6 month game retrospective...lets talk

[VincentS4]

That is not the point! This was my answer to the suggestion that DEVs are maybe not telling the truth.
About replayability, I finished the game with 4 characters, currently, I have my 5th character on PC and 1 on ps4, and I'm not the only one replaying the game, so it is certainly replayable for some people. And I have replayed only a few games for my relatively long gaming history.
I started the Witcher 3 just a few weeks ago, but people who had the game from the start obviously had to wait for DLC, expansions and etc. So I suppose that the current version of CP is not the final one.

Of course this game is still incomplete, it's still in Beta.

The difference between the two games is that the TW3 DLCs are expansions that add content to the game, but even without it, the base version of TW3 remains a full game that works well even without any additional content.

In CP77 the DLCs are necessary to complete a game that otherwise, right now, remains a hastily packaged incomplete product that has nothing to offer in the variety of content and replayability of what's inside.

Six months have almost passed, and there will still be several patches to come out before we can make this game "complete", let alone talk about DLCs.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Of course this game is still incomplete, it's still in Beta.

The difference between the two games is that the TW3 DLCs are expansions that add content to the game, but even without it, the base version of TW3 remains a full game that works well even without any additional content.

In CP77 the DLCs are necessary to complete a game that otherwise, right now, remains a hastily packaged incomplete product that has nothing to offer in the variety of content and replayability of what's inside.

Six months have almost passed, and there will still be several patches to come out before we can make this game "complete", let alone talk about DLCs.

I played like 5 or 6 characters, thats as replayable as I'd expect a videogame to be. I wouldn't expect a magical dlc to transform the game. The meat of the game and what it offers is set. They could have new adventures, refine things, but if you dislike the game structure, or over all design, I doubt that will change 6 months or 6 years from now.

I played witcher 1, I lost interest pretty fast. not all games work for all people.

 

[VincentS4]

I played like 5 or 6 characters, thats as replayable as I'd expect a videogame to be. I wouldn't expect a magical dlc to transform the game. The meat of the game and what it offers is set. They could have new adventures, refine things, but if you dislike the game structure, or over all design, I doubt that will change 6 months or 6 years from now.

I played witcher 1, I lost interest pretty fast. not all games work for all people.

Replaying the same game with the exact same content over and over again is not synonymous with replayability.

 

[maniak6767]

Do not bring my favourite movie of all time, Mad Max: Fury Road, as part of your argumentation. [...]
The way the director made it is pure perfection and Cyberpunk would have to deliver on literally everything that was said and expected of it, just to be able to compete with this movie.
Post automatically merged: Today at 2:13 PM
There is not a single frame wasted, a line of dialogue chosen incorrectly. A masterpiece.

There is montage mistake during final last chase, pretty big one and Max is OOC when he's very emotional and talktive when they chase Furiosa (he is chained to front of car, but that's not explanation) ... lets say it's flawed masterpiece.

Cyberpunk 2077 stays pretty close to Mad Max: Fury Road, because both pieces storywise reference to Homer's "Odyssey" ,like pretty hard...
In Mad Max Fury Road, Max as character is post-apo Odysseus wandering sea of sand:
- escapes Ciclops Cave (Citadel, scene with him looking like sheep shearing),
- Lotus Eaters trope (weak warboys sleeping while draining blood from captives),
- Scylla and Charybdis (most obvious one visually and storywise - canyon chase scene),
- Sirens - Many Mothers and their trap, plus their feathers...
- leaving Calypso - Max and Furios become "lovers" when they share blood,
- significant visual details like trident (Poseidons symbol) mask put on Max ,
- Furiosa being vessel for characters like Paris (kidnapping wives), Clytemnestra (killing warlord husband), Calypso (being lover of Max, figuratively)
- movie with frames looking close to pieces of art about Odyssey like for example:

- oh yeah and there was something else about trident...


Cyberpunk 2077 is very hmmm close to Homer's Odyssey -more chronogically than MM... talking about main storyline with examples like:
- Lotus Eaters = Lizzies Bar
- Cyclops Cave - most obvious one, tone of quest, visuals, pretty close to cave, cyclops (Royce...lol) asthetics, you're unwelcomed guests and asking Royce to honor some rules - everything just like in Oddysey's story
- Sirens = Hanako singing, playing everytime you see her...
- Scylla and Charybdis: Voodo Boys storyline in Pacyfica, Brigitte is playing role of Scylla (with 6 netrunners) and Charybdis = Alt
- final act of story is desperate V asking Panam/Rogue/Hanako (two of them are kinda princess from foreign land, almost literally) for help, just like desperate Odys asks Nauzykaa (princess from foreign land)
- Arasaka's logo is trident...

Both,Max and V, are secretive about their names just like Odys.

Ofc maybe I missed something, but you get my point.

