ones), you are treated like a mass killer. Because of a stray bullet wounding the knee of a guy hundreds of meters away, I must leave the place of the quest because dozens of police officers will come here to stop me and protect the scavengers while they kill innocent people...

I hate the police in this game. Period.

 

[greeks]

The police system should be improved, not removed.

 

[Simpson3000]

Maybe i'm weird, but I've never had the police chase or attack me in this game except for one mission that kinda forced me to.

How many of you out there are playing your V like a mad lunatic attacking everything in site to where the police are coming after you all the time? I mostly play as a law abiding citizen unless a mission requires me to do otherwise, but I didn't even know Police spawns were a problem until it was mentioned in the patch notes because I'm never in trouble with them. I'm kinda surprised their behavior and AI is seen as such a huge issue for so many, it make sense and police chases are fun but its not how i've ever played the game.

You dont have to be a gunblazing manian to gain police attention. Its enough if you accidently kill citizen to often. Like if there is a area in gang territory with civilians inbetween. You shoot one gang member and its fine.. most civilians crouch down with hands up or the like. Still i often manged to accidently hit citizen with a shot i was sure it would hit the gang member i aimed for and.. police came in.

Note to CDPR : I want an asskick ability to scare civilans away so that they run away from the place not just kneel in place awaiting their very personal case of collateral damage.

 

[Mobster100]

6. killing civilians should be punished greatly by losing street creed, ncpd jobs etc. not only spawning swarms of police

The police system should be improved, not removed.

To me it sort of give the impression that you have had several different teams working with their own idea of how the game should incorporate a police system.

From the perspective of the story driven part of the game (adventure), the police as such plays little to no role at all, and the game would have functioned well enough with the story and all without the player being able to commit crimes, as far as I know, the police is not really, if at all, involved in the main story or in the side missions for that matter at all.

Then you had another team, working on the city and action part of the game, which wanted the player to have the freedom to gun down everyone in sight if they pleased (besides children obviously) and having camps of enemies to fight, police chases etc. But the police ain't doing anything, unless it is a scripted event.

Last you had a team that focused on the RPG version, where things the player does are linked to stats, and doing things like shooting random people should have consequences for the game, which it obviously don't, except that the police show up and kill you.

Adding it all together, it seems like you have a police system, based on 3 different design ideas, which isn't integrated in the different genres of game at all.

Killing civilians could and probably should affect the street cred, if this system is suppose to represent how good or attractive of a merc V is, then having them run around doing mass murderings is probably not good. But adding such system, could also quickly make the whole police system obsolete or a non option, given that you would constantly be stuck without people wanting to hire you.

Maybe the best option, would have been to have integrated the police more in the story and side missions, not as the good guys, but more as wolves in sheep clothes, sort of like the best you can get in a world of gangs and corruption, but a clearly an institute using their position as an excuse for running their corrupt business. Maybe have made it so there is a conflict within the police department itself, some actually trying to do good, while others clearly ain't, could have been integrated in a large political conflict as well, which would cast a shadow over Night city.

 

[Ant1975uk]

What happened to corrupt police? I mean I don't engage with them frequently, but I would still like a good system where theres consequences, but rather than just spawns, there could be wanted systems, police chases, warrants etc.

Id like to see Police cruising about doing stop and searches, asking for bribes etc. Its a crime city!

 

[Deathlyhearts]

To deathlyhearts :

Just a single run in Skyrim and you can tell the difference. In this old game, without the mods and the DLC, you can have up to 45 different reactions from the NPC depending on your acts, your clothes, your past. In CP2077, you can have 50 streetcred, killed thousands of gangers, saved hundreds of innocent civilians and helped dozens of police officers, a NCPD cop will still put you a bullet in the head if you walk too close to him.

Oh please.. the AI in Skyrim has been a meme since the release of the game. Yes NPC have some unique reactions, which I will give credit where credit is due of course, but 45? That's quite the exaggarated number, no? I admit I haven't played Skyrim in ages, but if there was so much interactivity and unique dialogue from the NPC's it would've definitely stuck with me. On the top of my head the unique NPC reactions are limited to the weather, the player's clothing (only if you are nude), potential attemps at theft, if you bump into them and attack of dragons. Rest of the time they just repeat the same line over and over again - without any active interactions on the players part too, which makes it highly annoying imo.
I am not saying the reaction from NPC is not there, because it is and it's well done, but it surely wasn't to that extend.

When comparing games we should compare fairly. Skyrim and Cyberpunk focuses on two very different things. Cyberpunk focuses on narrative delivered through deep and engaging story where you meet and interact with a wide variety of in depth developed cast of characters through the main story and side missions. The game use the same model Witcher 3 did. The world in the Witcher 3 had also zero interaction and player presence outside of quests.

Skyrim on the other hand have a very short and honestly forgetable story and cast of characters, which often fails completely on the side line, because you are swarmed with things to do in the Open world. This is where Skyrim focuses on - exploration and adventure in the (admitedly) huge open world, which was impressive for its time.

So in order for the Open world to feel immersive they focused on giving the world and it's NPCs more interactivy outside of quests. This however is not such important requirement in Cyberpunk, because the focus in entirely in the narrative direction, so Open world interactivity falls flat, just the way the story and characters in Skyrim falls flat. It's acceptable trade for me personally imo and necessary one too, because in the end there is budget and time limits and devs need to focus on what's important for the type of game they want to make. Would've been great to have more Open world interaction and our presence to be felt more heavily outside of quests? Sure! But I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the more important aspects of the game for it tbh.

 

[GethroShepard]

Oh please.. the AI in Skyrim has been a meme since the release of the game. Yes NPC have some unique reactions, which I will give credit where credit is due of course, but 45? That's quite the exaggarated number, no? I admit I haven't played Skyrim in ages, but if there was so much interactivity and unique dialogue from the NPC's it would've definitely stuck with me. On the top of my head the unique NPC reactions are limited to the weather, the player's clothing (only if you are nude), potential attemps at theft, if you bump into them and attack of dragons. Rest of the time they just repeat the same line over and over again - without any active interactions on the players part too, which makes it highly annoying imo.
I am not saying the reaction from NPC is not there, because it is and it's well done, but it surely wasn't to that extend.

When comparing games we should compare fairly. Skyrim and Cyberpunk focuses on two very different things. Cyberpunk focuses on narrative delivered through deep and engaging story where you meet and interact with a wide variety of in depth developed cast of characters through the main story and side missions. The game use the same model Witcher 3 did. The world in the Witcher 3 had also zero interaction and player presence outside of quests.

Skyrim on the other hand have a very short and honestly forgetable story and cast of characters, which often fails completely on the side line, because you are swarmed with things to do in the Open world. This is where Skyrim focuses on - exploration and adventure in the (admitedly) huge open world, which was impressive for its time.

So in order for the Open world to feel immersive they focused on giving the world and it's NPCs more interactivy outside of quests. This however is not such important requirement in Cyberpunk, because the focus in entirely in the narrative direction, so Open world interactivity falls flat, just the way the story and characters in Skyrim falls flat. It's acceptable trade for me personally imo and necessary one too, because in the end there is budget and time limits and devs need to focus on what's important for the type of game they want to make. Would've been great to have more Open world interaction and our presence to be felt more heavily outside of quests? Sure! But I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the more important aspects of the game for it tbh.

Well, let me answer you.

Reactions of NPC :

1. When you pick up something valuable, they come to ask you what is it.
2. You steal something outside a house and they get intrigued.
3. They see you stealing something and send killers on your tracks.
4. When you sell Dwemers objects, you may have an interaction with a scientist.
5. If you attack someone, someone of the same family can come asking some money to forget the crime.
6. Il you attack someone, an NPC may contact you to ask you to beat the crap of somebody.
7. Even after the jailtime, your NPC victim may scorn you.
8. A kid can ask you to launch on him an invisibility spell if you use magic openly in town.
9. If you have an glowing armor or dangerous magic cast, people avoid you.
10. If you use magic in a deserted corner of a town, a guard may come to ask you to stop that.
11. If you use dragonic magic in the middle of a town, somebody may give you the location of a donjon linked to that.
12. You may have a letter from an NPC.
13. Running naked? People ask you to put something on.
14. If you draw your weapon, NPC ask you to put that down.
15. A magician may ask you in duel randomly.
16. Children ask you to play with them.
17. A magician apprentice may come to ask for help with a certain magic.
18. A NPC you helped previously may give you a gift.
19. Reaction when a dragon is spotted : run away!
20. Merchants and friends may come in your new house to greet you.
21. NPC may dislike your magician look.
22. NPC find that you are ill-looking when you contract a disease.
23. Having a highly glowing magic on you impress people around you.
24. Same as above but with a offensive spell and people run away.
25.When you are crouched, NPC tend to find you ridiculous.
...