So yeah Cyberpunk 2077 storywise is pretty close to Mad Max as you can see. V and Max are similar characters with similar goals, desperate to survive, looking for redemption.
So I think you can place them (game and movie) in one sentence.

 

[greeks]

Nop, sorry, I can't speak about Mad Max: Fury Road. I can't give the movie justice just by writing a couple key notes. I've been sitting over this post for 50 minutes now, deleting everything I've said over and over again. I guess that's how CD Projekt felt like when they were trying to give Cyberpunk justice.

 

[maniak6767]

Nop, sorry, I can't speak about Mad Max: Fury Road. I can't give the movie justice just by writing a couple key notes. I've been sitting over this post for 50 minutes now, deleting everything I've said over and over again. I guess that's how CD Projekt felt like when they were trying to give Cyberpunk justice.

It was best movie of 2015 and that's it, some thing could be done a little bit better.

Omens of Max felt a little bit forced (and storywise linked to videogame, I think and imo that mistake), because director wanted to make another link to Odyssey.
Same could be said about Cyberpunk, because quest about finding tarot cards (they are omens-like) is also a little bit weird and forced, at least in my opinion.

Not everything will translate well from literature to movies or games. Also Max is misunderstood hero just like V , because some people think he is not main protagonist (but Furiosa is,lol, because she can shoot and drive), just like with V (Silverhand).
So many comparisions...

But back to topic, talking about cut content is irrelevant for me, because game is too long to even bring it up and there's no plotholes in story, quest because something was removed, or not finished for release.
IMo,they should focus on buggy traffic system, pedestrian system and making police system reasonable, not finishing content which was not good enough to be part of game.

And in Witcher 3 actually cut content was noticeable, for some reason, at some point Radovid's people patrol streets of Novigrad, Radovid takin over city just like that and Dijkstra is mad, because of that. Still it was optional quest, nothing to brag about, but felt off compared to other quests, because some parts of story were cut.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Replaying the same game with the exact same content over and over again is not synonymous with replayability.

virtually no single player game is infinitely replayable.

But, I did different things in each playthrough, had different character concepts, who interacted with the world differently. Having a different build, doing different side content, having different relationships, origins, endings, with different char paradigms was enough for 5-6 replays for many many hours. Id say thats about as much as you can hope for in a narrative based game.

Now, it may be garbage for you, thats fine. Just saying some dlcs and updates aren't going to change your opinion if you dislike the game design concept they went with. Might as well move on.

 

[Zefninja]

virtually no single player game is infinitely replayable.

But, I did different things in each playthrough, had different character concepts, who interacted with the world differently. Having a different build, doing different side content, having different relationships, origins, endings, with different char paradigms was enough for 5-6 replays for many many hours. Id say thats about as much as you can hope for in a narrative based game.

Now, it may be garbage for you, thats fine. Just saying some dlcs and updates aren't going to change your opinion if you dislike the game design concept they went with. Might as well move on.

This was how I got to 400 hrs too.

Agree with your sentiments regarding the negativity. There is a fine line... There are so many threads dedicated to the bugs that at this point CDPR knows what their fanbase is thinking. 1.22 did alot to fix many issues I previously experienced.

Gamers are quick to forget once the marketing for the next big ip starts it all over again.

 

[greeks]

And here's where you're wrong. I remember them all. How EA Gamest tried to fine people for playing multiplayer games from second hand market. How Ubisoft tried introducing a licence that you have to re-new every couple years if you want to keep playing a game. How Need for Speed series got ran down to death. How EA effectively killed Dead Space series by introducing micro-transactions and unnecessary co-op to the third game. How Gearbox Software ruined Colonial Marines by basically frauding money from Fox in order to finish their Borderlands. How Ubisoft released a game with a bug and tried to call it a "feature". How they released the trailer to Watch Dogs 1 and it looked nothing like the finished game, just like Cyberpunk.

I remember it all, all the way back to 2001. And I will not forget what CD Projekt did in December.

 

[tonyj13b]

To me the game is just not fun or rewarding at all. It is a boring repetitive game. Patches will not fix that. I wish it didn't but the game simply sucks.

 

[Metalomaniac16]

I was one of the CP2077 haters. Not anymore. I don't hate the game now and although i don't think the game is perfect yet, with mods is absolutely playable and enjoyable. I still don't think it's a masterpiece though but as i said, it's perfectly enjoyable, specially with gameplay mods.

 

[greeks]

I am by no means a hater myself. I love the setting and I want the game to be successful. But I will never defend it as it was released in this state with full knowledge of its shortcomings. I will definitely not support the company that is trying to brush their intentional failure under the rug.

 

[AikoHayashi]

No company wants to fail unless aiming to go bankrupt and I don't think that this is the case, so using expressions like
intentional failure is quite weird.