And there are a lot more!
So yeah, NPC really react to your actions in Skyrim. While the NPC doesn't care at all if you run nacked with an anti-tank gun in your hands in CP2077.

And about the genious of CP2077 against the other games... Please... I play a lot of Visual Novel so the character building in this game is nothing to be so impressed. It is good but nothing "next generation". "The next generation of open world" is an empty world with quests on some spots and no interaction at all with the world outside of that. Turning the game as Semi open world like Dishonored may be the best for such a story model. And this game, like the others, toss away each and every NPC once they aren't useful for the main story. Just look at the LI or Evelyne Parker...

To go back to the OP, lot of people talk about the Police over reaction is simply because the only thing you can do outside the place where quests lies is pulling a trigger. After all climbing on the roofs make you falling through invisible pitfall, crush invisible wall...

 

[Deathlyhearts]

And about the genious of CP2077 against the other games... Please...

I don't care for the word Next gen, neither do I care if this game falls in that definition to people or not. Also I wasn't comparing it to the many Visual Novel you played I was comparing it to Skyrim, because you bought the comparison to begin with. Skyrim falls flat where deep engaging story narrative and character building is considered, because it's not the main focus of the game. Whereas Cyberpunk falls flat in Open world interactivity because that's not the main focus of this game. That was literally my whole point, which you seem to keep missing so I am going to stop this discussion here, as it is rather pointless and a waste of time. Good day/night to you.

 

[acakomandos]

After last update police units in my game are not spawning anywhere lol. Maybe after I commit mass murder they might show up, but not always

 

[GethroShepard]

I don't care for the word Next gen, neither do I care if this game falls in that definition to people or not. Also I wasn't comparing it to the many Visual Novel you played I was comparing it to Skyrim, because you bought the comparison to begin with. Skyrim falls flat where deep engaging story narrative and character building is considered, because it's not the main focus of the game. Whereas Cyberpunk falls flat in Open world interactivity because that's not the main focus of this game. That was literally my whole point, which you seem to keep missing so I am going to stop this discussion here, as it is rather pointless and a waste of time. Good day/night to you.

Sorry about that.

I'm a bit bitter after seeing the final game. So much bugs, glitches and practical issues... I can't be stealthy because all the ennemies know where I am at the second I make a silent takedown, I can't hack cameras because my character become glued to the ground once I release the control, dozens of broken perks...

I am with you with Skyrim. It is better named "The elder scrolls, Nordic simulator". But if CDPR wanted to fight against all the other story-driven games, they failed at it by creating this beautiful but empty city that has taken so much ressources from them.

I don't want to argue anymore too and don't want to make you pay for all the bitterness I have swallowed after my broken and funless run in CP2077.

Have hope, guy!

 

[Deathlyhearts]

Sorry about that.

I'm a bit bitter after seeing the final game. So much bugs, glitches and practical issues... I can't be stealthy because all the ennemies know where I am at the second I make a silent takedown, I can't hack cameras because my character become glued to the ground once I release the control, dozens of broken perks...

I am with you with Skyrim. It is better named "The elder scrolls, Nordic simulator". But if CDPR wanted to fight against all the other story-driven games, they failed at it by creating this beautiful but empty city that has taken so much ressources from them.

I don't want to argue anymore too and don't want to make you pay for all the bitterness I have swallowed after my broken and funless run in CP2077.

Have hope, guy!

Sorry to hear your experience with the game has been negative. I can absolutely relate to that given the fact how many games have disappointed me over the years as well.

Have hope! The game is still worked upon and you may end up enjoying it in the end once all the bugs have been dealt with and all the DLC's and expansions are out.

 

[PepeSmug]

For the same reason it's there in Deus Ex games or Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines: to deter players from murdering civilians, not for emergent gameplay or entertainment.

But you don't need a whole police system to do this. Just go straight to a "game over" screen if the player decides to do too much "crime."

If the police system doesn't actually stop the player in their tracks, it isn't a deterrent. And if it does, then it is just an over-complicated game-over sequence.

if megaman isnt supposed to jump off cliffs, why is their cliffs in the game? If people aren't supposed to kill civilians, why is there a mechanic that punishes you for killing civilians?

if people are supposed avoid getting hit, why is their HP in the game?

Don't be disingenuous.

If the player isn't supposed to kill civilians, then it simply shouldn't be possible to kill civilians. Pretty simple.