 

[KunoichiRider]

I was one of the CP2077 haters. Not anymore. I don't hate the game now and although i don't think the game is perfect yet, with mods is absolutely playable and enjoyable. I still don't think it's a masterpiece though but as i said, it's perfectly enjoyable, specially with gameplay mods.

Just because you can see and address the failings of a product or a piece of art, you are no hater.
Just because you make your criticism heard, you are no hater.

Frankly, visit an opera which is not to the liking of the audience, which is supposedly on the top end of civilisation and sophistication. As someone who prefers symphonies and its culture I am always astonished how ferocious opera audiences are.
The flak CDPR gets for its failed staging of cyberpunk is on the lower level of failed opera stagings compared to the booing at the end and the following critical reviews in newspapers.

Personally, six months after release I want the following questions answered by CDPR:

What is the reasoning and artistic vision in not providing a key for walking for PC users?
What is the reasoning and artistic vision in not providing a minimap with zoomfactor as a function of velocity?
What is the reasoning and artistic vision in implementing AI, which quality is outdone by games more than approximately 15 years older?
What is the reasoning and artistic vision in implementing very crude physics?
What is the reasoning and artistic vision behind using these "special" gameplay mechanics, which are against quality of life and against description?
Why do you think an Potemkin village type open world is beneficial for immersion?

 

[sL3nd3rmAnn]

No company wants to fail unless aiming to go bankrupt and I don't think that this is the case, so using expressions like
intentional failure is quite weird.

But most likely they want to sell u a thing for which was done the least amount of work .
In reality companies would sell u garbage if they can.
In this case CDPR thought this garbage would not bat the eyes the way it did.
It backfired. You play with fire you risk to get burned.

 

[AikoHayashi]

But most likely they want to sell u a thing for which was done the least amount of work .
In reality companies would sell u garbage if they can.
In this case CDPR thought this garbage would not bat the eyes the way it did.
It backfired. You play with fire you risk to get burned.

If you say so.

 

[northwold]

But most likely they want to sell u a thing for which was done the least amount of work .
In reality companies would sell u garbage if they can.
In this case CDPR thought this garbage would not bat the eyes the way it did.
It backfired. You play with fire you risk to get burned.

All other points aside, take one look at the city design and say with a straight face that they didn't do any work.

Clearly, the game has not turned out the way some people wanted.

Clearly, it was not released in the state it should have been.

But they didn't just cobble together something in ten minutes and then throw it in shops. That's a ridiculous assertion.

 

[sL3nd3rmAnn]

All other points aside, take one look at the city design and say with a straight face that they didn't do any work.

Clearly, the game has not turned out the way some people wanted.

Clearly, it was not released in the state it should have been.

But they didn't just cobble together something in ten minutes and then throw it in shops. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Don't straw-man. I did not said they did not do any work.
Just that they wanted to do the least amount of work to get away with it to make more profit. It did not go as planned for you simple cannot sell garbage i am afraid.
They could have delayed and delivered the game finished and polished as promised.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Don't straw-man. I did not said they did not do any work.
Just that they wanted to do the least amount of work to get away with it to make more profit. It did not go as planned for you simple cannot sell garbage i am afraid.
They could have delayed and delivered the game finished and polished as promised.

At this point I believe you're also just in it to be spiteful.
"Don't straw-man. I did not said they did not do any work. Just that they wanted to do the least amount of work" How are you even saying this with a 'straight face'
Sorry mate, but there is a point where its also enough. We know they fucked up. Now let them do their job and stop flashing the "they're trash" sign, it gets old, and I will remind you... AGAIN, they haven't just pulled the plug like other companies have had a habit with. Just accept that fixing the game will take a good amount of time. Yelling at them every day isn't gonna speed up the process,

Also, to stay with the spirit of this topic: you, and others do not like the game for what it is, in this moment. good cleared that up. But there is also still people who DO like it for what it is.
We can agree to look forward to see how they can improve the game (and for some what they hope it to be)
But not everyone is looking for the same aspects in this game to have a good time, neither does everyone have the same amount/type of issues that pull them out of the game. That is a fact by now.

"They could have delayed and delivered the game finished and polished as promised."
Yes, you're correct, they could have. They already did it just wasn't enough and we do not know (I dont for one) exactly what reasons they had to release it still. there's 1001 speculations about it, but the true reason we don't have, and never will most likely.
Also, that should now be in the past. Lets look at the future.

 

[MrGuyton]

You've got to wonder how much the company's cash flow played a part. Maintaining a staff of 1000 for five years since the Witcher 3 launch can't be cheap. I can't imagine gog and Gwent bring in enough revenue to sustain that indefinitely. I could be wrong but I can't help wonder if the management could see the bottom of their coffers and got an itchy trigger finger on the launch.